To put an end to the debate, below is part of the SW Press Release that appears to have been overlooked:

 

"Sherwin-Williams will work proactively with the cities, community leaders and trade partners to positively impact the local economy by providing workforce opportunities for the community, including awarding contracts to minority-owned and female-owned businesses, as well as small businesses."

4 hours ago, JB said:

It’s like you guys want this thread locked. Do you just totally ignore some posts?

 

Definitely not attacking you, but I think this thought process is part of the Race issue in America. Go talk about that issue over there if you want, so we can focus on this here. The conversation is discarded and nothing changes.

 

As far as the poster above who wanted to specifically mention firms that could fill the rolls given, there are multiple for each of those roles, except for probably the Lead GC Welty/Gilbane and even amongst those two, Gilbane is probably the one with real skyscraper experience. Locally Ozanne could have been a local minority owned GC to have partnered with Gilbane on the project.

Ah that picture posted by KJP got me really excited - I thought there were solar panels on the roof of the Renaissance Hotel at first.  I hope SW takes a green approach to both the HQ and the research campus, though locating that in the suburbs likely negates any environmental benefits they could add in. If they really want another HQ for 100 years, I think they'll do a decent job on that front.

1 hour ago, Mov2Ohio said:

 

Definitely not attacking you, but I think this thought process is part of the Race issue in America. Go talk about that issue over there if you want, so we can focus on this here. The conversation is discarded and nothing changes.

 

As far as the poster above who wanted to specifically mention firms that could fill the rolls given, there are multiple for each of those roles, except for probably the Lead GC Welty/Gilbane and even amongst those two, Gilbane is probably the one with real skyscraper experience. Locally Ozanne could have been a local minority owned GC to have partnered with Gilbane on the project.

Because I don’t want the topic shut down? And here we are. Off topic. And whenever you put a but after saying a statement it usually negates it.

Edited September 18, 20204 yr by JB

You know what's definitely off topic is a page of arguing about what is or isn't off topic!  If things are getting off topic, then a moderator will put it back on topic or lock the thread as necessary- no need for forumers to go back and forth on the issue.  As for the discussion of the recent letter from the black community leaders and minority contractor participation, it is on topic in this thread as long as we keep it tightly to the topic of the design and construction of the SW HQ.

9 hours ago, KJP said:

So, from what I understand, Pickard Chilton was hired recently. It's not like Welty Gilbane or Vocon which were hired almost a year ago but not announced until this week. Pickard Chilton wasn't hired a while ago and then kept secret during that time. They were JUST hired. So that firm hasn't done much work at all with this project yet. Vocon, which I reported on numerous times, was hired to do the interior work/programming. They have their space needs information pretty well understood. But how this global headquarters will fill out SHW's newly acquired downtown properties is not well understood at all. There is some understanding of how the former Jacobs Lot might fill out which is why there are sources saying this could be a 45-55 story tower. But how things will fill out the former Weston lots is still very much up in the air. In other words, we're months away from seeing any renderings.

So isn’t it very possible that some of what we’re assuming will wind up in an HQ tower on the Jacobs lot could actually be located in a second shorter “tower” on the superblock? If that questioned can be reasonably answered “yes” It strongly suggests we might not be getting a 45-55 story tower on Public Square but rather, some combination of shorter towers - perhaps one peaking around 30 stories.   I like the possibility of a second substantial tower, but I’d be disappointed, at this point, if the main HQ tower was “only” 450 feet or so. 
I’d love to hear some clarification, rebuttal or confirmation to this. 

I'm not particularly concerned about height. My main concern is how the buildings will interact with the public at the street level. Will shorter structures and garages on the Weston lots feature ground level retail? Will the facade be broken up and visually interesting? Will the tower be designed as an insular fortress or will it be designed with the pedestrian experience in mind? I hope SHW does its best to recognize the city around it and better connect the warehouse district to public square but I have my worries.

Edited September 18, 20204 yr by tykaps

First and foremost, to those providing insight from your roles in the design/construction industry, thank you for being here - appreciated more than you know.

 

Regarding the engagement with minority communities, as X stated - it's a timely issue, but also a sensitive one. That said, it's not rocket science to think before you post and decide if you're posting something that will take the thread off topic.

