We may just have a race on our hands now who can build all these proposals/plans fastest! Really exciting times!!!!

That version of the article says the tower will be both along the banks of the Ohio River, and in the Central Business District. 

 

That tower in Nashville is being built next to Vanderbilt University, at least a mile from the Cumberland River.  I assume that the design of a tower at the banquet center site would "face" the river. 

Is anyone getting early 1980's Toronto vibes, when it comes to Cincinnati? Especially with all the new building boom as of just recently. Makes you wonder if Cincinnati is on a similar path to toronto in that regard.

Is anyone getting early 1980's Toronto vibes, when it comes to Cincinnati? Especially with all the new building boom as of just recently. Makes you wonder if Cincinnati is on a similar path to toronto in that regard.

 

We're not like Toronto because that is the largest city of an entire nation which enhances Toronto's economic prospects significantly. It is promising for us however because this urban growth has the chance to truly add new people from outside the region and to incubate and attract new businesses whereas suburban growth is somewhat zero-sum for the region as a whole. A strong core is like an economic furnace.

No,  thebillshark, what I'm referring to is if you look at Toronto pictures on google from the 1970's/1980's, it's still a relatively small city thats only a bit more developed than Cincinnati is today.  But as we all know toronto experienced a growth spurt after that period.  I'm wondering if cincinnati is at the beginiing preliminary stages of a similar growth spurt that Toronto has experienced/still experiencing. 

^i don't want to get too far off topic here but I don't think so... Toronto has experienced tremendous growth since then and a large part of it is because they are the largest city in Canada, which means it became the de facto "capital" of a lot of industries for the entire nation. The seed was planted even back in the 70s/80s. Cincinnati enjoys no such advantage and obvious driver of economic growth. In fact we're in a constant battle to stay "relevant". But the best thing we can do is create a vibrant walkable urban core where businesses grow organically.

^i don't want to get too far off topic here but I don't think so... Toronto has experienced tremendous growth since then and a large part of it is because they are the largest city in Canada, which means it became the de facto "capital" of a lot of industries for the entire nation. The seed was planted even back in the 70s/80s. Cincinnati enjoys no such advantage and obvious driver of economic growth. In fact we're in a constant battle to stay "relevant". But the best thing we can do is create a vibrant walkable urban core where businesses grow organically.

 

I think people under estimate the Cincinnati region. Take siteselection recent report where we rank 4th in NA for development. We rank fairly high in multiple categories. If we can bring all this development closer to the urban core the possibilities are endless.

 

Reference:

http://siteselection.com/cc/wmcc/2015/

Toronto attracted some of Montreal's biggest companies after the Parti Quebec or whatever they're called took over provincial politics and made English a secondary language.  Since the 80s rural Canadians and overseas immigrants have moved en masse to Toronto, not Montreal, because of the ongoing nonsense over Quebec independence.  At work I periodically deal with companies in Quebec and it's a total pain in the ass because they might have one person who speaks English. 

 

^I bet more of them do speak English but don't want to.

^ So true. I love Quebec, but they take the French thing a bit far, IMO. I recently had to set up a focus group in Montreal, and it was hell trying to coordinate everything with the team up there, schedule an interpreter, etc. It's like, come on guys, you're still in North America...

Is anyone getting early 1980's Toronto vibes, when it comes to Cincinnati? Especially with all the new building boom as of just recently. Makes you wonder if Cincinnati is on a similar path to toronto in that regard.

 

I for one cannot wait for Cincinnati to be chosen as filming location for the Short Circuit reboot!

 

^Sidenote:  It's amazing to me that the 30 year old robot is the least dated thing in that photo.

Very exciting news!

 

Does anyone have an idea as to the height of the building, with 25 stories?

 

In that area, there is a ton of room for more development.  This could become a hot area of downtown, considering it runs close to the parks, etc.  It is a bit of a ways from the streetcar though.  I am not certain if it was billshark who had an idea of a streetcar in this general area.  I know that Urbancincy had a post about the development potential in this general area.  Good times for Cincinnati and all this action, including the condo towers on main, etc. is only going to spur more and more development and shops. 

