Looks like there is some development going on at the old Payless as well as down Race a block south to sixth street.  A lot of old and somewhat shady Race Street businesses have closed and signs note new development soon.

14 hours ago, troeros said:

Hopefully something can be done with that space soon. 

 

 I was driving at 7pm from the CBD, I've never seen it more dead. I always complained about the CBD looking like a ghost town, but this is on a different level. It's sad, because it's nearing christmas. We should have way more high end shops and businesses with holiday window displays, and expressing the holiday spirit. Instead, they are all bustling at the kenwood mall, and downtown (aside from OTR) is dead as a door nail. 

 

The only people I was able to see are passed out heroin addicts sleeping on the corner of the street in the cradle position. Pathetic. 

 

 

I can only guess you weren't downtown circa 2000.  The level of street activity is so much better now in the evenings than it was 20 years ago that it's not even comparable.  And it's not like Tiffany's or Macy's were staying open in the evenings to draw crowds.  If anything, those department store/retailing tracts have always been traffic killers in the evening, because they weren't open.  The cumulative effect of the rebirth of downtown dining and the end of the skywalks has made it so much better in the evenings that it's still light years ahead.    

 

I agree it would have been nice to be proactive.  My vote would be to try and consolidate some of the very nice, successful local retailers already downtown into a more concentrated area.  Things like Bromwell, the print store on 4th street, Richter and Phillips, etc. all seem to do quite well downtown.  Unfortunately, those places are also now in good positions where they currently are, so it's very unlikely.  But that, to me, is the kind of thing we should be looking for, rather than a silver bullet of getting a Nordstrom or whatever downtown.  

 

That, or get an Apple store in there and make a go of it that way.  (Wishful thinking.)   

4 minutes ago, bfwissel said:

Looks like there is some development going on at the old Payless as well as down Race a block south to sixth street.  A lot of old and somewhat shady Race Street businesses have closed and signs note new development soon.

That will be in the new boutique hotel by Vision Hospitality out of Chattanooga. They bought the Jewelers Exchange building from the Cranley Family. Its suppose to be about 94 rooms, with a restaurant. 

^ Correct, that Payless primarily closed because the building got purchased and the new owners wanted the space for the hotel. With that being said, I don't know how well their business was doing.

According to people we spoke to at the downtown Payless, they were going to close anyway, but the timeline was shrunk by quite a bit due to the building being sold.

This crazy over-achieving family from Bellevue, KY somehow got away with flying a drone over Fountain Square on what appears to be a typical night sometime this month for their crazy over-achieving documentation of their over-achievements.   The drone footage begins around 14:40, and is pretty dramatic:

 

 

So apparently there's a whole network of home-schooling families out there who network online and create big spectacles out of their family outings to one-up one another. 

 

So in short, there is apparently an urbanohio.com out there for home school families, no doubt with drama queen families, lurker families, troll families?

 

 

 

 

So hipster families who homeschool their children are trying to be Casey Niestat?

Welcome to YouTube. No reason to be derisive.

3CDC has purchased the former Macy's building.

This is good news. I trust 3CDC to do something with this space a lot quicker then the old ownership group that had way too many companies involved. 

24 minutes ago, taestell said:

3CDC has purchased the former Macy's building.

 

Incredible news!

 

Judging by how 3cdc spaces out there projects, I imagine we will hear some type of development announcement later this Fall (after the kroger building is finished?). I'm hoping this will be 3cdc tallest project yet, and can go over 40 stories. 

I hope this take priority over the 5th and Plum lot.  This is far more important.

A week or two I had the thought that 5/3 might want to build a new tower and move across the square. 

3 minutes ago, JoeHarmon said:

I hope this take priority over the 5th and Plum lot.  This is far more important.

 

3cdc is big enough where they can handle multiple big projects now. This is 3cdc 2.0

weren't the air rights over Macy's owned by a different organization than the building itself?

Quote

weren't the air rights over Macy's owned by a different organization that the building itself?

 

EDIT: 5/3 still owns the air rights above the building (per the Enquirer article).

Edited January 8, 20196 yr by The_Cincinnati_Kid

I hope 3cdc can perhaps find a way to create a mini shopping district with this project. Our city badly needs clothing retail options. 

