Eatery Indecision: Some restaurateurs not sure they can swallow challenges

Lucy May and Dan Monk

Courier Senior Staff Reporters

 

 

Andrew DeWitt likes the idea of opening a Dewey's Pizza location on Fountain Square. He sees the $42 million plan to redevelop the square as "cool" and wants to be part of it.

 

But DeWitt, founder of the upscale pizza place, has a business to run. He doesn't want to gamble that the redeveloped square will bring enough people downtown at night and on weekends to support a full-service restaurant.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2005/06/20/story2.html?page=4

 

^ Okay, whatever.  Residents down there have trouble with someone delivering a pizza 3 blocks.

 

Either you're in, or you're out.  Have some balls, or don't.  Somebody take a fucking chance!....

if that guy is gonna charge 3 dollars for a slice of pizza, it better be one of those huge slices that are the size of a flattened bowling ball

At Taste of Cincinnati, Dewey's charged $2 for "basic" slices like Cheese and Pepperoni, and $3 for the gourmet stuff with artichoke, pesto, goat cheese, etc. I think the slice bar idea could work.

 

Overall, a great article.

One can buy slices at Gondola Pizza on 7th.  They are pretty good but I say the more the merrier.

i just hope whatever ends up there stays open late. bookstores, whatever. i mean, graeters on 4th even closes at 6 or something. i get home and everything is closed! if you walk around there is quite a bit downtown, but it all closes so damn early. i think even starbucks on 4th closes at 4 or something stupid.

 

i wish a decent coffee shop (similar to highlands or something) would move onto w 4th somewhere. would fit in nice, and give me some place to go at night

 

with all teh new residential you have to get some sort of normal lifestyle stuff to go on downtown to keep the residential going. the two go hand in hand, unfortunately people in this town don't want to take a chance with downtown. instead we keep the sprawl of these lifestyle centers going on

History board vetoes Fountain Square plan

City Council must reconsider moving landmark

 

By Gregory Korte

Enquirer staff writer

 

Cincinnati City Council will be forced to vote again on the plan to move the Tyler Davidson Fountain, after the city's Historic Conservation Board voted to reject plans to move the emblematic city landmark 110 feet to the north.

 

Fountain Square's developer, known as 3CDC, says it will ask City Council to overrule the decision.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050629/NEWS01/506290393/1056

Here's the story on the $4M loan, from the 6/29/05 Cincinnati Post:

 

 

$4M loan to assist in Square renovation

Post staff report

 

A $4 million low-interest loan is on the way to help finance a renovation of downtown Cincinnati's Fountain Square.

 

The loan, with an interest rate of 3 percent over 10 years, will go to Fountain Square LLC on behalf of Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC), a non-profit group charged with developing the center city.

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050629/NEWS01/506290352

 

i just hope whatever ends up there stays open late. bookstores, whatever. i mean, graeters on 4th even closes at 6 or something. i get home and everything is closed! if you walk around there is quite a bit downtown, but it all closes so damn early. i think even starbucks on 4th closes at 4 or something stupid.

 

i wish a decent coffee shop (similar to highlands or something) would move onto w 4th somewhere. would fit in nice, and give me some place to go at night

 

with all teh new residential you have to get some sort of normal lifestyle stuff to go on downtown to keep the residential going. the two go hand in hand, unfortunately people in this town don't want to take a chance with downtown. instead we keep the sprawl of these lifestyle centers going on

 

I agree completely.  I now live acrosss the street from Fountain Sq - so I'm excited to see this happen... however, I hope that it in at least some small way caters to downtown residents like myself.

does anyone know if the fountain has, historically, ALWAYS been more or less where it is now??  my understanding was that it's been moved before, but please correct me if I'm wrong

DGlenn, the fountain was moved somewhat north when Fountain Square was converted from a mid-street strip similar to Court Street, into the urban plaza we know today.  However, they decided to keep the Fountain on the southern edge to maintain the look/placement of the old square

 

Fountain Square remake good to go

City Council overrides Historic Conservation Board's objection to the $42 million project

 

By Allen Howard

Enquirer staff writer

 

 

After a last-minute hiccup, the $42 million renovation of Fountain Square is once again set to start this summer.

 

At its last meeting before recessing for the summer, Cincinnati City County voted Wednesday to override the city's Historic Conservation Board - which voted unanimously Monday to reject moving the Tyler Davidson fountain 110 feet north in the square.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050630/NEWS01/506300360/1056/news01

^if that guy is gonna charge 3 dollars for a slice of pizza, it better be one of those huge slices that are the size of a flattened bowling ball

 

I am in France right now and just saw slices of pizza for 8€ yesterday, and this is plain stuff. 

