Did you notice any sort of sewage smell when they connected the old lines running north/south into the new line?

Man it sure would help the neighborhood if they could reroute the freight traffic off those rails!

They pulled out the 3rd set of rails (someone told me what the name for that little accessory track is ... probably in this thread but I forget  :drunk: ) .  Anyway. That third set of tracks is yanked out.

 

It's called the West Park Secondary and serves as an industrial runner for shippers in the West 110th area and points southwest along the main toward West Park Yard at Lorain Street Interlocking (yep, the railroad still calls it "street").

 

Anyhoo....

Considering the sewer is already backfilled at Frascati & 69th to 73rd, they should have that street put back together relatively soon, right?

 

Has anyone over there gotten any sort of update from the Councilman or ODOT on when some of that will be restored?

Did you notice any sort of sewage smell when they connected the old lines running north/south into the new line?

 

Nope.  I am very sensitive to "garbage stink" too.

Considering the sewer is already backfilled at Frascati & 69th to 73rd, they should have that street put back together relatively soon, right?

 

Has anyone over there gotten any sort of update from the Councilman or ODOT on when some of that will be restored?

 

Just my speculation but ...

 

Wouldn't they wait to rebuild until after the RR tacks were re-routed, the tunnel constructed, and the RR tracks replaced to their original location?

^I guess but Caruso is going to be a dead end at 70th and won't really be affected by the tunnel excavation.  Still a full block away from the planned excavation at 73rd.  I would think the city/ODOT would be somewhat obligated to restore that street sooner than later.

 

I know that 73rd is getting pounded to bits by all the truck traffic serving the project already.  The street was already marginal condition and now it's going to hell.  Can't imagine what it will look like next spring.

North side of the tracks is completely clear cut where this interchange is going.  Looks so bare. 

North side of the tracks is completely clear cut where this interchange is going.  Looks so bare. 

 

Yes it does. Hope the folks living along the south side of the tracks are enjoying their view!

Sorry to ask a question that may have been answered.  I can't seem to find it.  Is this the begining of the complete conversion into a Blvd, or is this just a small phase with future funding for the remaining yet to be secured?

Sorry to ask a question that may have been answered.  I can't seem to find it.  Is this the begining of the complete conversion into a Blvd, or is this just a small phase with future funding for the remaining yet to be secured?

 

I believe it is fully funded. See my Dec. 14 post above, with a direct link at:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,3301.msg688022.html#msg688022

 

However I see no references to a landscaped median. There is a brief mention of a median below, but is this is a landscaped median? Or it is replacing the existing concrete barrier median. The major component of the project is referenced at the link above with the Project Identification (PID) #86482, carries a $34.16 million cost. While it doesn't specifically mention a median in that brief description, this provides a little more detail......

 

http://www.noaca.org/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=3355

 

CUY US 6 -12.20 PAVEMENT: PID No. 86482 - This project is listed on page 68 of the NOACA TIP. The project involves the replacement of existing US 6 mainline pavement, from Clifton Boulevard to the Main Avenue bridge, including ramps to and from West Boulevard and a multi-purpose trail along the north side of US 6, in Cleveland. The estimate has increased due to additional work required with new stakeholder Cleveland Metroparks, modifications with the alignment of the multipurpose trail within the Edgewater Park and lighting design requiring two lines of lighting (on the outside of the roadway) instead of one (down the median) as originally planned.

Answers to all things related to this project are contained here:  http://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/ClevelandUrbanCoreProjects/LakefrontWest/Pages/default.aspx

 

From the front section of that page: The Lakefront West Project will increase access to Lake Erie, improve green space, biking and pedestrian facilities, increase development potential and simplify connections along the now limited-access freeway. During Phase II of the proposed project, this 2.5 mile freeway will be transformed into a scenic, tree-lined boulevard.

Does that mean at grade intersections?

I don't see any.  I could be wrong though. I always assume that i'm missing something big because, to me, I looks like they are just adding pavers and trees and lowering the speed limit

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/ClevelandUrbanCoreProjects/LakefrontWest/Presentations/Documents/LakefrontWest_CLE%20CPC_2013.11.15_compressed.pdf

 

Thanks! Ladybird Johnson would be proud! Her calls for highway beautification live on!