 

It's really embaressing to say your a world class city that people must visit, but when people come to actually visit and want to shop they cant because we essentially have no shopping  (except saks which is just stupidly overpriced) district like most world class top tier cities have. 

 

 If cincinnati wants to be credible as a top class city, we desperately need a fashion district that the likes of all major american cities have. 

^NYC, Chicago, etc all have these, but does Pittsburgh, Sacramento, Cleveland, Columbus, St. Louis, Nashville, Phoenix, etc all have these? I don't know that they do.

 

The biggest issue with putting these high-end shopping districts in smaller cities is that you need the local population to support them. International tourists simply aren't coming to Cincinnati in the numbers that would support these businesses.

1 minute ago, ryanlammi said:

^NYC, Chicago, etc all have these, but does Pittsburgh, Sacramento, Cleveland, Columbus, St. Louis, Nashville, Phoenix, etc all have these? I don't know that they do.

 

The biggest issue with putting these high-end shopping districts in smaller cities is that you need the local population to support them. International tourists simply aren't coming to Cincinnati in the numbers that would support these businesses.

And would have to be some place fairly reasonable in price and brand new to the city. I would say uniqlo would be awesome because the closest one I believe is in Chicago. 

 

More info if you don't have Business Courier access...

 

Downtown Macy's building sold to 3CDC for $7.5M

Randy Tucker and Alexander Coolidge, Cincinnati EnquirerPublished 11:04 a.m. ET Jan. 8, 2019 | Updated 3:52 p.m. ET Jan. 8, 2019

 

At the end of its run, the Macy's store Downtown was known for its sales.

Liquidation signs throughout the store boasted discounts of 30 percent, 60 percent –even as much as 70 percent of some clearance items.

But the store itself may have been the greatest deal of them all, changing hands Tuesday for a whopping 80 percent discount to the building's assessed value 20 years ago, according to Hamilton County property records.

Cincinnati Development Group, a consortium of owners, sold the building at Fifth and Vine streets to the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., or 3CDC, for $7.5 million.

 

MORE

4 hours ago, troeros said:

I hope 3cdc can perhaps find a way to create a mini shopping district with this project. Our city badly needs clothing retail options. 

 

It's really embaressing to say your a world class city that people must visit, but when people come to actually visit and want to shop they cant because we essentially have no shopping  (except saks which is just stupidly overpriced) district like most world class top tier cities have. 

 

 If cincinnati wants to be credible as a top class city, we desperately need a fashion district that the likes of all major american cities have. 

 

The City of Cincinnati collects $0.00 per year in sales tax. 70% of our city's collections are  from income taxes, paid by people who live or work in the City.  

7 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

^NYC, Chicago, etc all have these, but does Pittsburgh, Sacramento, Cleveland, Columbus, St. Louis, Nashville, Phoenix, etc all have these? I don't know that they do.

 

The biggest issue with putting these high-end shopping districts in smaller cities is that you need the local population to support them. International tourists simply aren't coming to Cincinnati in the numbers that would support these businesses.

 

Agreed. I mentioned something to the effect of Cincinnati and Fountain Square needing to let the past be the past and just let these big box, higher-end retailers leave downtown gracefully and use this portion of downtown for something else on a different forum that isn't as city focused. People assumed I hated Cincinnati and want it to die. Truly only top-tier cities and major tourist cities get these fashion sections or destinations, neither of which I see happening to Cincinnati in our lifetime. The future will be online shopping or boutique/unique retail destinations. OTR is proving this form of retail works in urban formats. 

 

8 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

A week or two I had the thought that 5/3 might want to build a new tower and move across the square. 

 

I personally have always thought that Kroger would be the next company to build a new HQ in Cincinnati. As the company grows and becomes increasingly more tech focused with the demographics associated with tech industries, surely they must need a larger and more updated space than their current HQ. And being on Fountain Square would allow them to be more visible in the more heavily trafficked parts of downtown. 

46 minutes ago, Lucas_uLsac said:

 

Agreed. I mentioned something to the effect of Cincinnati and Fountain Square needing to let the past be the past and just let these big box, higher-end retailers leave downtown gracefully and use this portion of downtown for something else on a different forum that isn't as city focused. People assumed I hated Cincinnati and want it to die. Truly only top-tier cities and major tourist cities get these fashion sections or destinations, neither of which I see happening to Cincinnati in our lifetime. The future will be online shopping or boutique/unique retail destinations. OTR is proving this form of retail works in urban formats. 

