I think JYP[/member] (see his comment near the top of this page) is on to something. Construction costs in Cincinnati are rising, yet rents have topped out. Not a great formula for getting new investors to develop here. I'm sure the upcoming steel tariffs will only hurt the Cincinnati market even more.

Oh, you can be certain that they would have made money in Cincinnati. Just not enough money.  Why make 10% on your $ in Cincinnati when you can make 20% elsewhere?  These apartment developers build the thing, get it rented, then sell to buy-and-hold people.  The higher the rents, the more they can sell for. 

 

 

Steel and rising interest rates killed this project and it will be killing many more projects like this that are not already under construction.

^ Another factor is the homeownership rate. It bottomed out in 2016 and has been on the rise the past two years. In a market like Cincinnati, with plentiful cheap housing, that means stagnant rents as more young people opt for $1000 monthly mortgage payments instead of $1200 rents.

 

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RHORUSQ156N

 

According to this article on Zillow, the rate increased in Cincinnati by 4% from February 2017 to February 2018, putting it among the fastest growing metros in the country:

 

https://www.zillow.com/research/homeownership-household-formation-18556/

That's an interesting theory, but if that's the primary factor, shouldn't we be seeing more condo projects downtown? Griewe couldn't make his proposed condo tower work and switched it to microapartments. I think a bigger factor is that more people (whether they choose to rent or buy) are choosing to live in neighborhoods that hit a certain sweet spot—a 10 or 15 minute drive from downtown, significantly cheaper than downtown, yet still walkable/bikeable/on a bus route.

That's an interesting theory, but if that's the primary factor, shouldn't we be seeing more condo projects downtown? Griewe couldn't make his proposed condo tower work and switched it to microapartments. I think a bigger factor is that more people (whether they choose to rent or buy) are choosing to live in neighborhoods that hit a certain sweet spot—a 10 or 15 minute drive from downtown, significantly cheaper than downtown, yet still walkable/bikeable/on a bus route.

 

I think you're right about close-in neighborhoods. Just look at Westwood. Five years ago homes languished on the market and rarely sold over $100k. Now, those same homes sell day of listing for up to $150k and beyond. Only in the worst areas are properties sitting on the market. 

^ Another factor is the homeownership rate. It bottomed out in 2016 and has been on the rise the past two years. In a market like Cincinnati, with plentiful cheap housing, that means stagnant rents as more young people opt for $1000 monthly mortgage payments instead of $1200 rents.

 

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RHORUSQ156N

 

According to this article on Zillow, the rate increased in Cincinnati by 4% from February 2017 to February 2018, putting it among the fastest growing metros in the country:

 

https://www.zillow.com/research/homeownership-household-formation-18556/

 

That is not the influencer on the high end apartments. People are renting here as a lifestyle choice. They don't want a crappy house in Westwood or Madisonville when they can pay $2000/month or more for a place in the Skyhouse.  WHen you have a rise in material prices for a large project of say 10-15% that is a ton of money. Plus, your financing changes on the whole project. Interest on such a construction loan is now say 5.5% or more and then it takes a while to lease and perm financing is a lot higher now than a year ago at this time. A 50-100  basis point change makes a huge difference on a project of this size.

I think you're right about close-in neighborhoods. Just look at Westwood. Five years ago homes languished on the market and rarely sold over $100k. Now, those same homes sell day of listing for up to $150k and beyond. Only in the worst areas are properties sitting on the market. 

 

It seems like citywide we're seeing a lot of 2-bed 1-bath type homes sit and sit on the market while people leap at the 3-bed 2-baths.  Any house with a weird layout, a circa-1989 DIY renovation, etc. is languishing.

 

In OTR the sub-$250k condos are sitting and sitting.  Same problem -- weird layouts/poles in the middle of the kitchen/upper floor units with no elevator.  But the more expensive and newer units are moving. 

 

https://cagis.hamilton-co.org/opal/apd.aspx?QSPerm=2019P03915

 

SIAP:

 

Anyone know what this would be in reference to? Don't think I've seen anything in a planning packet about it. Permit application is for a 75,000 sq. ft. commercial building constructed by Milhaus (of the Gantry in Northside and Poste in Walnut Hills) to go on the land where that Atlanta developer was supposed to put a condo tower (name escapes me)? 

