I know that speculation is frowned upon particularly in the SW thread-and I’m not doing that -  but based on the information in the weekend’s NEOtrans article, if a 2nd building does rise with the main HQ tower, it could easily be as tall as 55 Public Square.  And we already know given the predicted square footage and available  footprint - that the HQ should conservatively rival 200 Public Square.  Point being, Cleveland’s western side of downtown - an often more photographed and less dense vista - will be significantly improved as a skyline perspective.  Add in a new 27 story residential tower (even in the Flats) and the rising projects in Ohio City - and the skyline should have a more extended and terraced feel on the western edge. So the next few years bode well for us skyline enthusiasts that have been wishing we could somehow add “a few new towers” to buff up downtown.  (And remember, there may be yet another major tower awaiting in the form of a new Justice Center. ). So while we await the big reveal from SW, we can relish the beginning of the slightly delayed roaring 20’s! 

11 hours ago, Toddguy said:

It is kind of sad that this 23 story building is the most prominent one in an urban area of about 1 million people.  Something like that would be nice as a mixed use secondary structure though.  Nice but something that would take a backseat to the main structure and let it shine.

 

 

 

yes, i was also assuming the hotel would be on a secondary tower, so something of that tuscon tower size perhaps.

 

however, the hotel certainly could be a part of a mixed-use primary tower to boost the height -- maybe about 15 floors if they need 150 rooms and amenities??

 

doesn't seem like they are leaning toward an ameritrust tower like height though for the main jacobs lot hq, but who knows, we can dream a bit for now.

 

Tangentially related, though the new HQ is mentioned, (with nothing particularly new to report on that front.)

Mostly just some recent SW performance news..

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2020/07/28/covid-19-dings-sherwin-williams-82-in-the-latest.html

 

Ok, let's get this project rolling! 

 

SW vans and trucks have been on the roads throughout the pandemic and my local store on Biscayne Blvd in Miami has been open. If you're stuck at home, why not spend that time doing some remodeling? That being said, beating Q2 revenue and earnings estimates should come as no surprise. But surprisingly, they also beat last year's Q2 earnings estimates; a time period devoid of a global pandemic. 

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/sherwin-williams-shw-q2-earnings-131501478.html

Edited July 29, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder

Morikis confirms my earnings thoughts above:

 

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/07/28/sherwin-williams-says-it-saw-unprecedented-demand.aspx

Edited July 30, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder

Just imagine... someone is sitting with renderings at their desk of the new headquarters... 

5 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

Just imagine... someone is sitting with renderings at their desk of the new headquarters... 

Has the primary architect ever been revealed?  I may have missed it.

4 hours ago, Htsguy said:

Has the primary architect ever been revealed?  I may have missed it.

 

Nothing has been announced, which isn't a surprise considering SHW doesn't reveal anything when they don't need to. When the renderings are released, then they'll probably "announce" it with their logo in the corner of the posted documents.

 

There is a lot to work on, and the excavation at Superior and West 6th shows they're still working on the designs. They dug to get answers.

 

BTW, my money is on Gensler. They worked with Vocon (programming architect), Welty (development consultant) and Gilbane (general contractor) on the Goodyear headquarters and SHW CEO Morikis liked that HQ. All of the same players are on SHW's HQ team, except Gensler so far.

Edited July 30, 20204 yr by KJP

25 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

 

 

There is a lot to work on, and the excavation at Superior and West 6th shows they're still working on the designs. They dug to get answers.

 

 

You are probably correct on that score.  Wonder what the question is?

55 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

Has the primary architect ever been revealed?  I may have missed it.

 

 

they probably have various massings from architects and developers they are quietly soliciting.

 

i would doubt anything final yet.

 

and why should they? they can take their time.

 

we are anxious, but for them i would think this part is the fun part!

2 hours ago, Htsguy said:

You are probably correct on that score.  Wonder what the question is?

 

Just a guess.... "Why do our geotech drills keep bumping into something solid under the parking lot?"

Okay folks, I got some real dirt on the site.

 

Literally. Dirt. ?

^^ I assume the site where they was digging?

Edited July 30, 20204 yr by Larry1962

BTW Does anyone know how and if the Real Life Building ( Former Bob Stark headquarters  )

tie into or not into SHW plans?

18 minutes ago, simplythis said:

BTW Does anyone know how and if the Real Life Building ( Former Bob Stark headquarters  )

tie into or not into SHW plans?