 

 

I personally have always thought that Kroger would be the next company to build a new HQ in Cincinnati. As the company grows and becomes increasingly more tech focused with the demographics associated with tech industries, surely they must need a larger and more updated space than their current HQ. And being on Fountain Square would allow them to be more visible in the more heavily trafficked parts of downtown. 

 

 

I disagree. I whole heartedly believe that OTR will allow Cincinnati to become New Orleans of the Midwest in the next 2 decades. Assuming the gentrification will continue north of liberty.

 

I truly believe people will visit our old historic otr breweries the same way they explore the bourbon trail in Louisville. 

 

OTR is a LEGIT triple threat that will allow Cincy in the future to have a real strong uptick in national and international tourism. I honestly believe because of otr we will be put on the map in the 15-20 years. There is almost nothing like it in America and is probably one of the top 5 most unique urban neighborhoods in America. It's that much of a jewel.  

 

Edited January 9, 20196 yr by troeros

8 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

^NYC, Chicago, etc all have these, but does Pittsburgh, Sacramento, Cleveland, Columbus, St. Louis, Nashville, Phoenix, etc all have these? I don't know that they do.

 

The biggest issue with putting these high-end shopping districts in smaller cities is that you need the local population to support them. International tourists simply aren't coming to Cincinnati in the numbers that would support these businesses.

 

Um, not to disparage any of these cities, but I don't think these are the downtowns we should be emulating, save for mayyyybe Pittsburgh or I suppose Nashville (ugh). 

 

I get what you're saying about the ability for retail to succeed in mid-sized cities' downtowns, but there are several cities about our size or a bit larger that have a better downtown retail scene than Cincinnati. Portland, San Diego, Denver, Minneapolis, hell, even Indianapolis all have pretty lively retail districts downtown. I don't know if Cincy will ever get department stores to open again downtown, as that business model is generally hurting now, but there is no reason downtown couldn't support more retail, generally. The various boutiques that have opened in OTR have been a great retail addition to the city, but I think the CBD could definitely support some larger format chains, too. Places like Ross or Marshalls or something would probably do very well Downtown. 

I don't want big box stores. I want smaller footprint stores like H and M, Express, Zara, etc. Similar but slightly large to stuff in the kenwood mall.

 

Big box retail stores are by and large dead because of Amazon.

 

Why would those type of places open in Downtown instead of Kenwood? If you work for Uniqlo or Zara (both of which have no stores in the Cincy market) would you open Downtown or in Kenwood? Even the city you want to emulate, New Orleans, doesn’t have much in the way of chain retail downtown. 

11 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

A week or two I had the thought that 5/3 might want to build a new tower and move across the square. 

 

5/3 continues to invest and update their tower. They are about to embark on some changes to the ground floor and part of the Square it owns. The planning and design process predates the horrific shooting incident of a couple of months ago, but look for them to reclaim part of the Square that is on their property and close off the pedestrian tunnel to Walnut Street to tighten up access to the building and surrounding spaces.

Edited January 9, 20196 yr by mcmicken

^Infamously, the line workers didn't think the Norwood plant was going to be shut down because they were putting a new roof on the thing. 

 

 

I feel like closing that tunnel is a bad idea, but perhaps there is evidence otherwise.

21 hours ago, ryanlammi said:

^NYC, Chicago, etc all have these, but does Pittsburgh, Sacramento, Cleveland, Columbus, St. Louis, Nashville, Phoenix, etc all have these? I don't know that they do.

 

The biggest issue with putting these high-end shopping districts in smaller cities is that you need the local population to support them. International tourists simply aren't coming to Cincinnati in the numbers that would support these businesses.

 

Not directly downtown but Pittsburgh has a shopping district in Shadyside that has an Apple Store, Sephora, Lululemon, etc. 

 

https://goo.gl/maps/HiPCkesEgqP2

 

Baltimore also has a lot of those types of stores around the Inner Harbor.

I've been to that strip in Pittsburgh. It's great, but I really don't think it's comparable to what was being discussed. This is also an area that more resembles a block or two of OTR (like Vine Street between 12th and 14th) than Downtown. Small footprint buildings that aren't typical of Downtown or Fountain Square.

