4 hours ago, GISguy said:

As exciting as this is, I do hope they're able to find tenants for the spaces they'll be leaving in the suburbs. I'm all about growing dt cle but at the same time, its beneficial to have a humming hub AND humming spokes (suburbs). 

 

TLDR: Get the tower built and hand off real estate to some good firms to make good on the suburban tax bases.

 

Disagree.  None of those suburbs gave a damn about Cleveland when they were siphoning off jobs, retail, and services.  They don't give a damn now.  They should get squat.

7 minutes ago, X said:

 

Disagree.  None of those suburbs gave a damn about Cleveland when they were siphoning off jobs, retail, and services.  They don't give a damn now.  They should get squat.

 

Preach.

13 minutes ago, X said:

 

Disagree.  None of those suburbs gave a damn about Cleveland when they were siphoning off jobs, retail, and services.  They don't give a damn now.  They should get squat.

And residents, and continually lobbying for transportation dollars for expanded highways and roadways. That’s raw poaching imo

29 minutes ago, X said:

 

Disagree.  None of those suburbs gave a damn about Cleveland when they were siphoning off jobs, retail, and services.  They don't give a damn now.  They should get squat.

Trust me (read my previous posts for proof) I'm no fan of companies leaving the city or killing county services because of their sprawl, but we need to think regionally. Cleveland doesn't end at city limits, to think otherwise is shortsighted. 

I hope all of the offices for every company move downtown and every suburban office park rots into the ground and is replaced by redwoods and black bears. Keeeeping it on topic bring all them SW jobs downtown!

12 minutes ago, bumsquare said:

I hope all of the offices for every company move downtown and every suburban office park rots into the ground and is replaced by redwoods and black bears. Keeeeping it on topic bring all them SW jobs downtown!

 

All of this new SHW info Fantastic, exciting and I love it..........

 

BUT don’t let it distract you from the fact that @KJP said there is a new Mega deal in the works that is bigger then SHW and Progressive!    ?

2 hours ago, GISguy said:

Trust me (read my previous posts for proof) I'm no fan of companies leaving the city or killing county services because of their sprawl, but we need to think regionally. Cleveland doesn't end at city limits, to think otherwise is shortsighted. 

Completely disagree.  To put it in context,  to the MAJORITY of suburbanites, Cleveland ends at it's borders, unless a particular need/issue is important to them.  

 

REQUEST:  @X can the regionalism  / city vs suburb discussion be moved to a different appropriate thread?  

Edited November 19, 20195 yr by MyTwoSense

26 minutes ago, NR said:

All of this new SHW info Fantastic, exciting and I love it..........

 

BUT don’t let it distract you from the fact that @KJP said there is a new Mega deal in the works that is bigger then SHW and Progressive!    ?

 

Where did he say that??

Just now, jbee1982 said:

 

Where did he say that??

 

In the Random Developments thread. But let's keep this thread focused on SHW.

1 minute ago, KJP said:

 

In the Random Developments thread. But let's keep this thread focused on SHW.

KJP; Once again thanks for a well informed article. You had mentioned that Vocon Partners is the architect for SHW

but in the other thread whereas you mentioned that a megaproject is in the works some other poster mentioned that

Vocon is working on its largest project ever. Is SHW Vocon's largest project or  is it co-incidental that Vocon is 

working on both projects.

10 minutes ago, simplythis said:

KJP; Once again thanks for a well informed article. You had mentioned that Vocon Partners is the architect for SHW

but in the other thread whereas you mentioned that a megaproject is in the works some other poster mentioned that

Vocon is working on its largest project ever. Is SHW Vocon's largest project or  is it co-incidental that Vocon is 

working on both projects.

 

Coincidental

Just now, KJP said:

 

Coincidental

Thank you - when do you think we can hear something on this - month, half-year?

6 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said:

Should more than make up for the loss of the Lebron effect. All those people who came to town stayed in hotels and ate at restaurants while in town to catch a Cavs game.

This is so much bigger than that, as the "leBron effect" only centered around basketball games and spend in Gateway.

 

SW HQ consolidation would mean, for at least 3 business nights

• Increased flights to/from Hopkins
• Increased taxi/car share
• Increased use of downtown buses and loops
• Increased spending on expense reports at local venues
• Increased spending at restaurant and SW in house restaurant mgmt company (ie restaurant associates)
• Increased Group event sales at places like the zoo, PHS, Museums, entertainment venues like the Goodtime II
• Increased spend at local retailers for forgotten needs

 

Trainers need a training center.  Trainers need materials and products.  Third party vendors will see an increase in orders for materials and products.

With an additional 2.5k jobs, will need places to eat or extended hours are existing venues.

