50 MPH = good? Then let's test that out by changing the speed limit on Clifton and Lake to 50 MPH instead of what it is now.

 

Here here--and while we're at it I think 50 mph would be reasonable on Chester, Carneigie, Shaker and Fairmount. Who needs an Opportunity Cooridor when you can BLAST through the Heights at 50 MPH.

 

Game on! ;)

Where on Shaker or Fairmount can you drive at 50 MPH or is that sarcasm?

 

Maybe just a tinge of sarcasm.  ;)

 

But don't you think 50 MPH on Shaker makes sense?  We could put underpasses on the square with ramps to the outer roads.  Let's not let a few extra minutes of commute time stand in the way of suburban progress....

 

My point is the 50 MPH argument on the 3 mile stretch of West Shoreway is ridiculous when compared to the bigger picture and what that stretch of road can mean to the near west side, Lakewood and the next 100 years of Cleveland's lakefront development.

I thought we were moving on... I'd really like to discuss proceeding with the project sans speed reduction...

 

That 3 mile stretch is a bottleneck leading into downtown for morning rush.  Each mile, more traffic is added.  Slowing traffic down won't do anything for lakefront development.  Every identifiable goal of this project, other than slowing traffic down, is attainable regardless of speed limit.  This bigger picture also supports the result of the legislative vote.

 

And yes, Chester should be 50.  In many cities it would be.  Urban artieries are often 50 without any form of controlled access.  An argument could be made for Clifton too, though not Lake.  Those aforementioned roads in the Heights are not at all analogous to the West Shoreway, although a lot of roads further east that are 25-35 would be 50 in many cities.  Here, they're speed traps. 

Slowing traffic down won't do anything for lakefront development. 

 

your opinion, not fact.

Slowing traffic down won't do anything for lakefront development. 

 

your opinion, not fact.

 

Likewise. 

 

People don't always agree, and we really have covered all this before.  There's not much to be said on the matter that wouldn't be redundant.  That's why I'd like to focus on moving forward with the ramps and tunnels and stuff. 

Annnnnd done.

OK, no more controversy, I promise.

 

Work should start on renovating the tunnels at both 76th & Lake within the month.  Good amount of tree clearing to be done at the 76th tunnel between the tracks & Shoreway to open up the slope for the sweeping grade change switchback that will go about 200' east, then come back west.  Likely have a lane closure on that side of the Shoreway while the work is done to allow the trucks to get on & off the highway.

Great news!

 

 

I 'll try to walk down and take some pics for regular updating in the future.

This week they are redoing all 4 corner sidewalk interchanges at the corner of Lake and Clifton.

 

 

The corner sidewalk work stretches quite a way west on the Cleveland portion of Clifton Blvd. I'd guess I saw at least six different intersections waiting for the concrete trucks or being worked on this morning.

The corner sidewalk work stretches quite a way west on the Cleveland portion of Clifton Blvd. I'd guess I saw at least six different intersections waiting for the concrete trucks or being worked on this morning.

 

Yes must be for solely ADA reasons.  In typical Bureaucrat fashion they will redo these, just to have them torn up again next year (hopefully) as a part of the "Enhance Clifton" streetscape project.  But progress is progress, right? 

 

Now if they could just bump up the timeframe on the rest of the project to take care of the crumbling sidewalks and rutted boulevard!

 

 

 

Now if they could just bump up the timeframe on the rest of the project to take care of the crumbling sidewalks and rutted boulevard!

 

I can't wait for Fr. Caruso to be cut off E/W  with the 73rd tunnel so people stop drag-racing down it.  Give me my nice little pseudo-cul-de-sac ASAP!

 

((i've personally witnessed 3 near accidents at 69th there with kids on bikes/chasing balls and cars doing prolly 60-ish MPH))

 

 

 

Now if they could just bump up the timeframe on the rest of the project to take care of the crumbling sidewalks and rutted boulevard!