 

The way that I think about Urban areas is similar to what billshark said, is that dense, walkable urban areas create their own type of micro economy within the macro economy of the region.  It seems the urban core of Cincinnati is moving closer and closer to a self sustaining model.  You also must keep in mind, as in my mind  :laugh: , that I think OTR will develop as mostly an upscale area in regards to housing, as there is limited space in OTR with zoning, etc.  Downtown will eventually become more of a mix with a lot more young professional types than OTR, housing wise.  Also, I think that Vine Street will continue to develop as a retail and restaurant destination as it is already.

 

Note: On the "5 Things to Know" on the Biz Journals website, Rob Daumeyer mentioned that there is another big downtown announcement next week.  Could this be the 4th and Race project?  I am hoping so.  I've selfishly been waiting on this for awhile!!

^i don't want to get too far off topic here but I don't think so... Toronto has experienced tremendous growth since then and a large part of it is because they are the largest city in Canada, which means it became the de facto "capital" of a lot of industries for the entire nation. The seed was planted even back in the 70s/80s. Cincinnati enjoys no such advantage and obvious driver of economic growth. In fact we're in a constant battle to stay "relevant". But the best thing we can do is create a vibrant walkable urban core where businesses grow organically.

 

I think people under estimate the Cincinnati region. Take siteselection recent report where we rank 4th in NA for development. We rank fairly high in multiple categories. If we can bring all this development closer to the urban core the possibilities are endless.

 

Reference:

http://siteselection.com/cc/wmcc/2015/

 

I agree completely, and it really highlights how most growth in Cincy is concentrated in the suburbs and the main things that hold the city (and the region) back aren't economic fundamentals but cultural conservatism.

hope this thing gets built quickly.

^ So true. I love Quebec, but they take the French thing a bit far, IMO. I recently had to set up a focus group in Montreal, and it was hell trying to coordinate everything with the team up there, schedule an interpreter, etc. It's like, come on guys, you're still in North America...

 

It gets even worse...there is actually an island off the coast that is still a French territory where they not only speak French, they use the Euro. Yes, there is a place in North America that does business with Euros.  It's like if Middle Bass Island used British Pounds.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Pierre_and_Miquelon

 

I'm very happy that this project is being proposed and will hopefully become a great addition to the skyline. East Pete Rose Way and Eggleston can easily hold a dozen buildings of this size. However, I worry that this one, and maybe others, won't really add to the urban fabric / culture of downtown. What I mean is that I really don't see people who live here walking to the get places. I work right next to this location, and live in OTR, and walk to work every day. It's a doable, but solid 22 minute commute. Maybe 7 on a bike. I highly doubt that the average resident of this building will be willing to do that. What's the difference, then, of living downtown and driving to Senate, vs living anywhere else and driving in?

 

Look at One Lytle. It has a private shuttle service that I've seen people use to get dropped on at Atrium 2 on 4th Street in the mornings. I see this new building operating in much the same way.

Note: On the "5 Things to Know" on the Biz Journals website, Rob Daumeyer mentioned that there is another big downtown announcement next week.  Could this be the 4th and Race project?  I am hoping so.  I've selfishly been waiting on this for awhile!!

 

Yes

I don't think that's what was being referred to in the "5 things to know" article. It sounded like something completely new to be announced, not an update. But that might be my wishful thinking.

 

Cincy's Skyhouse will be the exact same as Nashville's at 289 feet tall (second tallest residential in the city or third if you include the Ascent which is four feet taller) and 352 units. They are optimistic about starting construction before the end of the year which is completely doable, especially since it's a recycled design.

I'm very happy that this project is being proposed and will hopefully become a great addition to the skyline. East Pete Rose Way and Eggleston can easily hold a dozen buildings of this size. However, I worry that this one, and maybe others, won't really add to the urban fabric / culture of downtown. What I mean is that I really don't see people who live here walking to the get places. I work right next to this location, and live in OTR, and walk to work every day. It's a doable, but solid 22 minute commute. Maybe 7 on a bike. I highly doubt that the average resident of this building will be willing to do that. What's the difference, then, of living downtown and driving to Senate, vs living anywhere else and driving in?

