For some reason I think that Henry Sherwin and Edward Williams would turnover in their graves at the thought of SW leaving downtown Cleveland.

Edited September 21, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

7 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

For some reason I think that Henry Sherwin and Edward Williams would turnover in their graves at the thought of SW leaving downtown Cleveland.

SW is one of Cleveland Gold Star/Gold Chip Business with deep roots.  But we need to be realistic. 

 

Going forward they want to stay in Cleveland?  If yes, where?  Do they want a tower and offices/facilities scattered nearby?  Or do they want a cluster of building?  if yes, where in the city can they execute that plan for today's business and the future?

 

This is why I mentioned earlier, that I would love to see a tower on 1 Public Square, but would not be mad if Sherwin Williams moved to Midtown/East 55 Street.  That would transform the neighborhood on so many levels.  In addition, it would hasten the connectivity of businesses along Euclid, Prospect/Carneige and Chester. Smaller upstarts and hotels day-to-day businesses moving to Midtown is one thing.  Having a giant like SW move into Midtown is another.  

 

Hopefully SW will decide to build in Cleveland proper. That is the first thing that needs to be guaranteed.  Location and type of building/buildings is next.

 

 

I don't see them moving to Midtown. I don't think there's enough room for SHW and another visionary plan I'm hearing about to be in Midtown at the same time. It would be a real shocker if this visionary plan was being proposed in anticipation of SHW moving there.

 

Everything I'm hearing is that it's downtown Cleveland unless another city completely knocks the socks off of SHW and pays for all of their relocation-related expenses.

I feel pretty confident that they'll be downtown. The wildcard will be The Board. After reading about Medical Mutual's board shooting down their Taj Mahal HQ proposal, who knows.

Edited September 21, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

The Color District: between Superior, Ontario, W. 6. and St. Clair. 

 

Microbranding at at its finest. Dear S-W marketing dept., please read this post and send a memo to your Board. 

37 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I feel pretty confident that they'll be downtown. The wildcard will be The Board. After reading about Medical Mutual's board shooting down their Taj Mahal HQ proposal, who knows.

I dont believe any decision by Medical Mutual will have an affect on SW in any manner.

46 minutes ago, KJP said:

I don't see them moving to Midtown. I don't think there's enough room for SHW and another visionary plan I'm hearing about to be in Midtown at the same time. It would be a real shocker if this visionary plan was being proposed in anticipation of SHW moving there.

 

Everything I'm hearing is that it's downtown Cleveland unless another city completely knocks the socks off of SHW and pays for all of their relocation-related expenses.

Article about midtown plan please?! Lol

4 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

I dont believe any decision by Medical Mutual will have an affect on SW in any manner.

I think the point within that post was that regardless of what the CEO, CFO or other officers may recommend, the BOD will be the ultimate decision maker.

2 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I think the point within that post was that regardless of what the CEO, CFO or other officers may recommend, the BOD will be the ultimate decision maker.

and I don't believe that the board of MM relocation/move decisions will have any barring on SW board.

They won't and shouldn't. Once again, the point is that the BOD of SW, not the officers, will make the final decision.

Edited September 21, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2019/09/sherwin-williams-hq-decision-and-money-for-cleveland-lead-safe-efforts-are-separate-issues.html

 

Interesting editorial on Sherwin by PD.  That having said, I honestly cannot get over just what a toxic, pessimistic cesspool the comments section of online newspapers have become but clevleland.com in particular. I would like to know who these miserable people are and who hurt them. It is so so tiring. 

6 minutes ago, NewtoCLE said:

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2019/09/sherwin-williams-hq-decision-and-money-for-cleveland-lead-safe-efforts-are-separate-issues.html

 

Interesting editorial on Sherwin by PD.  That having said, I honestly cannot get over just what a toxic, pessimistic cesspool the comments section of online newspapers have become but clevleland.com in particular. I would like to know who these miserable people are and who hurt them. It is so so tiring. 

 

This should probably be in another thread...but Cleveland.bomb comments are tame compared to many other comparable comments/community sections.

Jaysus, what a patronizing and obvious article. If I'm on the Sherwin BOD and read this nonsense - "oh we trust Sherwin Williams to do the right thing" - that doesn't exactly motivate me to vote to stay. Might not hurt but certainly doesn't help.

 

The PD/Cleveland.com needs to use some common sense here. That article is defeatist as hell.

On 9/21/2019 at 1:50 PM, Frmr CLEder said:

They won't and shouldn't. Once again, the point is that the BOD of SW, not the officers, will make the final decision.

