So am I to understand that some ramps will now not be built?  Which ramps would those be?  Which streets?

 

 

So am I to understand that some ramps will now not be built?  Which ramps would those be?  Which streets?

 

I think that City Council makes the ultimate call. I'll bet that they will ignore the planning commission on this one (unfortunately). City Council tends to respect the decision of the individual councilperson. Given that JC, Zone and Westbrook are all for the ramp option, I don't see council going against them.

 

 

I'm disappointed with Joe Cimperman on this one. He knows that this isn't the best alternative, he's just going with it so that the other councilmen will help him out with something later on.

i had sent an email to governor strickland's office, who replied and promised to forward my email along. well they did and i got a reply in the mail while i was off in london -- so here it is:

 

 

3/21/07

 

thank you for your recent email to governor stickland expressing your support for the cuyahoga u.s route 6/west shoreway project. your letter has been referred to this office for reply.

 

the trac will make a final decisin on the 2008-2013 major new program in may 2007. your comments are important and will be shared with the trac.

 

respectfully,

james g. beasley, director

 

trac (aka transportation review advisory council)

1980 w. broad st

columbus, ohio 43223

614-466-8963

614-887-4023 (fax)

 

no email? fax??? still, at least i got heard.

 

^Got the exact letter in the mail this past week.

Fortunately, they posted the full article at Cleveland.com, not the shortened version that appeared in the West Side Sun!

_______________

 

http://www.cleveland.com/sun/westsidesunnews/index.ssf?/base/news-0/117639694658340.xml&coll=3

 

Shoreway standoff Residents disagree with city plans to remove ramps

Thursday, April 12, 2007

By Ken Prendergast

West Side Sun News

 

Two sides are at an impasse at the intersection of Clifton Boulevard, Lake Avenue and the West Shoreway.

 

On one side is Ward 18 Councilman Jay Westbrook and a number of residents in the affected area who want to keep highway ramps intact, linking Lake and the Shoreway. On the other side is the Cleveland Planning Commission, which wants them removed to open up more land for Edgewater Park and development.

All signs on the Shoreway displaying exits for Edgewater Park have been replaced by new ones that also display an exit for Whiskey Island. Awesome indeed! But why, when the Shoreway is about to become a boulevard? Any input anyone?

  I think it will be quite sometime before a Blvd will be in place...IMO....maybe this is the indication from ODOT as well

I hope it's a while, A LONG WHILE! :D

I hope it's a while, A LONG WHILE! :D

 

So you prefer the Shoreway remaining yet another in the multitude of faceless, nabe-splitting Cleveland freeways, esp when high density residential development would most likely spin off the shore boulevard?  Why?

I don't oppose an awesome new boulevard that will change the Detroit Shoreway forever. What I do oppose is a project that its end result is still unknown. There is no guarantee that high density residential will come into play. I'd rather see developers expressing interest in this area instead of hearing about ODOT and their ideas. What if we get a new boulevard lined with grass patches or large industrial facilities that take up acres upon acres? Is that possible? Yes. Is that what you want? No, I doubt it. So until we have a plan in place, I don't want to take away what we already have.

There has to be room for development before you can have developers coming in.  The boulevard is a step in getting that accomplished.  Of course there is no guarantee for something that is almost 10 years away, so why do you expect that?

SATURDAY IS RIVER DAY! 

 

WHISKEY ISLAND - CELEBRATE CLEVELAND'S WATERFRONT RENAISSANCE

 

2:00 - 4:00 PM: Come and celebrate the beginning of Cleveland's waterfront renaissance! This year the county commissioners and the mayor confirmed that Whiskey Island will remain open to the public for recreational purposes. There is no longer a threat of port authority development on the county's public property. Explore and experience where our American Heritage River greets our Great Lake.

 

3:00 pm: Gather at the River Boardwalk to hear speakers discuss the restoration of the parkland and beach, the future of the historic Coast Guard Station and Hulett Ore Unloaders, and extending the Towpath Trail to Whiskey Island. Self-guided walking tours of Wendy Park to the River Boardwalk. Bring picnics, kayaks, volleyballs, cameras, binoculars and feel free to stay for the sunset.

 

Meet at Wendy Park- West Shoreway (Rt. 2) to the Edgewater Park exit, take a right turn at the first road and follow signs.  Contact Ed Hauser at (216) 651-3476 or [email protected].  Visit www.citizensvision.org and www.ohio.sierraclub.org/northeast. Sponsored by the Friends of Whiskey Island and the Northeast Ohio Sierra Club.

