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For those who might be interested in attending....

 

Cleveland On The Rise: Fun, Film, Food and the Law

 

https://www.law.csuohio.edu/alumnigiving/cle/cleontherise

 

I saw NEOMG was live blogging from this event, but allow me to give a quick recap of some notes I took.  It was a great event with lots of fanfare for the City, but not terribly informative for the UO crowd (considering it was an all day event).

 

FILM PANEL

- There have been 237 films shot in the State since 2007

- $300m in economic development in NEO alone since 2007

- HOWEVER, we have lost approx. $500m we could have earned due to a lack of infrastructure (sound stages, etc) - movies such as Captain America 3, Ant Man, and a few Pixel films would have been shot here if we had the proper infrastructure

- 80% of the film work in Ohio has been right here in NEO, mostly due to our ability to double as NYC and other mega cities

 

RECREATION PANEL

- There was a video presentation I hadn't seen before which was good, other than the musical backdrop to that poppy "Boom-Clack" song

- Metroparks now has 500+acres along the waterfront

- 2013 was the largest land acquisition year for the metroparks since 1961

- A good portion of the panel was spent discussing progress on the Red Line Greenway, which is coming together nicely - site tours are available

- The Red Line Greenway has what one panelist described as the highest elevated greenway in the USA

 

EVENTS PANEL

- Gay games brought 20K visitors and over $50m in economic input

- City is expecting Federal grants to cover the bulk of the cost for the RNC, as was done in Charlotte and Tampa this last cycle

- Cleveland was the unanimous choice for the RNC site selection committee (at least that is what our locals heard)

- RNC is planning lots of events in UC

- They showed the video which was presented to the site selection committee and it was pretty good

- RNC will have 15K credentialed media members (compared to 5K for a Super Bowl)

- RNC/DNC are the largest media events in the world outside of the Olympics

- $30m in infrastructure improvements will be made to allow all of the data to flow in and out of the City during the RNC

- During the RNC, 10x the amount of data will come out of the Q as compared to a Game 7 of the NBA finals

- The new convention center was the first project of its size to scrap paper blueprints and use IPads during construction

- The CC has held over 200 events since opening in 2013

- 72 trade shows/conventions have been booked since the announcement of the RNC

- There have been 200m 'media impressions' in the four months since the RNC was announced

- There was some mention of the need for a media center during the RNC and "Gateway East"(?) was thrown out there as a possibility

 

FRED NANCE

- He talked us through our lunch hour

- He said that Gateway started it all with the trend in downtown towards public money spurring private investment

- He showed a GCP video I don't think we have seen here

- He mentioned that he was interviewed for 2 hours by the NYT on Cavs opening night about "all things happening in Cleveland"..... he hasn't seen the article yet but predicted it is going to be a "really comprehensive piece"

 

ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT PANEL

- Coyne talked about what he called the 'proximity principle' and the key being getting young people to move downtown

- He compared Public Square + the Malls and their 24 acres to the 25 acre Millennium Park in Chicago (just really from a scope/size angle)

- More landscaping is coming of the Malls, although Mall C might remain more open due to the use for Ultimate Frisbee and other activities

- The location of the pedestrian bridge is 'fixed' but the design is not

- Coyne thinks Burke will remain an airport

- Coyne will 'occupy' the Jacobs owned lot on PS if something is not developed there once PS is done.... he has told the owners of his intention to do so

- The two people behind Hingetown (Graham and Marika) gave an entertaining presentation, showing the progress in the neighborhood, including 265 new units planned in the next 5 years and a 50% reduction in crime and foreclosures since they got started

 

FOOD PANEL

- Cimperman was on this panel, along with some of the local restaraunters (Symon's business guy, Hodgson, and the owner of Toast)

- By requiring the Farmer's Markets to accept food stamps, business has increased 250%

- There are now over 100 food trucks in the City

- When asked about the parking issues in the Market District, Cimperman said that while parking is important, neighborhoods with parking problems have both a low foreclosure rate and lower crime.

 

 

Not sure what that (in bold above) even means! But I'll join him!!

 

This is a SFW discussion forum.

