4 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

The temporary stage never seemed to come down.

 

The "temporary" stage is set up from spring to fall, then they take it down and replace it with the ice rink for the winter. It makes a lot of sense to build a permanent stage, given that it is used 3+ times per week for 3 out of the 4 seasons.

 

4 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

The renovated square has been a wildly cluttered place since Day 1.  I remain unconvinced that the reorientation of the square was a net positive.

 

I am not a fan of the tree groves on the east and west sides of the square, because those areas feel like awkward dead space. As opposed to the trees to the north which have tables under them, creating a pleasant place to sit. This permanent stage replaces the east tree grove so it's really a win-win.

For all of the mental space the square consumes, it's a shockingly small place in actuality.  It's a mere 180x250, or maybe the size of two single-family lots in Loveland or Mason.  Or Maineville, wherever that is. 

7 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

For all of the mental space the square consumes, it's a shockingly small place in actuality.  It's a mere 180x250, or maybe the size of two single-family lots in Loveland or Mason.  Or Maineville, wherever that is. 

huh? Are you joking/trolling, or do you sincerely not know why Fountain Square consumes more “mental space” than a suburban single-family lot?

15 hours ago, jmecklenborg said:

 

The temporary stage never seemed to come down.  

 

The renovated square has been a wildly cluttered place since Day 1.  I remain unconvinced that the reorientation of the square was a net positive.  The old permanent stage was ugly but it had some character since it also served as a staircase to the skywalk.  There was a funny landing on it where people watched bands from above and behind and sometimes hung banners off the railing.  

 

The biggest thing I liked about the renovation is that it leveled off the square. The old square was like a maze of stairs and barriers. The new one is much more open to walk on (cluttered yes) and also flatter and less raised. It feels as if the new square increased the usable space a bunch which was helpful. 

Last weekend I was talking to someone about filling up bicycle water bottles from the Tyler Davidson Fountain and he said he didn't know there was a fountain on the square. 

 

The guy is not from here but has been here for a few years and claims that he has been to the square.  So either a) he has never been to the square or b) the clutter of the rebuilt square and moving of the fountain really and truly does "hide" the fountain, despite it being positioned in the physical center of the square. 

 

I mean, think about how much more prominent 5/3rd's "166%" girl advertisements on the square are than the female statue atop the fountain.  

1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said:

Last weekend I was talking to someone about filling up bicycle water bottles from the Tyler Davidson Fountain and he said he didn't know there was a fountain on the square. 

 

The guy is not from here but has been here for a few years and claims that he has been to the square.  So either a) he has never been to the square or b) the clutter of the rebuilt square and moving of the fountain really and truly does "hide" the fountain, despite it being positioned in the physical center of the square. 

 

I mean, think about how much more prominent 5/3rd's "166%" girl advertisements on the square are than the female statue atop the fountain.  

 

Once the old stage is removed, I think it will help the sight lines of the fountain from the street, at least from Vine and Fifth. 

 

Progress on the stage:

 

So the Copperplate font from the mid '90s is back in style?

 

so sick of fonts

10 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

So the Copperplate font from the mid '90s is back in style?

 

so sick of fonts

 

I think it has more to do with that this is 5/3rds font for everything so it's part of their bland...I mean brand!

I forgot they were using that.

 

They probably don't have Johnny Bench in their ads anymore either

1 hour ago, JYP said:

 

I think it has more to do with that this is 5/3rds font for everything so it's part of their bland...I mean brand!

I appreciate that they used white letters that blend in. 

If there ever were another case for a tower re-clad...

2 hours ago, jim uber said:

I appreciate that they used white letters that blend in. 

 

Yeah, I was trying to find an angle where you can clearly see the letters, and it just doesn't exist. No matter where you stand on the square, you can't read the sign clearly because half of the letters blend it to the building behind it. Although it will probably be less of an issue in the evenings when concerts are going on.

The annual Klan display on the square was a major impetus for the creation of 3CDC. 

 

 

On 7/16/2020 at 11:16 AM, jim uber said:

I appreciate that they used white letters that blend in. 

