^ I only learned about that a couple years ago when looking at a historical map.

Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

 

The GPS on my car still calls it Buckley Blvd....

 

SOunds like you need to update to 2.0 haha

Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

 

That ranks it among the oldest of freeways.  So why malign a WPA project as if it were happening now?  Why malign people who oppose the shoreway conversion as if they were asking the city for money?  They aren't.  They live where they do because it's dense and walkable there, while the inner city pursues a more suburban development pattern.  This isn't a matter of Avon vs Downtown.  There's no benefit in pretending it is.   

I'm one of the suburban people who travels through the Detroit-Shoreway neighborhood more often than I travel to it. And I do so at speeds higher than the posted limit because the design of the road has a greater influence on me than a road-side sign. But I'm also one of the people who recognizes that the livability of Detroit-Shoreway probably goes up greater than the livability of neighborhoods farther west goes down because I would have another a minute or two added to my commute by having two intersections added to the Shoreway. I'm willing to make a tiny sacrifice for the greater good of my metro area.

Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

 

That ranks it among the oldest of freeways.  So why malign a WPA project as if it were happening now?  Why malign people who oppose the shoreway conversion as if they were asking the city for money?  They aren't.  They live where they do because it's dense and walkable there, while the inner city pursues a more suburban development pattern.  This isn't a matter of Avon vs Downtown.  There's no benefit in pretending it is.   

 

I love how you're all "yay urbanism" until it costs you an extra 2 minutes on your auto commute.

To me it has nothing to do with added travel time. It's ridiculous that it's a 35 MPH limited access highway. There are no intersections, no crossings and there are on and off ramps. I would absolutely support it as it was originally talked about being redesigned, but for now, it's just a prettier version of what it already was.

To me it has nothing to do with added travel time. It's ridiculous that it's a 35 MPH limited access highway. There are no intersections, no crossings and there are on and off ramps. I would absolutely support it as it was originally talked about being redesigned, but for now, it's just a prettier version of what it already was.

 

Anyone want to take an educated guess as to how much a full redesign with actual intersections would cost? It would surely open up more room for development.

The original plan was to add intersections at West 45th Street, West 54th/Division Avenue and West 73rd, as well as close the West 28th ramps to/from the east. It was revised to remove the West 73rd intersection in 2011. Here's what that version included:

https://www.dot.state.oh.us/districts/D12/Documents/6.15.11%20Lakefront%20West%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

 

Considering the amount of earthmoving required and temporary roadways provided, I'm going to guess that the West 73rd intersection would cost about $20 million to $30 million.

 

Because the grade differences are minimal and the existing streets come so close to the mainline roadway of the West Shoreway, I'm going to estimate that the West 54th/Division and West 45th intersections could cost about $5 million each. I would also add Cleveland State Line station stops at each new intersection provided. If the West 73rd intersection is deemed too costly, then I would instead add a bus station stop at the West 76th pedestrian underpass. Total cost of this could be in the $15 million range.

 

As for West 28th, I'm not sure what can be done about this except perhaps to have the eastbound exit ramp to West 25th take away the high-speed lane until the West 28th eastbound entrance ramp restores the third lane. Westbound, I would install a traffic signal at the bottom of the West 28th ramp that would always be green for traffic exiting the Shoreway except when a pedestrian or car on West 28th actuates the signal for West 28th.

I wonder how much the cost was to reconstruct the Edgewater Drive underpass for the on-ramp as well as a rebuild of the Edgewater off-ramp.

Nope. It was built as a boulevard 100+ years ago, originally called Bulkley Boulevard then upgraded to a freeway with WPA funds during the Depression.

 

That ranks it among the oldest of freeways.  So why malign a WPA project as if it were happening now?  Why malign people who oppose the shoreway conversion as if they were asking the city for money?  They aren't.  They live where they do because it's dense and walkable there, while the inner city pursues a more suburban development pattern.  This isn't a matter of Avon vs Downtown.  There's no benefit in pretending it is.   

 

I love how you're all "yay urbanism" until it costs you an extra 2 minutes on your auto commute.

 

We may not entirely agree on what urbanism means.  And I work in Parma, so we aren't discussing "[my] auto commute."  Please stop making things personal. 

W54 really should be a pedestrian-friendly intersection.