Publicly calling them out may actually help a little bit

As I've said a hundred times, a lot of folks agree redoing PS is a waste unless those lots are developed.  That is why I think there is more intention to do so then the public is aware of. 

^One could only hope.  My hope is that it's not just local companies who would like to move into a tower on Public Square- that maybe larger companies outside of the region would like the address as well. 

 

I would prefer residential/hotel.  PS is too much of a Monday thru Friday 9-5 spot with office buildings that turn their back to the street.

Everything Jacobs Group has said publicly is that they've gone from considering an office-only tower to a mixed-use tower -- part of it office, part of it residential. And the last time one of my old newspaper sources told me anything about this site was that the Public Square re-do would motivate Jacobs Group to pursue developing this site more aggressively. Of course, "pursue" and "actually build something" are as different as "want" and "have."

^I wonder how much the lot will increase in value from a $30 million dollar investment in public space literally across the street?  I also wonder what point would the investments around the lot raise the value to the point where it wouldn't make sense to keep holding off on development. 

I'm not sure PS redo plays much into Jacobs decision.  I think the location, market demand and valuation play a much larger role than anything.  I also feel that Stark is trying to beat Jacobs to the race for marquee tenants.  I think Sark heard rumblings, and jumped all over it.  And with that, I'll stop analyzing the statement in bold.

I'm not sure PS redo plays much into Jacobs decision.  I think the location, market demand and valuation play a much larger role than anything.

 

But the PS redo will bump up lender appraisal figures, which will give Jacobs access to better financing and terms.

^^I think the point is that the PS redo will likely boost market-demand and valuation for that location. That was the explicit logic cited by the buyers of the Standard Building and 75 PS.

 

[sS beat me to it]

Yay Louisville! Boo Jacobs Group and its embarrassing parking lot on Public Square!

 

Louisville to get 30 story Omni Hotel, apartment tower & grocery http://t.co/EpimxWIYh5 http://t.co/UEC5gdYz0y

^More like boo Cleveland office market demand for the last 25 years.

 

Besides we already got our 30 story hotel.

 

And let's not forget the whole story on why that parcel is a parking lot.

^More like boo Cleveland office market demand for the last 25 years.

 

Besides we already got our 30 story hotel.

 

And let's not forget the whole story on why that parcel is a parking lot.

 

Right.  At least Cleveland and Louisville are building brand new convention center hotels (is Louisville's going to be next to the Yum?)  Cincinnati can't even get the owners to update their embarrassment of a hotel.

^More like boo Cleveland office market demand for the last 25 years.

 

Who said anything about offices? Stark can try to build a 30+ story mixed use tower but Jacobs can't? And comparable markets have more center-city hotel rooms than Cleveland. It's sad that a stick in the mud like the Jacobs Group owns this property. OK my every-other-month rant about this property has been satisfactorily completed. :)

^More like boo Cleveland office market demand for the last 25 years.

 

Who said anything about offices? Stark can try to build a 30+ story mixed use tower but Jacobs can't? And comparable markets have more center-city hotel rooms than Cleveland. It's sad that a stick in the mud like the Jacobs Group owns this property. OK my every-other-month rant about this property has been satisfactorily completed. :)

 

They tried to around 2007-2008. The market tanked and financing wasn't available.

 

It hasn't been until extremely recently where a project like that here might make financial sense.

 

 

 

They tried to around 2007-2008. The market tanked and financing wasn't available.

 

It hasn't been until extremely recently where a project like that here might make financial sense.

 

Yep, I remember that ancient history. But that's apparently not what Jacobs Group has been pondering, yet not acting on, lately.

So the person who made these comments back in June:

 

Douglas Miller, executive vice president of Westlake-based Jacobs Real Estate Services, said in an interview that the concern no longer thinks of the site strictly as an office development opportunity.

“We have entertained a mixed-use idea for our site. It probably does make some kind of sense for our site. I don't see it being 100% apartments or office use anymore,” Mr. Miller said. “It will take something of fairly significant mass to finish (commercial development around) Public Square, some kind of mixed use development like we've not seen in Cleveland: office, perhaps a hotel, and apartments.”

