Just now, nayrmot said:

@KJP - If SHW or JC is being built at the Jacobs site, why did the city just replace the sidewalks this summer and they just repaved the Jacobs parking lot?

 

If Prospect Avenue's sewers needed repairs this summer/fall, why didn't they repair them before they repaved the street two years ago?

 

If the Lumen was going to be built on that parking lot on Euclid Avenue, why was the lot resurfaced and restriped while planning for the Lumen was progressing?

 

You're either giving our institutions way too much credit, or not recognizing that they run an inertia/routines until they are told not to. And since no decision has been finalized on where to building the JC or SHW HQ, life goes on. The inertia/routines go on.

53 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

If Prospect Avenue's sewers needed repairs this summer/fall, why didn't they repair them before they repaved the street two years ago?

 

If the Lumen was going to be built on that parking lot on Euclid Avenue, why was the lot resurfaced and restriped while planning for the Lumen was progressing?

 

You're either giving our institutions way too much credit, or not recognizing that they run an inertia/routines until they are told not to. And since no decision has been finalized on where to building the JC or SHW HQ, life goes on. The inertia/routines go on.

@KJP - Fair enough.  Just found it odd they finally put money into a location that is under so many rumors lately.  Thanks for the reply.

It's all just rumors till the construction equipment sets up.

Former SHW CEO passes away. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/former-ceo-of-sherwin-williams-dies-at-85

23 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Former SHW CEO passes away. https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/former-ceo-of-sherwin-williams-dies-at-85

 

Very sad. He won't get a chance to see the new HQ built. Breen would have been very proud since he built the foundation for it.

Ever seen the movie "MouseTrap"?

1 hour ago, tastybunns said:

Ever seen the movie "MouseTrap"?

You're referring to Mouse Hunt, surely?

Hell yeah!

We're getting real close, folks....

7 minutes ago, KJP said:

We're getting real close, folks....

New Blog Coming?

19 minutes ago, KJP said:

We're getting real close, folks....

Any details you can share with us now ???

57 minutes ago, KJP said:

We're getting real close, folks....

Care to elaborate further, Mr. P? Don't leave us all in unbridled suspense!!!!

 

???????????????

7 hours ago, KJP said:

We're getting real close, folks....

Anyone else not sleep and just refresh UO every 30 minutes for the last 7 hours—or was that just me?

On 10/25/2019 at 10:35 AM, Htsguy said:

Why don't we all ignore him so this thread doesn't take another inevitable off topic downward spiral courtesy  of our friends in Columbus and Cincinnati so the thread is not locked again.

C"mon now...don't lump us all together like this-if a few posters from out of the area are trolling then call them out please instead of bringing entire cities into this...thanks. Most of us(Cinci and Cbus people) are rooting for Cleveland here-only fools would not.

 

And I really hope that this is built in downtown Cleveland and does NOT go to a Charlotte or Atlanta-keep Ohio Businesses in Ohio!

Edited October 29, 20195 yr by Toddguy

19 hours ago, X said:

It's all just rumors till the construction equipment sets up.

 

I'm generally not a Debbie Downer but I this feels like BP all over again.  

 

I'm generally a positive person about local developments, but until I read that a site has been selected, they secure the construction area with barriers, and bulldozers and cranes go up, I wont believe the HQ is staying in Cleveland.  

I hope this will make you feel a little bit better. Buckle-up...we're coming in for a landing....

 

 

TUESDAY, OCTOBER 29, 2019

Sherwin-Williams HQ+R&D is down to two sites; decision due soon

 

A source close to ongoing property negotiations said Sherwin-Williams could decide in "the next week or so" between two downtown Cleveland sites for its new global headquarters plus research and development facility.

Officially, SHW has held steady to its official statement that it will announce its HQ+R&D site decision by the "end of this year or early 2020."

