That ramp is one lane right now, with a lot of work currently underway on it.  That work will end, presumably in less than 10 years, at which point 90's capacity will be doubled from what it is at this moment.  A little bit of coordination would go a long way toward defusing complaints that people have raised about the shoreway project. 

 

It's one thing to point out that commuter concerns can't always win, but it's another to screw commuters unnecessarily.  Starting this now without regard to I-90's status smacks of the latter.  And ultimately, screwing downtown commuters also screws downtown, in its competition with other office markets.  Regardless of overall intent, we're talking about an avoidable increase in the number of people who get upset about going downtown.  All I'm saying is that the timing should have been planned out better, for everyone's sake.

 

I drove it today at 7:30 am.  No backups, the slowdowns were causing commuters to actually do the speed limit of 40 (as opposed to the 65 MPH they were doing yesterday afternoon when I drove it).

 

Your sentiments probably have some validity with the diehard suburbanite commuters, who think nothing less than a 8 lane highway directly to their office with a free parking space is what their tax money supports. 

 

There could also be a segment of this population who looks at living or staying downtown, or closer to downtown, or using RTA, etc instead of packing up an office of people and moving out of dodge over a temporary inconvenience. 

 

 

I guess I have lost track of the actual final design of the project.  I'm starting to think it is more aesthetic than functional.  In the end, will a developer be able to have egress and ingress off of the Shoreway for a residential or commercial development project?  if in fact this is a boulevard, then they should be allowed to zone in that fashion.  How many new intersections are being added to allow better access to the lakefront? 

As far as I remember, they will still have exit ramps and tunnels to access the lake. 

Then I'm confused as to why they slowed down the speed limit.  I don't think that I see any RTA transit stops scheduled along the road, nor will any entrance or exit ramps be added.  The Shoreway, when completed, will look nicer then Chester, but even less functional from a design standpoint than Chester.  I just feel this is a missed opportunity. 

^The Shoreway will still be a limited access highway, so no abutting parcels will have direct access (i.e., no new curb cuts) and there will be no bus stops.

 

There are several goals of the overall project (1) improving the accessibility of the lakefront from nearby neighborhoods, which has been addressed through a new pedestrian tunnel at W76th and the new vehicular/pedestrian underpass at W73rd; (2) improving circulation along the waterfront, which means a new off-street multipurpose trail that will connect West 25th/Detroit to Edgewater Park (3) beautification of the Shoreway, which means removing/narrowing some lanes and building a planted median, so it looks more like a parkway and less like a high way, and slowing traffic so it makes less noise pollution; and (4) improving the condition and safety of the Shoreway, which means repaving some portions (I think), improving drainage to prevent wet spots and future deterioration, and re-engineering some of the exit/entrance ramps for better traffic flow.

 

 

Then I'm confused as to why they slowed down the speed limit.  I don't think that I see any RTA transit stops scheduled along the road, nor will any entrance or exit ramps be added.  The Shoreway, when completed, will look nicer then Chester, but even less functional from a design standpoint than Chester.  I just feel this is a missed opportunity. 

 

It felt to me as an ODOT bargain.  They agreed to the reduction in speed, but not removal of the ramps, or adding at-grade intersections.  In the end it should be an improvement still on the quality of life in the area, and might someday lead to a full conversion.  Maybe all the way to the muni lots if the Main Ave Bridge gets to the end of it's life span  :wink:

Have you guys been noticing how extensive the work has been to add the 73rd street underpass?  Between the railroad tracks and the elevation change from the neighboring streets, I'm not sure the idea of adding at-grade intersections was ever very practical.

 

EDIT: and I should add, before following along in this thread, I definitely didn't appreciate just how big a project it was to punch through a single roadway connection.

Ken Prendergast ‏@KennyPeepers  33m33 minutes ago

Clearing of underbrush from along Cleveland's West Shoreway, to be converted from freeway to landscaped boulevard.