 

Look at One Lytle. It has a private shuttle service that I've seen people use to get dropped on at Atrium 2 on 4th Street in the mornings. I see this new building operating in much the same way.

 

Agreed, but I think some of that is attributable to the poor pedestrian experience between Pete Rose Way and the rest of downtown.  I wouldn't be surprised to see these residents walking or taking Red Bike to restaurants and movies at Newport on the Levee, though, because the PPB is far more pleasant than any of the paths from this site to downtown.

I'm very happy that this project is being proposed and will hopefully become a great addition to the skyline. East Pete Rose Way and Eggleston can easily hold a dozen buildings of this size. However, I worry that this one, and maybe others, won't really add to the urban fabric / culture of downtown. What I mean is that I really don't see people who live here walking to the get places. I work right next to this location, and live in OTR, and walk to work every day. It's a doable, but solid 22 minute commute. Maybe 7 on a bike. I highly doubt that the average resident of this building will be willing to do that. What's the difference, then, of living downtown and driving to Senate, vs living anywhere else and driving in?

 

Look at One Lytle. It has a private shuttle service that I've seen people use to get dropped on at Atrium 2 on 4th Street in the mornings. I see this new building operating in much the same way.

 

It's a half mile walk in the park (literally) to Streetcar Stop #1, so I bet some people living in Skyhouse will use it.

 

EDIT: Also if you're on a bicycle, Eggleston Ave. is sort of like a "warp zone" shortcut to OTR from that area.

Now we need the mock-up skyline view from our UO in-house artists!

I'm very happy that this project is being proposed and will hopefully become a great addition to the skyline. East Pete Rose Way and Eggleston can easily hold a dozen buildings of this size. However, I worry that this one, and maybe others, won't really add to the urban fabric / culture of downtown. What I mean is that I really don't see people who live here walking to the get places. I work right next to this location, and live in OTR, and walk to work every day. It's a doable, but solid 22 minute commute. Maybe 7 on a bike. I highly doubt that the average resident of this building will be willing to do that. What's the difference, then, of living downtown and driving to Senate, vs living anywhere else and driving in?

 

Look at One Lytle. It has a private shuttle service that I've seen people use to get dropped on at Atrium 2 on 4th Street in the mornings. I see this new building operating in much the same way.

 

It's a half mile walk in the park (literally) to Streetcar Stop #1, so I bet some people living in Skyhouse will use it.

 

EDIT: Also if you're on a bicycle, Eggleston Ave. is sort of like a "warp zone" shortcut to OTR from that area.

 

Funny how true that is about Eggleston. It's like the green pipes on Super Mario Bros.

 

As mentioned, this side of the CBD has all kinds of open lots. Really, it could become self-sustaining. That's years off though. But we could have a Bucktown revival.

It's a half mile walk in the park (literally) to Streetcar Stop #1, so I bet some people living in Skyhouse will use it.

 

EDIT: Also if you're on a bicycle, Eggleston Ave. is sort of like a "warp zone" shortcut to OTR from that area.

 

The 7 minute time is via Eggleston, which is what I take. *I* agree that it is very doable, as is the walk to the southernmost streetcar stop. However, I have a hard time convincing coworkers right now to walk to Fountain Square.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I see this development as being more of an island unto itself.

Now we need the mock-up skyline view from our UO in-house artists!

 

Already on it. I have a fully modeled version of 8th and Sycamore that I've inserted into Google Earth and posted pictures of in its thread and I'll try to find time this weekend to model Skyhouse and the 8th and Main buildings and put them into Google Earth as well. They'll likely be pretty basic though since this weekend is already packed with helping friends get their rental property ready for tenants and beginning my own search for rental property in NKY

 

So time might not permit a fully detailed model. But I can get something roughed out that's more than a rectangular box. I looked on the 3D Warehouse in Sketchup to see if someone had already modeled one of the other Skyhouses but didn't find anything in the 2 minute search I did. But I'm sure it's out there so maybe I can find a fully modeled one to just insert into Cincinnati.

jmicha[/member] are you leaving race st?

