December 31, 20186 yr On 12/28/2018 at 10:51 AM, YABO713 said: Call me crazy, but I think sitting and waiting for a coporate HQ in the Parking Lot District is a losing strategy. I would love to see Weston develop those lots into something like brownstones - ranging from $400k-$600k... you could have one row of home facing W. 3rd, splice the parking lot into two, and continue W. 4th through the parking lots. This would have a set of brownstones facing W. 3rd, with an alleyway-garage path behind, and another facing W. 4th. On the other portion of the parking lot, you could do the same, with one set facing W. 6th, and the other facing W. 4th. Having equity in residences in this area is, imo, equally as important as corporate tenants for the area's sustainability. Safety concerns could be limited with the formation of an HOA and a 24/7 security staff. Maybe I'm crazy, but most cities have residences in their downtown. This isn’t a terrible idea. I was thinking more along the lines of roughly 4-6 story buildings like the other buildings. I don’t really think it’s necessary for large buildings that are 25-40 stories. Something similar to the quarter project would be a great fit for most of the parking lots. Brownstones could be really cool too. I work on W 6th and live on Euclid at E 6th. I go out to the warehouse district almost every weekend. It’s kind of soul crushing to walk through all those lots. I’m sure any townhouse development in the warehouse district would be very high end and call for prices in the high 6 figures if not even 1+ mil. I think that brownstones on the lots on facing W 9th would be really great. But the ones on w W 6th closer to public square would be better for mixed-use developments with street level retail/restaurant space?!
December 31, 20186 yr Being it's a total blank slate right there I envision W 3rd as the dividing line. Front W 3rd and Superior corridors with larger structures but then rapidly scale down to the 4-6 range, transitioning into the warehouse district. W 3rd and E 9th are our two corridors to the lake and should be treated as such. Brownstones could work in the interior of the super block but definitely need to break it up with a few streets.
December 31, 20186 yr Bullard in Crain's says The Standard has leased only 157 of 285 apartments (55%) after a year of marketing. Is it too soon to call this conversion a failure? Previous data (last summer?) said the 2-bedroom units were moving well; the 1-bedroom units were not. The Standard Building drag could be one reason for Weston's go-slow approach to new construction. Vacancy numbers are in the caption to the Standard Building photo: https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/big-wins-losses-hit-regions-realty-market Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
December 31, 20186 yr 2 hours ago, Dougal said: Bullard in Crain's says The Standard has leased only 157 of 285 apartments (55%) after a year of marketing. Is it too soon to call this conversion a failure? Previous data (last summer?) said the 2-bedroom units were moving well; the 1-bedroom units were not. The Standard Building drag could be one reason for Weston's go-slow approach to new construction. Vacancy numbers are in the caption to the Standard Building photo: https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/big-wins-losses-hit-regions-realty-market I almost signed a lease at the Standard for a 2 bedroom, until I saw the Halle Buildings rooms and rates. So I'll be a Halle resident in February. Standards views are phenomenal and the apartments are first rate. But the location is not great and their parking situation sucks. Still, I'm shocked they havent leased more.
January 1, 20196 yr 20 hours ago, mack34 said: I almost signed a lease at the Standard for a 2 bedroom, until I saw the Halle Buildings rooms and rates. So I'll be a Halle resident in February. Standards views are phenomenal and the apartments are first rate. But the location is not great and their parking situation sucks. Still, I'm shocked they havent leased more. I think you chose well! I don't think i would enjoy the view of the Justice center across the street. Playhouse Square is a much better location.
January 1, 20196 yr Agree, there really isn't much in the immediate area expect for Hotel restaurants,bars. Nothing like living along lower Euclid and playhouse. It would be wise for the involved parties (Standard, Illuminating buildings) to try to activate W 2nd.
January 1, 20196 yr 3 hours ago, shack said: I think you chose well! I don't think i would enjoy the view of the Justice center across the street. Playhouse Square is a much better location. I think everyone agrees the Justice Center is just poison to its immediate surroundings.