In today's Crain's online there is an article how the Cleveland Institute of Music received two gifts totaling $2.5 million. If you're wondering how I am going to tie this to Sherwin Williams HQ move, it's pretty straightforward.  One of the donors of this generous gift is A. Malachi Mixon. Although it did not indicate this in the article, Mr. Mixon appears to be on the BOD at Sherwin Williams. Bio here:

https://www.mcmcapital.com/professionals/a-malachi-mixon-iii/

 

Obviously, @Frmr CLEder is right above. It just seems to me that SW leaving Cleveland is an implausible notion.  I realize this is more of a superficial observation, as I have no relationships and no connections to any of this. But if the company is making money here, and has been since its inception, and the people who will make the decision on this topic - such as Mr. Mixon above - are likely *all* civic boosters who are committed to local philanthropy as well as the forward momentum of this city and its institutions, then how can one reach a different conclusion? 

Edited September 23, 20195 yr by NewtoCLE

On 9/22/2019 at 12:21 PM, NewtoCLE said:

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2019/09/sherwin-williams-hq-decision-and-money-for-cleveland-lead-safe-efforts-are-separate-issues.html

 

Interesting editorial on Sherwin by PD.  That having said, I honestly cannot get over just what a toxic, pessimistic cesspool the comments section of online newspapers have become but clevleland.com in particular. I would like to know who these miserable people are and who hurt them. It is so so tiring. 

 

The article wasn't the best at tying the HQ decision to the lead paint hazards, but I agree with your sentiment on the PD comments section.  There are some folks--who seemingly use multiple logins--who do little else than spoil any civic-minded article with conspiracy theories, and, of course, the occasional race-baiting.  I am pleased that for the most part, the PD and cleveland.com provide the forum and just ignore the nonsense.

Edited September 24, 20195 yr by PaxtonMarley

47 minutes ago, NewtoCLE said:

In today's Crain's online there is an article how the Cleveland Institute of Music received two gifts totaling $2.5 million. If you're wondering how I am going to tie this to Sherwin Williams HQ move, it's pretty straightforward.  One of the donors of this generous gift is A. Malachi Mixon. Although it did not indicate this in the article, Mr. Mixon appears to be on the BOD at Sherwin Williams. Bio here:

https://www.mcmcapital.com/professionals/a-malachi-mixon-iii/

 

Obviously, @Frmr CLEder is right above. It just seems to me that SW leaving Cleveland is an implausible notion.  I realize this is more of a superficial observation, as I have no relationships and no connections to any of this. But if the company is making money here, and has been since its inception, and the people who will make the decision on this topic - such as Mr. Mixon above - are likely *all* civic boosters who are committed to local philanthropy as well as the forward momentum of this city and its institutions, then how can one reach a different conclusion? 

...and these individuals have families, rooted in the community.

SHW doesn't list him as a director - I'm guessing he used to be but isn't anymore.

 

https://investors.sherwin-williams.com/corporate-governance/board-of-directors-and-committees/#Directors

 

While Sherwin has some Cleveland folks and some others from around Ohio on their board, there are many who seem to based elsewhere, too, which is typical of a fortune 500 company.  While there may be some discussion of the effect on Cleveland if they were to leave, I would expect far more attention to be paid to the comparative effects of staying vs. going, most of which have been described elsewhere in this thread.

 

For me, I have a hard time seeing them leaving.  The costs and distractions of doing so just seem too great.

Agreed.

 

After reviewing the photos of the new RMFH, in addition to having its name above one of the entrances, SW appears to have it strategically located throughout the facility.

None of this is really evidence that SHW will stay in Cleveland or leave for "greener" pastures.  Need I remind everyone that there's quite a long list of deeply entrenched, home-grown businesses that either moved out of Cleveland or allowed themselves to get absorbed by out-of-state competitors.  And based on the timetable, SHW's deep footprint and employment base here can be replicated or replaced virtually anywhere.  I want to be and continue to be optimistic, however.

Edited September 24, 20195 yr by PaxtonMarley

@Frmr CLEder RMFH? 

2 hours ago, PaxtonMarley said:

None of this is really evidence that SHW will stay in Cleveland or leave for "greener" pastures.  Need I remind everyone that there's quite a long list of deeply entrenched, home-grown businesses that either moved out of Cleveland or allowed themselves to get absorbed by out-of-state competitors.  And based on the timetable, SHW's deep footprint and employment base here can be replicated or replaced virtually anywhere.  I want to be and continue to be optimistic, however.