 

If I remember right that underbrush looked pretty good. Wasn't it all just cattails and coastal grasses?

that picture perfectly illustrates an area very ripe for redevelopment.  Either townhomes or new single family.  That street has a rare combination of great views and lousy housing stock

I agree that intersections, pedestrian crosswalks, and development are not feasible for the shoreway.  So, if it must remain a limited access road that was engineered for freeway speeds, what is the benefit from reducing the speed limit? 

 

I agree that intersections, pedestrian crosswalks, and development are not feasible for the shoreway.  So, if it must remain a limited access road that was engineered for freeway speeds, what is the benefit from reducing the speed limit? 

 

 

Off the top of my head, it will reduce noise and also create less of a physical barrier between Detroit-Shoreway and the park. Also, Edgewater abuts right up to the edge of the Shoreway, and there is no fence separating the two. It will create a more pleasant experience for those utilizing the southern end of the park.

 

Edit: That doesn't mean I think it will be followed. I drove up and down Lakeshore Dr. in Chicago a few weeks ago, which has a 40 mph speed limit as well as some street lights, yet people were easily going 70 MPH

^^Just because it's going to be limted access, doesn't mean it will still be engineered for 60+ MPH the way it is now.  I think the beautification project involves lane narrowing and lane reductions, which may make 50 mph more appropriate (factoring in the 10 mph margin drivers routinely use). I'm just speculating though.

Two more from this evening. ODOT is stripping vegetation, including some good-sized trees, from along the roadway from Lake/Clifton all the way east to the Main Avenue Bridge....

 

 

Speed limit dropping to 35 MPH on West Shoreway today

 

 

 

Today's the day.  35 MPH.        (Not that commuters will really notice it today.  With the construction, rush hour has been a lot slower than 35 for the last couple of months)

 

 

 

Was driving the Shoreway earlier today. 35 MPH signs everywhere, but almost every driver was going 50-60+. I'll admit I was going about 45 because honestly I thought I was going to get into a crash if I actually did do 35.

 

I doubt anyone will actually drive the speed limit on this thing when it's done, and they'll continue treating it like a freeway. Stubbornness is a constant in the human psyche.

People also tend to drive what the road is built to handle.  It is limited access, has multiple lanes, and has no intersections or stoplights.  What would keep you from going 50, other than the speed limit sign?

You're right. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it might be a duck. It makes me wonder what will actually be done to make the Shoreway less "freeway-like" and encourage drivers to keep the speed down now that there won't be traffic signals or intersections. Lane narrowing, perhaps?

We have a scooter that isn't highway legal.  Wonder if the Shoreway has been officially reclassified as a road so that I could ride the scooter on it now?  Hmmmm...

We have a scooter that isn't highway legal.  Wonder if the Shoreway has been officially reclassified as a road so that I could ride the scooter on it now?  Hmmmm...

 

You may be able to, but I would wait until construction is finished.  Riding a scooter on their now would be downright dangerous with some cars doing 65 and some doing 35. 

We have a scooter that isn't highway legal.  Wonder if the Shoreway has been officially reclassified as a road so that I could ride the scooter on it now?  Hmmmm...

 

If a bike is legal (and wasn't that sort of the point?) it should be.  Probably not very safe though.

We have a scooter that isn't highway legal.  Wonder if the Shoreway has been officially reclassified as a road so that I could ride the scooter on it now?  Hmmmm...

 

If a bike is legal (and wasn't that sort of the point?) it should be.  Probably not very safe though.

 

Is a bike legal?  (On the road, not the bike path?)

 

The bike path itself is clearly marked with  "No Motorized Vehicles" signage.

We have a scooter that isn't highway legal.  Wonder if the Shoreway has been officially reclassified as a road so that I could ride the scooter on it now?  Hmmmm...

 

If a bike is legal (and wasn't that sort of the point?) it should be.  Probably not very safe though.

 

Is a bike legal?  (On the road, not the bike path?)