 

Here's the issue I see with the current setup: the new trail runs right along the northern side of the road (https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4884662,-81.717388,3a,90y,256.01h,64.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGmAq36gHIxA_hkM5-iZg9Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) and there are no barriers. The median is now grass. The southern side is also far less imposing looking since it was rebuilt. It really doesn't look like it would be that hard to jaywalk.

 

If someone is walking along the trail and wants to quickly get to Detroit, I see no reason they aren't just going to dart across the Shoreway to W54 since it is so.damn.easy to do.

As for West 28th, I'm not sure what can be done about this except perhaps to have the eastbound exit ramp to West 25th take away the high-speed lane until the West 28th eastbound entrance ramp restores the third lane. Westbound, I would install a traffic signal at the bottom of the West 28th ramp that would always be green for traffic exiting the Shoreway except when a pedestrian or car on West 28th actuates the signal for West 28th.

 

I use these ramps just about every day and came to the same conclusion for the entrance ramp. It seemed to work just fine as that set up when the lane was closed during construction. During the construction especially, but even on a normal day the rush hour traffic getting off at W28th backs up quite a bit onto the bridge, causing the shoreway to back up since one lane is being stopped. Most of that comes from W28th being completely backed up from the light on Detroit though, especially when someone is waiting to turn left. A left turn lane at Detroit would solve alot of those problems though, and probably eliminate the need for a light at the exit. Does anyone know if that's in the plan once they redo that street? Quite a bit of it is blocked off right now for construction at Quarter too, so the space will be there.

To me it has nothing to do with added travel time. It's ridiculous that it's a 35 MPH limited access highway. There are no intersections, no crossings and there are on and off ramps. I would absolutely support it as it was originally talked about being redesigned, but for now, it's just a prettier version of what it already was.

 

Not 100% true.  From a design standpoint there is also a missing center median wall as well as multi-purpose trails right next to the roadway in a couple spots.  So the lower speed limit is definitely needed--even if it doesn't feel right. 

 

IMO they should extend the rush-hour bus/bike lane from Lake Rd to W 28th to help calm things just a bit.

 

 

Posted some historic photos and maps of the old Bulkley Boulevard as well as a couple of present-day comparison views at:

 

https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,766.msg885939.html#msg885939

 

A sample.....

 

BulkleyBlvd-RRbridge-westward-1938s by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

Edgewater live returns just in time for a single-lane West Shoreway

 

 

Construction on the Shoreway is scheduled for the entire summer, starting with the righthand lane on the Main Avenue Bridge closing in each direction until the end of May. Shortly following, construction will shift to the middle lane until early July, and then the left lane will close in July until the end of August.

 

Anyone who has driven on the Shoreway during Edgewater LIVE can attest to the gridlock that occurs during rush hour when all of the lanes are open. Shrinking the Shoreway down to one lane throughout all of this sounds like a recipe for disaster. Maybe bike over, use public transit, or ditch the car in Detroit-Shoreway and use one of the pedestrian tunnels instead.

 

On the bright side, driving in bumper to bumper traffic will finally appease the wishes of the 35 mph posted speed limit.

Edgewater live returns just in time for a single-lane West Shoreway

 

 

Construction on the Shoreway is scheduled for the entire summer, starting with the righthand lane on the Main Avenue Bridge closing in each direction until the end of May. Shortly following, construction will shift to the middle lane until early July, and then the left lane will close in July until the end of August.

 

Anyone who has driven on the Shoreway during Edgewater LIVE can attest to the gridlock that occurs during rush hour when all of the lanes are open. Shrinking the Shoreway down to one lane throughout all of this sounds like a recipe for disaster. Maybe bike over, use public transit, or ditch the car in Detroit-Shoreway and use one of the pedestrian tunnels instead.

 

On the bright side, driving in bumper to bumper traffic will finally appease the wishes of the 35 mph posted speed limit.

 

More access issues. It sure can be hard to enjoy the waterfront in this city lol. I don't see this changing anytime soon - at least not for events - until there's more north-south points of access, more on-street parking and of course better transit.

Edgewater live returns just in time for a single-lane West Shoreway

 

 

Construction on the Shoreway is scheduled for the entire summer, starting with the righthand lane on the Main Avenue Bridge closing in each direction until the end of May. Shortly following, construction will shift to the middle lane until early July, and then the left lane will close in July until the end of August.

 

Anyone who has driven on the Shoreway during Edgewater LIVE can attest to the gridlock that occurs during rush hour when all of the lanes are open. Shrinking the Shoreway down to one lane throughout all of this sounds like a recipe for disaster. Maybe bike over, use public transit, or ditch the car in Detroit-Shoreway and use one of the pedestrian tunnels instead.