What is the deal with the oddly placed logo there on the right? it looks like they just used one of their ATM wayfinding pole signs. Still 100% better than the permanently there temporary stage. no more seeing all the equipment and chaos backstage as a welcome from 5th street.

I think there's a logo on each side. It's just blocked by the speakers in my picture above.

Fifth Third Bank to donate permanent stage on Cincinnati's Fountain Square

 

Fifth Third Bank is donating a newly completed $2 million permanent stage on Fountain Square that will change the look of the downtown community gathering place.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/08/11/fifth-third-donates-permanent-stage.html

 

This is a much better location for the stage.  Not part of the square won't be blocked when a crowd is trying to watch something on the video board across the street.  Plus it opens up the view of the square more from 5th street.

Rebuild the esplanade, move the fountain back to where it was for 100 years.  It's still a cluttered mess that tries to please everyone.  

7 minutes ago, jmecklenborg said:

Rebuild the esplanade, move the fountain back to where it was for 100 years.  It's still a cluttered mess that tries to please everyone.  

it’s strange to think, if they had preserved the historic architecture around the square decades ago (starting, say, after the Carew Tower was finished) I would have a completely different mental image/conceptualization of Cincinnati in my head. Maybe our national image would be different too

19 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

it’s strange to think, if they had preserved the historic architecture around the square decades ago (starting, say, after the Carew Tower was finished) I would have a completely different mental image/conceptualization of Cincinnati in my head. Maybe our national image would be different too

 

Whenever I see Cincinnati on national TV it's shows shots of Musical Hall, 12th and Vine OTR, the banks, etc. It's rarely of fountain square anymore. 

 

I think our national imagine is really good nowadays, especially when they show the cobblele stone streets of otr with music hall lit in the background.

18 minutes ago, thebillshark said:

it’s strange to think, if they had preserved the historic architecture around the square decades ago (starting, say, after the Carew Tower was finished) I would have a completely different mental image/conceptualization of Cincinnati in my head. Maybe our national image would be different too

Tearing down the old federal courthouse in the 1930s to make work for construction workers was a broken window fallacy economically and a huge step back for the city center architecturally.  The federal bank building to the south with its never-used outdoor plaza is a big waste of space and a similar aesthetic dud.  

 

An original plan for the Rapid Transit Loop was for the track to head south from Central Parkway beneath Vine St., then turn east under Fifth to a large multi-platform station beneath Fountain Square and Government Square.  Then the route would have continued south beneath Main St. for two blocks before surfacing to an elevated viaduct over Third St. east to what is now Columbia Parkway.  

 

That space measures about 900x100 feet, so there would have been plenty of space for 6-8 tracks.  The problem with that plan was the high expense and the fact that the Rapid Transit Loop was from Day 1 a plan to move the center of downtown Cincinnati from Fountain Square to Central Parkway.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It would be something else. But there would be no room for a stage!

5 minutes ago, JYP said:

 

It would be something else. But there would be no room for a stage!

 

Crazy idea, but why not move fountain square to Washington Park and create a small plaza with a seating area?

 

It would like super impressive, especially with music hall in the background.

Why not just leave it as it is?  It gets used every weekend spring to fall in normal years.  Sorry it's not the epicenter of downtown anymore, there are actually other things to do now unlike the 00s, 90s, 80s, 70s, ect. 

43 minutes ago, troeros said:

 

Crazy idea, but why not move fountain square to Washington Park and create a small plaza with a seating area?

 

It would like super impressive, especially with music hall in the background.

 

Washington Park is already perfect IMO. What Fountain Square needs is more people living nearby so it stays activated 24/7. Right now it only gets used during big events and during lunch time.

The current Fountain Square configuration is fine. We invested millions in a major renovation less than 15 years ago, and are getting another mini-renovation now. During non-COVID times, is packed every day at lunch and probably 5-6 evenings each week. The same is true of Washington Park.

