I don't think the pencil drawing was the Helmut Jahn design.  There was a different model that had an overhang in the direction of the fountain.

 

I'll never forget Gary Burbank's "Big Bad Jahn" skit. 

 

Actually, both of these were Jahn's designs.

 

 

The top looks like a Postermodern Chrysler Tower. That's not a good thing.

 

The bottom however would have been a game changer for Cincinnati's architecture scene. Cincinnati has heaps of great historic architecture (obviously) but doesn't have any signature modern towers of any style really. I've grown to sort of love Queen City Square in a way I can't explain, but I'd never call its design a signature design that would be recognized outside of the city as anything special.

 

I'd love to see Macy's and Saks replaced with mixed use towers and as a sign of progress, an Amazon store to open in the base of the Macy's spot. Fronting Fountain Square. It would be a really public show of modernizing and stepping into the 21st century.

^jmicha,

 

 

It's funny because I would say I love the top one you say is post modern Chrysler, shows how I don't know much about architecture! 

No, you are allowed your own personal opinions! My belief is that even though I dislike many styles of architecture, that they should still exist because they show different ideas, reflect their era, add variety, etc. I personally wouldn't design them or want to occupy them, but I respect their existence (even if I'd rather have the bottom haha).

The pencil drawing really highlights how much easier it was to see the fountain from your car in the old configuration.

The pencil drawing really highlights how much easier it was to see the fountain from your car in the old configuration.

 

I think they took a few designer liberties with that as it wasn't that close to the edge of the street (it was aligned with 5th street as i recall) and it was higher elevation wise maybe 4-5ft above the street level. It was certainly that noticeable from the car though.

I like the Jahn building. It reminds me a bit of the Key Bank Tower and the Georgia Pacific Building in Atlanta.

^^^^ What the heck is that grey building in the lower right corner of the second rendering? And are those... trolleybus wires??

 

That is a still from a video that came out in the late 90's early 2000's or so where the 'old cincinnati' changed building by building into the 'future cincinnati'. This just caught it at a blending point. I remember being quite amazed at it at the time having never seen 'old Cincinnati' in 3d before.

 

 

Did that rendering come from here? https://www.midweststudios.com/pages/project/2551/Unbuilt-Cincinnati/?DetailsType=ATOZ

C'mon. No one wants the Ewok Village proposal?

 

I do

Actually, both of these were Jahn's designs.

 

 

That's a 1986 Buick Regal at left center, I'm guessing. 

 

Yes, it is:

With Massive Potential State Tax Credit, nuCLEus Could Be Back

Posted By Sam Allard on Fri, Mar 23, 2018 at 10:43 am

 

Recent testimony by a Stark Enterprises executive at the Ohio Statehouse suggests that the nuCLEus project is still in the works. Stark Vice President Steven Coven testified in support of House Bill 469, a bill sponsored by Rep. Tom Patton, (R-Strongsville) and Rep. Ken Schuring (R-North Canton), which would provide a 10 percent tax credit to new "transformational" mixed-use development projects, or TMUDs.

 

https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2018/03/23/with-massive-potential-state-tax-credit-nucleus-could-be-back

 

Could this help redevelop the old Macy's building? 

^Perhaps. However, I know it won’t be popular on this board, but I’m starting to think a height limit of 20 stories would serve us better and modulate projects to our weak demand. We’re gonna have a lot of holes to fill downtown within the next 5-10 years.

^Eh, I think on this spot we could go higher.  I understand your point completely, but we have 2 x 20 stories already on the 7th at Broadway and Kroger, and the upcoming 4th and Race whenever that happens (probably when Cranley is done assuming Smitherman isn't elected :o).  Also the Banks Office Pad will probably get 20 stories no?  I think in the high density spot like that we can go for 400-500' assuming we can get a big time office user in there (I think there is a couple big companies in the burbs looking for new HQ if I'm not mistaken).

 

How many office users does a place like 5/3rd center or maybe even US Bank Building?  I think something like US Bank Building or 50-100' taller on that side would work well, but just wondering how many employees that would need at least to make a mixed use work?