January 1, 20196 yr There isn't a lot "right" there, but you're less than a 5 minute walk to the Warehouse District, East 4th/lower Euclid and Prospect, or Tower City. It's pretty well located, Justice Center excepted. I do love the idea of activating W. 2nd though. 75 Public Square and the Standard both have storefronts on W. 2nd, and maybe the buildings on the other side of the street could with some limited alterations. Cleveland needs to make better use of it's small streets in general- E. 6th, Barn Court, W. 4th, Johnson Court, and others could all be cool "alley" retail streets.
January 1, 20196 yr Agreed, but when compared to any of the new offerings on Euclid, Standards location really isolates it. Plus its first floor is empty, no coffee shop, convenient store, nothing. The apartment market is getting very competitive right now with almost 1000 units under construction or renovation. I've looked at almost all the new ones...Standards rooms are great and offer awesome amenities, but the parking is expensive and you have to park in surface lots in warehouse district.
January 2, 20196 yr I concur, this is posied to be a great reaidential location. I was speculating on the reason for the lower rental rates at the Standard. The immediate area just doesn't have the "it" factor yet...
January 4, 20196 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 4, 20196 yr More.... Israeli developer buys Stark Enterprises headquarters https://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/news/local_news/israeli-developer-buys-stark-enterprises-headquarters/article_14409398-0fa3-11e9-9c59-5775e40bebdd.html For some reason I was expecting an old man with white hair and beard.... https://www.linkedin.com/in/yaron-kandelker-a2820999?originalSubdomain=il Edited January 4, 20196 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 4, 20196 yr This doesn't make me feel good. Without going into details, my dealings with his associates regarding the other properties he owns around here has been negative.
January 5, 20196 yr I wonder if this guy is one of those Israeli "investors" who buy multiple marginally flipped houses in primarily blue collar inner suburbs and then rents them out. In other words your classic absentee landlord except instead of just living in a wealthy far off suburb he is really far off...like about 6,000 miles. I get that impression from the article.
February 7, 20196 yr Anyone notice Brasa has a new sign? Cello’s Grill? Pretty sure it’s another Brazilian steakhouse though.
February 8, 20196 yr Looks like they have a website up, looks like it will be a Brazilian steakhouse. https://cellosgrill.com/
March 17, 20196 yr Is Liquid reopening as “Ivy” for St. Patrick’s Day an indication of what’s coming for that space, or not really? We popped in for a second just to see the current state of the interior, and it looks pretty nice, like they have actually been working on it (even though the lights have been on and there’s the occasional demo’d spiral stairway on the patio, we haven’t been sure).
March 19, 20196 yr ^I’m glad that the space finally opened. It opened sooner than I thought it would. It and Rumors refresh are really nice. W. 6th needs some TLC. Velvet dog is so run down. I feel like W. 6th is going to start losing out on being the night life spot as other options keep popping up and it gets more run down. Edited March 19, 20196 yr by imjustinjk
March 19, 20196 yr Liquid is not open again. They just opened it for St. Patrick's Day. So people basically got wasted inside a construction site. Not sure how that's legal but ok. Liquid was supposed to open last August. It has been slow going. I sense that money is running dry. W. 6th has been losing out on night life for years. It's basically a dump as far as night life goes. Unless it is Friday/Saturday night, the street is a ghost town, despite the neighborhood being home to I think Downtown's largest residential population. The street doesn't serve the residents. It will either change (residents / city are trying desperately on this front) or it will remain a beautiful quiet neighborhood by day and a dump by night.
