10 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Where does SHW manufacture their paint. I think someone mentioned an east side

suburban location. ( Warrensville Hts ? ).

Is this location subject to change?

I thought they manufactured jn Effingham, Illinois, but could be wrong.  

6 minutes ago, Jenny said:

I thought they manufactured jn Effingham, Illinois, but could be wrong.  

 

They also have significant production facilities in Mexico and Brazil.

On 10/29/2019 at 11:30 AM, Tarblooder14 said:

Cleveland Bred, Cleveland Owned all the way from the Atl.???.

wonder if the tower will have an orb on its top

2 minutes ago, shack said:

wonder if the tower will have an orb on its top

This was my wish about 15 pages back. Though I settled on one on the plaza in front. Chicago Bean iconic style. 

On 9/3/2019 at 10:18 PM, marty15 said:

I just want a big, stainless globe at the top. #covertheearth

@shack

On 10/29/2019 at 1:40 PM, ydard said:

I will be very disappointed if this thing doesn't go on Public Square.  This is a once in a generation chance to do something significant with that long-festering wasteland.

What I'm most concerned about is how a tall building will interact with the terminal tower from the rivers edge. The public square site guarantees a proper  spacing as it does with the Key and Huntington towers. The Terminal Tower's prominence depends depends more on this spacing than its actual  height. Some of the best unobstructed views of the TT are from the west side  of the river as well as from public square. Also its more important that the warehouse district, that is already developed, be linked up with the rest of the city than some undeveloped proposal called Thunderbird that may or may not be fully developed.

More info coming in from sources I've relied on. Getting conflicting info from four sources -- evenly split as to which of the two sites has the edge, but it's still just the two sites.

38 minutes ago, marty15 said:

This was my wish about 15 pages back. Though I settled on one on the plaza in front. Chicago Bean iconic style. 

 

Would love a large animated neon sign atop a 60 story building for "Cover the Earth."

It's interesting but "Cover the Earth" has a potentially unfavorable tang to it these days considering its inherently environmentally unfriendly vibe, not to mention the whole lead paint side of things.

41 minutes ago, marty15 said:

@shack

We need an iconic building that will grab peoples attention.

I initially felt that Public Square/Weston Lot was the only place for the new HQ, considering the company’s history in Cleveland and international prestige. But after reading the latest (and once again great)  Neo-Trans blog and “remembering” that Tower City master plan  rendering from 1990, I’m thinking how transformational SW would be at the riverfront. The tallest tower, apparently to be 40 stories,  will  not appear quite as high as it would on the square, but it would generate a new excitement and vitality along the riverfront - extending fo Scranton Peninsula area. It would also be front and center for National TV events with those Goodyear blimp shots. It might also happen on a faster timetable than the PS site.  My only concern would be public access  to a vital stretch of riverfront. How it will play out is fascinating. If I were a betting man, I’d put my chips on the riverfront site. Ultimately the presence of SW downtown is a huge Cleveland 

win and (as soon as it’s officially announced) let’s enjoy the victory. 

I'm hoping SHW chooses the Weston lot. I think the 40 story tower will look awkward on the riverfront. I'm voting for Weston. 

2 hours ago, CleveFan said:

I initially felt that Public Square/Weston Lot was the only place for the new HQ, considering the company’s history in Cleveland and international prestige. But after reading the latest (and once again great)  Neo-Trans blog and “remembering” that Tower City master plan  rendering from 1990, I’m thinking how transformational SW would be at the riverfront. The tallest tower, apparently to be 40 stories,  will  not appear quite as high as it would on the square, but it would generate a new excitement and vitality along the riverfront - extending fo Scranton Peninsula area. It would also be front and center for National TV events with those Goodyear blimp shots. It might also happen on a faster timetable than the PS site.  My only concern would be public access  to a vital stretch of riverfront. How it will play out is fascinating. If I were a betting man, I’d put my chips on the riverfront site. Ultimately the presence of SW downtown is a huge Cleveland 

win and (as soon as it’s officially announced) let’s enjoy the victory. 