 

There are many other parks/plazas in the CBD that could use some love and where the investment would have a much higher ROI — Garfield Plaza, the plazas around the Public Library, or the future FWW caps. If we want to dream big... what if P&G donated their private courtyards along Fifth Street to the city and turned them into a space everyone could enjoy?

1 hour ago, troeros said:

 

Crazy idea, but why not move fountain square to Washington Park and create a small plaza with a seating area?

 

It would like super impressive, especially with music hall in the background.

This is a terrible idea. 

The Square suffers from suffocation. The short squat parking garage just north of it needs to be torn down and rebuilt or totally gutted and turned into a mixed use modern podium that has a highly permeable ground floor with 1 or 2 big, generous pedestrian links to 6th, and active 2nd and 3rd floors too. 

Edited August 11, 20204 yr by atlas

3 hours ago, JYP said:

It would be something else. But there would be no room for a stage!

 

We could project that slide on the jumbotron to the sounds of Kodachrome.  

 

 

 

 

I'd argue that lunchtime* at Fountain Square is the most consistently activated public space in the city. I love having lunch there. 

 

*pre-COVID

5 hours ago, taestell said:

If we want to dream big... what if P&G donated their private courtyards along Fifth Street to the city and turned them into a space everyone could enjoy?

 

...or build buildings?

On 7/15/2020 at 10:32 PM, taestell said:

Progress on the stage:

 

5/3 just got tired of having USBank sponsor the stage on their square. 

When the new HQ was built around 1987, I clearly recall the lawns and colonnades being open to the crowds at Oktoberfest.  Nothing formal was set up on the lawns but people were making themselves at home.  Across the street, kids climbed all over the fiberglass sculpture in front of the Chiquita Center that has since been banished to Pyramid Hill.   

On 8/11/2020 at 3:55 PM, taestell said:

The current Fountain Square configuration is fine. We invested millions in a major renovation less than 15 years ago, and are getting another mini-renovation now. During non-COVID times, is packed every day at lunch and probably 5-6 evenings each week. The same is true of Washington Park.

 

There are many other parks/plazas in the CBD that could use some love and where the investment would have a much higher ROI — Garfield Plaza, the plazas around the Public Library, or the future FWW caps. If we want to dream big... what if P&G donated their private courtyards along Fifth Street to the city and turned them into a space everyone could enjoy?

Yeah, this is where I'm at too. Fountain Square is one of the most highly used public spaces in the city. 

Watch this video by William Whyte before it gets pulled (the copyright holders are ruthless, I'm amazed it's been on YouTube for two months now).  The whole video is a treasure trove of lessons about why urban parks and plazas do or do not function.  If you want to skip to the part about Fountain Square (pre remodel, but all the points still stand), it's at 53:06 just know that he references many design elements that were much more thoroughly explained earlier in the video.  Don't be turned off by the blown out contrast in the first scene, that's the only real visual problem in the video.  This is one of the things I remember vividly from architecture school, full of insight and wonderfully dry humor as a bonus.    

 

 

I might have missed this or completely forgot but looking at the rendering it looks as tho they will be removing the colorful lighting feature on the front of the north building is that  happening/official?

 

 

Edited August 17, 20204 yr by 646empire

What they NEED to do is turn Via Vite into a Shake Shack.

 

#justsayin'

28 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

What they NEED to do is turn Via Vite into a Shake Shack.

 

#justsayin'

LOVE that idea! Keep in mind the Rockbottom Restaurant space is available, so fingers crossed it will be something good in the future.

20 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

What they NEED to do is turn Via Vite into a Shake Shack.

 

#justsayin'

It blows my mind that they can have multiple locations in Columbus and Cleveland as well as one in Lexington and Indianapolis and yet there’s none in cincy. There’s so many good locations that it would do well in (preferably in the city limits).

45 minutes ago, Ucgrad2015 said:

It blows my mind that they can have multiple locations in Columbus and Cleveland as well as one in Lexington and Indianapolis and yet there’s none in cincy. There’s so many good locations that it would do well in (preferably in the city limits).