However, the source said SHW's decision is now down to two sites and may be leaning toward one of them:

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/10/sherwin-williams-hqr-is-down-to-two.html

Great reporting!!!  I still wish it was going to be Public Square. If this doesn’t go there I don’t trust the county/city enough to get anything done there and worry how long we’ll have a parking crater continue to haunt us. 
 

HOWEVER ... if it’s Bedrock this is in no way bad news. Tower City would finally be completed and it would lead to so much other development- the CityBlock vision could actually come to be, sounds like the Renaissance might expand into the parking lot next door... lots of good would come if this. 

Well... there goes my plan to create the “National Environmental Movement Museum” in that space...

Just now, Clevecane said:

Well... there goes my plan to create the “National Environmental Movement Museum” in that space...

 

And so much for the casino Phase 2 (be continued...) ?

I guess I am happy to hear this but I have been rooting for the Jacobs lot.  I have very little confidence in the county moving at all quickly on Justice Center replacement ($$ being the nut).  This was the greatest opportunity to get rid of those parking craters in years and I am not optimistic that they will go away anytime soon if they are passed over now.  And let me say for the 134th time  I HATE THAT JACOBS PARKING LOT

@KJP can you elaborate what you meant in the other thread (random development) when you said SHW would have 1500 jobs now and up to 2800 in the future. Where are these jobs coming from initially and where will they come from in the future? I thought immediately there was going to be 6k meaning 2.7 would be new (about 1.1 from within the region but not downtown).

I remain optimistic that a County/Private partnership will materialize to get the new Justice Center built, as they did with the County HQ.   At least the design might have a chance of being tolerable for the next 50 years! 

I'll take it! Definitely interesting for sure. I have no idea whet the skyline would look like if they choose this site. Very excited to hear their official announcement.

6 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I guess I am happy to hear this but I have been rooting for the Jacobs lot.  I have very little confidence in the county moving at all quickly on Justice Center replacement ($$ being the nut).  This was the greatest opportunity to get rid of those parking craters in years and I am not optimistic that they will go away anytime soon if they are passed over now.  And let me say for the 134th time  I HATE THAT JACOBS PARKING LOT

 

I also hate the Jacobs / Weston parking crater. That said, the lack of development along the river is also an embarrassment and this HQ would be an incredible jumpstart. The old industrial areas along the river are begging to be developed - this project could finally spur that progress. 

 

Please preserve the rail RoW so that the CVSR can get to the old B&O station!

Okay I have been thinking about this and I have a hunch.   SW got the great idea to secretly recruit KJP (of course paying him tons of money) to plant this news in his blog so they have leverage with Jacobs/Weston as negotiations for the PS lot come down to the wire.   Brilliant. ?

4 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

@KJP can you elaborate what you meant in the other thread (random development) when you said SHW would have 1500 jobs now and up to 2800 in the future. Where are these jobs coming from initially and where will they come from in the future? I thought immediately there was going to be 6k meaning 2.7 would be new (about 1.1 from within the region but not downtown).

 

IIRC, there's about 3,300 SHW employees downtown, with just under 3,000 in the Landmark/Skylight office buildings and just over 300 in Breen. Then, there's another 1,100 elsewhere in Greater Cleveland that could move to the new HQ+R&D. Then, there's another 1,600 employees that would be added through relocation and anticipated growth. A few hundred relocations would come mostly from Minneapolis but also from a few other cities around the USA. I expect that more than 1,000 employees would fall into the future growth category and may not be realized for years.

I feel like the view is already impressive coming in from the West on 2, if it's built on the river this would only add to that sense of density. I'd bet this would also give a spark to the 'Thunderbird' development as well.

 

My preference (and I feel most UO folks feel this way) is for something on PS, but as long as there's some near term action with the surface parking (courts tower, etc.), then it could be a pretty positive outcome - I wonder if the county would still build if the economy takes an inevitable dive?

2 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Okay I have been thinking about this and I have a hunch.   SW got the great idea to secretly recruit KJP (of course paying him tons of money) to plant this news in his blog so they have leverage with Jacobs/Weston as negotiations for the PS lot come down to the wire.   Brilliant. ?