You can only go like 6-8 stories at the banks.  GE had to get special permission to do their 12.  So you definitely won't be seeing any 20 story buildings there. 

You can only go like 6-8 stories at the banks.  GE had to get special permission to do their 12.  So you definitely won't be seeing any 20 story buildings there. 

 

The building proposed for the phase 1 pad is taller than that and always has been planned to be.

 

http://thebankscincy.com/attractions/180-walnut/

 

The height limits are different on different blocks I believe.

Galaxy brain idea: Tear down the Fountain Place building and move Fountain Square itself west across Vine Street.

 

Bad idea, or good idea but just too expensive?

Galaxy brain idea: Tear down the Fountain Place building and move Fountain Square itself west across Vine Street.

 

Bad idea, or good idea but just too expensive?

What would the advantage be? What are you hoping to accomplish? Seems extremely expensive and I don’t see any practical benefit. The Fountain Place structure is solid and can serve as the base for a taller building. Doesn’t seem like you’d gain much by tearing it down. And moving the fountain a block doesn’t make sense. The current layout of Fountain Square is quite nice, where the Square only has streets on 2 sides. The buildings to the north and east provide a sense of enclosure that makes the Square a pleasant place to hang out. Even the Via Vite structure helps be enclosing the shady grove of trees, making a nice place to sit at a table.

Would love to see a significant retail portion on the first floor and 2nd floor, with hotel ballroom space on 2nd & 3rd floors. Add about 5-7  levels of parking above that. then a 10-15 stories in office, 15-20 stories in hotel and 5-10 stories of penthouse apartments to top it off.

 

I know that wont happen, but would be a great use for the property.

Yeah something like a Bangkok style tower with 4-5 retail stores and at least 40 stories, 500', would be best obviously if it was offices for a new user in town. I've been downtown quite a bit lately and we really need the 4th and Race spot built. I almost have to wonder after 4th and Race if a lot of that area around Elm and Central Parkway should be a focus area, alas, probably not until we get some more significant growth in offices downtown.

 

The one thing though is the Findlay Market area is really booming along with OTR in general so that's good!

Galaxy brain idea: Tear down the Fountain Place building and move Fountain Square itself west across Vine Street.

 

Bad idea, or good idea but just too expensive?

What would the advantage be? What are you hoping to accomplish? Seems extremely expensive and I don’t see any practical benefit. The Fountain Place structure is solid and can serve as the base for a taller building. Doesn’t seem like you’d gain much by tearing it down. And moving the fountain a block doesn’t make sense. The current layout of Fountain Square is quite nice, where the Square only has streets on 2 sides. The buildings to the north and east provide a sense of enclosure that makes the Square a pleasant place to hang out. Even the Via Vite structure helps be enclosing the shady grove of trees, making a nice place to sit at a table.

 

I agree with all the points you make here (I actually thought the idea was over the top- thus the reference to the galaxy brain meme.) I think it’s an interesting thought experiment for the following:  1) if you were working with a half block (south half of the block between Race and Vine) larger space from scratch, could you design a space that functions better than the current Fountain Square and 2) the effects on the surrounding blocks of moving the center of town to the west a block.

 

Issues with the current square that I’ve read: 1) overshadowed by surrounding buildings 2) stage placement creates barrier against Vine Street. I’ll add 3) the square does not seem naturally active weeknights when there is no programming going on. (I’ll admit that I don’t get to see it at lunchtime and the summertime programming schedule is very full.) I don’t know if being one block west would solve #1 (would still get Carew tower shadows) and #3 probably can’t be solved by the space itself- probably would require a more active higher population downtown in general. A larger space too would be a double edged sword- it could accommodate larger crowds but be tougher to activate when nothing is happening.

 

Main drawbacks to the moving idea include 1) Fountain Place building solid as you mention with quality materials- walked past it yesterday and noticed this too 2) If the Square was moved, I don’t know I you could build a structure over the top of the existing Fountain Square garage  and 3) wouldn’t be good for the current businesses facing the square.