March 19, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, NYC Boomerang said: Liquid is not open again. They just opened it for St. Patrick's Day. So people basically got wasted inside a construction site. Not sure how that's legal but ok. Liquid was supposed to open last August. It has been slow going. I sense that money is running dry. W. 6th has been losing out on night life for years. It's basically a dump as far as night life goes. Unless it is Friday/Saturday night, the street is a ghost town, despite the neighborhood being home to I think Downtown's largest residential population. The street doesn't serve the residents. It will either change (residents / city are trying desperately on this front) or it will remain a beautiful quiet neighborhood by day and a dump by night. They probably applied for a one day catering license. It allows you to serve liquor.
March 20, 20196 yr 18 minutes ago, stpats44113 said: They probably applied for a one day catering license. It allows you to serve liquor. I walked by there at during lunch yesterday. You can see a bar and some tables & chairs set up inside, but it also looks like they're in "mid-construction". Hopefully they can get things figured out / finished up and re-open. But it's not looking all that promising with it being over 6 mos past their re-opening!!!
March 21, 20196 yr Maybe "The Ivy" is closer to opening than we think!!! Following Months of Renovation, The Ivy Readies to Open in Former Liquid Space in Warehouse District Liquid, a mainstay of the Warehouse District nightlife scene for 24 years, closed its doors for good last June. Following months of construction and renovation, that venue’s replacement will open on or around April 19, according to management. When it does open, The Ivy (1212 W. Sixth St.) will usher in a new option for dining, entertainment and nightlife for West Sixth Street. https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2019/03/20/following-months-of-renovation-the-ivy-readies-to-open-in-former-liquid-space-in-warehouse-district Edited March 21, 20196 yr by dar124
March 21, 20196 yr I'm really hoping someone can step up and replace the much missed electronic bull that went with Tequila Ranch. My day drinking days are less fun without it.
March 21, 20196 yr By utilizing different lighting, sound, music and menus, the Ivy will evolve from casual happy hour meetup to stylish dinner-date venue to riotous dance party place. This trying to be all things sounds like a recipe for failure.
March 21, 20196 yr 41 minutes ago, surfohio said: By utilizing different lighting, sound, music and menus, the Ivy will evolve from casual happy hour meetup to stylish dinner-date venue to riotous dance party place. This trying to be all things sounds like a recipe for failure. I can sort of understand that they felt they were missing out on more of a dinner crowd. I know they had food and happy hour specials, etc there before, but I only went there Fri / Sat nights late for drinks and maybe a couple of times on a Sunday morning before a Browns game. I would have never thought of going to Liquid for dinner. So maybe this will bring more business in for them?? Although I'm sure being closed for the past 6+ mos hasn't helped things money wise!!!
March 22, 20196 yr Development threads are for news and discussion of proposed or underway development, not noise complaints or complaints about Cleveland's nightlife scene.
April 5, 20196 yr I was out yesterday at lunch and saw this sign on the window. Looks like the opening for "The Ivy" is set for April 25th!!! It looked like there was some kind of work going on inside. There were a few people coming and going as I was walking by the building.