 

Now why didn't I think of that!! I could make them an offer they couldn't refuse.

 

I still prefer the Jacobs/Weston site too, so I hope that my source who says the riverfront site has the edge is wrong. But I'd still be OK with the riverfront site. As much as we talk about needing to have a softened, publicly accessible edge to the downtown lakefront, we need the same for the part of the Cuyahoga River that comes closest to the heart of downtown.

The more I think about it, I feel like this is excellent. This would totally set gasoline to the fire of riverfront development. It would be INSANE. Watch how many developments sprout up around there if this happens. And if the JC gets built on the Jacobs lot, that crater is gone too. It’s a win win win for everyone as long as the county doesn’t wet the bed. And from the Hilton development and the County HQ development, I have more faith today that they could pull this off in a timely fashion than I would have a few years ago

I'm going to be unlike myself, and be a debbie here, but choosing the bedrock site is instantly losing about 4 stories in height from the PS site (site grades).  But miniscule issue in comparison to them moving out of town, LOL.  

2 minutes ago, KJP said:

...publicly accessible edge to the downtown lakefront, we need the same for the part of the Cuyahoga River that comes closest to the heart of downtown.

 

Public riverfront/lake access and/or a contiguous walkway/easements should be a planning requirement for any new builds in these areas

If the JC goes the the Jacobs lot, could/would the complex extend to the Weston lots as well, or is that just wishful thinking?

4 minutes ago, Jenny said:

I'm going to be unlike myself, and be a debbie here, but choosing the bedrock site is instantly losing about 4 stories in height from the PS site (site grades).  But miniscule issue in comparison to them moving out of town, LOL.  

Jenny, I thought the same thing! lol.....They'll just have to build it taller!!!

@KJP  If and when an announcement is finally made (especially if it is in the short term) do you think it will include conceptual renderings?  Although I am no development expert I would find it strange to have any retained architect developing site plans etc (especially given the cost) if you are still in negotiations for two different sites.  I would also think that such renderings do not just pop up in a day or two and require some significant thought.

Doing the math here... If Sherwin decides to have a 40 story tower and the floor height is comparable to Key Tower's:

 

Key Tower: 57 floors, 888 feet (without roof)    888 feet / 57 stories = 15.58 feet/story

 

Sherwin-Williams Tower: 40 floors x 15.58 feet = 623.16 feet

 

That's still fairly impressive, and only 36" shorter than 200 Public Square.

12 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

@KJP  If and when an announcement is finally made (especially if it is in the short term) do you think it will include conceptual renderings?  Although I am no development expert I would find it strange to have any retained architect developing site plans etc (especially given the cost) if you are still in negotiations for two different sites.  I would also think that such renderings do not just pop up in a day or two and require some significant thought.

 

The whole process was strange. SHW (or possibly Welty) retained Vocon to generate concepts for downtown sites and Welty asked CM's, as part of the RFQ, to develop proposals on their own dime to compete for the SHW HQ+R&D CM contract. The proposals were very detailed, right down to the interior finishes. I'm sure the competing CM firms spent a lot of work hours developing these proposals. But they were competing for a whale and they don't come along every day.

@KJP  just out of curiosity, what are all of the yellow buildings to the east of the proposed tower in the bedrock massings?

Just now, Jenny said:

@KJP  just out of curiosity, what are all of the yellow buildings to the east of the proposed tower in the bedrock massings?

 

They are noted in the captions. The buildings are the later phases of the CityBlock development, as shown in this massing:

 

I am a bit confused on how choosing the Bedrock site allows SHW to be less disruptive. If anything, as this site is encompassing and modernizing The current Breen, I would imagine it would slow down production and efficiency there while having to transition. I wonder if this would mean they would build all new construction initially and then rehab Breen? 
 

By no means am I an expert on any of this process, so I may be way off. I also am surprised they would choose to “modernize” Breen, rather than a tear down with new construction...although that may be impossible given the need to utilize Breen. 