 

I can't wait for Fr. Caruso to be cut off E/W with the 73rd tunnel so people stop drag-racing down it. Give me my nice little pseudo-cul-de-sac ASAP!

 

((i've personally witnessed 3 near accidents at 69th there with kids on bikes/chasing balls and cars doing prolly 60-ish MPH))

 

Regardless of when that happens, how would you or the residents back in that cul de sac get out to go over to 73rd & get on the Shoreway?  There would have to be some East/West cut over to it and right now there really isn't.  Herman doesn't go all the way over to 73rd from the East?

Not sure how I missed this, but it's an official update on the project from ODOT describing budgets & timelines dated June 17th 2010:

 

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/ClevelandUrbanCoreProjects/LakefrontWest/Documents/6.17.10%20Lakefront%20West%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

 

 

 

 

Now if they could just bump up the timeframe on the rest of the project to take care of the crumbling sidewalks and rutted boulevard!

 

I can't wait for Fr. Caruso to be cut off E/W with the 73rd tunnel so people stop drag-racing down it. Give me my nice little pseudo-cul-de-sac ASAP!

 

((i've personally witnessed 3 near accidents at 69th there with kids on bikes/chasing balls and cars doing prolly 60-ish MPH))

 

Regardless of when that happens, how would you or the residents back in that cul de sac get out to go over to 73rd & get on the Shoreway? There would have to be some East/West cut over to it and right now there really isn't. Herman doesn't go all the way over to 73rd from the East?

 

I figure it's up to Detroit and back down. Fine with me.

Looks like the tunnel reconstruction projects at 76th & Lake Ave will start after Labor Day weekend.  Pedestrian traffic needs to be maintained until then. 

Is there an update posted on the city web site or something? 

Work has officially begun on these two tunnels.  Tree clearing equipment is working today at the hillside of 76th between the Shoreway & the RR tracks.  They'll work on the slope till Labor Day weekend, then tunnel will be closed off and major repairs can begin.  Majority of work will be finished this year with landscaping and some finish work done next spring. 

 

10,000 cy of excavation at the 76th tunnel to cut in the new ramp, while about 3,000 cy of fill at the Lake Ave tunnel to bring that up to grade for that new ramp. 

Regarding said tunnels:

 

Pedestrian tunnels leading to Cleveland's Edgewater Park to close for repairs

Published: Wednesday, August 04, 2010, 11:00 AM

Cliff Pinckard

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The long-awaited project to improve pedestrian tunnels to Edgewater Park is scheduled to begin Friday, when the passageway under the West Shoreway at Lake Avenue is closed until the end of the year.

 

The West 76th Street pedestrian tunnels under railroad tracks and the West Shoreway will close after Labor Day...

 

For more: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/08/pedestrian_tunnels_leading_to.html

Tree clearing at 76th tunnel is pretty much done already.  View from up top in Battery Park and down below along the Shoreway or park area is totally different.  Complete unobstructed views of the lake. 

 

I printed off plans from the ODOT website for the project and this new access ramp is going to be really really nice when complete.

There will be a better article about this in tomorrow's Sun Newspapers. :)

Tunnel renovations are really moving along.  Demolition is well underway as is the excavation for the new grade at 76th.  Also digging for the retention pond down at Edgewater below.  Retaining walls should start soon.  I have plenty of pictures if anyone is interested.  Also attached are a few basic overview plans from the ODOT prints.

Tunnel renovations are really moving along. Demolition is well underway as is the excavation for the new grade at 76th. Also digging for the retention pond down at Edgewater below. Retaining walls should start soon. I have plenty of pictures if anyone is interested. Also attached are a few basic overview plans from the ODOT prints.

 

can you post a couple of the pics?

Shows the cut for the sloping walkway

 

Shows the new retention basin down on the beach side

 

 

Existing tunnel up top on the street level getting demo'd

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Yay! Pics! I'm very excited about this project

The tunnel will remain open yet this week for pedestrian access to the beach, then next Tuesday it closes down completely and the serious demo will occur and I assume the existing steps will be taken out.  That's going to be a big change.