 

I see landlords renovating and upgrading properties for renters and buyers.  This is good on two fold as big build new units will most likely be online BEFORE the building is finished.  Downtown, Ohio City, Det-Shore, AsiaTown/Goodrich and Central the immediate beneficiaries.  contractors and material manufactures see an increase in spend.

 

Company's like steelcase and knoll will bid on office furniture and maintenance contracts.  That product will need to be made and close.

 

Temporary firms will be needed to fill in jobs while the company moves divisions and departments.  This is a great time to be a contractor.

 

Security firms, maintenance and engineering firms and even local florists will see an increase in business.

 

This is WAY bigger than the "LeBron effect" 

 

I've heard some speculation that SHW could include a hotel as part of its HQ. Nothing specific from insiders -- just chit-chat in the development community. But it should be noted that the Renaissance, just across the street, averages only 60 percent occupancy so they may be able to take up the slack without new construction. And SHW is one of their corporate clients.

Just now, KJP said:

I've heard some speculation that SHW could include a hotel as part of its HQ. Nothing specific from insiders -- just chit-chat in the development community. But it should be noted that the Renaissance, just across the street, averages only 60 percent occupancy so they may be able to take up the slack without new construction. And SHW is one of their corporate clients.

 

Also, Cleveland is a Marriott city (even before the starwood merger) and this could jump start the Renaissance addition, if a hotel is not built as apart of the project.  Just a thought.

22 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Coincidental

Does Vocom even have experience building skyscrapers? I looked at the website and didn't see any.

WARNING! LENGTHY POST:

 

If anyone isn't familiar with Vocon Architects, they actually have a very large canvas here in NEO *(pun inteded)* ... Here's a few new and flipped projects they've very decently executed, but never at the scale of what SHW and R&D will hold. This will be quite the challenge for them, and by the interior/exterior photos on their website, I think they'll do a great job putting together a sleek, large, and motivational work center.

 

Cleveland Institute of Art: Student Housing

 

Oatey LEED project

 

GBX Group HQ at 2101 Superior Ave

 

The Quarter Ohio City

 

Goodyear Akron HQ

 

Battery Park / Edgewater neighborhood

 

And Medical Mart (Disclaimer: although it was a disastrous addition because the market wasn't right, it can always be repurposed, but all bets aside it's actually a really sleek building)

27 minutes ago, simplythis said:

Thank you - when do you think we can hear something on this - month, half-year?

I thought the other Vocon project involved Bedrock.

6 minutes ago, jbee1982 said:

Does Vocom even have experience building skyscrapers? I looked at the website and didn't see any.

 

I suspect that Vocon will partner with another architect like Gensler, like they did with Goodyear's HQ. Interestingly, I've been followed on Twitter by some of Gensler's people in Chicago.

2 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

This is so much bigger than that, as the "leBron effect" only centered around basketball games and spend in Gateway.

 

SW HQ consolidation would mean, for at least 3 business nights

• Increased flights to/from Hopkins
• Increased taxi/car share
• Increased use of downtown buses and loops
• Increased spending on expense reports at local venues
• Increased spending at restaurant and SW in house restaurant mgmt company (ie restaurant associates)
• Increased Group event sales at places like the zoo, PHS, Museums, entertainment venues like the Goodtime II
• Increased spend at local retailers for forgotten needs

 

Trainers need a training center.  Trainers need materials and products.  Third party vendors will see an increase in orders for materials and products.

With an additional 2.5k jobs, will need places to eat or extended hours are existing venues.

 

I see landlords renovating and upgrading properties for renters and buyers.  This is good on two fold as big build new units will most likely be online BEFORE the building is finished.  Downtown, Ohio City, Det-Shore, AsiaTown/Goodrich and Central the immediate beneficiaries.  contractors and material manufactures see an increase in spend.

 

Company's like steelcase and knoll will bid on office furniture and maintenance contracts.  That product will need to be made and close.

 

Temporary firms will be needed to fill in jobs while the company moves divisions and departments.  This is a great time to be a contractor.

 

Security firms, maintenance and engineering firms and even local florists will see an increase in business.

 

This is WAY bigger than the "LeBron effect" 

 

Yes, hence my comment "more than make up for."

 

All those businesses that have seen a down tick due to less people coming into town to see Cabs games because of Lebron are about to see (In a few years), a massive surge in business, surpassing business levels they saw when the Cavs were perennial Championship contenders.

I'm not convinced this really leads to more traffic at Hopkins and it might actually be less.  They already have training here so that shouldn't affect it at all.  And if they move a bunch of people here, that's fewer folks who have to travel here.  It should help downtown hotels and restaurants at the expense of suburban ones and obviously adding permanent jobs to the metro will help a ton but Hopkins shouldn't see much difference.