28 minutes ago, HGRHS said:

I am a bit confused on how choosing the Bedrock site allows SHW to be less disruptive. If anything, as this site is encompassing and modernizing The current Breen, I would imagine it would slow down production and efficiency there while having to transition. I wonder if this would mean they would build all new construction initially and then rehab Breen? 
 

By no means am I an expert on any of this process, so I may be way off. I also am surprised they would choose to “modernize” Breen, rather than a tear down with new construction...although that may be impossible given the need to utilize Breen. 

 

They might in fact choose to replace Breen. But half of Breen is only 21 years old and the 1948-built half of Breen was thoroughly renovated in 1986. Locating the HQ right next to Breen gives SHW the option of either replacing or renovating its R&D facilities -- an option that doesn't exist with other sites.

It all makes alot of sense for a number of reasons. Unfortunately a 40 story tower on the river though will have less skyline prominence than one built on PS. At least SW will be staying and I can continue painting the interior of my condo. 

Edited October 29, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

if sw stays along the riverfront that works too.

 

it will get built up nicely around there.

 

and who knows that could even mean ... thunderbirds are go!

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

The whole process was strange. SHW (or possibly Welty) retained Vocon to generate concepts for downtown sites and Welty asked CM's, as part of the RFQ, to develop proposals on their own dime to compete for the SHW HQ+R&D CM contract. The proposals were very detailed, right down to the interior finishes. I'm sure the competing CM firms spent a lot of work hours developing these proposals. But they were competing for a whale and they don't come along every day.

 

Agreed that CM firms spent a lot of work & time on this but it's not unusual.  Only a couple firms competing.  Huge potential upside.  Often the firms put together preconstruction proposal to cover their costs and will waive it if they are the successful firm.

While like many others I’ve been rooting for the PS site, I would still be really happy with this!

As others have noted,  I love the thought of the potential for increased riverfront development that SWHQ is likely to trigger.

 

But I’m also very intrigued by the sight of a large (even if not supertall), visually stunning, state of the art skyscraper slightly removed from PS.

 

Aesthetically, I’m among those who would prefer the city’s tallest and most distinct structures to be a bit more spread out and interspersed throughout the CBD, rather than all clustered together in the center.

 

(Not to say I don’t still wish for a huge, skyline-changing presence for the “4th wall” of PS)!

 

Excellent work as always, @KJP

Cleveland Bred, Cleveland Owned all the way from the Atl.???.

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/10/ppg-adds-research-lab-at-cleveland-coatings-plant-with-eye-toward-electric-driverless-vehicles.html

 

Interesting and relevant quote on why PPG has chosen to invest so much in Cleveland including just recently adding a research lab. 

 

“There are synergies with our existing facilities. But beyond that, Cleveland has a very strong technical community,” said Gary Bennett.  

 

IMO the knowledge and the experience alone in this region was reason enough for Sherwin Williams to never truly consider leaving Cleveland.

...and don't forget the third option, the suburban Atlanta office park.  An "expert in office relocation" seemed very certain ATL was a slam dunk.

Outstanding reporting once again, KJP!

 

1 hour ago, HGRHS said:

By no means am I an expert on any of this process, so I may be way off. I also am surprised they would choose to “modernize” Breen, rather than a tear down with new construction...although that may be impossible given the need to utilize Breen. 

Breen is also pretty well maintained with updates throughout the years. Just this month they finished the addition of a new microbiology lab and submitted plans to replace the roof of the building. And using this building and land they already own would definitely lower costs on the new HQ. With the amount they won't need to spend, maybe they'll just save the money or maybe they'll pump it into slightly increasing the size of the project but that's just speculation.

FYI...

Jack Breen, former CEO of Sherwin Williams, dies at 85

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/10/jack-breen-former-ceo-of-sherwin-williams-dies-at-85.html

 

Edited October 29, 20195 yr by PaxtonMarley