I find it interesting that the many posters who find it unlikely that SW will  move can provide a laundry list of rational reasons why a move of this nature is unlikely (for SW or any company of this size in any city) while those who claim a move is likely can only offer that if some unknown entity in some unknown state offers them enough money it will happen because this is Cleveland.

 

 

Edited September 24, 20195 yr by Htsguy

1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Agreed.

 

After reviewing the photos of the new RMFH, in addition to having its name above one of the entrances, SW appears to have it strategically located throughout the facility.

 

Yup, I was thinking the same thing. I can almost picture their future tower right here

(via: https://www.cleveland.com/galleries/FYAQZJX35NE6VHK633P6VEQPOI/)

 

Edited September 24, 20195 yr by musky

 

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 2019

Shaping up Sherwin-Williams new HQ, R&D facilities

 

For those of us who were expecting Sherwin-Williams' (SHW) new global corporate headquarters plus research and development facility to be Cleveland's newest, tallest skyscraper, we may be disappointed. That's more of a statement of about what the new HQ+R&D might look like than where it might be built.

In fact, in its recent Request For Qualifications from the Cleveland offices of two international construction management firms (CM), SHW has asked for their conceptual proposals for downtown Cleveland facilities only, according to a high-level source. Those proposals were due to be submitted today.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/09/shaping-up-sherwin-williams-new-hq-r.html

Kick ass job @KJP!!

Another great article Ken!!

Spoke to my Dad about this, and he seemed to agree (he's 83 and can be a little vague, dammit) that a chemical company R&D department is constrained by being in a downtown skyscraper.   It can be done, but there's a lot of extra cost involved and a degree of risk.

 

I seriously doubt the headquarters leaves downtown.  Even though I'm normally skeptical of the benefits of downtown HQs for a manufacturing company, in this case there are strong historical reasons.

 

I would also say that the VA site gives them an option there and if anything, strengthens Cleveland's case.  Plus it is almost literally off I-77.

Could there also be an opportunity to acquire and develop relatively inexpensive land along Opportunity Corridor?  Its completion should fit into the SW timeline.

Outstanding job once again, KJP!

8 hours ago, KJP said:

 

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 2019

Shaping up Sherwin-Williams new HQ, R&D facilities

 

For those of us who were expecting Sherwin-Williams' (SHW) new global corporate headquarters plus research and development facility to be Cleveland's newest, tallest skyscraper, we may be disappointed. That's more of a statement of about what the new HQ+R&D might look like than where it might be built.

In fact, in its recent Request For Qualifications from the Cleveland offices of two international construction management firms (CM), SHW has asked for their conceptual proposals for downtown Cleveland facilities only, according to a high-level source. Those proposals were due to be submitted today.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/09/shaping-up-sherwin-williams-new-hq-r.html

Great story from my favorite news outlet.

Ken - Excellent Article.  I never knew was that Morikis was disappointed with the new Eaton HQ.  While I'm sure it's a short commute for many executives and has plenty of parking, it is quite sterile and creates very little sense of place.

51 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Could there also be an opportunity to acquire and develop relatively inexpensive land along Opportunity Corridor?  Its completion should fit into the SW timeline.

 

Not from what I'm hearing. They're pursuing downtown sites. They're listening to sponsors of non-downtown sites.

3 minutes ago, PaxtonMarley said:

Ken - Excellent Article.  I never knew was that Morikis was disappointed with the new Eaton HQ.  While I'm sure it's a short commute for many executives and has plenty of parking, it is quite sterile and creates very little sense of place.

The Goodyear HQ is much more open, modular, modern, vibrant and provides numerous opportunities for the use of SW products. Lol

Another amazing job, @KJP. Once again exposing the limitations of Cleveland's local news and their inability to provide well-researched, well-sourced, and thoughtful reporting on real news. Fantastic piece.

KJP: Awesome article. If they put this campus setting on PS and the Superblock i will gladly take it.

From what you know would the entire superblock (including the Former Stark/Reallife ) building be

utilized?

Obviously it's still anyone's best guess as to what we will see developed and where this actually happens. The speculation is as fascinating as it can be annoying.

 

While I long to see those unsightly surface parking lot's on the western fringes of Public Square to be developed, I am hopeful to one day bear witness to an awe inspiring skyscraper and not an uninspiring low-to-midrise corporate campus.

 

These surface lot's have beckoned the presence of a NEW skyscraper for far too many year's.

 

Cleveland is sorely in need of something that will become ever more transformative for the city center.

 

Like other's, I hope that Sherwin-Williams thinks BIG AND TALL to lend a lasting impression to our cityscape.

21 minutes ago, simplythis said:

KJP: Awesome article. If they put this campus setting on PS and the Superblock i will gladly take it.