 

The bike path itself is clearly marked with  "No Motorized Vehicles" signage.

 

The Metroparks have "multi-purpose paths", but people still ride bikes on the road.

I emailed ODOT on this issue awhile ago:

 

Thanks for your questions!

 

Yes, you will be able to ride your bike on the re-designed Shoreway.  That said, cyclists will have to exit the boulevard at W 25th Street to continue across the Detroit-Superior Bridge.  You will not be able to ride over the Main Avenue Bridge.

 

There will be many improvements at the W 25th/Detroit intersection (see an image here). These will include a new plaza and additional sidewalks.  I’ve copied the City of Cleveland’s Chief City Planner for Urban Design & Infrastructure as well as another member of his office in case they care to add anything I’ve missed.

 

Safe & Pleasant Travels,

 

Jocelynn Clemings

 

Multipurpose paths are great for cyclists that ride for recreation, but because the path is shared with pedestrians, and runners, the path is poor for cyclists that use it for commuting purposes. Most cyclists would argue that they feel they are putting pedestrians in danger. For example, the separated path on the Lorain-Carnegie bridge is a fantastic way to travel back and forth from downtown to Ohio City, but there are often people walking, running, and stopped along the path that I have to weave in and out of. I feel safer as a commuter because I avoid automobile traffic, but by using the path I am creating an unsafe, and stressful environment for people that are using it for other reasons.

Underpass work below @nscorp tracks progresses along West Shoreway by Edgewater Park/Battery Park in Cleveland...

 

 

$95M Project to Connect Cleveland's West Side, Lakefront

By: Irwin Rapoport - CEG CORRESPONDENT

Published On: 11/7/2015

 

The Lakefront West project in Cleveland, a $95 million Ohio Department of Transportation and city of Cleveland initiative/partnership, will be completed in the summer of 2018 by the Great Lakes Construction Co. The contractor, via individual bids, is doing all three phases of the work.

 

Another contractor had been awarded the first of the project — the pedestrian tunnels — and began work initially in 2010, but ODOT decided to rebid the project after unanticipated soil conditions required a redesign of a retaining wall along the Lakefront. Great Lakes, the low bidder, was awarded the contract in the summer of 2012, and began work shortly afterwards (late summer/fall).

 

The project is connecting Cleveland’s west side neighborhoods with the lakefront by creating multi-modal connections along the West Shoreway between West Boulevard and the Main Avenue Bridge.

 

MORE:

http://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/95M-Project-to-Connect-Clevelands-West-Side-Lakefront/26592/

I'm interested to see how far over the initial budget these projects are.  The two reconfigured pedestrian tunnels at 76th & Lake Road, the big 73rd interchange and now this latest boulevard project.  I'm sure it's way over but I also think it's much more elaborate than was initially planned.  I will say that 73rd reconstruction all the way up to Detroit needs to be a part of this project.  That street was shot before the interchange ever began and now it will see 10x as much traffic.  Needs a lot more than a repaving too.  Needs entirely updated with sidewalks, lighting, trees, cross walks, etc

Yeah, they're all over budget. The shore way is currently about $62,000, W76 was $230,000 and W73 was 3.8 million!

West 73rd Update:  Lines, sharrows, lights, signs all applied yesterday

 

ODOT takes heat over potential impact of Shoreway plans on Ohio City

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – The final stage of a multiyear remake of the West Shoreway, scheduled for completion in 2017, is turning into a gift Ohio City is beginning to regret.

 

Plans by the Ohio Department of Transportation's to revamp Shoreway on- and off-ramps at West 25th, 28th and 45th streets – which nobody likes in their current configurations – are raising worries about whether the project will hurt more than it helps.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2015/12/odot_taking_heat_over_impact_o.html

 

 

 

It's still an industrial waterfront in an industrial city.  I think some were expecting this project to change that, but it can't.

It's still an industrial waterfront in an industrial city.  I think some were expecting this project to change that, but it can't.