 

And for all events along the river on Saturday:

 

http://www.cuyahogariver.net/riverday.htm

 

RiverDay 2007, Saturday, May 19

 

Caring for the Cuyahoga - Participate and Celebrate

 

Join Friends of the Crooked River, RiverDay Sponsors and Event Coordinators for the 17th annual RiverDay. Select an event or two.  Pack up the family.  Join in the celebration of the Cuyahoga. 

 

Participate and get involved by "caring" about the ongoing problems of our river and also to celebrate the accomplishments made over the years.  RiverDay aims to raise awareness and understanding of the policies and practices that improve water quality and wildlife habitat in the watershed.  It's also a day to celebrate the vast recreational, cultural, historic and natural resources of our American Heritage River.

 

How much does a new sign cost? I mean, realistically, when will this project be complete? 2017?

Don't know if this is related, but have you seen Lake Avenue from the Shoreway to W. 117? They took it down from four pseudo lanes to two with a turn lane in the middle. The traffic on tomorrow morning is probably going to be a big pain. To me, I don't see the point of this change. Anyone have any insight?

^It seems to create a lot more order. It may be a pain, but it should be safer.

Well, I personally hate it!

^ I second that! Has anyone noticed that lately on the Shoreway there's been some heavy rush hour traffic? It's getting backed up quite a bit. Unless the new boulevard is similar to Chester Avenue with 3 lanes in each direction, this is going to be a very difficult drive during rush hour.

its because Lake ave is only 2 lanes now

^ I second that! Has anyone noticed that lately on the Shoreway there's been some heavy rush hour traffic? It's getting backed up quite a bit. Unless the new boulevard is similar to Chester Avenue with 3 lanes in each direction, this is going to be a very difficult drive during rush hour.

 

Awesome. Bring on West Shore commuter rail!!

 

(Actually, I understand there will be three lanes in each direction. And the two lanes on Lake is to make clear that it's a two-lane road. I think I side goal is to push traffic over onto the much-wider Clifton Blvd.)

Can someone post the article from Crain's about the Shoreway? The gist of the article is that the county engineer's office is requesting funds for lowering the Shoreway between West 9th and Browns Stadium to at least street level. Yes, an option under discussion is to put the Shoreway in a tunnel in the north end of the Warehouse District. I don't know how that can work, but the concern is that unless enough traffic can be diverted from the West Shoreway (cough, West Shore commuter rail, cough) to keep intersections from failing, then the Shoreway will have to remain grade-separated through downtown.

To improve lake access in Warehouse District, officials study options for Shoreway

 

By JAY MILLER

 

4:30 am, July 2, 2007

 

Local planning and transportation officials want to study ways to connect the Warehouse District in downtown Cleveland more closely with the lakefront by bringing the Shoreway down to street level or below in the area between West Ninth and West Third streets.

 

One option for the Shoreway that the study would examine would be to drop down to street level the elevated highway that carries traffic from the west into downtown from the Main Avenue Bridge. Another option would divert that portion of the roadway underground via a tunnel along the northern portion of the Warehouse District.

You da man!

Plans for West Shoreway hit by rising costs and foggy data from the Ohio Department of Transportation

Posted by Steven Litt August 17, 2007 17:53PM

Categories: City Planning

 

A once-bold vision for the city's lakefront has stalled -- while delays are causing estimated costs to skyrocket.

 

Plans to revamp the West Shoreway have been stalled since March while Cleveland officials have debated whether to include ramps at the west end of the road, which connects downtown to the Edgewater-Cudell neighborhood and Edgewater Park on the city's West Side...

Wasn't ODOT supposed to change under the new administration? 

 

ps: I know that's a cop-out answer, as I've done nothing personally to motivate change, but still...

How would this affect the plans?

"If we're forced to make a decision with respect to the ramps, they're really giving us only one choice. But we're not ready to throw in the towel on that yet."

 

I'm not sure I understand this. It may be an unpalatable situation to be trying to address the ramps issue within a short timeframe. But it seems to me that there are definitely two choices still available. Is he basically saying that the only choice would be to retain the ramps?

I doubt it. If they keep the ramps, it adds about $3-4 million to the project because they'd completely rebuild them. Its cheaper just to eliminate them.

I'm not questioning the numbers, but why does a one month delay add $400k to the budget?  Do the building materials rise in price that much?

Cost of future materials sure as hell doesn't affect their position of building a new innerbelt bridge now, and one 50 years from now.

Wasn't ODOT supposed to change under the new administration? 

 

It's a big bureaucracy. They move like glaciers.