^  8 for one slice? sacre bleu!

well, have fun in france

So my question is: 

 

Has the Historic Conservation Board provided any rational or reasoning to their objection to moving the fountain?  I havn't seen anything.  It seems to me that there's no value added to such a comittee if they aern't going to publish some sort of rationale for the decisions/recomendation.

 

I'm a supporter of the plan to move the fountain, but that doesn't mean I couldn't be swayed by a compelling argument for leaving it in it's current location. If they haven't offered up an explanation for their vote, they shouldn't be suprised by it being over-rulled by city council.

 

My appologies to the Historic Conservation Board if they have published there reasoning and the mainstream press didn't bother to publish it.

 

:whip:

^my sentiments exactly.  although...i think its pretty obvious that their objection is moving out of alignment with 5th street.  i apparently had misunderstood the fountain to have been further down closer to government square when the original location was  actually not too far from where it is now?  council sure did crush them!

From http://www.cincinnati.com/fountain/

 

Since 1871 Cincinnatians have viewed the Tyler Davidson Fountain, in its present location at Fountain Square and in its previous incarnation a block away at Government Square, as a symbol of Cincinnati.

 

So maybe it has moved a bit more.

 

Fountain Square set to move ahead

Next up: First-phase subcontracts

 

By Marla Matzer Rose

Enquirer staff writer

 

After months of discussions, planning and votes, the major revamp of Fountain Square finally looks cleared for takeoff. What's next?

 

Megen Construction, which had already been selected as construction manager for the redevelopment, plans to quickly request and evaluate proposals from subcontractors for the first phase of work, which will involve relocating the Tyler Davidson Fountain. Though he declined to name a date, Megan president Evans Nwankwo said these first proposals are expected to start coming in by mid-July.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050701/BIZ01/507010364/1076/BIZ

Yes siree we're getting some movement on this project.

From the 7/14/05 Enquirer:

 

Fountain Square fallout

Businesses worry about the disruption

By Joshua Rinaldi

Post staff reporter

 

While most of City Council looks at the upcoming Fountain Square renovation with eager eyes, many businesses on the square are dreading it.

 

"Quite honestly, we feel like we've been trampled in this whole thing," said Doug Christman, general counsel for Rock Bottom restaurants.

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050714/NEWS01/507140348

 

Good points.  3CDC and the other principals in the project should have done more consulting with the businesses.  However, the statement by Smitherman regarding the issues shows the type of laid back attitude that sucks dry some offices.  If he saw a concern did he use his official powers and unofficial weight to better address those concerns?

Those are real problems echoed by the businesses however at this point any more delay and this project would lose momentum.  I hope a deal is reached with 5/3 perhaps some short term financing that the restaurants can pay back later.

A date has been set to begin the project.  This blurb appeared in the 7/30/05 Enquirer's Local Business Summary:

 

 

Square renovation to begin Aug. 22

 

The $42 million renovation of Fountain Square downtown is set to begin Aug. 22, construction manager Megen Construction said Friday. Bids for the first phase of the project are due Aug. 17, with others to quickly follow. Megen, a minority-owned firm, expects to achieve about 27 percent minority participation in the project.

 

Marla Matzer Rose

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050730/BIZ01/507300343/1076/rss01

 

The story from the 8/1/05 Cincinnati Business Courier:

 

 

First Fountain Square bid deadline set for Aug. 17

 

The $42 million renovation of Cincinnati's Fountain Square is set to begin Aug. 22, according to the project's construction manager, Megen Construction Company. Bids for the first phase of the project are due Aug. 17, with others to quickly follow.

 

Megen intends to exceed the 25 percent minority business participation goals set by the developer, Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC).

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2005/08/01/daily2.html?from_rss=1

 

Christmas changing downtown

Traditional festivities will move to Sawyer Point this year

 

By Marla Matzer Rose

Enquirer staff writer

 

OKTOBERFEST SHIFTS

Fountain Square's renovation will force a slight relocation of Oktoberfest. It will remain on Fifth Street this September. But the celebration will have to move one block east, starting at Vine Street rather than Race Street. It also will lose the space on Fountain Square, said Chris Hooven of the Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber's Downtown Council. Otherwise, the 30th annual celebration of German food, beer and music will go on as usual the weekend of Sept. 17-18.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050807/BIZ01/508070305/1002/BIZ

From the 8/11/05 Cincinnati Post:

 

 

Square overhaul to begin in weeks

By Kevin Osborne

Post staff reporter

 

Though some details still need to be decided, work crews will begin construction on reshaping downtown's Fountain Square within the next three weeks.