 

On the bright side, driving in bumper to bumper traffic will finally appease the wishes of the 35 mph posted speed limit.

 

More access issues. It sure can be hard to enjoy the waterfront in this city lol. I don't see this changing anytime soon - at least not for events - until there's more north-south points of access, more on-street parking and of course better transit.

 

 

Not for at least another generation.  We had our chance with the full vision of the Shoreway Blvd. project ... what we got instead was a half-measure that doesn't do much at all for the issues you cite.  :(

It's not that damn hard to get into Edgewater.  In a distance of 1 mile, from W. 65th to West Blvd, you can walk in to the park at 4 different locations.

It's not that damn hard to get into Edgewater.  In a distance of 1 mile, from W. 65th to West Blvd, you can walk in to the park at 4 different locations.

 

It's really not. You can park on 59th-63rd in between herman and detroit and walk. its 10 mins

It's not that damn hard to get into Edgewater.  In a distance of 1 mile, from W. 65th to West Blvd, you can walk in to the park at 4 different locations.

 

It's really not. You can park on 59th-63rd in between herman and detroit and walk. its 10 mins

 

Whiskey Island on the other hand...

 

 

It's not that damn hard to get into Edgewater.  In a distance of 1 mile, from W. 65th to West Blvd, you can walk in to the park at 4 different locations.

 

The fact that you or I can get there doesn't mean it's easy for others.

 

 

 

^Nothing easy is worth doing, amiright

^Nothing easy is worth doing, amiright

 

When you have kids you'll appreciate when things around you are a little bit easier.

 

 

^Nothing easy is worth doing, amiright

 

When you have kids you'll appreciate when things around you are a little bit easier.

 

Eh, I think people are just lazy.  We have a 1, 3, and 5 year old and have taken all 3 of them on trips to a couple big cities, walked all over and even taken the subways with the stoller.  Sure, it's tougher than it was 6 years ago, but it's still manageable and fun.

 

Not to mention we go downtown as a family on the rapid sometimes to hang out at public square, walk around, and eat lunch somewhere on a weekend.

Not to mention we go downtown as a family on the rapid sometimes to hang out at public square, walk around, and eat lunch somewhere on a weekend.

 

No doubt. But one of the major problems for Edgewater is the lack of public transit.

 

When is the BRT going to stop there and help alleviate the traffic issues?

Not to mention we go downtown as a family on the rapid sometimes to hang out at public square, walk around, and eat lunch somewhere on a weekend.

 

No doubt. But one of the major problems for Edgewater is the lack of public transit.

 

When is the BRT going to stop there and help alleviate the traffic issues?

 

It stops there but only on Saturdays. Pretty useless.

Not to mention we go downtown as a family on the rapid sometimes to hang out at public square, walk around, and eat lunch somewhere on a weekend.

 

No doubt. But one of the major problems for Edgewater is the lack of public transit.

 

When is the BRT going to stop there and help alleviate the traffic issues?

 

It stops there but only on Saturdays. Pretty useless.

 

The CSU Line already runs on Thursday evenings--with good frequency.  What would it take RTA to add a stop for these events?

I'm sorry, but if I'm commuting back to Bay Village or Lakewood or Rocky River from Downtown after work on Thursday, there is no way I want to sit in line to enter Edgewater Park on my way home.

The bus could take a quick run through Battery Park or something so people could walk through one of the tunnels.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, I was talking about the 22, not the BRT.

I'm sorry, but if I'm commuting back to Bay Village or Lakewood or Rocky River from Downtown after work on Thursday, there is no way I want to sit in line to enter Edgewater Park on my way home.

 

It wouldn't have to if the road had been reworked with at grade intersections.  Or for a much simpler solution, reduce the Shoreway to 2 lanes each direction, with a breakdown/bus lane.  The bus could just pull over in that lane and drop off pax at the stop right above the Edgewater Beachhouse without even having to exit.   

 

The CSU Line already runs on Thursday evenings--with good frequency.  What would it take RTA to add a stop for these events?