 

I'm not questioning the numbers, but why does a one month delay add $400k to the budget?  Do the building materials rise in price that much?

 

Yes, they do. Especially in the last few years.

Just over one month, though?

^China, India and Russia are buying up all of the building materials in the world right now

Don't forget Dubai.

Is it me, or has the construction on the house near the Westinghouse curve stalled/stopped?

I drove by it saturday and it looked like some backfilling against the foundation had been done; the dozer was parked out front. I'm kind of curious as to what the slowdown/stoppage is all about also.

Will this project actually happen?  Anyone have any scoop?

So with a Dem in the governor's mansion we get more screwed by ODOT?

 

State says West Shoreway plan's unfeasible; city disagrees

Posted by Tom Breckenridge January 25, 2008 20:12PM

Categories: Impact, Traffic

The grand vision of turning the West Shoreway into a tree-lined boulevard faces a scaled-back reality because of traffic and funding issues, state transportation officials say.

 

But frustrated city officials say they'll not let go of the dream -- converting a harsh, 50 mph highway to a 35 mph street and adding intersections, finally affording West siders direct access to Edgewater Park and the lakefront.

OK, so Lakeshore Boulevard in Chicago has less traffic than the West Shoreway in Cleveland? I'd love to see some traffic data comparisons. If the traffic data is higher for Lakeshore Boulevard, then how come it can have intersections and we can't?

 

To me, this sounds like ODOT sticking to its highway engineering credo at the expense of what it takes to spur urban redevelopment. They are often mutually exclusive, at least where ODOT's predispositions are concerned. Now if ODOT was more progressive in understanding that better highway geometry for faster/higher volume traffic doesn't make for better urban neighborhoods, then maybe we'll get somewhere. And I suspect that last sentence of mine will be as understandable to an ODOT engineer as an ancient Egyptian trying to read HTML code.

OK, so Lakeshore Boulevard in Chicago has less traffic than the West Shoreway in Cleveland? I'd love to see some traffic data comparisons. If the traffic data is higher for Lakeshore Boulevard, then how come it can have intersections and we can't?

 

another example is el camino real or middlefield road/central expresswaythat runs through silicon valley in california.  it is 35 to 45mph, is at least 7 lanes at each intersection (not including a large landscaped median), follows rail tracks (for caltrain), has multiple intersections, and carries a LOT of traffic without much disruption.  google has some good street views of this area:

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=palo+alto&ie=UTF8&ll=37.403028,-122.107244&spn=0.013807,0.024633&z=15&om=0&layer=c&cbll=37.404608,-122.101017

 

cleveland (and ohio as a whole) needs to get on board with smarter traffic management systems - ie, smart traffic lights (don't hold a pedestrian cross sign for 45 seconds when no one is crossing, ability to determine if there is 1, 2, or 10 cars waiting to turn or cross and set timing appropriately)

 

edit: added link

So with a Dem in the governor's mansion we get more screwed by ODOT?

 

Apologizes to our friends in central Ohio (I lived there for 12 years) but if this project was in Columbus it would have been done already. The Cleve is getting screwed here. The last major infrastructure project by ODOT in these parts, someone correct me if I'm wrong -- the I-271 express lanes, started over 15 years ago, when we had a Clevelander in the governors mansion.

 

All our gas taxes here seem to go mainly for one thing -- adding lanes for the escape to the exurbs!!!

 

I mean holy crap, this is a no brainer and economic spin-off and (I'm just guessing) associated taxes from new development on a new lakefront boulevard would pay the city and state back in a very reasonable time frame. I know that's not part of the equation for ODOT... :x

Apologizes to our friends in central Ohio (I lived there for 12 years) but if this project was in Columbus it would have been done already.

 

I dont agree.

 

I smell political posturing at play.  Something is really fishy.

This says it all: 

 

ODOT says intersections planned for West 45th Street, West 54th/Division Avenue and West 73rd will create unacceptable traffic backups during rush hours.

 

God forbid we build communities that are nice for the 23 hours a day that aren't rush-hour.

 

I don't really understand this whole issue- can't Hebebrand just be ordered to accomodate the City's demands by the governor's office?  I'm going to go out on a limb and say Lee Fisher would probably side with the city on this.

I suspect Fisher would too. There are people around him who also would see things the city's way and not ODOT's -- but only if they're not so buried with other tasks/issues that they're aware of what's going on. If they're made aware of what Hebebrand and his Old ODOT Posse are trying to do, then they can get Fisher and Director Beasely to put heat on Hebebrand and actually listen to the local government. Geez I hate these f*cking cementheads at ODOT.