 

They probably don't see Cincinnati as a viable market. It's been like this for a multitude of chains that don't see Cincy as viable or healthy to introduce their chain. 

13 minutes ago, troeros said:

They probably don't see Cincinnati as a viable market. It's been like this for a multitude of chains that don't see Cincy as viable or healthy to introduce their chain. 

 

Probably because I can name a dozen places off the top of my head with better burgers than Shake Shack.

 

It was nice when it was a novelty in Madison Square Park. A few years ago I went to one of the chains and it was wildly underwhelming. Like, I'd rather have Wendy's underwhelming.

There probably is an investor group who hasn't completely signed off on funding locations in this market.  

 

But who cares - nobody's going hungry.  And besides, every 2-3 years some chain takes off, people go nuts, and then 10 years later it's either cliché (Chipotle) or defunct (Five Guys).  

 

The food is different but the emotions are the same.      

Five Guys is defunct in Cincinnati???

There are still like a half dozen in the area I think

I remember reading that when Five Guys expands, they won't allow franchisees to open just one location, they have to open like 5 locations each. So that's why probably Cincinnati got oversaturated with Five Guys locations. A few closed, but we still have like 8 of them in Greater Cincinnati.

 

Five Guys is better than Shake Shack.

13 minutes ago, taestell said:

they won't allow franchisees to open just one location, they have to open like 5 locations each. 

 

A lot of franchises are like this.  For example, a Great Clips franchise owner must own three.  

 

It's important to have multiple locations when a restaurant chain enters a new market because they need volume to justify the outfitting of a regional commissary.  That facility might only be 2-3 people in a larger general facility but otherwise you're completely at the mercy of Restaurant Depot or Sysco, meaning you're working from the same base ingredients that everyone else is.    

 

A lot of franchised businesses are pseudo-predatory, with much of the risk heaped on the franchisees (not unlike gig work).  New franchisees are sometimes at the bottom of the pyramid beneath earlier ones.  

 

The restaurant industry is a minefield.  

Very Happy to see this happening. Interesting no signed office tenant yet. Did they have one before but they pulled out? Not sure. This article has ALOT of info.

 

Leeper of 3CDC said “ “We’ve got to get this thing moving, We can’t let it sit any longer.” - I AGREE!!

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/09/28/3cdc-redeveloping-fountain-place-into-50-million.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_6&cx_artPos=0#cxrecs_s

Edited September 28, 20204 yr by 646empire

- To provide more outdoor dining space, the plan is to take an entire lane on Vine Street and push out the sidewalk. Plans also call for expanding the sidewalks on Fifth and Race streets.

 

- In addition, 3CDC has purchased a new LED board that will be installed atop the Foundry by Opening Day 2021. Leeper said now was actually a good time to buy the board because they received a good price on it. The new board is much higher definition than the existing board and more rectangular.

 

- To pay for the redevelopment of Fountain Place into the Foundry, 3CDC is using a first mortgage of $35.9 million, a second mortgage of more than $8.9 million, a $1 million loan from JobsOhio, a $2 million grant from JobsOhio and the more than $2.9 million in city funding for the streetscape improvements.

 

- Skywalk is coming down

 

- Construction starts next month with completion summer 2021

2 minutes ago, 646empire said:

- To provide more outdoor dining space, the plan is to take an entire lane on Vine Street and push out the sidewalk. Plans also call for expanding the sidewalks on Fifth and Race streets.

 

- In addition, 3CDC has purchased a new LED board that will be installed atop the Foundry by Opening Day 2021. Leeper said now was actually a good time to buy the board because they received a good price on it. The new board is much higher definition than the existing board and more rectangular.

 

- To pay for the redevelopment of Fountain Place into the Foundry, 3CDC is using a first mortgage of $35.9 million, a second mortgage of more than $8.9 million, a $1 million loan from JobsOhio, a $2 million grant from JobsOhio and the more than $2.9 million in city funding for the streetscape improvements.

 

- Skywalk is coming down

 

- Construction starts next month with completion summer 2021

 

Some of the renderings provided in the article