13 hours ago, edale said:

Why would those type of places open in Downtown instead of Kenwood? If you work for Uniqlo or Zara (both of which have no stores in the Cincy market) would you open Downtown or in Kenwood? Even the city you want to emulate, New Orleans, doesn’t have much in the way of chain retail downtown. 

It's been almost a decade since I was in New Orleans, but the CBD there was absolutely dead. Could not even find a place to eat on the way to the Superdome. All the urban life is concentrated in the French Quarter.

14 hours ago, troeros said:

 

 

I disagree. I whole heartedly believe that OTR will allow Cincinnati to become New Orleans of the Midwest in the next 2 decades. Assuming the gentrification will continue north of liberty.

 

I truly believe people will visit our old historic otr breweries the same way they explore the bourbon trail in Louisville. 

 

OTR is a LEGIT triple threat that will allow Cincy in the future to have a real strong uptick in national and international tourism. I honestly believe because of otr we will be put on the map in the 15-20 years. There is almost nothing like it in America and is probably one of the top 5 most unique urban neighborhoods in America. It's that much of a jewel.  

 

 

I love New Orleans, and I obviously love Cincinnati. They share so much in common. But I don't think Cincinnati will reach a New Orleans caliber of international tourism and destination in the next decade or two. Not that it can't ever, it certainly has the bones. It just won't be for a very long time. New Orleans has done a better job of preserving its history and architecture for a much longer time than Cincinnati has, and because New Orleans economy is so dependent on tourism, they've really established themselves as an international destination by marketing said history, architecture, and culture. Cincinnati (thankfully) isn't as reliant on tourism.

Touristy areas remain rustic because they're isn't any real commerce in them to come along and change things.

In terms of people visiting places for historic architecture New Orleans, Charleston and Savannah come to mind. They are all in the south and near the ocean. Are there any northern cities that people visit for the historic architecture? Maybe Boston? (also near ocean) 

2 hours ago, Robuu said:

It's been almost a decade since I was in New Orleans, but the CBD there was absolutely dead. Could not even find a place to eat on the way to the Superdome. All the urban life is concentrated in the French Quarter.

 

I was there a couple months ago and the downtown was very vibrant.  Lots of neat bars around side streets, new hotel conversions, new-ish restaurants, etc.

8 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

In terms of people visiting places for historic architecture New Orleans, Charleston and Savannah come to mind. They are all in the south and near the ocean. Are there any northern cities that people visit for the historic architecture? Maybe Boston? (also near ocean) 

 

Newport, Rhode Island comes to mind, but it's also right on the coast. Not in the USA, but Quebec City is another northern city that people visit primarily for the architecture. I'd argue that a lot of people visit  Boston, NYC, and Philly based on their historic architecture, too, but those cities are all large enough to have multiple things that would interest tourists. 

 

Charleston and Savannah are interesting almost exclusively because of their architecture and cultural history. I spent a rainy day in Charleston a few years ago, and trying to find a museum to spend a few hours in was impossible. Savannah at least has SCAD and its great museum. 

8 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

 

I was there a couple months ago and the downtown was very vibrant.  Lots of neat bars around side streets, new hotel conversions, new-ish restaurants, etc.

 

Yeah, I was impressed with the CBD, too. But I didn't notice much in the way of chain retail. Canal Street had a few stores, but not too much. I did see plenty of bars, restaurants, and hotels, though.

Savanah is a totally typical Southern sprawl blob just 1,000 feet outside the famous historic area.  Same with New Orleans -- get outside the prewar city and you're in Colerain Twp with shaggy palm trees. 

9 minutes ago, edale said:

 

Yeah, I was impressed with the CBD, too. But I didn't notice much in the way of chain retail. Canal Street had a few stores, but not too much. I did see plenty of bars, restaurants, and hotels, though.

 

Which is why I appreciated their downtown more than expected.  It did lack chain stores but I kinda expected that in a city built in the 1700's with one of America's most unique cultures/provincial living.  Hell, the metropolitan area lacked chains compared to similar sized metros and I would bet it would be due to the isolation + legendary local culture (aka a Cafe Du Monde drive-thru versus a Panera being there).

 

But to be fair to shopping in downtown New Orleans, they still have The Shops at Canal Place with Saks, Louis Vuitton, Tiffany & Co, etc aka better shopping than any downtown in the Midwest outside of Chicago.