 

2 hours ago, Potamus said:

I'm not convinced this really leads to more traffic at Hopkins and it might actually be less.  They already have training here so that shouldn't affect it at all.  And if they move a bunch of people here, that's fewer folks who have to travel here.  It should help downtown hotels and restaurants at the expense of suburban ones and obviously adding permanent jobs to the metro will help a ton but Hopkins shouldn't see much difference.

 

As a HQ and Consolidating business from other regions, travel TO Cleveland will increase and not just for training. Ancillary business will also have increased travel to the region.  When BP/SOHIO left that affected business travel to/from the city.  That then affected leisure travel.

8 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

 

 

As a HQ and Consolidating business from other regions, travel TO Cleveland will increase and not just for training. Ancillary business will also have increased travel to the region.  When BP/SOHIO left that affected business travel to/from the city.  That then affected leisure travel.

It’s unquestionably a plus. To what extent is impossible to gauge at this point. The relocated Valspar employees will also help. Non stop service to Minneapolis was just added at Hopkins from a new carrier. I see that having everything to do with SHW as well. Then we still have @KJP‘s mega mystery project to boot!

3 minutes ago, marty15 said:

It’s unquestionably a plus. To what extent is impossible to gauge at this point. The relocated Valspar employees will also help. Non stop service to Minneapolis was just added at Hopkins from a new carrier. I see that having everything to do with SHW as well.

I don't believe that a SEASONAL leisure flight, that flies TWICE A WEEK,  is related to SW.  I think it was a way to maximize use of a plane turn/re-positioning flight.

7 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said:

I don't believe that a SEASONAL leisure flight, that flies TWICE A WEEK,  is related to SW.  I think it was a way to maximize use of a plane turn/re-positioning flight.

It’s now the 3rd carrier with nonstops to MSP out of Hopkins. I guess it’s all a coincidence. 

Just now, marty15 said:

It’s now the 3rd carrier with nonstops to MSP out of Hopkins. I guess it’s all a coincidence. 

I say coincidence.  This is more about expansion out of Minnie than building up service in Cleveland. 

I'm sure the MSP/CLE route has become more important as a result of the SW-Valspar acquisition. I'm not so sure however whether or not employees are required by policy to fly deeply discounted flights. I think the new carrier saw an uptick in route volume from competing carriers and saw it as an expansion opportunity to CLE; they're in route expansion mode.  Whether it is successful or not remains to be seen.

Edited November 19, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

Some news.....

 

 

AND

 

50 minutes ago, KJP said:

Some news.....

 

 

AND

 

Quote

From the Tony Wilbert/CoStar piece:

Public officials in northeast Ohio reportedly don't want to lose Sherwin-Williams' headquarters, which employs about 4,400 workers. 

 

lol uh, duh.

 

Also, here's another quote (I wonder if our pesky 'relocation expert' is what he's referring to with the 'press' remark):

Quote

The comments made by Piedmont Office's CEO were the first public remarks definitively connecting Atlanta to the search. When analysts asked Smith for more information about Sherwin-Williams' search, he said the company is looking at a number of cities. "It's Atlanta, Charlotte and Dallas, as that's been reported in the press," he said, according to a transcript of the call. "And even within Atlanta, there are multiple locations they could go. It is still very early."

 

Sorry, was reading through this piece as I was commenting. It was the site section specialist who they're leaning on for these other cities, and at least @KJP got some love (even if it's backhanded).

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by GISguy

Can they just announce that they’re staying here already and put this stuff to bed?!

@KJP’s reporting: ??

 

Everyone else:

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by Enginerd

More drilling rigs in the north Weston lots today. Was riding by on the 55 and couldn't get my camera out fast enough. 

2 hours ago, KJP said:

More drilling rigs in the north Weston lots today. Was riding by on the 55 and couldn't get my camera out fast enough. 

I think I know where I'm going for my lunch walk today...

 

Edit: by the time I got down there they were wrapped up

Edited November 21, 20195 yr by GISguy

38 minutes ago, KJP said:

More drilling rigs in the north Weston lots today. Was riding by on the 55 and couldn't get my camera out fast enough. 

And you call yourself a reporter...:)

Baah!! ?

On 11/18/2019 at 8:05 PM, KJP said:

 

I suspect that Vocon will partner with another architect like Gensler, like they did with Goodyear's HQ. Interestingly, I've been followed on Twitter by some of Gensler's people in Chicago.

It's interesting that Vocon has recently hired architect Tom Vecchione as a

principal and he was a major person with architect firm Gensler that like you said worked on the Goodyear HQ project and he is currently working on the CITYBLOCK Project.