 

That doesn't mean we need 14 foot lanes on West 25th Street.

It's still an industrial waterfront in an industrial city.  I think some were expecting this project to change that, but it can't.

 

Industrial city? Kindly reset your time machine from 1975 to 2015. When you do, please check the present-day employment data for each sector in Cleveland. Then, revisit your comment. Allow me to suggest a place to find such data:

 

http://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/summary/blssummary_cleveland_oh.pdf (tip: at 11.7% of the total, manufacturing is only the fifth-largest employment sector in Cleveland)

 

FYI: that was a "website address" for amazing informational resource called "The Internet" which is used by people to become informed on current matters as well as historical reference and context between the two. Pretty amazing resource, if I don't mind saying. Happy holidays!

That area is a mess and I don't see any great solution presented.

A sensible truck route through the Flats to I490 would take a lot of pressure of the city streets. 

It's still an industrial waterfront in an industrial city.  I think some were expecting this project to change that, but it can't.

 

Industrial city? Kindly reset your time machine from 1975 to 2015. When you do, please check the present-day employment data for each sector in Cleveland. Then, revisit your comment. Allow me to suggest a place to find such data:

 

http://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/summary/blssummary_cleveland_oh.pdf (tip: at 11.7% of the total, manufacturing is only the fifth-largest employment sector in Cleveland)

 

FYI: that was a "website address" for amazing informational resource called "The Internet" which is used by people to become informed on current matters as well as historical reference and context between the two. Pretty amazing resource, if I don't mind saying. Happy holidays!

 

Industry is still heavily concentrated in the flats and the area north of the shoreway.  That's why truck traffic is still an issue.  Hence this article.

It's still an industrial waterfront in an industrial city.  I think some were expecting this project to change that, but it can't.

 

Industrial city? Kindly reset your time machine from 1975 to 2015. When you do, please check the present-day employment data for each sector in Cleveland. Then, revisit your comment. Allow me to suggest a place to find such data:

 

http://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/summary/blssummary_cleveland_oh.pdf (tip: at 11.7% of the total, manufacturing is only the fifth-largest employment sector in Cleveland)

 

FYI: that was a "website address" for amazing informational resource called "The Internet" which is used by people to become informed on current matters as well as historical reference and context between the two. Pretty amazing resource, if I don't mind saying. Happy holidays!

 

Industry is still heavily concentrated in the flats and the area north of the shoreway.  That's why truck traffic is still an issue.  Hence this article.

 

It's not so much that industry that is located there.  It's the delivery of bulk goods being transferred inland to industry.

I'm not sure bulk transfer represents a meaningful distinction in this context, given that the issue is trucks.

Industry is still heavily concentrated in the flats and the area north of the shoreway.  That's why truck traffic is still an issue.  Hence this article.

 

There's still some industrial leftovers, but as Cleburger notes, there are aggregates and other product unloaded on the lakefront by ship that could be unloaded by ship further upriver where there is a better highway and rail access. And I'll anticipate that you'll question the rail access issue since there are rail lines there.... The problem is those rail lines go east-west. When I did a study of a lakefront rail bypass in 2003, I was trying to get a handle on local shippers on the lakefront tracks. Norfolk Southern said they occasionally get inquiries from inland manufacturers who seek aggregates and other materials delivered by ship in bulk quantities to the lakefront. NS hasn't be able to handle these prospective shipments because they have to go so far out their way east and west and incur so much labor cost from long terminal times. So the trucks get these shipments to deliver them several miles inland.

 

So the question is, do these activities need to be there? Are we making concessions to a shipping activity that, if moved inland and their lakefront replaced by different land uses (housing, office, light assembly etc) might produce a stronger economic return?

 

Chicago doesn't have lake shipping near its downtown. Instead that activity is located well south of downtown, a few miles on either by the Indiana state line. So which stretch of lakefront produces higher real estate values and a more appealing destination for a wider variety of productive economic activities? If the aggregate piles, bulk shipments and trucks are push out of this area around the old river channel and opens this area up to new development, I think Cleveland (the 21st century version) would be better off.