12 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

Savanah is a totally typical Southern sprawl blob just 1,000 feet outside the famous historic area.  Same with New Orleans -- get outside the prewar city and you're in Colerain Twp with shaggy palm trees. 

 

Hilariously, Kenner reminded me of a Colerain Township-type area that was flat, denser, and yes...shaggy palm trees.  

12 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

Savanah is a totally typical Southern sprawl blob just 1,000 feet outside the famous historic area.  Same with New Orleans -- get outside the prewar city and you're in Colerain Twp with shaggy palm trees. 

 

Charleston too.  There's maybe a mile or so of late-19th and early-20th century bungalow neighborhoods before they go post-war (Savannah does at least have a decent Victorian neighborhood to the south of the historic core, but not in any other direction).  These being small towns for much of their history, they get suburban VERY fast.  Raleigh is very much like this.  Just a half dozen blocks from the State Capitol and you'd think you were in Fairfax or Deer Park.  Barely a mile out and it might as well be Turpin Hills or Madeira. 

51 minutes ago, thomasbw said:

In terms of people visiting places for historic architecture New Orleans, Charleston and Savannah come to mind. They are all in the south and near the ocean. Are there any northern cities that people visit for the historic architecture? Maybe Boston? (also near ocean) 

 

Philly for sure. When I lived there you dealt with tourists on a daily basis taking pictures of all the buildings in your neighborhood, and not just in Old City/Society Hill. But it's also a living, 21st Century city with a downtown population of 200,000 people (largest outside NYC) and a metro population of 6 million+ so its obviously a different beast. 

34 minutes ago, edale said:

Newport, Rhode Island comes to mind, but it's also right on the coast. Not in the USA, but Quebec City is another northern city that people visit primarily for the architecture. I'd argue that a lot of people visit  Boston, NYC, and Philly based on their historic architecture, too, but those cities are all large enough to have multiple things that would interest tourists. 

Quebec City has the benefit of also being in French Canada, which gives it the European feel that attracts English Speaking tourists. It's architecture is a factor as well however. Newport benefits from having exceptional homes that are in themselves architectural and design marvels. Though we have beautiful homes and great architecture here, the grandiose nature of Newport is what makes it appealing to visitors.

20 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

Savanah is a totally typical Southern sprawl blob just 1,000 feet outside the famous historic area.  Same with New Orleans -- get outside the prewar city and you're in Colerain Twp with shaggy palm trees. 

Sorry Jake, I have to disagree with you, but i lived there 6 years. Outside the historic areas is an amazing ring of Victorian era architecture, outside that ring is Pre WWI homes construction. It truly doesnt become gross sprawl until  you go a couple miles outside Victory Drive, even then you have some amazing Post WWII neighborhoods.

I have only driven to Savanah from the west, where the prewar city ends abruptly, just west of the historic district:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Savannah,+GA/@32.0721586,-81.1332837,6719m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88fb75fc78f20659:0x4e0c6751036020bc!8m2!3d32.0808989!4d-81.091203

 

I didn't know all of that stuff was to the south. 

 

2 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

I have only driven to Savanah from the west, where the prewar city ends abruptly, just west of the historic district:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Savannah,+GA/@32.0721586,-81.1332837,6719m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x88fb75fc78f20659:0x4e0c6751036020bc!8m2!3d32.0808989!4d-81.091203

 

I didn't know all of that stuff was to the south. 

 

Yeah you came in through Garden City and such, the port neighborhoods. Nothing but slums and major drug dealers. It was always known you never went west of the bridge/I-16 not unless you wanted good drugs or a dirty hooker. 

Edited January 10, 20196 yr by savadams13

Getting back to Fountain Square, I also hope to see a shopping district free of big traditional anchor stores. Like it was stated previously: stores like Zara, H&M, and Uniqlo would all have more success IMO. Especially with the proximity to all the OTR hipsters who don't want to drive to Kenwood. Besides, stores like Macy's Nordstrom, etc. are dying anyways. I say good riddance to them. 

Edited January 10, 20196 yr by Largue

Do you have any idea if 3CDC intends too rehab the existing building or build a tower?

16 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said:

Do you have any idea if 3CDC intends too rehab the existing building or build a tower?

 I think rehab the building but they can add up to 22 additional stories on top of the existing building