The project would still need an anchor use, Mr. Miller said, most likely a large office tenant. Such an anchor would be essential to landing financing for a project that might change the city's skyline. Although he acknowledged Jacobs Group is not actively pursuing such a project, he sees it as a complement to the redevelopment of Public Square and the city's downtown Mall — he is a member of the mayor's Group Plan Commission charged with re-evaluating the city's public spaces — and opens the door to development west of Public Square.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20131201/SUB1/312019996/building-may-be-next-big-development?template=printart 

 

Has been promoted to President and CEO of Jacobs Group.  Could be good news for PS.

 

Downtown Cleveland Improvement Corporation board member Doug Miller has been promoted from executive vice president of Westlake-based Richard E. Jacobs Group to president and CEO as of January 1, after the retirement of Jud Smith. As executive vice president of Jacobs Group, Miller was responsible for all aspects of office and mixed-use property development, leasing and management. Miller has been with the Jacobs Group since 1978 and serves on the board of the Group Plan Commission in addition to serving on the board of Downtown Cleveland Improvement Corp.

Fingers crossed that he makes a move.....

I wished my Uncle Jud a happy retirement through my Aunt on Facebook. I also asked for any sort of tid bits on what the new CEO plans to do with this property. I couldn't not ask right?!? Anyways, it's nice to see family members in the news and finally have a reason to post on here instead of lurking. We'll see what he says...

I have found it so odd that in this period of publicized "renaissance" in Cleveland which picked up in earnest about 2 years ago, we have heard nothing about this property.  I have often wonderred if Jacob's is letting the property sit there, increase in value, and wait for the highest bidder.  Just seems strange being that it is probably the most high profile, developable piece of prperty in the City...in my opinion. 

For all we know they've been working on securing a large tenant in order to develop the site.  It would be nice for this site to be developed already but it's their prerogative to do whatever the hell they want to with it.

I wished my Uncle Jud a happy retirement through my Aunt on Facebook. I also asked for any sort of tid bits on what the new CEO plans to do with this property. I couldn't not ask right?!? Anyways, it's nice to see family members in the news and finally have a reason to post on here instead of lurking. We'll see what he says...

 

Welcome, Sammy Voz.

 

For all we know they've been working on securing a large tenant in order to develop the site.  It would be nice for this site to be developed already but it's their prerogative to do whatever the hell they want to with it.

 

Within reason. And it's our prerogative to decide if we like that land use and to share that opinion. Yes, surface parking is a legally permissible use for this property with the zoning in place. But in my opinion, a surface parking lot on Public Square, downtown Cleveland, Ohio, isn't the highest and best use of this special property adjoining the region's most high-profile civic space. And if this is what a real estate company considers the highest and best use for its most visible and valuable property, then I think that reflects badly on said real estate company. So if you lack the capability to achieve the highest and best use for this property, then kindly sell it to someone who possesses that ability.

 

I believe that 25 years is long enough for Cleveland to have this embarrassment at its front door:

 

 

 

 

 

I believe that 25 years is long enough for Cleveland to have this embarrassment at its front door:

 

 

I was less than 2 years old when those buildings came down. It's sad that I don't have any idea of what a fully enclosed Public Square looks or feels like. I hope that changes soon.

 

I was less than 2 years old when those buildings came down. It's sad that I don't have any idea of what a fully enclosed Public Square looks or feels like. I hope that changes soon.

 

Imagine heading west down Cleveland's main street (aka Euclid Avenue) toward the geographic center of a metropolitan area (aka Public Square) and looking toward buildings straight ahead, that only grow larger the entire time. Then you enter the square with street-level activity in all buildings on all quadrants on the square. The buildings on the northwest corner had bank branches and restaurants on their ground floors, so they produced street-level activity, as did all other buildings on our central commons.

 

Then one day, you make that same trip and all you see is sky ahead of you on Euclid as you enter into Public Square. When you get into Public Square, you realize you can see across two blocks of surface parking lots to short buildings built in the 19th century -- the same kind you might see in downtown Wooster or Zanesvile or Van Wert. It's more than underwhelming. It's a feeling of emptiness and embarrassment.

 

And every time since that first day in 1989 when I saw that scene I feel EXACTLY the same way. I see lots of other great accomplishments here, but that scene entering Public Square erases whatever sense of pride I had.