April 30, 20196 yr Cross-posted from the nuCLEus thread with some modifications to make it more specific to this thread..... 14 minutes ago, JohnSummit said: I don't recall ever seeing any kind of thoughtful post mortem on the Weston development in these pages. I assume they couldn't assemble financing, but would like to know more particulars. It was such a big splashy proposal right on the heels of the Nucleus announcement IIRC, but then we never heard much about it again, unlike Nucleus which stayed in the headlines over the years with all the various funding / subsidy proposals. I was informed that the Weston project is officially dead. Weston was still trying to develop the Superblock until at least last year with the Amazon HQ2 project. But Weston isn't flashy/chatty like Stark. Weston works behind the scenes. Some people prefer Weston's approach. Others prefer Stark's. I enjoy both. So even a couple of years after Weston/Citymark announced their Superblock development, they were still picking up a missing parcel here or there to have site control over the whole block. The exception, of course, was Stark's HQ, where he moved to from the suburbs 12 years ago after he announced his Superblock project (ironically, Stark is the only one to activate a building on the Superblock this century). So even though Weston/Citymark wasn't making big announcements, it was active. And then it stopped being active last year (FYI: below is the last property acquisition made by Weston). I learned only last week that Weston's Superblock project was officially dead. On 9/6/2016 at 6:07 PM, KJP said: On Aug. 22, Weston (dba 411 St. Clair LLC) acquired another property in the Superblock for its planned multi-tower development. The acquired property's address is the same as the company's name, 411 St Clair. This is the same naming Weston used in late-May to make a paper transfer of the next property east, 405 St. Clair, which Weston already owned. There are a couple of notable differences with 411 St. Clair. It was owned by a non-Weston company -- Public Square West Limited Partnership -- a company created in 1988 by the Jacobs Group to acquire land for the Ameritrust Tower and, in the Superblock, for a big parking garage for the Ameritrust tower. Weston acquired it for a princely sum of $1.345 million (the parcel measures only 6,482 square feet or 0.15 of 1 acre). Also, this property is the next-closest to the NW corner of the Superblock where Weston planned to construct phase 1 of multi-tower development. So it appears that Weston now has site control of the Superblock (except for the Stark parcel that's up for auction). The Superblock is bounded by Superior, West 3rd, West 6th and St. Clair. CLEVELAND Sales Date 8/22/2016 Amount $1,345,000 Buyer 411 ST. CLAIR, LLC Seller PUBLIC SQUARE WEST LIMITED Deed type WARRANTY D Land value $600,900 Building value $7,000 Total value $607,900 Parcel 101-10-059 Property Commercial parking lot "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 30, 20196 yr KJP -- do you have a map of all the property Weston has acquired in that area? What do you think he has planned -- scaling back the number of parcels to redevelop initially, or just holding onto the property indefinitely a la Jacobs's Public Square lot?
April 30, 20196 yr 27 minutes ago, Foraker said: KJP -- do you have a map of all the property Weston has acquired in that area? What do you think he has planned -- scaling back the number of parcels to redevelop initially, or just holding onto the property indefinitely a la Jacobs's Public Square lot? I don't know if Weston has anything planned right now. But there are two big projects on the horizon that this massive site can attract -- the new Justice Center and/or consolidated jail facility and/or some/all of the Sherwin Williams HQ/parking deck/research facility. Here are the properties that Weston has. Basically everything except Stark's HQ.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 30, 20196 yr Because it's extremely expensive property. As far as I know, the only way it can bring in more money than parking is to build a large building on top of it. Stark never ahead site control here. He had letters of intent and some agreements in place with the existing WHD property owners. When Stark's project was ended by the 2008 procession, he looked elsewhere for his big downtown projects. I don't know if Weston was all the way in on this site like Stark was all the way in on Beacon and nuCLEus. Perhaps the Superblock should be tackled in bits and pieces. Although I suspect Weston wants to see what happens with Sherwin Williams and the new Justice Center first. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 1, 20196 yr 12 hours ago, KJP said: Although I suspect Weston wants to see what happens with Sherwin Williams and the new Justice Center first. Call me crazy, but this project seems to be a perfect fit for a possible public/private deal to replace the Justice Center much like the County HQ deal. Build the Justice Center on Superior, and supporting office, residential and retail buildings on the lots on the St Clair side.....
May 1, 20196 yr 4 hours ago, Cleburger said: Call me crazy, but this project seems to be a perfect fit for a possible public/private deal to replace the Justice Center much like the County HQ deal. Build the Justice Center on Superior, and supporting office, residential and retail buildings on the lots on the St Clair side..... Not sure county/city leadership would be up for moving the complex from "valuable downtown real estate", at an astronomical cost, to even higher valued downtown real estate. Doesn't seem to be in line with the thesis of opening up more valuable downtown real estate for higher value development. The justice center along with the jail creates a nuisance factor downtown and does not belong IMO in the center of an increasingly residential and touristed downtown. I think it should be moved to the fringes of downtown or to a more easily accessible location within the city. Perhaps a site near the industrial valley and freeway interchanges.
May 1, 20196 yr 16 hours ago, KJP said: Because it's extremely expensive property. As far as I know, the only way it can bring in more money than parking is to build a large building on top of it. Stark never ahead site control here. He had letters of intent and some agreements in place with the existing WHD property owners. When Stark's project was ended by the 2008 procession, he looked elsewhere for his big downtown projects. I don't know if Weston was all the way in on this site like Stark was all the way in on Beacon and nuCLEus. Perhaps the Superblock should be tackled in bits and pieces. Although I suspect Weston wants to see what happens with Sherwin Williams and the new Justice Center first. Cleveland's parking curse strikes again. Tax policy needs to be changed. The Spaghetti House (an historic landmark) is the latest victim. Buildings being neglected for the primary purpose of demolition to make way for parking. Archaic tax policy is really holding back this city IMO.
May 1, 20196 yr 1 minute ago, NYC Boomerang said: Cleveland's parking curse strikes again. Tax policy needs to be changed. The Spaghetti House (an historic landmark) is the latest victim. Buildings being neglected for the primary purpose of demolition to make way for parking. Archaic tax policy is really holding back this city IMO. Most recent rumors is that Geis is planning a condo building on the spaghetti house property. I believe it was discussed on the forum over the weekend in the Gateway thread.
May 1, 20196 yr 5 minutes ago, Htsguy said: Most recent rumors is that Geis is planning a condo building on the spaghetti house property. I believe it was discussed on the forum over the weekend in the Gateway thread. That's the "rumor" and what developers put out so that the public accepts their plan to demolish an historic landmark and put in parking. If they want to put a condo building on the property, they should put a condo building on the property! They are tearing it down to lower the assessed value of the property for tax purposes and to allow for the cash cow of parking revenue to flow in. What's the over/under on how many years that lot sits there as parking? I'll throw out 10. Any other guesses?
May 1, 20196 yr 33 minutes ago, NYC Boomerang said: That's the "rumor" and what developers put out so that the public accepts their plan to demolish an historic landmark and put in parking. If they want to put a condo building on the property, they should put a condo building on the property! They are tearing it down to lower the assessed value of the property for tax purposes and to allow for the cash cow of parking revenue to flow in. What's the over/under on how many years that lot sits there as parking? I'll throw out 10. Any other guesses? According to KJP the city put a 5 year limit for parking when he first purchased and this runs out next year. He also indicated that Geis paid so much for such a small parcel it does not make economic sense to maintain it as parking. I will add my two cents. Geis tends to be a developer who gets things done and actually relatively quickly when compared to other developers. He has a pretty good track record (and this coming from a guy who can be very cynical when it comes many developers in town).
May 1, 20196 yr 54 minutes ago, Htsguy said: According to KJP the city put a 5 year limit for parking when he first purchased and this runs out next year. He also indicated that Geis paid so much for such a small parcel it does not make economic sense to maintain it as parking. I will add my two cents. Geis tends to be a developer who gets things done and actually relatively quickly when compared to other developers. He has a pretty good track record (and this coming from a guy who can be very cynical when it comes many developers in town). I hope you're right. Time will tell.
May 1, 20196 yr On 4/5/2019 at 12:49 PM, dar124 said: I was out yesterday at lunch and saw this sign on the window. Looks like the opening for "The Ivy" is set for April 25th!!! It looked like there was some kind of work going on inside. There were a few people coming and going as I was walking by the building. I was at the ivy Thursday and Saturday. I really like the space a lot more than Liquid. The night club feeling is pretty decent. The layout is a lot better. I like the two bars on either side. It was kind of cramped before. Drinks were a good price too, 8$ for a Ketel on the rocks. Hopefully W. 6th can get revitalized a bit with more Renos and new places.