So with a Dem in the governor's mansion we get more screwed by ODOT?

 

Apologizes to our friends in central Ohio (I lived there for 12 years) but if this project was in Columbus it would have been done already. The Cleve is getting screwed here. The last major infrastructure project by ODOT in these parts, someone correct me if I'm wrong  -- the I-271 express lanes, started over 15 years ago, when we had a Clevelander in the governors mansion.

 

All our gas taxes here seem to go mainly for one thing -- adding lanes for the escape to the exurbs!!!

 

I mean holy crap, this is a no brainer and economic spin-off and (I'm just guessing) associated taxes from new development on a new lakefront boulevard would pay the city and state back in a very reasonable time frame. I know that's not part of the equation for ODOT...  :x

 

Apologies accepted...but then I am originally from NE Ohio myself! As to Cleveburg getting screwed, look at it this way. Yes, Columbus has had a knack for getting way more than it's share of highway dollars, but what has that accomplished? A paved-over downtown, too much highway capacity and redundancy (take a look at I-270 near Easton), near-total auto dependence, sprawling suburbs, an emasculated public transit system. Some here wish we had been a bit less successful getting highway money!

 

As far as Cleveland goes, someone...and by this I mean the Mayor or other high-ranking official...should go to Lt. Gov. Fisher and press the case for conversion of the Shoreway. The city should be prepared to take over this highway and the air rights over the railroad tracks below and then promote a major development of this area. That could include a new intermodal hub directly connected with the Convention center, retail and new high-rise housing.

 

So the question becomes, how to get the Mayor involved. I would suggest that all those interested request an audience with the Mayor and city council to make the case to change the Shoreway to a boulevard and put the issue on the front burner. ODOT is going to do what ODOT always does, unless someone forces the issue.

The question gets anwered to me; we miss out on federal monies because our govt peeps don't do the papework; we don't have enough of a connection between our local reps, including the Mayor, and the State. I always get the impression, and maybe it's just me, that fiefdoms here in Cleveland are more important to our local people than developing a long term network of brainstorming and negotiations with state and county officials.  Is it me or is this true? It's like the Bush Admn just calling Iraq evil etc and diplomacy going by the wayside.

 

If you can shed some light that proves me wrong I will be glad! 

What a joke!

 

I absolutely hate when "traffic" is used as an excuse in this city for ANYTHING!  We don't have traffic!  A couple accidents during rush hours don't count either!  Has anyone EVER been stuck on the Shoreway or any freeway for the matter during the off-peak hours?  And by stuck I mean more than twice a year?  NO!  Hell, you can go to/from downtown/Strongsville during rush hour in the direction of rush hour traffic in 35 minutes easy.  I've commuted from B-tucky to downtown when I interned over summers and winters and only a handful of times was it "bad".  It doesn't take 90 minutes to go to Hopkins from downtown during rush hour OR  45 minutes to reach the end of the West Shoreway on a daily basis!

 

Why does ODOT care if it's 35 mph?   How will this really affect them down there?  This is just like the Innerbelt in that  projects meant to heal the divides created by massive infrastructure projects loose sight of the original intent!

Overall I can agree.  However, I have been on 271/480 during a rush hour and it is bad.

 

Its been eons, since I've driven downtown during rush hour so I cant say what that drive is like during, but I can't imagine it being bad with all the Avenues and expressways we have.

 

 

The question gets anwered to me; we miss out on federal monies because our govt peeps don't do the papework; we don't have enough of a connection between our local reps, including the Mayor, and the State.

 

Is this enough of a connection?

 

Lee Fisher chooses Detroit Shoreway neighborhood

to announce candidacy for Lieutenant Governor

 

(Plain Press, February 2006) On Thursday January 26th, Ohio gubernatorial candidate Congressman Ted Strickland announced that former Ohio Attorney General and 1998 Democratic gubernatorial nominee Lee Fisher is his choice for Lieutenant Governor.

 

The announcement of Fisher’s candidacy was made at the Ward 17 Office of Councilman Matt Zone at W. 65th and Detroit Avenue. Until recently, the site served as the Zone Travel Agency, which Peggy Zone Fisher managed for over 30 years. Peggy Zone Fisher is married to Lee Fisher, and is Councilman Matt Zone’s brother.

 

In choosing Fisher as his running mate, Strickland said, “I wanted someone with experience with Cleveland, someone who would send a message that we are serious about moving this region forward.”

 

 

Outstanding find, DanB! I'll mention this to Matt this evening.