Much like the current headquarters it would be tucked away in a back corner alley of downtown Cleveland that gets very little visibility from non employee pedestrian traffic. In terms of publicity and showcasing its brand you can't beat the Public Square location . Not many people are even aware that SW is headquartered at the Landmark  office building due to its poor location. That part of Huron road is a dismal drive thru area. 

3 hours ago, shack said:

Much like the current headquarters it would be tucked away in a back corner alley of downtown Cleveland that gets very little visibility from non employee pedestrian traffic. In terms of publicity and showcasing its brand you can't beat the Public Square location . Not many people are even aware that SW is headquartered at the Landmark  office building due to its poor location. That part of Huron road is a dismal drive thru area. 

 

Would that be on purpose though?   I don't know all that much about SW beyond a little bit about their R&D focus,  but their location suggests they may have a rather insular corporate culture.   Perhaps, like Progressive, they want it that way.

9 hours ago, w28th said:

 

Would love a large animated neon sign atop a 60 story building for "Cover the Earth."

It's interesting but "Cover the Earth" has a potentially unfavorable tang to it these days considering its inherently environmentally unfriendly vibe, not to mention the whole lead paint side of things.

Just change the paint color to green and you’ll be fine! ?

 

@CleveFan, agree on the “Blimpworthiness” of the riverfront sight. Goodyear images looking northeast toward the Gund (ya, that’s right) will be dominated by a cover the earth logo, with TT and the PS towers rising to its left and right. (At least in my head—I’m not great at creativity). @Geowizical, quick, test it out! ?

15 hours ago, viscomi said:

 

As I thought. 

Maybe they'll consider public access if they chose this site for their new development. 

8 hours ago, jbee1982 said:

I'm hoping SHW chooses the Weston lot. I think the 40 story tower will look awkward on the riverfront. I'm voting for Weston. 

For their needs, they could probably get by with PS and 1/2 of the Weston property, leaving the other 1/2 of Weston for the courthouse.

Everyone assumes that because the river is lower than Huron,the SW tower, even if its footprint is between Huron and the river will also be built at the river's elevation. I'd think a Fortune 500 company like Sherwin would want its front door at Street level, which would make the tower, even if "only" 40 stories stand out. Look at how Erieview Tower at 40 Stories and 200 PS at 45 stand out from the west:

13 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:

Everyone assumes that because the river is lower than Huron,the SW tower, even if its footprint is between Huron and the river will also be built at the river's elevation. I'd think a Fortune 500 company like Sherwin would want its front door at Street level, which would make the tower, even if "only" 40 stories stand out. Look at how Erieview Tower at 40 Stories and 200 PS at 45 stand out from the west:

 

That's what is baffling me about the concerns of having SHW located at the Bedrock site. Furthermore, are we to assume that the HQ's floor count will start at the level of the old Cleveland Union Terminal coach yards (currently the elevation of the Tower City parking lot--open air portion)? What if the floor count starts at a main entrance off Huron, with multiple levels of new parking deck below? Even if it doesn't, only about 2-4 levels of offices/services/maintenance could be below Huron.

 

It looks like about four levels of parking garage could be built below the HQ tower, without excavating. Here is a graphic showing when the convention center was proposed at Tower City in 2005, the CUT track level elevation (and thus the Tower City parking lot floor) is at the lower left. I added some labels for clarity.

Edited October 31, 20195 yr by KJP

I do not want to veer this off topic, but question for you @KJP .  If SW chooses to build on the riverfront site, between this and City Block how does that affect the potential extension of the CVSR into Tower City or the old B&O Building?  Is that still a possibility?  I thought there was some talk of revisiting that plan recently.  I have no idea where the tracks are or would be, etc. so pardon my lack of knowledge here.

15 hours ago, viscomi said:

 

Looking at this picture, I definitely vote for the Weston/Jacob site. It is already a site that has taken forever to get anything viable to build there, it is the site where the best and biggest of Cleveland's buildings and companies should go because it is basically the welcome area in Downtown for tourists, residents and workers. A tower on that site from a company with the stature would put a stamp on the re-arrival of Cleveland as a city and show off how far we've come from our low point.