The issue is trucks and the truck traffic coming up/down W. 25th is a real barrier for Ohio City from a pedestrian standpoint.  It's nearly impossible to co-mingle the sidewalk seating and pedestrian cross walks by the Market as well as bike lanes and heavy truck traffic.  Ditto for the Detroit/Superior bridge and Ontario, up past the stadiums.  These trucks FLY up & down these streets. I see them run the red light at Huron/Ontario all the time. 

 

A good route through the flats seems to be the best solution to me.  I thought the new connector at East 9th from Canal might alleviate the truck traffic. 

We can't ignore the fact that there are some facilities along the lakefront that aren't going anywhere.  The Morgan Waterworks Plant alone takes up several blocks along with the Taconite Pellet terminal and Cargill.  As great an asset Esgewater Park is, it's un-developable from a residential or commercial standpoint.

Chicago doesn't have lake shipping near its downtown. Instead that activity is located well south of downtown, a few miles on either by the Indiana state line. So which stretch of lakefront produces higher real estate values and a more appealing destination for a wider variety of productive economic activities? If the aggregate piles, bulk shipments and trucks are push out of this area around the old river channel and opens this area up to new development, I think Cleveland (the 21st century version) would be better off.

 

If it were possible to move all the industry from the Cuyahoga to a different river, I'd be all for that.  Chicago's setup is a lot better than ours.  Even Detroit put its main factory cluster a few miles downriver from the city center.  But that isn't the case here.  Cleveland will always be more fundamentally industrial at its core.  The docks are right downtown because the mills are right upriver.  Whatever plans we develop to make it a better place should probably acknowledge that concept and work within it, at least to an extent.  We can't change the nature of our waterfront by changing the nature of a nearby road.

As great an asset Esgewater Park is, it's un-developable from a residential or commercial standpoint.

 

Ultimately it shouldn't be. But as we've seen from any sizable event the past two years there is still not adequate access in and out of the park.

If it were possible to move all the industry from the Cuyahoga to a different river, I'd be all for that.  Chicago's setup is a lot better than ours.  Even Detroit put its main factory cluster a few miles downriver from the city center.  But that isn't the case here.  Cleveland will always be more fundamentally industrial at its core.  The docks are right downtown because the mills are right upriver.  Whatever plans we develop to make it a better place should probably acknowledge that concept and work within it, at least to an extent.  We can't change the nature of our waterfront by changing the nature of a nearby road.

 

The mills aren't the issue. They get their product delivered by water or rail, not truck (except coke from Mittal in Warren).

 

The most of the rest of what you say is a cop-out. Exceptions are Cargill plus the Westerly and Morgan treatment plants. Those are the only things that cannot easily move. The rest is tradition infringing upon the city being an attractive place to live and work in the present and future.

We can't ignore the fact that there are some facilities along the lakefront that aren't going anywhere.  The Morgan Waterworks Plant alone takes up several blocks along with the Taconite Pellet terminal and Cargill.  As great an asset Esgewater Park is, it's un-developable from a residential or commercial standpoint.

 

While you're correct about the water plant, there is a large amount of terminal services, which could be moved.    As KJP has noted, these facilities could be moved upriver, closer to direct highway and rail access.    This alone would solve the massive truck problem we have in Ohio City and Downtown (while certainly adding cost/time to the shippers, as the Cuyahoga is not exactly an easy maneuver for their boats).  It would also free up a massive amount of land for direct waterfront development.    Like anything else in this city, it would probably take public money to incentivize this move...

 

 

What are we proposing here, that all industry north of 490 needs to move?  Forgive me for believing our resources could be better utilized.  I'm all for applying lessons learned from planning mistakes of the past, e.g. let's not make Euclid Avenue into another industrial zone.  I just don't think we can afford to wipe our waterfront clean and start over.  We are better off moving forward without the two steps back.