 

I think any gains would be marginal compared to the costs.

The best thing you could do for fountain square is remove the skybridge that crosses 5th street.

The best thing you could do for fountain square is remove the skybridge that crosses 5th street.

I used to be firmly "anti-skybridge"... but at this point there are only a few remaining skybridges, and I don't really mind the ones that remain. This skybridge on 5th St is well designed, with all glass walls and ceiling. It feels "light" in design and doesn't overpower the street.

That SKybridge is pretty insignificant now. With Tower Place and Macy's a tihing of the past now, there is minimal foot traffic in that bridge. Leaving it is not a huge deal

From a standpoint of visibility from the street and making a grander progression, more would be gained from removing that bridge than removing the Macy's building.

That SKybridge is pretty insignificant now. With Tower Place and Macy's a tihing of the past now, there is minimal foot traffic in that bridge. Leaving it is not a huge deal

 

For the same reasons you could say that removing it is not a huge deal.

When it was built McAlpin's had just closed.  There was a bridge over Fourth St. that was removed around 2010.  So if everything had worked out, a bunch of cross traffic between McAlpin's, Lazarus, Sak's, and Nordstrom would have traveled through Tower Place Mall on the second floor.  Instead, McAlpin's closed as Lazarus was under construction, and then the deal for the downtown Nordstrom on the site of what is now Dunhumby collapsed in fall of 2000. 

What if they turned old Macy’s into a fitness place such as crunch or planet? Make it a two story with 10-15 floors of apartments on top? I feel like downtown/OTR has the ymca and a few other smaller gyms but they do not really have any cheaper alternatives.

What if they turned old Macy’s into a fitness place such as crunch or planet? Make it a two story with 10-15 floors of apartments on top? I feel like downtown/OTR has the ymca and a few other smaller gyms but they do not really have any cheaper alternatives.

There is Snap Fitness on 7th street, which is open 24/7.

 

 

What if they turned old Macy’s into a fitness place such as crunch or planet? Make it a two story with 10-15 floors of apartments on top? I feel like downtown/OTR has the ymca and a few other smaller gyms but they do not really have any cheaper alternatives.

There is Snap Fitness on 7th street, which is open 24/7.

 

That Snap has been closed for a few months now, unfortunately for me since I used to go there. I believe they merged with Carew Tower Fitness.

What if they turned old Macy’s into a fitness place such as crunch or planet? Make it a two story with 10-15 floors of apartments on top? I feel like downtown/OTR has the ymca and a few other smaller gyms but they do not really have any cheaper alternatives.

There is Snap Fitness on 7th street, which is open 24/7.

 

That Snap has been closed for a few months now, unfortunately for me since I used to go there. I believe they merged with Carew Tower Fitness.

 

Interesting. Is that probably related to the planned renovation of the building? Are the other tenants also out? I know the PNC branch is still open on the corner.

Snap closed several months ago and it appears unrelated to the recently-announced renovation of the buildings into apartments. The new owner did announce that they are trying to full the retail space with businesses like a "high end speakeasy" that will utilize the original Provident Bank vault in the basement.

Palominos will be closing at the end of October. Stated it was due to leasing issues. Does anyone think that the owner is forcing everyone out so they can get the building redeveloped?

That seems to most definitely be the case!

"Forcing everyone out" sounds like they were doing that to Brooks Bros., Macy's, and Tiffany. I'm guessing they are doing it to Palomino because Macy's leaving indicates it's time to do something else with the property. I wonder how long the book store's lease is for.

The bookstore would actually be a loss for that area. 

Are there any rumors about what the development plan is?

 

Hopefully a 22 story tower with 200 plus apartments is still the idea in mind for that parcel.

Are there any rumors about what the development plan is?

 

Hopefully a 22 story tower with 200 plus apartments is still the idea in mind for that parcel.

 

I think a hotel/apartment combo would work really well. Hopefully it will not be anything less than 20 floors.