I'm not great with the terminology, but does that mean there won't be any traffic signals if there aren't any at-grade intersections? That's the only way their prediction that lowering the speed limit to 35 mph will only add 75 seconds of transit time makes sense to me.

 

Also I'm having a hard time following the details of this. Is there a timeline for when the conversion will start? Will it be possible to keep it open during the conversion? I live on Edgewater and need to seriously evaluate if I need to relocate to the East side if this is happening soon.

 

no at-grade intersections or new traffic signals.  timeline for the conversion is on the link I posted.  I'm sure the road will remain open during the conversion, it's 6-7 lanes wide so it can safely be reduced by 2 lanes during construction/conversion to a boulevard

Thanks. I'm sure it's totally obvious but I can't find the timeline?

I see the w28th and w45th safety improvements are supposed to be complete by summer 2015 (thank god, that 28th entrance is a daily terror).

 

Mainline improvements are still in planning phase, to be done spring 2014. I guess this is what I'm most interested in, is there anything more than this buried somewhere? It'll probably be concurrent with the w28/45th improvements though?

Am I the only one who doesn't know what the point of this project is?  what is the benefit of lowering speeds on a limited access road that will not have a sidewalk or crosswalks?  if there is no increased access, what is this really being converted into?

Am I the only one who doesn't know what the point of this project is?  what is the benefit of lowering speeds on a limited access road that will not have a sidewalk or crosswalks?  if there is no increased access, what is this really being converted into?

 

Amen.  There is a failure in our leadership to push this through to its full vision.  It's allowing us to be subjected to the usual ODOT mentality.  This project should be put into action, including bike paths and at-grade intersections. 

Am I the only one who doesn't know what the point of this project is?  what is the benefit of lowering speeds on a limited access road that will not have a sidewalk or crosswalks?  if there is no increased access, what is this really being converted into?

I was wondering this myself after learning there aren't intersections. Is it perhaps a first step?

 

I don't particularly have a problem with reducing the speed, people drive way too fast on the shoreway as it is. And perhaps makes it less intimidating to build up to?

http://gizmodo.com/6-freeway-demolitions-that-changed-their-cities-forever-1548314937

 

If u are wondering about why they are doing this, read this article.  We all know highways have ruined neighborhoods, but here are some examples of getting rid of them to make cities better. Think Embarcedero in San Fran

My point is that they are not actually getting rid of the highway.  They are planting trees around it and calling it a boulevard.  I agree that truly converting the highway and enhancing access to it would be a great thing, they just aren't doing it though.

 

They are keeping the exit ramps, they are not adding any more entrance points.  the only good thing about the project is that they are revamping the tunnels.  the fact that there are tunnels, however, helps prove that they are not converting the highway into a street.

^can't please everyone

 

For everyone dying for "at grade intersections", just look at the cost of the 73rd intersection.  About $40 million.  Now there's already access a half mile up at 49th/Tillman and a half mile down at Clifton/Lake.  Nothing is gained by adding more intersections.  It won't create more development, it will just waste money

I'm saying, either do it or don't.  what is wasting money is completely revamping the freeway and having the end product be what it already is.  If they want it to be a boulevard, make it a boulevard. If they want it to be a highway, keep it like it is.  don't pour a ton of money something that isn't really changing.

Am I the only one who doesn't know what the point of this project is?  what is the benefit of lowering speeds on a limited access road that will not have a sidewalk or crosswalks?  if there is no increased access, what is this really being converted into?

I agree, I don't understand this project now.  It sounds more like Route 21 going through Massillon versus the Blvd I was hoping for.  Why would you make people drive 35 miles per hour on a road without red lights, or cross walks.  This makes absolutely no sense to me.

Makes no sense. Why are we wasting so much money on a highway beautification project? Lowering speeds seems complex pointless

I'm saying, either do it or don't.  what is wasting money is completely revamping the freeway and having the end product be what it already is.  If they want it to be a boulevard, make it a boulevard. If they want it to be a highway, keep it like it is.  don't pour a ton of money something that isn't really changing.