7 hours ago, tykaps said:

I'm not particularly concerned about height. My main concern is how the buildings will interact with the public at the street level. Will shorter structures and garages on the Weston lots feature ground level retail? Will the facade be broken up and visually interesting? Will the tower be designed as an insular fortress or will it be designed with the pedestrian experience in mind? I hope SHW does its best to recognize the city around it and better connect the warehouse district to public square but I have my worries.

Maybe that's a benefit of having R&D out in Brecksville. They can build their top secret fortress out there. Let the public walk through (hopefully) courtyards and internal restaurants and whatnot. 

34 minutes ago, GISguy said:

Maybe that's a benefit of having R&D out in Brecksville. They can build their top secret fortress out there. Let the public walk through (hopefully) courtyards and internal restaurants and whatnot. 

Continuing to lose jobs to the suburbs like this example of the R&D going to Brecksville has no benefit whatsoever.

4 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Continuing to lose jobs to the suburbs like this example of the R&D going to Brecksville has no benefit whatsoever.

Restating the same post all the time has no benefit to this forum whatsoever.

7 hours ago, tykaps said:

I'm not particularly concerned about height. My main concern is how the buildings will interact with the public at the street level. Will shorter structures and garages on the Weston lots feature ground level retail? Will the facade be broken up and visually interesting? Will the tower be designed as an insular fortress or will it be designed with the pedestrian experience in mind? I hope SHW does its best to recognize the city around it and better connect the warehouse district to public square but I have my worries.

All valid concerns and important that they are addressed.  I will add to this "concern" list.  I hope the inevitable bridge between the Weston lot where most of the parking will probably be and the Jacobs lot will have a lot of attention paid to it during design.  Dare I hope for something iconic rather than some lipstick on a pig.  Of course my preference would be for no bridge at all unless it is incorporated into some type of unique second floor retail and/or pedestrian experience.

 

^Or no bridge- maybe they could tunnel underneath W. 3rd for employee access.  It's been done before here, and could be done again. The tunnel underneath Lakeside connecting the Huntington garage to the Justice Center is an example.

33 minutes ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

^Or no bridge- maybe they could tunnel underneath W. 3rd for employee access.  It's been done before here, and could be done again. The tunnel underneath Lakeside connecting the Huntington garage to the Justice Center is an example.

Agree.  That would be great.  But my gut tells me that a nondescript bridge would be much cheaper.  My gut also tells me that "cheaper" is very important to the company.  Or should I say cost consciousness.  

 

Edited September 18, 20204 yr by Htsguy

1 hour ago, Htsguy said:

All valid concerns and important that they are addressed.  I will add to this "concern" list.  I hope the inevitable bridge between the Weston lot where most of the parking will probably be and the Jacobs lot will have a lot of attention paid to it during design.  Dare I hope for something iconic rather than some lipstick on a pig.  Of course my preference would be for no bridge at all unless it is incorporated into some type of unique second floor retail and/or pedestrian experience.

 

 

I don't know how well this would translate to Cleveland and Public Square (weather, traffic, open-air design...), but that description reminded me of the Brickell City Centre in Miami, which spans across S Miami Ave, leading to more shopping and their Eighth Street Metromover station. It struck me as way better than the Skybridges leading to the Casino or found on CCF campus.

 

https://goo.gl/maps/d7PHGsdyE6nfyLBg6

^ While certainly nice, the weather here in Miami is conducive to that kind of open-air structure at Brickell City Centre. Cleveland's winter is not as hospitable; the exceptions being Isaias and Sally-like Hurricanes and Tropical Storms here in Miami.

 

I would also hope that a tunnel is constructed vs a bridge, along with W. 3rd Street crosswalks to provide both underground and street-level options. Increased street level foot traffic would be good for surrounding street level establishments, while a tunnel would eliminate yet another unsightly downtown bridge.

Edited September 19, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder

I will offer this: If a ped-bridge is one of their solutions, for once it won't block a lovely view into cool areas of downtown. 

The view from the streets and sidewalks here is frankly quite worthy of being covered up.  There are no interesting axis points to be seen anywhere. 

 

If a bridge - then at least a nice one, please.  An open air design like the one from Miami as shown above will get plenty of use many days of the year in Cleveland. An open deck for nice weather (of which there is plenty) would be a plus and an architectural opportunity too.

 

The open air second level in Miami wasn't placed as it was simply because their winter weather is mild. It was placed for enjoyment. There are days when it doesn't get used, I'm sure, due to heat, rain and storms.

 

Disclaimer:  I am not a proponent of pedestrian bridges, but sadly for Cleveland, it looks like the ship of resistance to them has sailed.