For all we know they've been working on securing a large tenant in order to develop the site.  It would be nice for this site to be developed already but it's their prerogative to do whatever the hell they want to with it.

Fair enough, however, in order to court possible tenants, some type of rendering and site use would have to be prepared to sell the possible tenant on the development.  This would have to go through engineering on the private side, and city hall on the public side.  Just see how Bob Stark is selling nucleus, or how Wolstein sold the flats.  Remember back to 2007, Jacobs flashed the rendering of the office structure on PS then, recession.  Therefore, I don't think Jacobs is to serious right now, and what scares me is, there has never been a better time.  I'm hoping theyre pitching the property to other developers to buy.  However, I don't think we see that until the RNC is done.  I'm sure they're getting good money for the week or two on that lot.

 

I was less than 2 years old when those buildings came down. It's sad that I don't have any idea of what a fully enclosed Public Square looks or feels like. I hope that changes soon.

 

Imagine heading west down Cleveland's main street (aka Euclid Avenue) toward the geographic center of a metropolitan area (aka Public Square) and looking toward buildings straight ahead, that only grow larger the entire time. Then you enter the square with street-level activity in all buildings on all quadrants on the square. The buildings on the northwest corner had bank branches and restaurants on their ground floors, so they produced street-level activity, as did all other buildings on our central commons.

 

Then one day, you make that same trip and all you see is sky ahead of you on Euclid as you enter into Public Square. When you get into Public Square, you realize you can see across two blocks of surface parking lots to short buildings built in the 19th century -- the same kind you might see in downtown Wooster or Zanesvile or Van Wert. It's more than underwhelming. It's a feeling of emptiness and embarrassment.

 

And every time since that first day in 1989 when I saw that scene I feel EXACTLY the same way. I see lots of other great accomplishments here, but that scene entering Public Square erases whatever sense of pride I had.

 

Embarrassing is right. I live on the corner of W 6th and St. Clair and I get no pleasure from the fact that I can see down Euclid Ave from my living room window....not to mention that I have to trudge across acres of parking lots to get to Public Square.

 

It took me a while of searching, but I found this picture from the CSU archives from the 1980s. When were these buildings built? It's hard to find any info on them.

 

http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cdm/ref/collection/herrick/id/466

 

Embarrassing is right. I live on the corner of W 6th and St. Clair and I get no pleasure from the fact that I can see down Euclid Ave from my living room window....not to mention that I have to trudge across acres of parking lots to get to Public Square.

 

It took me a while of searching, but I found this picture from the CSU archives from the 1980s. When were these buildings built? It's hard to find any info on them.

 

 

http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cdm/ref/collection/herrick/id/466

 

They are actually three very old buildings that were modernized (like the Schofield). The building in the middle was short and had a big billboard on top of it to make it appear as large as the other two. I'll look in my old books for pictures, but I know MayDay[/member] has the architectural history on them.

OK, here's the history of the predecessor buildings.......

 

The two 13-story buildings which, prior to being demolished, were called One Public Square (at Superior and West Roadway) and 33 Public Square (at Frankfort and West Roadway). Before their renovation and modernization in 1965 by then-owner Albert Levin, 1 Public Square was called the Marshall Building while 33 Public Square was called the American Trust building. I don't know the name of the three-story building that stood in between them, but it and the 10-story liquor/beer billboard atop it were demolished in February 1964 for the 1965 redevelopment. It was replaced with an expanded Marshall Building that was clad in aluminum and glass, then renamed 1 Public Square.

 

A view of Public Square from 1925 I found in one of my Cleveland books looking to the northwest. The Jacobs lot is at the left:

 

In another book, this one about NE Ohio streetcars and interurbans, I found this pic which shows (behind the West 25th/State Road streetcar) the color of the buildings circa 1950:

 

 

More detail from an autographed copy of the book Cleveland Landmarks (from my father's collection):

 

One Public Square --Always a Number One Site

 

Known to many old-timers as The Marshall building, the 13-story building at the Northwest corner of Superior and Monumental Square, is officially the "Number One Public Square Building," and has been since April, 1965. At that time it was refurbished and renamed by real estate developer Albert A. Levin. Since that time it has been maintained and improved.