From what you know would the entire superblock (including the Former Stark/Reallife ) building be

utilized?

I don't think Reallife would be involved, but amy be wrong.

1 minute ago, John D. Baumgardner said:

Obviously it's still anyone's best guess as to what we will see developed and where this actually happens. The speculation is as fascinating as it can be annoying.

 

While I long to see those unsightly surface parking lot's on the western fringes of Public Square to be developed, I am hopeful to one day bear witness to an awe inspiring skyscraper and not an uninspiring low-to-midrise corporate campus.

 

These surface lot's have beckoned the presence of a NEW skyscraper for far too many year's.

 

Cleveland is sorely in need of something that will become ever more transformative for the city center.

 

Like other's, I hope that Sherwin-Williams thinks BIG AND TALL to lend a lasting impression to our cityscape.

One 40 story tower with several mid rise around would be great though and thoroughly enhance downtown. I would love a skyscraper first and foremost also though.

24 minutes ago, simplythis said:

KJP: Awesome article. If they put this campus setting on PS and the Superblock i will gladly take it.

From what you know would the entire superblock (including the Former Stark/Reallife ) building be

utilized?

 

If SHW chooses the Jacobs/Superblock site, my guess is that they would want to clean the entire slate and start anew, including acquiring and demolishing the old Stark HQ.

The renderings from the 2014-2015 proposal showed an interest in erecting a super tall skyscraper complex. This would be the same renderings that the city borrowed for the AMAZON H2Q bid.

 

Let's hope that the company executives are still in favor of such a plan.

Edited September 26, 20195 yr by John D. Baumgardner

Which is interesting because Morikis was heavily involved in that HQ process in 2014-15. Now, according to people around him, it seems like he's thinking differently. We'll soon see if that's true or just a smokescreen. And there is a lot of smoke involved in this process. I'm getting a lot of mixed messages and wrote about it back on Aug. 1 ( https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/08/hq-r-search-shrounded-in-fog-of-sherwin.html ). Often, when there's smoke like this, the best thing to do is learn about the people involved and study their past actions. What's odd is that Morikis is a conservative guy. But they were looking at building a pretty tall building 5-6 years ago on Public Square. And despite all of the smoke about different sites and sizes and such, sometimes its best to go back and look at what that guy and that company has done (or at least considered) before.

welp it sounds like as expected the campus plan in the warehouse district parking lot oceans is the preferred plan.

 

so that's fantastic.

 

a more traditional urban campus plan is a better choice than a supertall-ish tower for a company like sw that needs both a bigger hq and separate facilities nearby.

 

we should be over the moon as filling in the warehouse lots will make downtown look whole again.

also remember, all they have to do is put one of those bogus spires on top of the hq tower and bingo officially downtown has its new tallest. 

2 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Could there also be an opportunity to acquire and develop relatively inexpensive land along Opportunity Corridor?  Its completion should fit into the SW timeline.

 

That would be another option for the R&D section, and perhaps a better one.

I think the rendering in KJP's most recent article reflects the urban campus, on the PS-Superblock parking craters, with an 800 ft tower (which BTW would make it the 2nd tallest), shorter surrounding buildings and parking garage.

 

I also love the Quad park-like space between buildings.

 

Sounds like it could fit the bill.

Edited September 26, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

Not to mention an extra 3000 new employees downtown!  

I count roughly 1,600 new employees. 

If they’re making room for 6000...... 3 years from now might be a different story.

They have R&D locations all over the country that will most likely combined into one central location.

 

Here's a little info on the 400ee's at their Minneapolis R&D.

http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-presence-strong-16-months-after-valspar-purchase/500168432/

I'm trying to picture how the very hypothetical 40-story main HQ building would look like on the PS Jacobs lot. 

 

200 Public Square (nee the BP building) is 45/46 stories and 658' tall.   The Terminal Tower is 52 stories and 771'.  Key Tower is 57 stories and 888'  (947' at tip).

 

Obviously, we don't know how tall each floor will be compared to the other 3 buildings, but based on KJP's article, I'd bet we're not talking a gigantic height.  I suppose the main HQ tower would look fine on PS, as it would only be 5-6 stories shorter than the 200 PS, which is a decent-sized building as far as midwestern skyscrapers go.  It would also "finish off" the framing of PS on all four corners, making for great postcard and publicity picks.

 

Still, I guess I'd be just a *little* disappointed if the fourth and final skyscraper on PS is the shortest one.  The filling in of the Superblock makes up for it, but damn it, I like skylines *and* density.  Can't we have our cake and eat it too? ?