 

P.S. It looks like the worst sufferings about a bridge installation will be had by occupants in the the lower to mid floors of 55 Public Square.

Edited September 19, 20204 yr by ExPatClevGuy
clarification

Kohn Pedersen Fox has always been a favorite of mine.  Would love to see something like their supertall designs, but on a smaller scale obviously for this tower.  Pickard Chilton is just as edgy in their designs so I'm excited to see what they come up with.

 

https://www.kpf.com/projects/type/supertall

Not sure edgy is the right word.

Bombadier to captain, orders received and understood. Approaching target....

  

 

@KJP better type fast before somebody passes out from hyperventilating. 

I'm writing, I'm writing! ?  In the meantime, enjoy the music to which I am writing. The title is apropos... ? 

 

 

 

Me on UO now

 

If I'm interpreting KJP's words here correctly, he said "tall" - however, tall spelled backwards is L-L-A-T. This means that @KJP is actually telling us to look L-A-T-erally to the L-eft of the original idea we had in our minds. As such, staring at the Sherwin Williams site from Public Square, the geographic center of Cleveland, when I look to the Left laterally, I see the Renaissance. Therefore, KJP is actually signaling us to breaking news coming from the hotel, where a globalist cabal is meeting and plans to take over Cleveland. 

 

- Q (Probably)  

OK, my fault for increasing expectations possibly greater than what they might actually be!! ? ?  Almost done.....

 

FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 2020

Sherwin-Williams HQ height to "rival Key Tower"

 

For those who wanted another skyscraper in Cleveland that approaches "supertall" status, you just might get your wish.

 

Ten days ago, Sherwin-Williams Co. (SHW) announced it is restarting development of its global headquarters plus research and development facilities (HQ+R&D). As part of its announcement, SHW confirmed insider information NEOtrans has been reporting for nearly a year, including SHW's HQ+R&D construction manager is a new partnership called Welty Gilbane. It was formed last year by Welty-Testa Builders, LLC of Akron and the Gilbane Building Co., a global firm with offices in Cleveland.

 

Welty Gilbane is already reaching out to materials suppliers in Cleveland and around the country to determine their availability, capacity and costs. For Welty Gilbane to learn that information, they have to give suppliers a sense of the scope of SHW's HQ+R&D project.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/09/sherwin-williams-hq-height-to-rival-key.html

20 minutes ago, KJP said:

FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 2020

Sherwin-Williams HQ height to "rival Key Tower"

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/09/sherwin-williams-hq-height-to-rival-key.html

 

I love the idea of the three tallest skyscrapers in Ohio, and four of the top five, all being on Cleveland's Public Square.  Mind you, 200 Public Square is only seven feet shorter than Great American Tower in Cincinnati, with the latter including 170' of architectural crown to reach that height. In other words, 200 Public Square's roof is about 160' taller than Great American's.  I feel like the owners should build a penthouse on top of 200 Public Square to get it back to third tallest in Ohio (until it gets passed by SHW).

Well done again, @KJP !!!

 

It's exciting to hear that we might see renderings sooner than later, I can't wait to see how it transform's our skyline!!!

 

As always, I love to hear about the height.  If it's close to Key's building size, I hope they give it the extra floor, ceiling height or spire it needs to hit 1,001ft.... I mean, if we're that close.  Why not, right? ?

 

This is great news.  Looking forward to what the future holds!

Edited September 25, 20204 yr by NR

For those interested, I tried to base the massings used by @KJP (thanks for the article!) on previous Pickard Chilton designs, some of which I have attached below for anyone's interest/discussion. along with that are some supplementary shots of my own the massing and height comparisons for kicks. The massing is a little more detailed than I usually do (still orange though), but it is nowhere near official or professional. I hope however that you all enjoy what I can come up with at least just a little until the real pros enter the chat haha.

 

And sorry in advance for the image dump ?

 

I guess what I'm getting at is that I love Pickard Chilton's designs so far, so here's hoping that we get something similar yet unique that matches well with CLE. Height-wise there are many ways to make this work visually that will have a profound impact. For me, the more glass the better!

 

Edited September 25, 20204 yr by Geowizical

That's great work Geowizical. Out of curiosity is the floor area in your massing about a million square feet, or is that not possible to estimate?

Just now, Mendo said:

That's great work Geowizical. Out of curiosity is the floor area in your massing about a million square feet, or is that not possible to estimate?