What are we proposing here, that all industry north of 490 needs to move?  Forgive me for believing our resources could be better utilized.  I'm all for applying lessons learned from planning mistakes of the past, e.g. let's not make Euclid Avenue into another industrial zone.  I just don't think we can afford to wipe our waterfront clean and start over.  We are better off moving forward without the two steps back.

 

Really? All industry north of 490? Wipe the waterfront clean? You're better served by avoiding the leaps to extreme conclusions. Take care. Putting you back on "ignore."

KJP, you listed two specific exceptions and suggested that only the flimsiest of logic ("tradition") prevented anything else from moving.  I'm trying to figure out what the parameters are for the idea we're talking about.  Most if not all of the gentrification at issue is happening north of 490. 

 

A sensible truck route through the Flats to I490 would take a lot of pressure of the city streets. 

 

This.  There ought to be some workable alternative for trucks so they never use the shoreway near downtown.     

Industry is still heavily concentrated in the flats and the area north of the shoreway.  That's why truck traffic is still an issue.  Hence this article.

 

There's still some industrial leftovers, but as Cleburger notes, there are aggregates and other product unloaded on the lakefront by ship that could be unloaded by ship further upriver where there is a better highway and rail access. And I'll anticipate that you'll question the rail access issue since there are rail lines there.... The problem is those rail lines go east-west. When I did a study of a lakefront rail bypass in 2003, I was trying to get a handle on local shippers on the lakefront tracks. Norfolk Southern said they occasionally get inquiries from inland manufacturers who seek aggregates and other materials delivered by ship in bulk quantities to the lakefront. NS hasn't be able to handle these prospective shipments because they have to go so far out their way east and west and incur so much labor cost from long terminal times. So the trucks get these shipments to deliver them several miles inland.

 

So the question is, do these activities need to be there? Are we making concessions to a shipping activity that, if moved inland and their lakefront replaced by different land uses (housing, office, light assembly etc) might produce a stronger economic return?

 

Chicago doesn't have lake shipping near its downtown. Instead that activity is located well south of downtown, a few miles on either by the Indiana state line. So which stretch of lakefront produces higher real estate values and a more appealing destination for a wider variety of productive economic activities? If the aggregate piles, bulk shipments and trucks are push out of this area around the old river channel and opens this area up to new development, I think Cleveland (the 21st century version) would be better off.

 

The Port is one the things that is truly doing well in this area, are you saying you want to uproot and disrupt it?

So, from the article, we can solve much of the the truck problem and save tens of millions of $ just by keeping the eastbound speed limit at 35 mph over the Main Ave Bridge and retaining the current on-ramp at 28th St? This doesn't seem like a very hard choice, though maybe I'm under-weighing the safely concerns.

 

A sensible truck route through the Flats to I490 would take a lot of pressure of the city streets. 

 

Looks like there's already a good network of out-of-the way truck routes in the Flats upriver from Tower City. Much harder to find a way out for trucks serving the old riverbed area. The only realistic choices are:

 

1. Enter the Shoreway eastbound at 28th St (as they can do today)

2. Take Detroit Ave westbound to get on the Shoreway EB at W 45th St.

3. Take Detroit Ave eastbound into downtown to access the highways there.

4. Take West 25th through the heart of Market Square to get to 490 (or, even worse, through Tremont)

5. Take the Center St. bridge across the Columbus Rd. peninsula to Canal Street and then the new E9th St. extension.

6. A new, extremely expensive route that traces and maybe even displaces the Lake Link Trail along the west bank of the river to West 3rd.

 

#3, 4, and 6 seem like the worst choices. #6 might not even be possible. #2 is also bad, but not as terrible as the others. #5 seems viable, though it would annoy the Stone Bridge owners and residents and might inhibit nascent redevelopment on the Columbus R. peninsula. I can petty easily understand why the CDC supports #1.