So this is going where SkyHouse was going to go?

9 minutes ago, Pdrome513 said:

https://cagis.hamilton-co.org/opal/apd.aspx?QSPerm=2019P03915

 

SIAP:

 

Anyone know what this would be in reference to? Don't think I've seen anything in a planning packet about it. Permit application is for a 75,000 sq. ft. commercial building constructed by Milhaus (of the Gantry in Northside and Poste in Walnut Hills) to go on the land where that Atlanta developer was supposed to put a condo tower (name escapes me)? 

New to me, but i bet if it is under 2 stories tall it will fly through with nary a peep from the Mt Adams folk who raised a fuss earlier with the various high rise designs. Isnt what was there as the Montgomery Inn banquet center in the 1990's a 75000sf commercial building?

Time to start the rumor that this is where the Hiltop Concrete plant is moving so MEMI gets their new concert pavillion.

 

4 minutes ago, SleepyLeroy said:

Time to start the rumor that this is where the Hiltop Concrete plant is moving so MEMI gets their new concert pavillion.

 

 

Nope. WVXU already broke the news on the new hilltop location 

https://www.wvxu.org/post/rare-and-welcome-gift-hilltop-solution-move-banks-music-venue-forward

 

1 minute ago, troeros said:

 

Nope. WVXU already broke the news on the new hilltop location 

https://www.wvxu.org/post/rare-and-welcome-gift-hilltop-solution-move-banks-music-venue-forward

 

I know, i was just trying to ruffle some Mt Adams nimbys

 

What a waste of prime riverfront and park front location

30 minutes ago, SleepyLeroy said:

New to me, but i bet if it is under 2 stories tall it will fly through with nary a peep from the Mt Adams folk who raised a fuss earlier with the various high rise designs. Isnt what was there as the Montgomery Inn banquet center in the 1990's a 75000sf commercial building?

You are correct was the Ted Gregory Event Center. They tore it down for a development of two midrise buildings (condos) then the economy crashed and project was cancelled. I dont have any knowledge of this new project, but wouldnt surprise me if they just built a parking garage... something we really need smh. 

1 hour ago, Pdrome513 said:

Permit application is for a 75,000 sq. ft. commercial building constructed by Milhaus (of the Gantry in Northside and Poste in Walnut Hills) to go on the land where that Atlanta developer was supposed to put a condo tower (name escapes me)? 

 How do you find the permit application that shows the 75,000 sqft commercial building info?

I'm about to reveal I was an arts major but... it's in a spreadsheet thing of the Building Permits thing on the CincyInsights thing: https://data.cincinnati-oh.gov/Thriving-Healthy-Neighborhoods/Cincinnati-Building-Permits/uhjb-xac9/data 

 

I usually check every Monday for new buildings. 

Edited May 6, 20196 yr by Pdrome513

So Skyhouse is officially on the Crancelled ash heap. 

Edited June 20, 20195 yr by Rabbit Hash

2 hours ago, Rabbit Hash said:

So Skyhouse is officially on the Cracelled ash heap. 

Yep they didn't pay to play, so move along say Napoleon...

From the most recent planning commission packet (and a new building permit for the same plot issued last week), looks like the final numbers from Milhaus are 6-7 stories, ~90 ft tall, 344 residential units, 400 parking spaces, and 7,750 sq. ft. of ground floor commercial space. 

 

This won't change the skyline or anything, but it should do a nice job of filling out that area. Moreover 344 units is greater than what's being added by Court&Walnut and 8th&Main combined, so that's something.

 

My one question is, all else equal, wouldn't this go better on Lot 24 of The Banks? 

Edited June 17, 20195 yr by Pdrome513

Wait so this project is happening?

 

Also, could you post the link? I'm curious

Edited June 17, 20195 yr by seaswan

Yawn. This is going to underwhelming in an area of CBD that needs more...Banks would be better. 

Any renderings of what this will look like?  It must be pretty wide to be only 6-7 stories but have 344 units and 400 parking spaces. 

21 hours ago, seaswan said:

Wait so this project is happening?

 

Also, could you post the link? I'm curious

 

https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning/city-planning-commission/jun-21-2019-packet/

 

It's Item 1. I'd just like to see anything happen on this lot and 344 units is awesome if that really happens. Would really add more people to the riverfront and I think it would work in synergy with both Newport on the Levee and The Banks. 

^ Wont happen, this lot is cursed. Nothing will happen at this lot.

what makes you say that?

Because this site has had multiple proposals that have not come to fruition. However, with this being the most underwhelming of them all, it no doubtfully will be built with Cranley in power.

Evan Millward had a pic of the new place "The Artistry" on Twitter. Curious if you all had any opinions,,,,,,,,,,,,,,just kidding of course you do! ?

 

This piece of land is really big.  Looks like about 350x300.  So basically as big as the Radius + GE block.  Radius has 290 apartments so it's not hard to imagine getting 350 apartments on a piece of land that is about 1/3 bigger. 

 

Cranley-tized!

Biz article.

 

Indianapolis-based developer Milhaus plans to build a $77 million, 344-unit apartment building near the Ohio River downtown, along with a 390-space garage, a project known as Artistry Cincinnati. “Artistry will offer the best of all aspects of Cincinnati urban living – close proximity to the city’s best employment center and entertainment districts, all while being in a quiet location along the beautiful Ohio River Trail” said Jake Dietrich, MIlhaus’ development director.

 

The mixed-use development at 601 Pete Rose Way also will have 8,000 square feet of commercial space.

Artistry’s amenities will include a rooftop pool and aqua lounge, two-story fitness center, yoga studio, maker’s space, co-working spaces inside and outdoors, a community garden, secure bike storage, a pet spa and wi-fi in common areas.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/06/20/developer-plans-75-million-apartment-project-along.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

Developer plans $77 million apartment project along the Ohio River – with artistic touch

 

An Indianapolis developer plans to build a $77 million, 344-unit apartment building near the Ohio River downtown, along with a 390-space garage.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/06/20/developer-plans-75-million-apartment-project-along.html

1 hour ago, tonyt3524 said:

Biz article.

 

Indianapolis-based developer Milhaus plans to build a $77 million, 344-unit apartment building near the Ohio River downtown, along with a 390-space garage, a project known as Artistry Cincinnati. “Artistry will offer the best of all aspects of Cincinnati urban living – close proximity to the city’s best employment center and entertainment districts, all while being in a quiet location along the beautiful Ohio River Trail” said Jake Dietrich, MIlhaus’ development director.

 

The mixed-use development at 601 Pete Rose Way also will have 8,000 square feet of commercial space.

Artistry’s amenities will include a rooftop pool and aqua lounge, two-story fitness center, yoga studio, maker’s space, co-working spaces inside and outdoors, a community garden, secure bike storage, a pet spa and wi-fi in common areas.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/06/20/developer-plans-75-million-apartment-project-along.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

What is everyone’s thoughts on this project? While I’m hoping something will go here (hopefully) I wish it was at least 10 floors. I think my expectation is higher since skyhouse was going to go here.

I dread the day when developers propose 6 story 2x4 structures and end up building pole barns.

Boring. We go from 25 stories to something better suited for Liberty Township. I guess Milhaus donates to the right campaigns. 

I'll go in the other direction. This project and Skyhouse aren't terribly dissimilar, with the obvious exception of the form factor. ~350 units, luxe amenities (pool, 2 story fitness center, local art installations, etc.). I also don't think we've gotten a render that fairly shows the massing (if I'm using that word correctly) compared to its surroundings. I have a feeling the end result will feel more significant than what we have implies. 

 

The $6m going to CPS and $2.5 going to the streetcar ain't bad either. 

Edited June 21, 20195 yr by Pdrome513

Yeah in terms of raw numbers, I'm not too mad about this one.  The amount of residential units barely decreased from Skyhouse, the parking spaces took a 150 space hit, which I'm more than happy with.  Surprised they even paid into the streetcar fund.

16 hours ago, tonyt3524 said:

Biz article.

 

Indianapolis-based developer Milhaus plans to build a $77 million, 344-unit apartment building near the Ohio River downtown, along with a 390-space garage, a project known as Artistry Cincinnati. “Artistry will offer the best of all aspects of Cincinnati urban living – close proximity to the city’s best employment center and entertainment districts, all while being in a quiet location along the beautiful Ohio River Trail” said Jake Dietrich, MIlhaus’ development director.

 

The mixed-use development at 601 Pete Rose Way also will have 8,000 square feet of commercial space.

Artistry’s amenities will include a rooftop pool and aqua lounge, two-story fitness center, yoga studio, maker’s space, co-working spaces inside and outdoors, a community garden, secure bike storage, a pet spa and wi-fi in common areas.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/06/20/developer-plans-75-million-apartment-project-along.html?iana=hpmvp_cinci_news_headline

The rendering in this article already looks much better than the initial image

It would be great to see this kick off a flats district along Pete Rose, Eggleston, and Culvert. Such an under-utilized part of downtown.

The city or park board (whoever is in charge of it) should develop the Sawyer Point parking lot next door to this on the east side of the purple people bridge. They could dedicate one or two floors to public parking for the park but then have parking for apartments and apartments above that. 

2 hours ago, thebillshark said:

The city or park board (whoever is in charge of it) should develop the Sawyer Point parking lot next door to this on the east side of the purple people bridge. They could dedicate one or

two floors to public parking for the park but then have parking for apartments and apartments above that. 

 

The Sawyer Family still owns Sawyer Point.  If the city violates the terms by which it is currently used as park space, the family has the right to take it back.  So the terms of the agreement might preclude something like that.  

I'm dumb because I always assumed it was named after Tom Sawyer, with it's riverside location and the miniature Ohio River model. I didn't know there was a Sawyer family...

1 hour ago, ucgrady said:

I'm dumb because I always assumed it was named after Tom Sawyer, with it's riverside location and the miniature Ohio River model. I didn't know there was a Sawyer family...

Nah not dumb at all, alot of people always assumed that with the park. Charles Sawyer, was the Secretary of Commerce under the Truman Administration, when he passed in 79 his kids leased the land to Cincinnati for the Bicentennial Park construction in the 80s. The Sawyer family owns alot of land around the tri-state still. 

I think they also had minority stakes in either the Reds or the Bengals or both back in the 1960s-80s.  

No, his Point is not for rent
To any God or government

There would be a lot of discontent if they made some non-park changes that were permanent 

On 6/21/2019 at 9:32 AM, thebillshark said:

The city or park board (whoever is in charge of it) should develop the Sawyer Point parking lot next door to this on the east side of the purple people bridge. They could dedicate one or two floors to public parking for the park but then have parking for apartments and apartments above that. 

 

There is certainly a lot of opportunity with those lots on the other side of PRW as well! Will this take up the entire lot from Butler to the building on the west end? I wonder how it will "face" the park? Also, could we see a resurrected Pike Street stub off PRW?

 

My initial reaction to this project was sour grapes for the lost opportunity of a building that could add to the skyline. But you all are right that this has a lot of positives.

12 minutes ago, Rabbit Hash said:

 

There is certainly a lot of opportunity with those lots on the other side of PRW as well! Will this take up the entire lot from Butler to the building on the west end? I wonder how it will "face" the park? Also, could we see a resurrected Pike Street stub off PRW?

 

My initial reaction to this project was sour grapes for the lost opportunity of a building that could add to the skyline. But you all are right that this has a lot of positives.

I still hope the Urban Design Review board holds Milhaus to use quality building materials and products and this doesnt become another EIFS and hardie board project. The design makes me cringe and the lack of site context drives me insane. No one could put in One Lytle Place to the right or actually grab photos of the river and park to put to the left? These are things that any college intern could easily do in photoshop for a rendering. 

While I agree this is underwhelming from a skyline altering perspective, 344 units is nothing to sneeze at. It's larger than any of the downtown apartment projects currently underway or built in the last five years, including the second phase of the Banks.

 

This is going to help the long rotating storefronts next door on Pete Rose Way, NOTL and some others. It's going to be a bit farther of a walk than desired for the rest of downtown and the Banks but I think residents here will figure it out that will help.

 

The worst we can have here is a residential development with no street level presence. Both One River Plaza and Sky House did little to address and activate the street frontage. This one makes a better attempt to.