Nope, staying on Race for the foreseeable future. I love my studio and living where I do. And leaving so close to the opening of the streetcar would feel silly.

 

I'm looking at income properties that are affordable but rent for a good amount. I feel really confident about Covington's future and view purchasing property there as a longterm asset that can make enough profit after setting aside a hefty chunk for future maintenance to reinvest in further real estate endeavors. I don't need rental profit to supplement my lifestyle since I live pretty modestly so any money it makes can just be further expanded into more rental property which, when I'm old and grey, will be a steady source of income. At least that's the goal haha. That's 4 decades off still so a LOT could change between now and then.

Best of luck!

^^A friend of mine just bought a house on 9th Street (just west of Main) in Covington. He got a really good deal. 3 Bedroom house with 12 foot ceilings for under $150k. A bunch of properties around the area are getting rehabbed.

There is so much potential and it seems like it is starting to get realized. With 25% down I can afford a max of around 100k. My goal is to get something under that, preferably a 2 unit building. I've found some in some rougher areas but that I'm seeing a lot of potential in. Wallace Woods specifically and the areas around it are enticing. A little far from the river but there's a lot of nice architecture there that is really solid and brings in decent rent when compared to how much they cost to purchase/own/maintain.

It's a half mile walk in the park (literally) to Streetcar Stop #1, so I bet some people living in Skyhouse will use it.

 

EDIT: Also if you're on a bicycle, Eggleston Ave. is sort of like a "warp zone" shortcut to OTR from that area.

 

The 7 minute time is via Eggleston, which is what I take. *I* agree that it is very doable, as is the walk to the southernmost streetcar stop. However, I have a hard time convincing coworkers right now to walk to Fountain Square.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I see this development as being more of an island unto itself.

 

Funny how once the streetcar project got its final approval, the "Hop On Trolley" proposal disappeared. This would be a perfect route for a shuttle bus -- connect the streetcar stop at The Banks to the Purple People Bridge and perhaps some other points east.

It's a half mile walk in the park (literally) to Streetcar Stop #1, so I bet some people living in Skyhouse will use it.

 

EDIT: Also if you're on a bicycle, Eggleston Ave. is sort of like a "warp zone" shortcut to OTR from that area.

 

The 7 minute time is via Eggleston, which is what I take. *I* agree that it is very doable, as is the walk to the southernmost streetcar stop. However, I have a hard time convincing coworkers right now to walk to Fountain Square.

 

I hope I'm wrong, but I see this development as being more of an island unto itself.

 

Funny how once the streetcar project got its final approval, the "Hop On Trolley" proposal disappeared. This would be a perfect route for a shuttle bus -- connect the streetcar stop at The Banks to the Purple People Bridge and perhaps some other points east.

 

Yeah maybe they could do a high frequency "Cinculator" bus from Streetcar Stop #1 to Columbia Tusculum and Mt. Lookout Square.

 

Alternatively a Newport streetcar could have a stop on the Ohio side of whichever bridge it crosses (probably Taylor Southgate) that would be that much closer to this development.

Got around to quickly making a model of SkyHouse based on the dimensions of all their other ones. It makes quite a dramatic addition from some viewpoints. Obviously we don't know how they'll arrange the tower on the site but I figured the long side would run parallel to the river. This could wind up being completely wrong but until we know more I think this is the best guess.

 

I also included 8th and Sycamore and two white boxes the size of the 8th and Main midrises which I haven't modeled in any detail at all. One thing to note is that Google Earth doesn't yet have Seven at Broadway modeled beyond the garage base so that would be in some of these views as well.

 

As usual, if anyone has an angle request, just let me know.

 

Edit: Received updated information about orientation of tower. Look downthread for 11 images of the building in the correct orientation.

^I didn't realize how big the site is relative to the building footprint. There's a lot of leftover space.  I wonder if the structure will front Pete Rose Way or be closer to the river as pictured in your #5.

While looking up the other SkyHouses they all have completely separate parking garages that are, unfortunately, all incredibly ugly. So I have a feeling we'll be seeing a big empty garage either front the park or front Pete Rose Way.