 

Hold your judgement till the project is complete before you say it isn't really changing.  I think the end result is going to be pretty dramatic.  Lowering the speeds allows them to remove the concrete barrier and replace it with a landscape median.  THere will also be multi use paths that come up closer to the roadway.  Again, something you can't do with cars traveling at 50+ mph.  Is it the same as a street with intersections?  No, but it's certainly not a highway either.

^Agreed. There is only so much funding. With this project and the involvement of the MetroParks, the whole area will take on a new personality when finished. Definitely worth it.

Add me to the list of somebody who does not understand this project and its goals.  Not what I thought it was going to be.

The original project from 2003 was for it to be a boulevard, then there was no funding for everything but pedestrian tunnels and 73rd interchange.  Then last fall Governor Kasich secured unused transportation money from another state and announced he is funding the 45 mph boulevard. That's the latest, scheduled to begin this Spring. Goal is to eliminate the freeway as a barrier from neighborhoods to lake. This boulevard will have multiple pedestrian crossings to get from residential to lake

^In case there were ppl who thought this was staying a highway

This project is nothing without at grade intersections and pedestrian crossings. It is good to hear we are getting more than just trees and closer pathways.

For everyone dying for "at grade intersections", just look at the cost of the 73rd intersection.  About $40 million.  Now there's already access a half mile up at 49th/Tillman and a half mile down at Clifton/Lake.  Nothing is gained by adding more intersections.  It won't create more development, it will just waste money

 

You are so wrong.

Point is, by compromising in an attempt to please everyone, ODOT ends up with a project that pleases no one.

For everyone dying for "at grade intersections", just look at the cost of the 73rd intersection.  About $40 million.  Now there's already access a half mile up at 49th/Tillman and a half mile down at Clifton/Lake.  Nothing is gained by adding more intersections.  It won't create more development, it will just waste money

 

You are so wrong.

 

I agree.  More connections will increase the development in Detroit Shoreway, and, more importantly in the area of Cudell between Clifton and Detroit (which has gone rapidly downhill over the last 15 years).

 

Cleveland's biggest problem is it's lack of connected neighborhoods.  Everything is a pocket of pioneers, started with a few tax abatements.  We need these neighborhoods to fully connect if we ever want viable schools, etc again.

Not everyone wants to live on a street that connects directly to a main commuter artery.  An argument could be made that most prefer not to. 

- West Blvd ties right into the Shoreway and & Edgewater.  No new development there & some lots still sit there vacant for the last decade or more. 

- W 65th has an amazing pedestrian tunnel for the last decade & looks pretty much the same (lousy) as it did before. 

- W 49th & Tillman ties into the Shoreway & has the 1 development that was done about 15 years ago.  The rest of it looks terrible.

- W 73rd will be the main connector for Gordon Square but it will be open next year.  No new property transfers, development plans or projects announced there.

 

So tell me again what makes you so sure that at grade intersections is a gold mine?

 

The entire argument is irrelevant anyhow.  The only reason the intersection at 73rd was possible is because of all the vacant undeveloped land for Battery Park which allowed the massive sewer line to be relocated south about 75 yards.  The same thing couldn't be done all along the proposed locations for connections. 

 

Not to mention the barrier posed by the RR tracks which would require incredibly expensive bridges.

 

Or the barrier of the 60-70' grade drop which would require massive excavation & grade changes.

 

Edit:  I forgot to add that the easiest proposed intersection was at 54th.  Didn't involve RR tracks or the sewer connection.  It was scratched from the plans because the businesses & neighbors there told ODOT they didn't want it.  They didn't want the added traffic of having a direct connection to the Shoreway.  And now there's several major projects in the pipeline for this area of 58th, which has no direct connection. 

 

 

 

If it has exit and entrance ramps, you can't call it a boulevard, it's a freeway

For everyone dying for "at grade intersections", just look at the cost of the 73rd intersection.  About $40 million.  Now there's already access a half mile up at 49th/Tillman and a half mile down at Clifton/Lake.  Nothing is gained by adding more intersections.  It won't create more development, it will just waste money

 

You are so wrong.