It doesn’t. I think (hope?) SW will probably make a “reasonable” offer to buy it and include it in their plans. I suspect the current owners will get greedy and ask for too much. As a result, SW will just build around them. Hopefully someday a good developer will renovate it and pull that awful facade off of it. 

I'm in the Gensler camp too, ever since one of their high profile architects relocated to Clevo a short while back.

My own HQ office is on K Street in DC just one block from Genlser, so I've been peering inside on the regular whenever I grab my coffee at the bagel place next door.. 

'Not that I expect there to be a model of the SW tower in the front window (like the one there now of the National Airport expansion project,) but I'd love to best some of your own stories about details overheard in elevators  - with a juicy tidbit of my own.

If it’s Gensler, they sure have no problem designing an iconic skyscraper. 

I know a lot of people at Gensler. I keep asking them if they have heard anything but haven't gotten any info. Could be that it's out of another office though where I don't know people. Projects like this usually go to one office location, and can be kept secret there from the rest of the locations. Architecture firms operate that way, where the locations almost compete against each other, and don't like to share the client with other offices. If it's the office in NYC, I don't know anyone there for example, which I'd suspect would probably be the Gensler office working on a Cleveland project . Just my  2 cents. 

 

since gensler is mentioned, their warehouse district plan sure does look a lot like what we might expect of the sw offices campus.

 

https://www.gensler.com/projects/cleveland-warehouse-district-redevelopment-master-plan?q=cleveland

 

 

On 7/30/2020 at 1:42 PM, ExPatClevGuy said:

I'm in the Gensler camp too, ever since one of their high profile architects relocated to Clevo a short while back.

My own HQ office is on K Street in DC just one block from Genlser, so I've been peering inside on the regular whenever I grab my coffee at the bagel place next door.. 

'Not that I expect there to be a model of the SW tower in the front window (like the one there now of the National Airport expansion project,) but I'd love to best some of your own stories about details overheard in elevators  - with a juicy tidbit of my own.

 

 

ha nice!

 

unfortunately the ny office is up in a building on broadway -- across the street from the colbert late show sullivan theater -- so no window gawking here.  ?

Ugh---i remember that W 6 Plan---I hated it. The buildings were not along W 6, but set back from the street. you can see it in the rendering.

 

Edited August 11, 20204 yr by ExPatClevGuy

Is anyone else here getting tired of KJP's tantric approach to this? ?

"Tantric" -- had to look that one up, and now I see why I didn't know that term!

 

It's not just this project, but others as well. A lot of structures are going to start construction about the same time. I just hope that construction firms have access to a lot of ironworkers, masons, laborers and construction materials in 2021 because these things are going to be in great demand simultaneously for multiple projects.

7 minutes ago, KJP said:

"Tantric" -- had to look that one up, and now I see why I didn't know that term!

 

It's not just this project, but others as well. A lot of structures are going to start construction about the same time. I just hope that construction firms have access to a lot of ironworkers, masons, laborers and construction materials in 2021 because these things are going to be in great demand simultaneously for multiple projects.

And the projects are - Nucleus, SHW, City Club,  Viaduct. Am I missing anyone or should i scratch of of these off

1 hour ago, simplythis said:

And the projects are - Nucleus, SHW, City Club,  Viaduct. Am I missing anyone or should i scratch of of these off

 

I replied in the random developments thread

I hope this doesn't deviate the conversation too much, but does anyone know if HQ building is spurring anything at the Renaissance Hotel?  I think @KJPyou hinted once that they were looking at the empty corner lot for expansion but are no longer doing that.  Their TripAdvisor reviews are a mess.  They've been touting an "imminent complete renovation" for years but I am not sure if anything is really happening.  It could be such a nice hotel but seems to be sadly neglected.  The prospect of Sherwin Williams including a hotel within their campus adds another layer as well.  

26 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said:

I hope this doesn't deviate the conversation too much, but does anyone know if HQ building is spurring anything at the Renaissance Hotel?  I think @KJPyou hinted once that they were looking at the empty corner lot for expansion but are no longer doing that.  Their TripAdvisor reviews are a mess.  They've been touting an "imminent complete renovation" for years but I am not sure if anything is really happening.  It could be such a nice hotel but seems to be sadly neglected.  The prospect of Sherwin Williams including a hotel within their campus adds another layer as well.  