 

It features many law firms (as always on this site), plus a variety of other officers on the upper floors. Its ground floor corner has changed from the traditional drug store to a branch of AmeriTrust.

 

Drastic change in the face of Public Square came during Levin's upgrading of the building, because he eliminated a three-story building which had been condemned earlier. He added to the original Marshall Building on the 24-foot space, 13 stories high, thereby closing the gap which had been occupied for years by a hamburger stand below and a huge liquor sign above, topped with a giant clock.

 

Now the new glass and aluminum facade gives a modern face to the northwest corner of Public Square including #1 and #33 Public Square buildings.

 

History of the Site

 

Just as the site across the street [superior] had been a hotel since the original Mowrey's Tavern in 1818, so the northwest corner has been a commercial property since 1830; however it has change hands several time before any structure was erected on it. First Charles Dutton sold the two-acre parcel to Turhand Kirtland for $30 in 1811; Kirtland re-sold it in 1813 to Jacob Coleman for $30 (no profit there!); Jacob Coleman sold it to William Coleman in 1815 for $55, almost doubling his money. Ten years later William Coleman sold it to Leonard Case for $200. (In 1908 Wentworth Marhsall leased the land for 99 years at $12,000 per year.)

 

Benjamin and Rebecca Rouse came to Clevelandin 1830 as agents for the American Sabbath School Union of Philadelphia. First they rented a house on Superior St. for $91 per year, and sold religious literature from their front room. Her evangelistic efforts grew into the women's union gospel work of Cleveland. He organized Trinity Episcopal Sunday School in 1830, followed by First Baptist and First Methodist Sunday Schools in 1833. They bought the northwest corner (Marshall Building site) in 1833 and built a small two-story building on it with their residence above and store space for rent down below.

 

Business obviously went well, for in 1854 the two-story frame building was replaced by a four-story gray stone structure called "The Rouse Block."

 

A newsstand and bookstore became the traditional institution on the corner; it changed hands but always offered the newsstand feature from 1854 until 1979 -- 125 years. (Now it is an an AmeriTrust branch office.) Next came Albertson's jewelry store "behind a front of costly place glass!". Law firms and insurance companies occupied the second and third floors and Folsom's Mercantile College filled the fourth floor. This later became Spencerian College and is now Dyke College. William Furst, a barber, was a famous tenant for 33 years, from 1880 until the Rouse Building was torn down in 1913 to make way for the Marshall Building.

 

Becomes the Marshall Building

 

Wentworth G. Marshall opened his first drug store in the Rouse Block in 1892; built the Marshall Building on the same site in 1913 and had a chain of 46 stores across Northeastern Ohio by mid-century.

 

The land had been acquireed by the Cleveland and Sandusky Brewing Co. in 1909, sold by J.A. Sanders to the Bryan Co. in 1912 and leased to Wentworth Marshall and Louise McDaniel Marshall (widow of George G. Marshall who was killed in an accident).

 

Plans drawn by W.S. Lougee and F.W. Streibinger, architects, for a 13-story building, were approved by the Marshalls and the Stone Grill Co. It was completed in 1913, and was named, appropriately enough, The Marshall Building. It was purchased in 1957 by real estate developer Albert Arthur Levin, sold in 1983.

 

Remodeling and enlarging the Marshall Building as One Public Square Building was just the first phase in Albert Levin's ambitious plans for developing the downtown area. He built the two-level parking area just west of it, at the corner of Superior and West 3rd St. Between them is the site of Cleveland's first printshop and newspaper office. Here, on July 31, 1818, Andrew Logan published The Cleveland Gazette and Commercial Register. A plaque on the building wall commemorates the event.

 

Albert Levin bought and remodeled the William Taylor Department Store Building, renaming it "666 Euclid." Also he planned a new hotel at West Third and St. Clair but this never materialized because of his untimely death. His widow, Maxine Levin has maintained and improved the properties he acquired, and manages them well. She is the daughter of Max P. Goodman, founding president of the Cuyahoga County Bar Ass'n.

 

What is the future for this dominant building of Cleveland's Public Square? There are many guesses, but it [is] sure to remain a Number One address of important citizens for many years to come!