I'll try the best I can to estimate and get back to you on that!

Okay that wasn't too difficult actually

 

Here's the breakdown on my massing:

Floor Size for this building is, on average, 21,600 sqft.

Divide the reported 1,000,000 sqft. by 21,600 and you get, would you look at that, 46 floors in my massing, which goes right along with what we've been hearing thus far.

Let's just assume 16 ft ceilings for kicks, so 16 ft * 46 stories = 736 ft of office space itself, so either you could add more than 46 stories to fill the space, or you get about 100 ft worth of mechanical, crown, etc. on top.

 

So I guess you could say this massing is, at the very least, realistic ?

 

Edited September 25, 20204 yr by Geowizical

This is all wonderful news and both @KJP's and @Geowizical's contributions are top-notch as usual as well.

 

While joining the 1,000' club on this one would of course be cool, I think now is a good time to point out that cities which have NO 1,000 ft. tall inhabited building include:

 

• Tokyo
• Singapore
• Miami
• Toronto
• Seattle
• Mumbai (as of this time two years ago)
• Philadelphia (as of this time four years ago)

So even from a skyline perspective, 1,000 ft. isn't everything.

16 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

This is all wonderful news and both @KJP's and @Geowizical's contributions are top-notch as usual as well.

 

While joining the 1,000' club on this one would of course be cool, I think now is a good time to point out that cities which have NO 1,000 ft. tall inhabited building include:

 

• Tokyo
• Singapore
• Miami
• Toronto
• Seattle
• Mumbai (as of this time two years ago)
• Philadelphia (as of this time four years ago)

So even from a skyline perspective, 1,000 ft. isn't everything.

I will continue to cross my fingers for an HQ that's 1000ft on the dot AND a hotel at least 200ft tall. Why? Because I'm greedy & my Id is running out of control. In all seriousness, I think it's possible. Consider that there may be a small plaza fronting Public Square (unless that was never a realistic possibility), high floor heights to let more natural light into the building, and a decorative feature atop the building (which Pickard Chilton seems fond of IMO).

^I’d agree. I would think 18k-20k sqft floorplates is more realistic than using the whole footprint up.  That would put it at 55 floors at 18k.  I guess the higher the building the more slack cut for SHW to focus on a walkable campus at street level.  I wonder if wind will be considered in the the final shape and design with several tall buildings so close to each other. 

  I would think a tall design might need to be put through a wind tunnel to see what the ground effects will be like. 

Okay, it’s a stretch yet tangentially sorta-ish on topic; on September 4th I posted a photo thread from a cruise on the Goodtime III.

 

As usual I’m not always in photos because I’m behind the camera but for whatever reason my husband said ‘let me get your picture’ at this spot.

 

Just now realized - the SHW tower will be filling the spot just above my Burning River Pale Ale (and their logo!). So was this my subliminal way of suggesting SHW light a fire under it? ? ? #coincidence? 

3 hours ago, KJP said:

 

FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 25, 2020

Sherwin-Williams HQ height to "rival Key Tower"

 

For those who wanted another skyscraper in Cleveland that approaches "supertall" status, you just might get your wish.

 

Ten days ago, Sherwin-Williams Co. (SHW) announced it is restarting development of its global headquarters plus research and development facilities (HQ+R&D). As part of its announcement, SHW confirmed insider information NEOtrans has been reporting for nearly a year, including SHW's HQ+R&D construction manager is a new partnership called Welty Gilbane. It was formed last year by Welty-Testa Builders, LLC of Akron and the Gilbane Building Co., a global firm with offices in Cleveland.

 

Welty Gilbane is already reaching out to materials suppliers in Cleveland and around the country to determine their availability, capacity and costs. For Welty Gilbane to learn that information, they have to give suppliers a sense of the scope of SHW's HQ+R&D project.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2020/09/sherwin-williams-hq-height-to-rival-key.html

Happy Birthday to me!

9/25/56

^That's a nice birthday present. Also, Happy Birthday....the big 6-4!

2 minutes ago, Pugu said:

^That's a nice birthday present. Also, Happy Birthday....the big 6-4!

Wonderful birthday gift! Thanks Ken.