 

This site would be perfect for more of a mixed use neighborhood with restaurants or other amenities that would ignite that area immediately. Tower City on the inside is already about to get a shot in the arm with a mixed use complex full of retail, office and overall new energy, continuing that by constructing a development that allows people to leave the mall and have EVEN MORE to do. Constructing a mixed use building possibly the size of the Convention Center that was proposed on the site that connects to the rail line and is built over the existing parking lot would create a WHITE HOT area immediately. Combine that with landscaping, maybe a walkway or boardwalk similar to the flats would liven the area up and still help with the momentum of the scranton Peninsula.

 

The Scranton Peninsula is supposed to be Cleveland's next big neighborhood. If we build a development across the river that COMPLIMENTS it and continues the vibrancy that it is supposed to create it will make for a much more pleasant and enjoyable area overall. A development that will most likely cut off public access doesn't do much to add energy to an already dull and lifeless area that is already underserved. 

 

Imagine this building maintaining a similar size and site plan but with a few more floors as mixed use/retail:

 

Then again, one can argue it's taken even longer to develop the Cleveland Union Terminal Group plan, which started in the 1910s and was stunted by the Great Depression. A few buildings were added here and there, including the postwar Lausche state office building, the Ritz Carlton Hotel, Skylight office tower and Stokes courthouse tower. Although the latter, under the Van Swerigens' plan, would have been built above the track level rather than on it. And with the envisioned growth of passenger rail travel for decades to come, the entire CUT coach yard tracks were to have been realigned and the spaces between them widened for additional station platforms, with the Steam Concourse expanded to the south above those tracks and new office buildings, hotels and stores built along Huron above the tracks and southward along the west side of Ontario/Orange, also above the tracks.

 

Forest City's late 80s/early 90s dreams of building the Tower City Riverview Phase would have finally achieved many of the Vans' dreams from 50+ years earlier. But those were stunted too by the recession of the early 1990s and the city's decline in population and the region's stagnation. So while I hate that the Jacobs/Weston lots have been parking lots for 30+ years, I also hate that the CUT/Tower City riverfront has been largely undeveloped for 80+ years.

 

Of course, I don't see that riverfront all that often, as I do the Jacobs/Weston lots. I suspect that, in the course of their daily lives, others are reminded more often about the gaping hole west of Public Square than they are of the untapped riverfront.

Edited October 31, 20195 yr by KJP

If they choose the riverfront site I would only hope they would build up to the street (Huron rd). The site would be between canal and Huron right?

 

3 minutes ago, Mildtraumatic said:

If they choose the riverfront site I would only hope they would build up to the street (Huron rd). The site would be between canal and Huron right?

 

 

For the headquarters, yes.

a longshot question maybe, but has there ever been any known record of any of these possible sites offered for sale in that past?

 

it would be interesting to see how much $ they wanted, even if it is very dated from today.

47 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

For the headquarters, yes.

 

If this happens, the city HAS to come up with a truck route from the port to I-90.   If you've ever spent any time on Huron, it's non-stop 54-wheel semi dump trucks wailing through there.

3 hours ago, Clevecane said:

Just change the paint color to green and you’ll be fine! ?

 

@CleveFan, agree on the “Blimpworthiness” of the riverfront sight. Goodyear images looking northeast toward the Gund (ya, that’s right) will be dominated by a cover the earth logo, with TT and the PS towers rising to its left and right. (At least in my head—I’m not great at creativity). @Geowizical, quick, test it out! ?

Not to veer off topic but the purpose of the blimp is for people to look up and notice it and not the other way around during the few event days out of the year that it is seen there. 

35 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

If this happens, the city HAS to come up with a truck route from the port to I-90.   If you've ever spent any time on Huron, it's non-stop 54-wheel semi dump trucks wailing through there.

 

You're absolutely right. Huron is a mess.

3 minutes ago, w28th said:

 

You're absolutely right. Huron is a mess.

 

39 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

If this happens, the city HAS to come up with a truck route from the port to I-90.   If you've ever spent any time on Huron, it's non-stop 54-wheel semi dump trucks wailing through there.

This would help.

 

40 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

a longshot question maybe, but has there ever been any known record of any of these possible sites offered for sale in that past?