 

END

Very interesting. Thanks for digging that up, KJP. That all makes more sense now. I had thought the buildings were old, but the pictures from the 1980s make it look like they were mid-century construction, thus why I was confused.

More.....

 

March 1, 2010

The biggest unbuilt projects of the last 30 years

By JAY MILLER

 

Square pegs

 

The northwest quadrant of Public Square, too, has been the site of repeated attempts at monument building. In 1988, developer Richard Jacobs, who had Society Center (now Key Tower) under construction across the square, proposed a new, $500-million mixed-use complex highlighted by a 70-story office tower that would be the new headquarters of the Ameritrust Corp. banking business, then at East Ninth Street and Euclid Avenue.

 

The project would have included a Hyatt Hotel and a string of exclusive retail shops. Mr. Jacobs set about to tear down the existing Marshall and American Trust buildings at 1 and 33 Public Square.

 

Ameritrust fell on hard times, however, and in 1992 it agreed to merge with Society Corp., killing plans for a new headquarters.

 

Mr. Jacobs decided to try again at the site he still owned in 2008. This time, in partnership with the Hines Interests of Houston, the developer announced a 21-story glass tower for the site. It was time to take another crack at a project — Public Square Tower, as it was called — because of what appeared to be an upturn in the downtown office building market.

 

That upturn never materialized, and the property remains a parking lot today.

 

MORE:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100301/30THANNIVERSARY/100229858

Kind of ironic that the Cleveland Restoration Society is located in a house donated by the Levin family. The same family that apparently ruined the Marshall and Taylor Dept. Store (including its arcade) buildings.

Regarding Medical Mutual's real estate needs... Obviously I hope it's a new building and the Rose Building goes residential. If so, and if Medical Mutual's existing space-per-employee needs are ideal for them, and they don't move any more of its employees into or out of downtown (the 1,000 +/- employees stays the same), then a 381,000-square foot building on Jacobs' Public Square lot would be about 15-20 stories tall (not including parking).

 

The 21-story Public Square office tower proposed in 2008 by the Jacobs Group and Gerald Hines Interests was estimated to have 500,000 square feet of leasable office space (Source: http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20080528/FREE/330573416)

 

But if Medical Mutual kept/moved all of its 1,700 NE Ohio employees downtown and its existing spatial needs per employee at the Rose building are what Medical Mutual would want at a new building (a big, shaky assumption!), then it could require 648,000 square feet of space, or a roughly 25-30 story building on Public Square.

 

C'mon Jacobs Group! Make 'em an offer they can't refuse!!

While we've been discussing in the Office Developments thread (https://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4266.0.html) the possibilities of Sherwin-Williams and Medical Mutual putting up new office buildings (it's being discussed there because we don't yet know if/where they will build their buildings), here's something that may be worth posting in this thread...

 

On Wednesday, during a panel discussion for a campaign kick-off by Clevelanders for Public Transit, someone asked the panel about the need to push development to within walking distance of rapid transit stations and specifically noted Jacobs' parking lot on Public Square. Downtown Councilman Kerry McCormack, a member of the panel, winked his eye and said "That may not be a parking lot for much longer."

While we've been discussing in the Office Developments thread (https://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4266.0.html) the possibilities of Sherwin-Williams and Medical Mutual putting up new office buildings (it's being discussed there because we don't yet know if/where they will build their buildings), here's something that may be worth posting in this thread...

 

On Wednesday, during a panel discussion for a campaign kick-off by Clevelanders for Public Transit, someone asked the panel about the need to push development to within walking distance of rapid transit stations and specifically noted Jacobs' parking lot on Public Square. Downtown Councilman Kerry McCormack, a member of the panel, winked his eye and said "That may not be a parking lot for much longer."

 

I know McCormack gets a lot of grief... but the kid has a spark to him in a way I haven't seen since Kucinich. I do not agree with him on about 50% of his decisions, but I can appreciate his zeal.

 

Having said that, I would love a major HQ to find its way to that property and I would support it 100%. Nonetheless, there is this nagging absurd question that lingers in my head... Wouldn't another 35+ story (assuming MedMu or SW are moving, they would need that much space) make our skyline look "unique" to say the least? Viewing it from the South, we would essentially have a steady slope of buildings, rising from East to West. Maybe it would give it a great  look, but I keep thinking the skyline would look somewhat out of balance.