 

I have to give credit to marty15 who posted the link below in the Tower City topic and that I learned about this interesting architect.

https://commercialobserver.com/2019/11/tom-vecchione-architect-gensler-vocon/

 

Edited November 21, 20195 yr by Larry1962
Typos and more details

14 hours ago, Larry1962 said:

It's interesting that Vocon has recently hired architect Tom Vecchione as a

principal and he was a major person with architect firm Gensler that like you said worked on the Goodyear HQ project and he is currently working on the CITYBLOCK Project.

 

I have to give credit to marty15 who posted the link below in the Tower City topic and that I learned about this interesting architect.

https://commercialobserver.com/2019/11/tom-vecchione-architect-gensler-vocon/

 

 

 

 

good find and interesting.

 

vis that article i see his work is connected to a major reno in times square at 229 west 43rd, novartis east hanover, nj campus and other novartis buildings -- and here is one that he worked on that should make people happy -- the tata center on bloomberg's new cornell campus on roosevelt island. not a tower, but maybe just a bit of a harbinger for another warehouse lot sw building like a training center?

 

^ also, reading that made me think they would bring on somebody else for a signature jacobs lot tower if they go that route because the guy seems more of a collaborator than a lead.

On 11/20/2019 at 1:27 PM, inlovewithCLE said:

Can they just announce that they’re staying here already and put this stuff to bed?!

 

They will as soon as all of their surveys and disclosure requests about the Jacobs/Weston lots come back without any fatal flaws discovered. That's how close they are.

2 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

They will as soon as all of their surveys and disclosure requests about the Jacobs/Weston lots come back without any fatal flaws discovered. That's how close they are.

 

WAIT, I thought they were moving to Atlanta?!?!!:!?!?!! lol

On 11/18/2019 at 3:08 PM, Frmr CLEder said:

We need to keep an eye out for surveyors.

 

Why? There has already been soil borings seen being taken.

 

On 11/18/2019 at 8:03 PM, tastybunns said:

WARNING! LENGTHY POST:

 

If anyone isn't familiar with Vocon Architects, they actually have a very large canvas here in NEO *(pun inteded)* ... Here's a few new and flipped projects they've very decently executed, but never at the scale of what SHW and R&D will hold. This will be quite the challenge for them, and by the interior/exterior photos on their website, I think they'll do a great job putting together a sleek, large, and motivational work center.

 

 

As was pointed out, Vocon was part of the team on some of the projects, not the only designer. The Cleveland Convention Center was headed by LMN Architects out of Seattle and the Associate Architect was URS. I think Vocon just did interiors on that project. They have worked with Gensler on a number of projects. Gensler is the largest architectural firm in the world. To the point they are double the size of #2 based on income.

"Why? There has already been soil borings seen being taken."

 

Are those lots completely flat?  Is there no difference in altitude between the highest point on Jacob's and the lowest point on Weston?

11 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

"Why? There has already been soil borings seen being taken."

 

Are those lots completely flat?  Is there no difference in altitude between the highest point on Jacob's and the lowest point on Weston?

 

 

According to Google Earth....

 

The highest elevations are along Superior, with 657 feet above sea level at the corner of West 6th and 656 feet at the corner of Superior and the West Roadway of Public Square. 

 

The lowest elevations are along St. Clair, with 649 feet above sea level at the corner of West 6th and 650 feet at West 3rd.

So there's at least an 8 foot disparity across the site that I suspect would require surveying. 

Edited November 22, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

Here's LiDAR data/contours from 2006, a flight for newer LiDAR data is currently underway, but it's not like much has changed with these lots in that time (courtesy of https://maps.cuyahogacounty.us/html5viewer/?viewer=ccgis )

Edited November 22, 20195 yr by GISguy

As one would expect, the altitude goes down towards the lake/river.  What do the squiggly yellow lines represent?

Edited November 22, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

10 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

As one would expect, the altitude goes down towards the lake/river.  What do the squiggly yellow lines represent?

It makes a lot more sense when you're looking at a spot with more elevation change such as a hill, but it shows the general grade of the lot and where it flows. I'll see if I can label these and send something that makes a bit more sense. Usually contours are at like 5' and 10' increments, these are at 2'. Perhaps 1' may help a bit more too. 

 

I'll get something over, if not today this weekend, not that it really will show much other than how flat Cleveland is lol

Topography lines. They show where a certain elevation exists.These look like 5' increments.

Do you think Frankfort will remain open or be closed and integrated into a continuous campus across the Weston parcels?

 

I suspect a skybridge and/or tunnel across W. 3rd.

Edited November 22, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder