I came into work this morning & saw a crew taking down the Blind Pig awning & canopy...  hauling out equipment from the bar... 

Population discussions were moved to:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,25694.0.html

 

Carry on!

I wished I had saved a parcel map view of the Warehouse District from the last 10 or 20 years or so to compare with today, but something interesting has happened.... The parcels where the various parking lots are located were large, consolidated parcels. The most obvious one is the parking lot on Public Square owned by the Jacobs Group which has gone from one large parcel to 11 (all still owned by Jacobs). It's not the only one. Others along St. Clair including the Superblock over to Superior are subdivided into more parcels, although I don't remember exactly how the parcel were divided previously. There also are some extra parcels in the Tower City complex, such as the one below Prospect. The question of the week is, why was this done?

 

The "Cleveland needs a nightlife strip/Baltimore/Other off-topic drivel" posts have been moved to the following: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,28993.0.html

 

Thanks folks - I can't think of a better way to spend an early Tuesday morning than cleaning up posts that are *clearly* off-topic. Any posts that take this thread off topic will get the perp some time off - we allow a little wiggle room but it isn't rocket science.

 

Scene has a piece on the Dalad Group and the Worthington project. Also a link to photos of Johnson Ct. which looks like newly found  Aztec ruins. They did receive the 5mil. historic tax credit recently. Does anyone know if this is a go? I don't see any timetable. 

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/01/15/warehouse-district-development-will-open-up-secret-courtyard-of-mystery

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pkncleveland/

 

 

I noticed yesterday that crews appear to be removing the hideous, cheap-looking facade from the Stark Enterprises building at the southwest corner of West 3rd and St. Clair!  I saw a picture a long time ago of that corner, and the building under the facade is a handsome red-brick structure.  Hopefully a facade restoration is in order!  I'll post a historical picture of that building if I can find one.

 

I noticed yesterday that crews appear to be removing the hideous, cheap-looking facade from the Stark Enterprises building at the southwest corner of West 3rd and St. Clair!  I saw a picture a long time ago of that corner, and the building under the facade is a handsome red-brick structure.  Hopefully a facade restoration is in order!  I'll post a historical picture of that building if I can find one.

 

Awesome! Keep us updated. I could never understand that hideous building standing alone in a giant parking lot. Hopefully something better is coming

Scene has a piece on the Dalad Group and the Worthington project. Also a link to photos of Johnson Ct. which looks like newly found  Aztec ruins. They did receive the 5mil. historic tax credit recently. Does anyone know if this is a go? I don't see any timetable. 

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/01/15/warehouse-district-development-will-open-up-secret-courtyard-of-mystery

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pkncleveland/

 

 

 

Sounds like it is becoming more of a reality.  I'm excited about the potential for Johnson Ct. to become an E. 4th street type thoroughfare.

I noticed yesterday that crews appear to be removing the hideous, cheap-looking facade from the Stark Enterprises building at the southwest corner of West 3rd and St. Clair!  I saw a picture a long time ago of that corner, and the building under the facade is a handsome red-brick structure.  Hopefully a facade restoration is in order!  I'll post a historical picture of that building if I can find one.

 

I'm worried they're prepping it for another billboard.

I wished I had saved a parcel map view of the Warehouse District from the last 10 or 20 years or so to compare with today, but something interesting has happened.... The parcels where the various parking lots are located were large, consolidated parcels. The most obvious one is the parking lot on Public Square owned by the Jacobs Group which has gone from one large parcel to 11 (all still owned by Jacobs). It's not the only one. Others along St. Clair including the Superblock over to Superior are subdivided into more parcels, although I don't remember exactly how the parcel were divided previously. There also are some extra parcels in the Tower City complex, such as the one below Prospect. The question of the week is, why was this done?

 

Only one way to find out. :-P

 

[email protected]

 

Only one way to find out. :-P

 

[email protected]

 

 

That's not the only way. I'm asking via this forum if anyone knows while I wait for an upcoming, already scheduled meeting with CPC staff regarding other matters.

Scene has a piece on the Dalad Group and the Worthington project. Also a link to photos of Johnson Ct. which looks like newly found  Aztec ruins. They did receive the 5mil. historic tax credit recently. Does anyone know if this is a go? I don't see any timetable. 

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/01/15/warehouse-district-development-will-open-up-secret-courtyard-of-mystery

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pkncleveland/

I’m really glad to see Dalad won the tax credit… The Worthington project will be the largest and most important development in the WHD since Constantio’s Market opened going on a decade ago.  The adaptive reuse of such a huge building into luxury units will be great in itself and will add to a (hopefully) more mature attitude for the WHD – something more akin to the atmosphere along W. 9th as opposed W. 6th ‘s weekend craziness (I’m all for a fun district but, well, you know; we’ve discussed it upteen times…).  I would also enjoy a small restaurant/bar street akin to E. 4th for Johnson Ct even though it’s much narrower.  I often cut through there on foot just to avoid having to schlep all the way back to St. Clair then around… Right now, though, it’s a rather foreboding, crumbling alleyway. 

 

Historic National Terminal apartment complex soon will hit market

Maker of Kleenex lays plans to sell

 

The National Terminal Warehouse Apartments, a trailblazing, 250-suite complex that helped establish downtown Cleveland as an apartment market in the 1990s, is about to go up for sale.

 

Real estate insiders quietly have been looking at the complex for months. Brokerage firm Marcus & Millichap plans to start marketing the property for sale if the loft building's owner wins approval from Cleveland City Council to repay on an accelerated and discounted basis city loans that helped finance the old warehouse building's conversion to apartments in 1996.

 

More at: http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20140223/SUB1/302239989

National Terminal was in pretty terrible shape when I toured last month. Management doesn't seem to put much effort into basic things like a 24h front desk, decent gym equipment, way-finding, etc. The rental office was so cold that the staff was wearing their coats. And the whole building could use some pinterest-type love to brighten the dreary hallways & units.

Hopefully National Terminal will get new owners that will clean up the space.  I've always heard a certain percentage of it is Section 8.  Is that still true?  What percentage?

Hopefully National Terminal will get new owners that will clean up the space.  I've always heard a certain percentage of it is Section 8.  Is that still true?  What percentage?

Question?  What do you mean "clean up the space"?  Are suggesting that because a certain section of the residents/tenants are on Section 8, they are a drain on the property?

National Terminal was in pretty terrible shape when I toured last month. Management doesn't seem to put much effort into basic things like a 24h front desk, decent gym equipment, way-finding, etc. The rental office was so cold that the staff was wearing their coats. And the whole building could use some pinterest-type love to brighten the dreary hallways & units.

 

that's why the article noted that who ever buys it is going to have to make a serious investment in the property.  However, the article also suggests that the current owner is not taking that into consideration re: reasonable sale price.

Hopefully National Terminal will get new owners that will clean up the space.  I've always heard a certain percentage of it is Section 8.  Is that still true?  What percentage?

 

I've always heard that too, but never had any confirmation.  The Crain's article says that the Kimberly-Clark LLC that owns National Terminal is K-C's "affordable housing unit" and that the company is trying to get out of affordable housing, so maybe it is true.

Hopefully National Terminal will get new owners that will clean up the space.  I've always heard a certain percentage of it is Section 8.  Is that still true?  What percentage?

 

I've always heard that too, but never had any confirmation.  The Crain's article says that the Kimberly-Clark LLC that owns National Terminal is K-C's "affordable housing unit" and that the company is trying to get out of affordable housing, so maybe it is true.

 

IIRC, in order to get loans for reconstruction and other financing, the owners need to set aside a certain percentage of units for those of varying income.

If I recall correctly, in order to get federal guarantees (or what ever) for financing when the original conversion was done, a number of units had to be (maybe 10%) below market, although I don't know if they fell technically within the Section 8 program (does the federal government even refer to that program as such any more?).  The rest of the units were supposedly market.

The National Terminal conversion/rehab was a Low Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC) deal.  Based on a quick look at the restrictive covenants recorded against the property, 43 percent of units (106 of the 240) have had to be affordable at 60% of AMI since 1998, but it was a 15 year term (with no extended use period), so I think the affordability requirement expired at the end of 2013. Which would explain the exact timing of this sales process.  Technically this was never a project-based Section 8 property, but there may have been housing choice voucher holders occupying some of the rent restricted units.

 

EDIT: normally units developed after 1990 have to stay affordable for 30 years, so I could be wrong that the restrictions burned off at the end of 2013, despite the language in the Ohio Housing Finance Agency restrictive covenants.

Hopefully National Terminal will get new owners that will clean up the space.  I've always heard a certain percentage of it is Section 8.  Is that still true?  What percentage?

Question?  What do you mean "clean up the space"?  Are suggesting that because a certain section of the residents/tenants are on Section 8, they are a drain on the property?

 

No, but thanks for reaching.  I was referring to the previous post by DougNagy where he said, "National Terminal was in pretty terrible shape when I toured last month. Management doesn't seem to put much effort into basic things like a 24h front desk, decent gym equipment, way-finding, etc. The rental office was so cold that the staff was wearing their coats. And the whole building could use some pinterest-type love to brighten the dreary hallways & units."

^LOL

Hopefully National Terminal will get new owners that will clean up the space.  I've always heard a certain percentage of it is Section 8.  Is that still true?  What percentage?

Question?  What do you mean "clean up the space"?  Are suggesting that because a certain section of the residents/tenants are on Section 8, they are a drain on the property?

 

No, but thanks for reaching.  I was referring to the previous post by DougNagy where he said, "National Terminal was in pretty terrible shape when I toured last month. Management doesn't seem to put much effort into basic things like a 24h front desk, decent gym equipment, way-finding, etc. The rental office was so cold that the staff was wearing their coats. And the whole building could use some pinterest-type love to brighten the dreary hallways & units."

 

I wasn't reaching I was asking a specific question.  When I don't know or understand, I ask a question to better understand the response I've quoted.

^

Loaded question - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A loaded question or complex question fallacy is a question which contains a controversial or unjustified assumption (e.g., a presumption of guilt).[1]

For all that is holy please let it be true, that albeit a small one there is a chance that one day the inJustice Center could face demolition.  Imagine returning that land to the warehouse district that it was once a part of. Solution, build a Geis type building for the courts which would replace the tower. Locate a new jail somewhere in Cleveland proper, maybe along the Opportunity Corridor...who knows. I know there is probably one chance in a million it is torn down...but what your saying is there is a chance.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga-county/index.ssf/2014/03/cleveland_cuyahoga_county_could_spend_300_million_or_more_to_upgrade_justice_center.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

 

bad cell phone pic but the former El Guero on w. 9th is now "Camino, Taco and Tequila Bar". (not open yet)

Differences inside appear to be wooden furniture and some long narrow communal tables (or looong pub tables)

 

 

 

 

 

 

I guess this means that the Cambridge wont lose its 70s shroud anytime soon, but, if its an electronic billboard, it shuold look good at night.

 

 

 

I posted this in the vintage photo thread but figured it would be good here too.  Found this photo online at the CSU digital humanities website.  Look at the density that existed in the warehouse district before all the demolition!  Also from this angle you can see the Renaissance prior to the construction of the ballroom.  If only these buildings still existed, what seamless connection would exists between the warehouse district and Public Square!  I've seen pre parking lot pics before, but never from this angle.

 

 

In this picture, what is the building just south of the Standard, west of the old Society building, and apparently where Old Stone is?  Also interesting to see the Great Lakes Exposition bridges and buildings across the railroad tracks, in the background. 

^That is 75 Public Square.  It is right next to and to the west of Old Stone Church.

^^Actually are you referring to the Engineers Building? which is north of the Society Building in that picture.  It was torn down for what is now the Marriott and Key tower.

Htsguy you've got a good eye.  I had the same question as cleB, but really looking at it that building is on the same block as the old Society building, but with just a glance it looks like it's where the Old Stone Church is.  Good catch. 

^^Actually are you referring to the Engineers Building? which is north of the Society Building in that picture.  It was torn down for what is now the Marriott and Key tower.

 

That's correct. It's the Engineers Building -- for the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers. When it opened, it was the largest office building ever built by and for a labor union.

Also interesting to see the Great Lakes Exposition bridges and buildings across the railroad tracks, in the background. 

 

Yes, it's interesting that in the 1930s we actually bridged, albeit temporarily, those tracks to create a continuous unbroken plaza from Lakeside Ave all the way out to the lake, in a manner that planners have been fantasizing in recent grand proposals -- it just shows that great ideas truly never die. 

 

I know we've hashed out over and over the frustration of being seemingly powerless to build anything on those WHD surface parking lots.  With all the other great development/restoration going on downtown, and in several other neighborhoods of the City these days, I just believe our leaders are not putting forth the effort to get something done.  I just can't believe these blood sucking leeches (aka, the parking lot barons) have this town paralyzed development-wise right at the heart of our otherwise thriving downtown.  It makes no sense -- Frank Jackson and Joe Cimperman, I'm looing at the 2 of you over and above the others...

 

I know we've hashed out over and over the frustration of being seemingly powerless to build anything on those WHD surface parking lots.  With all the other great development/restoration going on downtown, and in several other neighborhoods of the City these days, I just believe our leaders are not putting forth the effort to get something done.  I just can't believe these blood sucking leeches (aka, the parking lot barons) have this town paralyzed development-wise right at the heart of our otherwise thriving downtown.  It makes no sense -- Frank Jackson and Joe Cimperman, I'm looing at the 2 of you over and above the others...