 

But even then the site is bigger than is needed for just that. I don't want to speculate or start throwing around rumors that are unsubstantiated but I wonder if they're going to leave enough space for a SkyHouse II on this property like they have in a couple other cities so that eventually they can have a pair. If they rotated them to have the short side facing the river your units would still have river views but would have better city views on one side and you could easily have two of them plus the garage in the middle.

 

Ours is stated to be a $90 million project. The average SkyHouse project is only $65 million and our site sure as hell isn't very expensive at only $2.7 million. Nashville's tower sits on a nearly $12 million site and had a $60 million construction cost on top of that.

 

I'm curious what the additional cost is in the case of ours. A larger garage perhaps...to support a future second tower...

 

Edit: Like this.

 

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2.

One thing that I'm most excited about is the effect this project will have on out-of-town developers. The South has a TON of big name developers who seem to be able to get s**t done! Even though their product is usually pretty generic it would be nice to be infused with a dozen or so new towers to modernize the skyline a bit and add some critical mass. Being that Novare Group has developed in just about every major city in the South and has competitors I have a feeling this move to the Midwest might bring with it their competition. Which I'd be fully on board for.

jmicha[/member] thanks for making those renderings. In my head I had figured that the building would front EPRW, with the garage moving toward the river and a large deck on top of the garage or something. It's worth noting that the land really angles down from the road to the park, which means that hopefully the parking structure can be built partially underground.

 

I'm also curious to discover what the entire site plan will look like re continuing parking for the workers who use that lot for the red brick building next door.

So someone saw the site plan. Tower has a north-south orientation, fronts East Pete Rose Way, and is along the eastern side of the site. Room for a future tower not shown but at the same time the tower and garage don't utilize the entire site.

From the Business Courier:

 

Only about one-tenth of the site will be used for the apartment tower. Plans also call for a parking garage and a large green space. Borders said this design, with a north or south orientation, will have a low impact with regard to views.

Right, because there's not enough "green space" already. 

I reoriented the tower in Google Earth and took some images to get a more accurate view of how it will impact the skyline.

 

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A north-south orientation maximizes the number of units with direct light, too.

Did a short drone overview of the area:

 

What's the elevation there at that point compared to the CBD?

^ 5th Street at Fountain Square is 550', Pete Rose Way here is 502' but it drops to 486' at the railroad tracks.

Whelp, that area looks EXTREMELY unpedestrian friendly.

 

I can't imagine how I could freely walk to say the cincinnati library, very much an island like someone mentioned earlier. That highway overpass is brutal.

^pete rose way/riverside drive is a pretty busy street, but this is literally on the riverfront park, it couldnt be more pedestrian friendly. that overpass isnt bad, i walk under it almost every day going to/from work. i dont think anyone envisions this area turning into an entertainment destination, but, instead, a more residential area. so the library? its a half mile away no matter how you cut it. the overpass doesnt hinder you there - theres a sidewalk that connects pete rose way and E. 3rd if your goal is to get to the core of downtown... but the taft museum, the new lytle park, the entire riverfront park being within a couple hundred yards, this place is actually pretty connected. topographically it is isolated, and will continue to be so, but that actually creates an opportunity for a more distinct, quieter, residential condo district.

I'd say that here, like in most cases, perception matters more than reality. Few know about the under-the-overpass pedestrian connection to Lytle park. The highway is a big psychological barrier, and is unpleasant to walk under / around.

Extreme is a harsh word. I'm sure people weren't complaining when railroads cut through the east side of downtown, separating it from Mt. Adams, or along the riverfront when there was actually industry.

I'd say that here, like in most cases, perception matters more than reality. Few know about the under-the-overpass pedestrian connection to Lytle park. The highway is a big psychological barrier, and is unpleasant to walk under / around.

 

If the pathway could be widened between Pete Rose Way and 3rd&Butler, that would help tremendously.  Its current form is basically just a narrow sidewalk between a row of bushes and a wall.  I take that all the time and it's quick, but not particularly inviting.  I imagine that it feels unsafe to some because you're pretty isolated and there aren't any sightlines.