 

As noted, I am not complaining. I am sure I'd be smitten with any plan for a new tower. Just a thought.

I was hoping Councilman McCormack's eye-wink would flush out some insiders to post something in response -- or send something to me by personal message. :)

I was also there KJP, and I read his sorta wink as referring to the potential for the Weston development far more than I thought 'we have a Jacobs lot development on the horizon.' Nothing to prove that, I just didn't get the same takeaway as you at all.

Except the Weston development is stalled. I'm pretty confident the Jacobs lot is probably more likely at this point.

Hopefully!

Me too. But I think the office market is looking a lot more robust lately and is probably more capable of sustaining new construction than residential is. And that's only partially taking into account the still-pending moves of Sherwin-Williams and Medical Mutual. Some of the real estate brokerages are now projecting CBD Class A office vacancies to drop to 7 percent before 2020 with office rents finally pushing upward after years of stagnation.

I asked a couple questions to some friends. All they could tell me was that McCormack was NOT referring to the Weston Development

^ Well this is intriguing. Hopefully we'll be seeing a Sherwin-Williams Tower there :)

Dollar General - Book it.

Except the Weston development is stalled. I'm pretty confident the Jacobs lot is probably more likely at this point.

 

Ken, what are the specific problems with the Weston project at this point?  First thing I have ever heard about it being "stalled".  Is it simply financing or something else?  I know it hasn't moved forward (despite the ridiculous time line when first announced which nobody on this board believed) but that can be said in regards to numerous announced projects around town.

Good questions but not for this specific thread.

I'm taking a real estate finance class at CSU (I know some of you have taken it) and using this site for my final project. It's basically a development proposal where we study the market, acquisition and building costs, and potential rents, and figure out if a project is financially feasible. I'm thinking I'm not going to reinvent the wheel here and just try to build some class A office space with ground floor retail. I know the paradigm right now is hotel/office/retail/apartment like NuCLEus but that might make it too complicated for the purposes of this assignment. I will probably try to do about what Jacobs proposed back in 2008 (21 stories, half a million sqft) and see if the fundamentals have shifted to make it more feasible.

 

Do you guys have any input? From the research put out from some of the brokerages that I've read it seems that there is definitely demand for Class A downtown but that rents are not high enough yet to justify construction costs. Luckily this is fictional so I will have access to public subsidies.

Cool project. Would it be too much to pose some options such as three different building heights and uses -- all-office at 21 stories, office+extended-stay suites hotel at 30 stories, and office+extended-stay suites hotel+condominiums at 45 stories. With or without these options, I'd be curious to learn the potential subsidy requirements for each.

It might not be so bad to try different proposals if I can get good estimates of rents and construction costs which might not be so hard. The part I'm worried about most is the market study and projecting potential vacancy/occupancy, simply because I don't have experience with that. If I find it's going smoothly I can take a look at making it more of a mixed used project. I will definitely report back with my findings.

^ Well this is intriguing. Hopefully we'll be seeing a Sherwin-Williams Tower there :)

 

 

hmm, its funny that the jacobs site was once to be for mm, if anything.

 

however, the new sw office building plans on the backburner since 1990 on their landmark/big lebron poster lot are now considered to be way too small. that sounds like a bigger tower is needed. so maybe it will be sw on the jacobs site after all?

 

that would be awesome and no doubt would spark redevelopment of the warehouse district lots.

 

i wonder what would happen with landmark and the landmark lot though?

 

this was the one time landmark lot plan for sw:

 

 

 

literally anything would be better than this pathetic idea jacobs once threw out there back in 2008  >:(

 

 

 

 

more:

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2016/03/downtown-clevelands-next-office-tower.html

^ Well this is intriguing. Hopefully we'll be seeing a Sherwin-Williams Tower there :)

 

Based off a brief convo I had with a guy at Sherwin this week, it doesn't sound like this will happen anytime in the near future. The focus will be on "paying down debt from the Valspar acquisition" before making any moves on building a new HQ.