 

RTA Deputy General Manager, Engineering & Project Management, Mike Schipper, lives in Lakewood and saw the traffic backups at Edgewater and became the instigator of having the buses exit the Shoreway to stop at Edgewater on Saturdays only. Not sure why he didn't add Thursday evenings, or perhaps all weekday evenings, to include the Edgewater stop. Perhaps it was because he didn't want the buses to get stuck in that traffic too. I told him I had a way around that, and shared these images with him. That was a year ago. I realize things move slowly sometimes.....

 

BTW, I would do the station stop at West 76th but I change the other stops by creating intersections with Cass/W56th and W45th....

 

csu-brt-batterypk-ohiocitys by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

The number of dead trees in this median is staggering.  Also, entirely predictable.  Good news is they don't stifle the lake and skyline views quite as badly as I thought they would... but that's because they're dead.

The number of dead trees in this median is staggering.  Also, entirely predictable.  Good news is they don't stifle the lake and skyline views quite as badly as I thought they would... but that's because they're dead.

 

The cost for those trees is like a recruitment tool for the tea party.

Usually they get a re-planting policy on a tree if it dies within the first year.

Usually they get a re-planting policy on a tree if it dies within the first year.

 

And there's probably an out clause if the city doesn't water them.  Which plays into surfohio's point, because the long term maintenance gets pricey.  You don't just install this type of landscaping, you have to keep installing it forever.  And you can't just bring in regular landscapers for that, due to it being in the middle of a road, and you pretty much eliminated the road's shoulders to make room for it, so a truckload of orange barrels is needed for the slightest task.  Even if we get 100 new trees for free, we're still 1000 man-hours away from achieving vibrancy.

 

Here's an idea-- let's buy 100 trees and instead of blowing millions to install them in a road, let's just plant them in a vacant lot.  I call it "forest."

The number of dead trees in this median is staggering.  Also, entirely predictable.  Good news is they don't stifle the lake and skyline views quite as badly as I thought they would... but that's because they're dead.

 

The cost for those trees is like a recruitment tool for the tea party.

The number of dead trees in this median is staggering.  Also, entirely predictable.  Good news is they don't stifle the lake and skyline views quite as badly as I thought they would... but that's because they're dead.

 

EDG knew that those trees would die. But ODOT insisted on them. Looks like EDG was correct.

Interesting.  I had thought the landscaped median, trees and all, was crucial to the boulevard concept.  And I had thought ODOT was opposed to the entire project.  What did EDG propose?  And who is EDG?

Have you guys noticed the new signs on the Shoreway that say 'Edgewater Parkway?' They've been up for a while. It doesn't look like anybody actually changed the name of the road, just threw up some signs.

31 minutes ago, mu2010 said:

Have you guys noticed the new signs on the Shoreway that say 'Edgewater Parkway?' They've been up for a while. It doesn't look like anybody actually changed the name of the road, just threw up some signs.

 

Where are they located?   I'll take a look next trip through there...

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

 

Where are they located?   I'll take a look next trip through there...

They are banner type signs along the light posts all the way along the road. Then it says "Ohio City," "Gordon Square," or "Edgewater" depending on where you're at

5 hours ago, mu2010 said:

They are banner type signs along the light posts all the way along the road. Then it says "Ohio City," "Gordon Square," or "Edgewater" depending on where you're at

 

Ah ok--I thought you meant actual street signs, in City of Cleveland blue!  

Nope... I just thought it was interesting that somebody just decided to throw up some banners with a new name for the road and wondering if anyone had the story.

1 hour ago, mu2010 said:

Nope... I just thought it was interesting that somebody just decided to throw up some banners with a new name for the road and wondering if anyone had the story.

 

I can double check but I believe it was a part of the project all along.

I like the name, just curious about the story behind it and if I may say, a little skeptical that it will catch on.

This might be some of the history to it.

Edgewater Parkway

https://cplorg.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p4014coll24/id/1787

Wasn’t sure where exactly to throw this but wanted to share - took my first ride along the Lakefront Bikeway today from Edgewater to Downtown, and what an amazing experience I had.

 

The trail is not only beautiful, but is such an incredible asset linking the west side neighborhoods together. Plus the new wayfinding is perfect!! Let’s hope this momentum keeps going toward providing quality bike infrastructure and neighborhood connections throughout the city.

1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I'm definitely a proponent.  I used to live in Lakewood and commuted to CCF. How's the West Shoreway conversion project going? Is it achieving its objectives? Has it opened up the lakefront?