 

To prepare for the disruption, a private development group overseeing the $42 million project will meet Tuesday with nearby business owners and office workers. The nonprofit Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. - 3CDC - will discuss the construction schedule and inform people about parking alternatives while the plaza's underground parking garage is closed.

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050817/NEWS01/508170354

 

Square ceremony delayed; no construction for a while

 

By Marla Matzer Rose

Enquirer staff writer

 

 

 

The groundbreaking ceremony for the Fountain Square renovation has been pushed back from Aug. 29 "several weeks," the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) said Tuesday.

 

In a press release, 3CDC president and CEO Steve Leeper attributed the change to "end-of-the-summer" schedule conflicts, and a need to "take the extra time to double-check that all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed."

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050817/BIZ01/508170309/1002/BIZ

Fountain Square details emerge

 

By Marla Matzer Rose

Enquirer staff writer

 

 

Plans for the $42 million revamp of Fountain Square continue to take shape even as the formal groundbreaking for the project has been delayed until September.

 

Wednesday, the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., which is coordinating the development, posted on its Web site a map detailing parking options available while the square's parking garage is closed during construction. Other details and timing on construction are expected to be available within the next two weeks.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050818/BIZ01/508180410/1002/BIZ

One-ton 'Genius' to visit art museum

 

By Sara Pearce

Enquirer staff writer

 

The top of the Tyler Davidson Fountain will be removed temporarily during work on Fountain Square.

 

 

 

The tall woman with the water drip, drip, dripping from her outstretched hands is about to be unhooked from her plumbing, packed up with her pedestal and whisked to Eden Park.

 

There the elegant "Genius of Water" will reign over the Cincinnati Art Museum's Great Hall while her regular home, Fountain Square, is renovated.

 

The four boys on the edge of the town's most famous fountain will be unbolted and moved to the Cincinnati Museum Center at Union Terminal to become part of an exhibit about the landmark.

 

As for the rest of the 109-ton bronze and stone Tyler Davidson Fountain, it will be taken apart, lifted by cranes onto a truck and put into storage, says Joel Koopman, principal architect of the city's facility management division, which maintains the fountain.

 

The move, delayed once already, is expected in the next three weeks, says Kevin Armstrong, Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. spokesman.

 

"I am thrilled," says Julie Aronson, the museum's curator of American paintings and sculpture. "The fountain is part of Cincinnati's cultural heritage, really an icon of the city."

 

The museum owns the model for the fountain and displays it in the Cincinnati Wing.

 

The lady, who is 9 feet tall and weighs 2,000 pounds, will stand at the top of the grand staircase.

 

"I'm looking forward to seeing her up close, it's a perspective you don't usually get," says Aronson.

 

That's because Genius tops a 43-foot structure designed by German artist August von Kreling (1819-1876) and cast at the Royal Bronze Foundry of Bavaria.

 

Dedicated in 1871, it was commissioned by Cincinnati businessman Henry Probasco as a memorial for his brother-in-law and business partner, Tyler Davidson.

 

Two of the boys will sit outside the entrance of the Cincinnati Historical Society Library and two will be in an alcove inside, says Dan Hurley, the Museum Center's assistant vice president for history and research.

 

The library owns the original documentation for the fountain, including photographs of its dedication in the center of the esplanade that once split Fifth street.

 

"We can put the fountain in context," says Hurley, adding that the display will also provide exposure for the library. "People forget that they can use it."

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050826/NEWS01/508260395/1056

Hey, I just noticed she isn't wearing a bra, that's offensive! ;-)

The user controllable web cam for Fountain Square is back on-line, just in time to catch the start of construction.

 

http://www.aroundcinci.com/icams/fountain/

Thanks for the heads-up.  I'll have to check it out when the sun comes back up!

There's a link on the following page of the 3CDC site to a power point presentation providing an update to the Fountain Square renovation.  Some of the information has already been summarized by other sources.

 

http://www.3cdc.org/content.jsp?articleId=197

Fountain revamp to follow Oktoberfest

 

By Marla Matzer Rose

Enquirer staff writer

 

The long-discussed and twice-delayed Fountain Square renovation project is set to go forward the week of Sept. 19.

 

Steve Leeper, president and CEO of Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC), said Thursday the organization decided it made sense to start work immediately after Oktoberfest, which will celebrate its 30th anniversary of taking place around Fountain Square the weekend of Sept. 17-18.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050909/NEWS01/509090416/1056

I'm glad they made that decision.  Oktoberfest would be a lot less fun in the middle of a demolition zone.

Redo of square still up in air

Objections from Rock Bottom Brewery could delay start of 'big dig' downtown

Dan Monk and Lucy May

Senior Staff Reporters

 

 

The much-anticipated $42 million renovation of Fountain Square and its parking garage may be delayed by Rock Bottom Brewery.