 

I need to get down to the other tunnel that's part of this project, in front of Don's Lighthouse and take some pictures of the progress over there.

Great to see this moving forward! 

 

Not sure if everyone will agree, but I have always felt that if Detroit Shoreway is key to the near West Side.  If it can get going, it will connect Ohio City to the already viable (though slipping) Clifton/Edgewater area and keep things moving forward. 

Demolition work continues on this project.  I'll have to get some more pictures but the the tunnel is now completely closed to pedestrian access for the rest of the duration and demo has really stepped up.  Forming for new walls should start next week.

 

At a meeting last week & Councilman Matt Zone said the interchange at W. 73rd under the railroad tracks was a definite go for 2013.  Seems like a long time away but it really isn't.

Major progress on the project today, I need to get some updated pictures, but the upper portion of 76th are really coming together, alot of the new wall portions are formed & poured.  Big pour down at the Lake Ave tunnel today as well.  Most notably though, the old center stair section between the tracks and the Shoreway was demo'd out today.  I came by in the morning and they were working on it.  By the afternoon it was rubble.  By next week they should be forming the retaining walls along the sloping grade to 76th...

Project resumed activity last week.  Crews are busy finishing up the street level of 76th, pouring back interior walls of the upper portion of the tunnel.  Sheet piling delivered along Rt 2 to start driving piles along the railroad tracks for retaining walls.  Still alot of work to do pouring back the section of stairs between the RR tracks and the Shoreway, plus pouring the pavement connector to the multi-use trail in Edgewater from the tunnel below.

 

Tunnel down by Don's lighthouse is nearly complete except for regrading, landscaping & lighting.

Thanks for the update!

Will love to see this project take shape!  With a redone Clifton looming it will really polish up the near west side and help to connect Detroit Shoreway with Edgewater-Clifton.

I expect to see a solid increase in the number of bicyclists using these tunnels.  In order to bike in Edgewater Park before, you had to enter through 65th tunnel, or West Blvd, or carry your bike up/down the steps of these existing tunnels...

NEORSD is out this morning staking the sewer line along the RR tracks from W70th to just past 73rd. Hope its the first step in the process of "move the sewer - dig the tunnel- run W73rd to the Shoreway"  :)

 

Is Father Caruso Drive being cut off at W. 70th St.?  It seems this will isolate the Italian neighborhood and townhomes on Father Caruso Drive from Battery Park (and the corresponding Edgewater Park/Shoreway car access).  I can't imagine residents of these streets between W. 65th and W. 70th would be too happy about this.

Yes. Father Caruso will end at 70th. My understanding is that you will be able to walk over on a walkway South of the RR tracks, but no vehicles.

 

As a residentat 69th and Fr. Caruso I say "bring it on".  Currently people drive very fast to/from BP area using the long strech of Fr Caruso to haul a**.  I am more than happy to see traffic cut down.  When I do go to Battery Park it is on foot anyway.    And if I *were* to drive, then going up to Detroit and over wouldn't be too onerous.  Yes, it will be a little PITA getting on/off Shoreway, but I find that acceptable.

 

It's like getting a little cul-de-sac.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense.  I suppose the Shoreway access via Herman and/or the new W. 54th St. ramps will be nearly as convenient anyway.

 

That's good they'll have a way to walk over to Batter Park from there though.

dergon - I'm glad to hear your position on the 73rd interchange and it effectively making your area a cul-de-sac.  I've heard alot of grumblings from others about how they'll be isolated.  I think it's really best of both worlds though. 

 

One other idea that is being kicked around for the Shoreway development is adding parallel parking along it where it lines Edgewater Park...  logic is that it will give people direct access to the park without having to pull in and drive around to find a space.  And it would slow down traffic.  Theoretically it will give alot more access to the park for big events like July 4th and make it easier to get in/out.  People could park facing westward on the north side and walk into Edgewater or park eastward on the south side then walk to the nearest tunnel...  something to consider

Parallel parking on the shoreway?