 

it would be interesting to see how much $ they wanted, even if it is very dated from today.

 

Interesting question. None of these properties have been listed for sale for many years, if not decades.

 

Even as Jacobs has sold off most of its empire, I don't think I remember ever seeing the Public Square lot listed for sale.

 

Weston has only recently amassed many little parcels into its vast Superblock and hasn't listed them for sale either.

 

And the disposition of Forest City Enterprises' holdings were all done off-market. Bedrock hasn't listed its properties for sale either. The casino sale was done off-market. 

^ aah nuts.

 

that's kind of what i had thought unfortunately.

 

it might be interesting to look at prices on directly adjacent lots though.

 

those with previous known offerings or sales.

 

i would guess sw will be doing that to help gage a fair price offer.

 

just curious about property costs and how varied each parcel might be $$$-wise while we wait.

7 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Interesting question. None of these properties have been listed for sale for many years, if not decades.

 

Even as Jacobs has sold off most of its empire, I don't think I remember ever seeing the Public Square lot listed for sale.

 

Weston has only recently amassed many little parcels into its vast Superblock and hasn't listed them for sale either.

 

And the disposition of Forest City Enterprises' holdings were all done off-market. Bedrock hasn't listed its properties for sale either. The casino sale was done off-market. 

@kjp...at one time weren't you hinting at some "secret" development along the south side of St. Clair between 3rd and 6th?  Am I getting this right?  If I am is that no more.

5 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Would that be on purpose though?   I don't know all that much about SW beyond a little bit about their R&D focus,  but their location suggests they may have a rather insular corporate culture.   Perhaps, like Progressive, they want it that way.

Perhaps, but I think it has more to do with the company staying true to its roots in a very literal way by building its HQ and the site it was founded some 150 yrs prior. Thee is something to be said about that for nostalgic and sentimental reasons. I'm not saying its their primary motivating factor but rather a part of their subconscious leanings. 

47 minutes ago, w28th said:

 

You're absolutely right. Huron is a mess.

As anyone eating below can attest!

4 hours ago, Htsguy said:

@kjp...at one time weren't you hinting at some "secret" development along the south side of St. Clair between 3rd and 6th?  Am I getting this right?  If I am is that no more.

 

Yes, the Dream Hotel chain was reportedly looking at a site on St. Clair Avenue in the Warehouse District. 

 

@mrnyc Although nothing is listed for sale, Weston's most recent property acquisitions in the Superblock might shed some light on what a property might be worth here. Its last acquisitions here were in 2016. In May of that year, Weston acquired 0.9-acres (four parcels) on St. Clair, just west of the old Stark HQ at the corner of West 3rd and St. Clair. They acquired the land for $3,578,500. For tax purposes, the county currently has appraised the four parcels in total at $3,969,400.

 

Two months earlier, Weston acquired 0.8-acres just south of the Stark HQ for an undisclosed amount. For tax purposes, the county currently has appraised the two parcels in total at $3,615,600. While county appraisals are sometimes way off, this one seems about right based on what Weston paid for the 0.9-acre property several years ago and the county's current appraisal.

 

So, in other words, it's possible that the Jacobs/Weston properties could have a value of about $4 million per acre.

 

As for the 8.549-acre Bedrock parcel that has only the surface parking lot between Huron and Canal, all the way from Stokes tower to the RTA tracks, it currently has an appraised value of $20,562,100 or $2.4 million per acre. But it was valued by the county at $45,000,000 as recently as 2014 or $5.26 million per acre.

 

Applying those values to the properties in question.....

 

The Jacobs lot measures 1.17 acres = $4.68 million (could have a higher, premium value considering it's on Public Square)

The Weston Superblock measures 5.6 acres = $22.4 million

The Bedrock land that SHW is interested in measures about 2.7 acres = $6.48 million (but could be worth more if Bedrock asserts the 2014 value for sales)

 

I hope this helps.

 

EDITED with the county's appraised value of Bedrock's land.

Edited October 31, 20195 yr by KJP

4 hours ago, shack said:

Not to veer off topic but the purpose of the blimp is for people to look up and notice it and not the other way around during the few event days out of the year that it is seen there. 