 

I asked the hotel manager that question before the coronavirus and he said there were no expansion plans. If he was being honest, then I doubt anything is planned with their bookings down to almost nothing nowadays.

 

But there almost certainly will be a hotel, either included in the HQ project or as a spin-off to the project. There are rumors -- nothing confirmed however.

2 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Since a jail campus will need a lot of land, I think the jail could end up in the Opportunity Corridor near the CPD HQ. That might drag the sheriff's office along with it. But the jail and probably the Sheriff's office may end up just south of the Inner Belt. Since it's publicly owned (ODOT) land, it's the cheapest big piece of land close to downtown yet not in downtown. A big piece of privately owned land might  otherwise be too expensive.

 

 

Maybe part of it. Or...perhaps SHW's R&D facilities?

Is Valor Acres no longer a slam dunk?

6 minutes ago, Ineffable_Matt said:

Is Valor Acres no longer a slam dunk?

 

No, I'm saying SHW's existing R&D facilities, once emptied following their relocation to Brecksville, could be repurposed as law offices if the Justice Center was built on the Riverview parking lots.

^
 

On 8/12/2020 at 11:02 AM, mrclifton88 said:

I hope this doesn't deviate the conversation too much, but does anyone know if HQ building is spurring anything at the Renaissance Hotel?  I think @KJPyou hinted once that they were looking at the empty corner lot for expansion but are no longer doing that.  Their TripAdvisor reviews are a mess.  They've been touting an "imminent complete renovation" for years but I am not sure if anything is really happening.  It could be such a nice hotel but seems to be sadly neglected.  The prospect of Sherwin Williams including a hotel within their campus adds another layer as well.  

The amazing thing about the Renaissance Hotel is that at one point many years ago it had about a 1,000 ROOMS, but over the decades through several renovations, it's been reduced to only about 300 - 400 rooms today.   Just think how useful that many rooms would be in a few years post

pandemic in providing a convenient hotel to the thousands of trainees, executives, and partners that will visit the new SHW HQ every year?  Not to mention helping to attract larger multiple day conventions to Cleveland.

    

Edited August 13, 20204 yr by Larry1962
Typos and more details

50 minutes ago, Larry1962 said:

The amazing thing about the Renaissance Hotel is that at one point many years ago it had about a 1,000 ROOMS, but over the decades through several renovations, it's been reduced to only about 300 - 400 rooms today.   Just think how useful that many rooms would be in a few years post

pandemic in providing a convenient hotel to the thousands of trainees, executives, and partners that will visit the new SHW HQ every year?  Not to mention helping to attract larger multiple day conventions to Cleveland.

    

I thought the issue was is that when it was a 1,000 room hotel the rooms were too small for today's standards?

 

Could be wrong.

 

We do need another 500-1000 room hotel though and an expanded convention center. Maybe that can come to fruition between SW, a relocated Justice Center and a repurposed Med Mart?

Edited August 14, 20204 yr by Mov2Ohio

The renaissance will be about 200 feet closer to the new SW HQ than the previous, not sure they’d notice much more hotel usage than before.

Edited August 14, 20204 yr by w28th

2 hours ago, w28th said:

The renaissance will be about 200 feet closer to the new SW HQ than the previous, not sure they’d notice much more hotel usage than before.

Except that SW training currently done at BW, among other places, is moving downtown. SW will be using MANY more downtown hotel nights than they ever have before. 

1 hour ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Except that SW training currently done at BW, among other places, is moving downtown. SW will be using MANY more downtown hotel nights than they ever have before. 

 

Bingo. I've noted that the training activities that will be relocated downtown will require an average of more than 100 additional hotel rooms per weeknight.

 

There is increased interest in providing more hotel space as part of and/or next to the new SHW HQ. One of them is rumored to be a five-star brand.

 

And I've heard some more information that this story....

http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/05/sherwin-williams-hq-may-be-citys-fourth.html

....may be conservative.

 

Yes, it could still be the city's fourth-tallest tower. But it may in fact be taller. It *might* even rival Key depending on floor widths, heights and what decorative crown (if any) is added to the top.

 

8 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Except that SW training currently done at BW, among other places, is moving downtown. SW will be using MANY more downtown hotel nights than they ever have before. 

 

100%. The need to consolidate training, and have nearby hotels/entertainment, played a huge factor in where the HQ ultimately ended up. 