Parallel parking on the shoreway?

 

The parallel parking is a good idea. It could work, as long as the shoulder is wide enough.

 

I just spent the last week in San Diego. Much of their beach parking is along 50 mph roads that are a heck of a lot more crowded than the shoreway.

It would be a better idea if it came with a 35 mph speed limit, at grade intersections, sidewalks and some development along the south side of the street.  But at least there's a tunnel you can use to cross under the "boulevard".

from everything I know, 35mph is still the plan.

It would be a better idea if it came with a 35 mph speed limit, at grade intersections, sidewalks and some development along the south side of the street.  But at least there's a tunnel you can use to cross under the "boulevard".

 

Agree wholeheartedly!

 

from everything I know, 35mph is still the plan.

 

Now I'm getting into fuzzy memory zone, so don't quote me ..... but I think that I recall from one of the public forums (summer/fall 2010) a DOT official that the speed limit would stay at 50mph with the new on-ram/off-ramp design. That they hoped sometime in the future, finances dependent, to make the boulevard project full, but that wasn't yet funded so that for the time being people could work under the assumption that ramps at 50mph was as far as it was going to go for now.

the whacky ramps will still be there, but as far as I know (as of around april) still planning on 35mph.

35 mph change has not been approved.  I talked to State Sen Tom Patton personally at length about this.  It's going to require an act of congress, literally, to change this because state law doesn't currently allow it.  He is personally not in favor of the change and is not going to support it unless he gets letters of support from the mayors of his constituent cities which will be affected (Lakewood, Rocky River) not likely. 

 

- The state has money allocated for maybe half this project (based on 2010 dollar value, not 2015 when it's more likely).  Looking at the timeline for the upgrades on the ODOT website, items are already falling off the schedule (http://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/ClevelandUrbanCoreProjects/LakefrontWest/Documents/Projectupdate_022310_FINAL.pdf), the only thing which is on schedule is the 73rd interchange. 

 

- Finally, nothing is going to happen to the main roadbed of the Shoreway until the work on the Innerbelt bridge is complete.  When traffic starts getting impacted from that project, it will be redirected (intentionally or unintentionally) to the Shoreway and ODOT is not going to have the two main arteries into the city from the west side under construction simultaneously, whether the funds are there or not.

yes, but now due to a technicality, it appears the speed limit can be changed without a legislative act. That was the last I heard, and that was in april.

I'd be interested to know what that technicality is.  The speed limit change is somewhat controversial.

The real question will be how will they enforce the speed limit?

 

I am willing to bet 90% of the traffic will still be going 50-60 mph, regardless of the posted limit.  And tickets for any speed under 55 mph are easy to fight if you're within the 85th percentile speed.  The police officer has to be able to "prove" your speed was unsafe for the conditions (exceeding posted limits under 55 mph are just prima facie evidence that you were driving unsafely in Ohio), which is easy to do on a regular city street.  However, on a limited access highway with 3 lanes in each direction, a wall separating both sides, and no sidewalks, it will be considerably easier to tell a judge that 50 mph was perfectly safe for the conditions.

 

The real problem is that they need to design the road in such a way that it encourages and/or requires slower travel (narrower, sidewalks, intersections, traffic lights, development along the road, etc.).  Until then, I don't see how they will be able to effectively lower the speed limit that much.  If anything, a 35 mph speed limit would make the road more dangerous.  Studies have shown that a posted speed limit which does not fall in line with the speed a road was designed for causes large variations in the speed of traffic on the road, which is a huge contributor to accidents.  Some people will obey the new speed limit, but many people will still drive 55 mph or more, as they always have, because the road design still permits it.  This would create a bad situation.

High design speed limit+Low actual speed limit+Traffic cameras=gold mine for the City.

Or lawsuits galore.