Right - but while we’re on the ground locally, looking up, there’s often a national audience looking down at beautiful shots of the city taken from it. And we’re not completely off topic because we’re discussing  some  pros/cons of the leading possible sites. And if I can  sneak just one tangential comment in here - did everybody notice how T- Mobile used the Cleveland skyline - not once, but twice, in their city- themed baseball commercial during World Series game 7? 

Edited October 31, 20195 yr by CleveFan

7 hours ago, shack said:

Not to veer off topic but the purpose of the blimp is for people to look up and notice it and not the other way around during the few event days out of the year that it is seen there. 

Edit: didn’t see @CleveFan responded to this above. 

Edited November 1, 20195 yr by Clevecane

3 hours ago, CleveFan said:

Right - but while we’re on the ground locally, looking up, there’s often a national audience looking down at beautiful shots of the city taken from it. And we’re not completely off topic because we’re discussing  some  pros/cons of the leading possible sites. And if I can  sneak just one tangential comment in here - did everybody notice how T- Mobile used the Cleveland skyline - not once, but twice, in their city- themed baseball commercial during World Series game 7? 

That commercial was aired throught the Series and not just Game 7. Plus Jacobs Field was in it and Lindor

Edited November 1, 20195 yr by B767PILOT

If the tower is tall enough to require caissons, I wonder if there would be any cost savings to be had by building at river level (80 feet lower than Public Square), and if so, how significant they might be.

6 hours ago, bazingajoe said:

If the tower is tall enough to require caissons, I wonder if there would be any cost savings to be had by building at river level (80 feet lower than Public Square), and if so, how significant they might be.

But that would assume that the underlying bedrock is not 80 feet lower

7 hours ago, bazingajoe said:

If the tower is tall enough to require caissons, I wonder if there would be any cost savings to be had by building at river level (80 feet lower than Public Square), and if so, how significant they might be.

No need for caissons. It's on the Bedrock site.

Most highrises bearing on a Mat Foundation also have caissons beneath the mat to account for counterweight effects.  

3 hours ago, B767PILOT said:

But that would assume that the underlying bedrock is not 80 feet lower

 

I would think most of the grade drop is based on river erosion, not bedrock level. But you raise a good point. Every site is different.

Happening across from Bar Louie now. Don't know if it means anything.

Core samples on one of the Weston parcels?  That's a good sign.

Edited November 2, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

1 hour ago, Cleveland95 said:

Happening across from Bar Louie now. Don't know if it means anything.

 

Hopefully this is related to SHW, but at least we know somebody wants to build something there!! ?

1 hour ago, Cleveland95 said:

Happening across from Bar Louie now. Don't know if it means anything.

 

 

That's VERY interesting! SHW knows a lot about the Jacobs lot from the civil engineering work it asked AECOM to do there five years ago. But it probably doesn't know anything about the Weston lots. But I remember that Forest City did some geotech analysis of the SW corner of the Weston lots after it bought and demolished the short parking deck at Superior and West 6th. Keep an eye on the geotech rig. See if it moves around on the Weston lots and gets additional samples.

Can you see who the geotech contractor is?

12 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

That's VERY interesting! SHW knows a lot about the Jacobs lot from the civil engineering work it asked AECOM to do there five years ago. But it probably doesn't know anything about the Weston lots. But I remember that Forest City did some geotech analysis of the SW corner of the Weston lots after it bought and demolished the short parking deck at Superior and West 6th. Keep an eye on the geotech rig. See if it moves around on the Weston lots and gets additional samples.

Very Interesting Indeed. The Weston lot across from Bar Louie is the Northern lot, which everyone is hoping that if SHW takes the PS lot and the

Westin southern lot on Superior, then the JC would go to the northern lot.  KJP - Could it be that JC gets the PS lot  and SHW gets both Westin Lots for its campus.

Noboby has ever mentioned this combination before. Is this scenario possible.

You heard it first on UrbanOhio!

I'm down here now. There are two separate firms down here, drilling multiple locations in the Weston lots, working on both sides of Frankfort, from West 3rd to West 6th.

 

Photos coming. 

Edited November 2, 20195 yr by KJP