 

 

Conversation about reconnecting downtown with the lakefront moved here:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,3638.msg703283.html#msg703283

 

Carry on. :)

I know we've hashed out over and over the frustration of being seemingly powerless to build anything on those WHD surface parking lots.  With all the other great development/restoration going on downtown, and in several other neighborhoods of the City these days, I just believe our leaders are not putting forth the effort to get something done.  I just can't believe these blood sucking leeches (aka, the parking lot barons) have this town paralyzed development-wise right at the heart of our otherwise thriving downtown.  It makes no sense -- Frank Jackson and Joe Cimperman, I'm looing at the 2 of you over and above the others...

 

You're assuming these 'parking lot barons' are standing in the way of these lots being developed.  Not true.  Their have been several unexercised development options on these lots over the past 10 or so years.  All the developer has to do is exercise the option. 

 

The biggest issue is the economics of new construction in Cleveland.

True. Most of the Warehouse District lots have been owned by Weston since the mid- to late-00s. They would love nothing more than to build this....

 

Not knowing the numbers overly well, is it just that new construction costs/sq. ft. are too high in comparison to what they can get in rent/per sq. ft.? if that's the case, is it close or is it so far off from being feasible that it's not likely to happen anytime soon? Because something of ^that scale would do absolute wonders in improving the Warehouse District. It has a nice streetwall, the side facing the Warehouse District appears to have great street level retail, the tower portion facing Public Square is appropriate for that spot, and overall brings a modern aesthetic to an area that demands it. If all those lots were filled with this type of development that area would definitely be one of the strongest continual areas of development.

Costs of new construction aren't necessarily too high. Rather, rents in Cleveland are too low to support new construction absent subsidies (see Flats East Bank). This is especially true on the Warehouse parking lots which command some of the highest parking rates downtown. So they generate high revenues and incur few operating costs (labor, maintenance, taxes, etc). There's no economic incentive to build on them. There may be a civic one, but that doesn't always make shareholders happy.

 

Once most of the big, obsolete, under-occupied commercial buildings downtown are converted to residential and fill up, then we'll start to see supply constraints. That will cause rents to rise above $2 per square feet and create an economic incentive to build stuff on the Warehouse District parking lots.

 

EDIT: a refresher.....

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20131201/SUB1/312019996/building-may-be-next-big-development

 

^Hopefully those continued conversion and the success of FEB will encourage a 2nd look at this development in a few years.  Looks like a great mixed use project.  Is this also where the RTA proposed the westside transit center, or is that one block to the east.

Same block, but friends at GCRTA say the Westside Transit Center has returned to the backburner.

I thought that rendering/block was stark enterprises not Weston

 

Not knowing the numbers overly well, is it just that new construction costs/sq. ft. are too high in comparison to what they can get in rent/per sq. ft.? if that's the case, is it close or is it so far off from being feasible that it's not likely to happen anytime soon? Because something of ^that scale would do absolute wonders in improving the Warehouse District. It has a nice streetwall, the side facing the Warehouse District appears to have great street level retail, the tower portion facing Public Square is appropriate for that spot, and overall brings a modern aesthetic to an area that demands it. If all those lots were filled with this type of development that area would definitely be one of the strongest continual areas of development.

 

Just another reason why I can't believe mixed-use wasn't explored for the convention center hotel.  15 stories of condos on top of it would have been "propped up" by subsidies!

I thought that rendering/block was stark enterprises not Weston

 

Stark had the Y Pescht one, similar to the one above, that KJP leaked years ago.

I thought that rendering/block was stark enterprises not Weston

 

Stark had the Y Pescht one, similar to the one above, that KJP leaked years ago.

 

 

Weston and Stark were partners in Pesht until Weston "took it over" from them. Still, Weston bought up significant portions of the Warehouse District while Stark bought only the building at 1310 West 3rd.

 

Back to the Future...

So glad that some of the space on ths block is reverting back to art gallery.

For those who've been around this was formerly the Griffon Gallery, and for those who really been around will remember that Brenda Kroos was just down the street at the end of the block

 

"Akron's Harris Stanton Gallery has unveiled plans to open a second location in Cleveland's Warehouse District this summer."

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/05/06/akron-based-harris-stanton-art-gallery-to-open-second-location-in-clevelands-warehouse-district

Sorry, I was trying to say that there are now signs up in the window of the former Sushi Rock saying Coming Soon: A New Ale House. I tried to attach a picture but my stupid iPhone is on it's last legs and the picture shows white when I try and attach. I'll try again on my walk home tonight. Gottaplan had said that's what was going to go in there months ago.