6 hours ago, KJP said:

Yes, it could still be the city's fourth-tallest tower. But it may in fact be taller. It *might* even rival Key depending on floor widths, heights and what decorative crown (if any) is added to the top.

 

 

Let's Go!  1,000ft club here we come..... maybe... possibly... hopefully!?!  ?

"There is increased interest in providing more hotel space as part of and/or next to the new SHW HQ. One of them is rumored to be a five-star brand."

 

I would love to see a JW Marriott built here.  We're due for one. 

8 hours ago, KJP said:

Yes, it could still be the city's fourth-tallest tower. But it may in fact be taller. It *might* even rival Key depending on floor widths, heights and what decorative crown (if any) is added to the top.

 

How about a restaurant/lounge/observation deck on top also. ?

Taller than KEY? That would be wild. Truthfully though I’d rather make sure the entire parking crater is filled in with active uses instead of all concentrated in one tower. Now if that can be achieved AND include a taller tower then I’m all for it. I wonder if they go that tall if there would be any possibility for public access like an observation deck? Lots of interesting possibilities to this. Hope we don’t have to wait much longer to find out. 

One rumor is 45-55 stories. If that's true, that also means they aren't ready for submitting to Planning Commission yet.

I know many posters are going to want to hunt me down and stick who knows what under my fingernails, but I would rather see a building in the 40 stories range if it means, in the short term or contemporaneously, the Weston lots are significantly developed in the first Phase rather than just the placement of a massive parking garage on that parcel.  I am not a true believer in Phase 2 and 3 developments.  Too often seem to take years to happen.

32 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I know many posters are going to want to hunt me down and stick who knows what under my fingernails, but I would rather see a building in the 40 stories range if it means, in the short term or contemporaneously, the Weston lots are significantly developed in the first Phase rather than just the placement of a massive parking garage on that parcel.  I am not a true believer in Phase 2 and 3 developments.  Too often seem to take years to happen.

 

... JK I agree

30 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I know many posters are going to want to hunt me down and stick who knows what under my fingernails, but I would rather see a building in the 40 stories range if it means, in the short term or contemporaneously, the Weston lots are significantly developed in the first Phase rather than just the placement of a massive parking garage on that parcel.  I am not a true believer in Phase 2 and 3 developments.  Too often seem to take years to happen.

 

I agree with you, especially since the Cleveland Union Terminal Group/Tower City Center STILL isn't completed 100 years after it was first planned.

 

But at the same time, I think SHW wants to keep some of the Weston lots undeveloped for future expansion. SHW was one of four large companies that occupied the Landmark Office Buildings. They eventually expanded into the whole thing (almost), before overflowing into other buildings nearby and around the city. I don't think they want to do that again.

 

35 minutes ago, Htsguy said:

I know many posters are going to want to hunt me down and stick who knows what under my fingernails, but I would rather see a building in the 40 stories range if it means, in the short term or contemporaneously, the Weston lots are significantly developed in the first Phase rather than just the placement of a massive parking garage on that parcel.  I am not a true believer in Phase 2 and 3 developments.  Too often seem to take years to happen.

The Urban Ohio posse is already coming for you @Htsguy( kidding).  Just thinking out loud with no inside sources, but from what we know about the more conservative character of SHW, I don’t think there’s much of a chance that their new tower eclipses Key Tower for tallest.  (Not that @KJPsaid that) But based on their space needs for now and importantly, the future, I wouldn’t be shocked to see this HQ rise above the Terminal Tower. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see it wind up being the 4th tallest in the city.  One things obvious, it will dramatically impact the skyline. 

27 minutes ago, CleveFan said:

The Urban Ohio posse is already coming for you @Htsguy( kidding).  Just thinking out loud with no inside sources, but from what we know about the more conservative character of SHW, I don’t think there’s much of a chance that their new tower eclipses Key Tower for tallest.  (Not that @KJPsaid that) But based on their space needs for now and importantly, the future, I wouldn’t be shocked to see this HQ rise above the Terminal Tower. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see it wind up being the 4th tallest in the city.  One things obvious, it will dramatically impact the skyline. 

Yep- here’s a view which will definitely change...

 

 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

agree with you, especially since the Cleveland Union Terminal Group/Tower City Center STILL isn't completed 100 years after it was first planned.

 

Do you have a link to those plans (even if redirecting to another thread)?  I'm curious to know what is missing, and I doubt that I'm alone in that.  ?