 

A lawyer for the restaurant said Rock Bottom has met with representatives of the city of Cincinnati, the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC), and Fifth Third Bank, which owns the building where the restaurant operates, to express concerns about how the renovation project could disrupt business.

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2005/09/12/story4.html

Fuck this!

 

This project was announced WHEN?

Here is comes...  Next thing you know we have a Rookwood on our hands.  I am not a big fan of this project to begin with but if it is going to happen then lets get it over with.  I understand Rock Bottom's concern but this should have been aired to the media months ago, not now.

Jesus, let's get this thing started. It sounds like they might be trying to get some sort of compensation from the city on this. I'm also ready to get this thing over with. I'm sure Rock Bottom will benifit from the end result and I bet he knows this, it's got to be about money. BTW, how do they plan on having "full-access" once the square is in pieces? A new opening somewhere?

Goodbye "old" Fountain Square

Reconstruction to begin after Oktoberfest

By Marla Matzer Rose

Enquirer staff writer

 

The end of this year's Oktoberfest Zinzinnati will be bittersweet. It will be the last event on the "old" Fountain Square, before it's closed for nearly a year for its first major renovation in three decades.

 

On Monday - nearly 2½ years after planners proposed improving the square's layout - workers will erect a fence around the region's signature public space. By Tuesday, heavy equipment will be moving onto the two-acre site in the heart of downtown.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050918/NEWS01/509180352

I hope this project includes a mast pole at Vine and 5th, that is one of the few intersections along 5th with wire hung traffic lights and it is right infront of Fountain Square.

Rock Bottom seeks paycheck during Square renovation

Dan Monk

 

Rock Bottom Brewery is seeking an 11-month paid vacation for its downtown eatery, arguing the restaurant's survival is threatened by the $42 million renovation of Fountain Square.

 

"The renovations will lead to a drastic reduction of Rock Bottom's business and will almost certainly result in the closure of the restaurant," said attorney Robert Zimmerman in an Aug. 16 letter to lawyers for the city of Cincinnati, the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) and Fifth Third Bank.

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2005/09/19/tidbits1.html

^ I just don't see it happening.  That would lead to an onslaught of lawsuits by other businesses in the area that say taking away the Fountain Square parking is going to hurt their businesses.

 

BTW...here's the image from yesterday's Enquirer story, showing what is going to be done when:

they didnt waste any time today...by lunch they had "the boys" off and loaded on the truck, the flag mast coming down, scaffolding to the top of the fountain and a "security" fence that wouldnt keep a tubleweed out

I thought the gigantic Video Board was just an idea, but they have several renderings that are about 4'x5' along the square's construction zone displaying the Video Board on top of Macy's! Just guessing while looking at the renderings and then looking at the top of Macy's, it looks like it's going to be huge!

I wonder if the Rock Bottom situation help speed things up on getting the fountain rennovation started?

well im glad they did...getting the project past a point of return is important because of rock bottom and to prevent a new mayer from pulling the plug 

Lunch crowd finds Square off-limits

$42 million refurbishing is to make it inviting

 

By Marla Matzer Rose

Enquirer staff writer

 

DOWNTOWN - Cincinnatians debated the plan to renovate Fountain Square in public, business and government forums for months. Yet the beginning of the $42 million reconstruction project on Monday, starting with the sealing off of the square with a sign-draped chain-link fence, took some by surprise.

 

"I really didn't know this was starting today," said Federico Barriga of Hyde Park, a downtown office worker who often lunches on the square.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050920/NEWS01/509200356/1056

I read the article mentioned above in the Enquirer this morning.  To me, it proves that Cincinnatians do not keep up with events in their own city.  How can people, espeically those who work down town, not know that construction on the square was to begin on MOnday?  This has been in the media for so long.  Also, I sign a sign in the elevator of a parking garage mentioning this.

Well, the only person who did not know it would be under construction was from Springdale. The others were just angry or did not know it would begin today. I think people might not pay attention because they don't have much of an interest in the subject, even though they may be glad to see it. Most times I have no clue who the Bengals are playing, but when I hear they won, I am pleased. I bet those people are better versed on sports or theater downtown than construction.

I read the article mentioned above in the Enquirer this morning.  To me, it proves that Cincinnatians do not keep up with events in their own city.  How can people, espeically those who work down town, not know that construction on the square was to begin on MOnday?  This has been in the media for so long.  Also, I sign a sign in the elevator of a parking garage mentioning this.

 

I had the same thought reading the article. Then I wondered how many people were interviewed  that actually knew the plan was to start Monday, but weren't included in the article because it didn't add any controversy.

Trust me, there are still plenty of people who have no idea it's going on.