As I read everyone’s comments and wishes, I’d like to add my two cents to the discussion. Since it was announced that Pickard Chilton has been retained as the design architect for SHW I have had the opportunity to do considerable research on the the firm, it’s principals and their general approach to design. As a result I have become convinced that we will indeed see a truly iconic HQ that will be something we can all be proud of. I came away convinced that this firm will be very sensitive to the historical significance of the HQ site and importance of this complex to Cleveland. I am really excited to see how they will incorporate the design into the overall context and flow of Public Square and the Warehouse District. For instance, I would not be surprised to see the introduction of an arcade (something Cleveland is famous for) with shops and restaurants linking Public Square through to St Clair and the Warehouse District. 

Heh, I can dream, right?!!!
 

 

I love this SW "Building Our Future" video.

 

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/buildingourfuture/

4 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Wonderful birthday gift! Thanks Ken.

Happy Birthday fellow Libra - mine’s on Sunday so I’m going to share  this as the best possible birthday present a Cleveland development fan could ever get.  Thanks, as always to Ken for the scoop and writing @Geowizicalfor the massing work. One thought about the height - I’m not particularly rooting for a “Supertall” since it looks like this tower will eclipse the Terminal Tower - I’m thrilled if it  becomes 2nd tallest in the city.  However, @Geowizical’s massing and examples of similar projects by the firm show a non- tapered top. If the design is tapered slightly  towards the top, that could necessitate additional height to meet the required square footage. An example that is even more gigantic but shows that sort of design is the new One Vanderbilt in NYC. 
But ultimately I’m most curious as to how this design will represent a resurgent Cleveland for the 21st century while showing empathy to its world class neighbors on Public Square.  Mazel Tov Cleveland! 

Edited September 26, 20204 yr by CleveFan
Mistake

4 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I love this SW "Building Our Future" video.

 

https://www.sherwin-williams.com/buildingourfuture/

I love it too! But what I found especially interesting was the inclusion of a shot of the Shard, a 1,000 feet high, 603,000 square foot skyscraper in London with which Sherwin-Williams was involved.  Obviously, the building made quite an impression on the brass at SW, based on its inclusion in the new short promo video.  Could it offer the big clue about the design of the new world HQ to be built in Cleveland? 

1 hour ago, CleveFan said:

I love it too! But what I found especially interesting was the inclusion of a shot of the Shard, a 1,000 feet high, 603,000 square foot skyscraper in London with which Sherwin-Williams was involved.  Obviously, the building made quite an impression on the brass at SW, based on its inclusion in the new short promo video.  Could it offer the big clue about the design of the new world HQ to be built in Cleveland? 

 

The Shard was in the video for a quarter of a second. So was the Golden Gate Bridge. Both are projects that used SW products, so it makes complete sense that they would be included. I wouldn’t take this as a sort of big clue—it’s a simple promo video rather than an Easter egg filled roadmap of hints.  

^i know -Was Just Havin’ a little fun! 

Edited September 26, 20204 yr by CleveFan

18 hours ago, Geowizical said:

Okay that wasn't too difficult actually

 

Here's the breakdown on my massing:

Floor Size for this building is, on average, 21,600 sqft.

Divide the reported 1,000,000 sqft. by 21,600 and you get, would you look at that, 46 floors in my massing, which goes right along with what we've been hearing thus far.

Let's just assume 16 ft ceilings for kicks, so 16 ft * 46 stories = 736 ft of office space itself, so either you could add more than 46 stories to fill the space, or you get about 100 ft worth of mechanical, crown, etc. on top.

 

So I guess you could say this massing is, at the very least, realistic ?

 

 

 

To further jump on how realistic the rendering is, the Devon Energy Center (with which I am clearly obsessed) has a 746 ft. top floor and 844 ft. architectural peak. 

Upon reflection, it couldn't be more appropriate and symbolic than to have a Connecticut-based architectural firm lead the design of what may constitute the most important downtown Cleveland development in decades.

Edited September 26, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder

14 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Upon reflection, it couldn't be more appropriate and symbolic than to have a Connecticut-based architectural firm lead the design of what may constitute the most important downtown Cleveland development in decades.

Long live the Western Reserve!

44 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

To further jump on how realistic the rendering is, the Devon Energy Center (with which I am clearly obsessed) has a 746 ft. top floor and 844 ft. architectural peak. 

The Devon Energy Center is indeed a great looking building, without question.  I could definitely see something like that in Downtown Cleveland.

i think we’ll be getting something that looks even better than the previous plan for a tower (Amazon bid), originally made by SW per @KJP.

 

2020 has sucked so much- this is the best news the region has received all year ?