 

Yes, it is completed. And the project has opened up the lakefront with the construction of the West 73rd underpass below the busy lakefront railroad tracks, the renovation of the West 76th underpass and the construction of the Lakefront Bikeway. It is also much more visually attractive (especially when the city cuts the grass).

 

But it could have done more, and hopefully someday it will by replacing the interchange at Edgewater Park with an intersection, adding intersections at West 45th and West 54th streets, adding bus stops on the #55/Cleveland State Line at each of the new intersections, and raising the speed limit to 40 or even 45 mph. At least that's my personal preference. ?

25 minutes ago, KJP said:

But it could have done more, and hopefully someday it will by replacing the interchange at Edgewater Park with an intersection, adding intersections at West 45th and West 54th streets, adding bus stops on the #55/Cleveland State Line at each of the new intersections, and raising the speed limit to 40 or even 45 mph. At least that's my personal preference. ?

 

I love ya, KJP, but I don't think you can have it both ways -- higher speeds and more intersections.  In its previous incarnation, the Shoreway was like a highway designed to get people (cars) as quickly as possible from Lakewood to downtown or further east (and in reverse), and in that configuration rightly had few intersections or exits and higher speeds.  It still acts like a highway coming east into downtown.

 

The current transition moves it closer to a city street with cross connections to the lake being a particularly welcome improvement.  Further improvements to convert the highway to a city street would have similar positive effects through downtown, and I think you've even proposed such a scenario.  In that situation, with intersections and more bus stops, a 35mph speed limit would seem to be more appropriate.

 

As is appropriate WITHIN a city, the land next to a city street can be developed with buildings fronting the street, whereas in a highway configuration the land immediately adjacent the roadway is not accessible from the roadway and must have a connection to another street, making it more difficult to develop the land immediately adjacent the road in some places.  (And making "park" space next to a highway is not very pleasant.)

Can't find the link but Steve Litt had an article not long ago that was critical of the Shoreway project.  Maybe it was linked further back in here...

30 minutes ago, Foraker said:

 

I love ya, KJP, but I don't think you can have it both ways -- higher speeds and more intersections.  In its previous incarnation, the Shoreway was like a highway designed to get people (cars) as quickly as possible from Lakewood to downtown or further east (and in reverse), and in that configuration rightly had few intersections or exits and higher speeds.  It still acts like a highway coming east into downtown.

 

The current transition moves it closer to a city street with cross connections to the lake being a particularly welcome improvement.  Further improvements to convert the highway to a city street would have similar positive effects through downtown, and I think you've even proposed such a scenario.  In that situation, with intersections and more bus stops, a 35mph speed limit would seem to be more appropriate.

 

As is appropriate WITHIN a city, the land next to a city street can be developed with buildings fronting the street, whereas in a highway configuration the land immediately adjacent the roadway is not accessible from the roadway and must have a connection to another street, making it more difficult to develop the land immediately adjacent the road in some places.  (And making "park" space next to a highway is not very pleasant.)

 

Why not? Brookpark Road is 40-50 mph with intersections in Fairview Park and North Olmsted, with several multi-family condo and apartment buildings adjacent plus a 16-story high-rise apartment building adjacent. 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

Why not? Brookpark Road is 40-50 mph with intersections in Fairview Park and North Olmsted, with several multi-family condo and apartment buildings adjacent plus a 16-story high-rise apartment building adjacent. 

 

Lots of reasons.  But let's start with if you want pedestrian activity, slower speeds are safer and make for a more pleasant pedestrian experience.  I would think that we want pedestrians walking to the lake.  If you want a neighborhood along the Shoreway, you want people to want to be outside, engaged in their community not sheltering from the noise of a highway. 

 

And really, if there are more intersections, you'll have to stop more often.  Does changing the speed limit between stop lights from 35 to 45mph really save that much time?  I would say that a 35mph speed limit with stop lights timed to minimize stops for traffic at that speed would not be a significant impediment to a commute into downtown.  But a 45mph speed limit means cars traveling at 50-55mph -- that's a highway.  I can't imagine that standing beside a roadway with cars traveling at that speed while I wait to cross, or hanging out in my front yard with cars traveling at that speed is in any way a pleasant experience. 

https://www.cameatechnology.com/articles/noisy-speeding-impact-vehicle-speed-noise-level/

 

Also -- "Brookpark Road has a Walk Score of 25 out of 100. This location is a Car-Dependent neighborhood so most errands require a car." -- although I do understand that that is what some people want, that seems like a suburban rather than an urban model.