May 2, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, imjustinjk said: I was at the ivy Thursday and Saturday. I really like the space a lot more than Liquid. The night club feeling is pretty decent. The layout is a lot better. I like the two bars on either side. It was kind of cramped before. Drinks were a good price too, 8$ for a Ketel on the rocks. Hopefully W. 6th can get revitalized a bit with more Renos and new places. Not a bad sign in the window, but the Miller Light logos in the corner sure don't add a sense of sophistication! lol
May 2, 20196 yr 12 hours ago, jeremyck01 said: Not a bad sign in the window, but the Miller Light logos in the corner sure don't add a sense of sophistication! lol They seem to be sponsoring Ketel's new botanical line to go with the Ivy think. There's a cool wall piece with greenery and Ketel on it on the inside. So they're a little classy.
May 2, 20196 yr On 5/1/2019 at 10:35 AM, NYC Boomerang said: That's the "rumor" and what developers put out so that the public accepts their plan to demolish an historic landmark and put in parking. If they want to put a condo building on the property, they should put a condo building on the property! They are tearing it down to lower the assessed value of the property for tax purposes and to allow for the cash cow of parking revenue to flow in. What's the over/under on how many years that lot sits there as parking? I'll throw out 10. Any other guesses? A lot less than 10. And that's not a guess.
May 2, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, Mov2Ohio said: A lot less than 10. And that's not a guess. And I know he's biting his tongue so hard, it's probably now in two pieces. ? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 2, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, Mov2Ohio said: A lot less than 10. And that's not a guess. May we be so lucky that Geis buys the Jacobs and Weston lots as well.
May 2, 20196 yr On 5/1/2019 at 10:16 AM, NYC Boomerang said: Not sure county/city leadership would be up for moving the complex from "valuable downtown real estate", at an astronomical cost, to even higher valued downtown real estate. Doesn't seem to be in line with the thesis of opening up more valuable downtown real estate for higher value development. The justice center along with the jail creates a nuisance factor downtown and does not belong IMO in the center of an increasingly residential and touristed downtown. I think it should be moved to the fringes of downtown or to a more easily accessible location within the city. Perhaps a site near the industrial valley and freeway interchanges. What city doesn't have it's courts in the center of town? The problem with replacing it will be keeping it close to attorney's offices, as well as convenient to public transit. Unfortunately many users of the court system (whether they like it or not), do not have cars.
May 4, 20196 yr Think about this... Why is Stark in such a hurry to get out of its current headquarters, move to temporary offices, and then move again to nuCLEus? Is something else afoot here? I heard that a Dream Hotel was looking at St. Clair Avenue in the Warehouse District, but that was from only one source and it was months ago with nothing else since... http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2018/09/smaller-nucleus-may-come-from-dream.html?m=1 The following is from NKF's 2019 first quarter office market report.... The end of fourth-quarter 2018 also saw the sale of 1350 West 3rd street. This transaction was significant because the building is the current headquarters of Stark Enterprises, of the aforementioned nuCLEus project. The 18,290-square-foot building transferred to 1350 W6 LLC, an affiliate of Realife Real Estate Group, for a reported $2.65 million, or $145/SF. The sparse details surrounding the transaction raised eyebrows, as did the strategic location of the building among a "sea" of parking lots. Time will tell how this transfer will impact the CBD landscape, especially in light of Stark's nuCLEus project gaining traction. In the meantime, Stark just signed a 28,000-square-foot sublease at 629 Euclid Avenue and is expected to occupy the space later this year. SOURCE: http://www.ngkf.com/Uploads/FileManager/1Q19-Cleveland-Office-Market.pdf Edited May 4, 20196 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 4, 20196 yr ^That's some good stuff. $145/SF means somebody wants to make that money back, soon. And in the meantime It has been awful quiet on the new police/courts headquarters search. Do you think that might be the future of those parking lots?
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