I think it would fit a 20 story tower on that pad. I think that is 20 office floors though so it could be more if it were apartment/hotel.

 

Would love to see a huge hotel/apartment/garage/retail/office tower and garage complex.

 

I know it is nice to dream.

How large is the existing parking garage?  I wonder if the base of the building was designed so as to permit more parking levels 2-5~.  From the Carew Tower observation deck you can see the space for elevator shafts. 

It is just one level under the store front. Prob about 150-20 spaces giving the footprint.

 

I would love to add about 3-6 levels of parking on top of the storefronts. Then add 10-15 story office tower, Then add about a 20 story hotel, 10 floors of apartment/condo at the very top.

 

It would never come to fruition but nice to dream. 

I'd love to see a 50 story building in the heart of Cincinnati, but based on what the rest of downtown the 10 floors of apartments/condos is the only part I see as plausible. Hotel investment is all going to be focused on convention expansion at either Millenium or 4th/plum, and office hasn't gotten off the ground at 2nd/Walnut for a decade.

I have never parked in the garage.  I remember when the surface lot was there in the early 90s.  It's amazing how brief the entire 1990s plan actually existed.  McAlpin's, I believe, closed a few months before Lazarus opened, so the full plan might not have existed at all.  But it was pretty forward-thinking and a very solid plan when they linked Tower Place, the arcade, McAlpin's, Sak's, Lazarus, and then the planned Nordstrom.  The whole thing came within inches of actually happening.

 

I still contend that the opening of Cross County Highway in 1997 paved the way (literally) for Kenwood to dominate the suburban malls and undermine downtown.  Suddenly everyone from Finneytown west to Colerain and even Harrison could get to Kenwood very easily -- at least as easily if not much more easily than downtown.   

I'm not sure if this software exists, but is there a program that lets you simulate where the top of a build would be visible from? For example if there was a building 750' at 5th and Vine you could see it from this red-shaded area on the map?

 

I've always thought there was more fragmentation and parochialism in Cincinnati due to the geography 1. actually dividing up people into clear neighborhoods and 2. blocking out the downtown skyline for most of the city, which prevents the daily reinforcement of "oh yeah, Cincinnati" 

Not quite what you're asking, but if you download Sketchup you can geosync your model that you build, save as a google earth file, and open in google earth which will allow for you to tell where it's visible from. It isn't all encompassing like you're looking for, but you can pick specific spots and see if it's visible. It's also great for concept renderings since you can align your view from sketchup with real world images and insert your model into photographs via photoshop or other like programs.

Not quite what you're asking, but if you download Sketchup you can geosync your model that you build, save as a google earth file, and open in google earth which will allow for you to tell where it's visible from. It isn't all encompassing like you're looking for, but you can pick specific spots and see if it's visible. It's also great for concept renderings since you can align your view from sketchup with real world images and insert your model into photographs via photoshop or other like programs.

 

I'll try to figure out what those words mean and give it a shot.

Does anyone have any potential scoop on the type of redevelopment they are cooking up for this site? I know it would be extremely preliminary but interested In hearing nonetheless

Not quite what you're asking, but if you download Sketchup you can geosync your model that you build, save as a google earth file, and open in google earth which will allow for you to tell where it's visible from. It isn't all encompassing like you're looking for, but you can pick specific spots and see if it's visible. It's also great for concept renderings since you can align your view from sketchup with real world images and insert your model into photographs via photoshop or other like programs.

 

I'll try to figure out what those words mean and give it a shot.

 

Haha, message me if you're ever interested. It's a fairly simple process to at least get a super generic box of a certain size/height into google earth to get a general idea of how it would look.

Can't they turn the Macy's space into three levels of parking and keep the other stores/restaurants?  The building is already set up for a 20 story tower.  Seems like a waste to start over. 

I don't know that it's really worth keeping the base now that Macy's is gone and it'll have to be completely reconfigured anyway, either into parking or split up into multiple spaces. It's probably about the same cost to just take it down to ground level and start again.