 

I agree.  More connections will increase the development in Detroit Shoreway, and, more importantly in the area of Cudell between Clifton and Detroit (which has gone rapidly downhill over the last 15 years).

 

Cleveland's biggest problem is it's lack of connected neighborhoods.  Everything is a pocket of pioneers, started with a few tax abatements.  We need these neighborhoods to fully connect if we ever want viable schools, etc again.

 

I don't think the Shoreway conversion helps Cudell too much directly. It's already connected to the lake via West Blvd and to a lesser extent the newly redone pedestrian connections across from Don's Lighthouse and then the next connection at Battery Park. I think it will be a long, painstaking process to see revitalization from the intersection of Detroit and Lake Avenues down to the West Blvd rapid stop. It's not as if the Shoreway is a barrier from connecting D/S to Cudell, just drive/walk/bike/bus down Detroit Avenue, there's no physical barrier.

 

I think Cudell has a much better chance at revitalizing through TOD at the rapid stops at 117th and West Blvd than hoping for D/S spillover that may take decades to come, but that's another thread. But yes, indirectly, the faster D/S redevelops, the faster that can potentially spread outward.

 

I think a lot of people are looking at the Shoreway conversion as a cure all pill. It will surely have some benefits, but I don't believe it's some magic drug that will cure all of the west side of Cleveland's problems. There's only so much demand for new housing in a city/region like Cleveland that's shrinking. If every neighborhood could be revitalized it would be. But because demand here is limited, all the other neighborhoods wait and wait.

Punch, good point but I'm not 100% sure about ramps since Kasich pledged the remaining $. I thought the initial plans included intersections and were adjusted to lack of funding. But now the money is there so I don't know

How about this. 'Plans are currently being prepared and will be released in the Spring of 2014'. A lot of the things you guys are commenting on from that PDF are 4 years old. And although it's hard to believe from looking outside, it's almost spring... 8-)

I'm saying, either do it or don't.  what is wasting money is completely revamping the freeway and having the end product be what it already is.  If they want it to be a boulevard, make it a boulevard. If they want it to be a highway, keep it like it is.  don't pour a ton of money something that isn't really changing.

 

Hold your judgement till the project is complete before you say it isn't really changing.  I think the end result is going to be pretty dramatic.  Lowering the speeds allows them to remove the concrete barrier and replace it with a landscape median.  THere will also be multi use paths that come up closer to the roadway.  Again, something you can't do with cars traveling at 50+ mph.  Is it the same as a street with intersections?  No, but it's certainly not a highway either.

 

I get that people are disappointed that this won't be a true "boulevard," but I agree that the changes you list are indeed pretty awesome and shouldn't be poo-pooed.

^ ok if there is still room for rail/brt down the middle someday. is there?

^OK let's not get crazy now.

The rail line is on the bluff.  Brt - streetcar would be so much better down Detroit

 

I do hope they plan to have the 55 stop at 73rd though. And run it evenings and weekends

^great point about the 55.

The rail line is on the bluff.  Brt - streetcar would be so much better down Detroit

 

I do hope they plan to have the 55 stop at 73rd though. And run it evenings and weekends

 

Some of the older plans with the boulevard/intersections showed bus stops at various places along the Shoreway. I haven't seen them in the current plans. BTW, I would like to bus pull-off/stations at West 73rd and just east of the Westinghouse Curve. And given the investment of Enhance Clifton, I suspect the FTA will urge GCRTA to run the #55 at least at half-hour frequencies during the mid-day, with late-evening and weekend service. The feds don't like to make investments like this without it being used with such limited transit service, as the #55 does now.

 

As for a streetcar on Detroit Avenue? I think we will have a discussion thread on this soon.

City Planning Commission

Agenda for April 4, 2014

 

Ordinance No. 388-14(Ward 3/Councilmember Cimperman and Ward 15/Councilmember Zone): To change the name of a portion of Bulkley Boulevard, aka Cleveland Memorial Shoreway West, to Edgewater Parkway.

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2014/04042014/index.php

There were two names floating out there.  The other was horrible and this was the obvious choice.