September 29, 20159 yr I was surfing around the internet today, and stumbled upon an article detailing plans that Bob Stark had for replacing the numerous parking lots in the WHD with mixed-development buildings. The article was from 2008 and I haven't heard or seen anything more on it, so I know its a dead project, but does anyone know what actually happened to this project? It looked absolutely incredible from the plans. There was also a massive list of potential big-name tenants (even apple). Could this be the direction that nucleus could head? Construction on that was already supposed to have begun by now... Here's a link to the article: http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/05/stark_unveils_new_vision_for_w_1.html
September 29, 20159 yr I was surfing around the internet today, and stumbled upon an article detailing plans that Bob Stark had for replacing the numerous parking lots in the WHD with mixed-development buildings. The article was from 2008 and I haven't heard or seen anything more on it, so I know its a dead project, but does anyone know what actually happened to this project? It looked absolutely incredible from the plans. There was also a massive list of potential big-name tenants (even apple). Could this be the direction that nucleus could head? Construction on that was already supposed to have begun by now... Here's a link to the article: http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/05/stark_unveils_new_vision_for_w_1.html Economy collapsed
September 29, 20159 yr ^Wow I got a big chuckle from your post "young man". Look up "pescht" (am I spelling that right) on this board. It was discussed for years here and I believe you will find all we had to say very entertaining.
September 29, 20159 yr This project has been long abandoned. The Market crash in 2008 officially killed it. However it was long DOA before that. Go to completed projects. There you will find a link for Abandoned projects. Go to page 2 and you will find 56 pages Of Bob Stark's Pesht Development.
September 30, 20159 yr I posted this article.... http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20150928/BLOGS14/150929836/old-technique-for-selling-property-figures-in-sales-of-two-landmark ...In the 925 Euclid/Huntington Building thread because it is clearly the larger of the two properties involved in the real estate transactions. Probably.... I didn't even look at who bought the Hilliard Building on West 9th -- until now. The company is 1415 Hilliard LLC. It lists no other way trace who they are except their attorney: Gary L. Lieberman, Esq. This man is a co-managing partner in the real estate investment firm of K.R.I. Capital Partners: http://kricapital.com/experience.shtml The other co-managing partner is Kenneth Gee. What's his specialty? Multi-family real estate projects in small and middle markets. What surrounds 1415 Hilliard? Bob Stark's sea of parking lots he recently bought from that Los Angeles investment company. However I find no apparent links between Gee, Lieberman or Stark. Don't know what it means. Just thought it was interesting. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 30, 20159 yr Aren't Stark's lots at Prospect and East 4th Street? This building is in the Warehouse District. Or am i misreading something?
September 30, 20159 yr ^If I recall correctly some Warehouse District lots were also part of the deal with the California investment company as well as the lots and building in the Gateway District
September 30, 20159 yr He bought two swaths of downtown parking lots last year from the same company. One is at Prospect and East 4th. The other is at West 9th and St. Clair. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 30, 20159 yr I posted this article.... http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20150928/BLOGS14/150929836/old-technique-for-selling-property-figures-in-sales-of-two-landmark ...In the 925 Euclid/Huntington Building thread because it is clearly the larger of the two properties involved in the real estate transactions. Probably.... I didn't even look at who bought the Hilliard Building on West 9th -- until now. The company is 1415 Hilliard LLC. It lists no other way trace who they are except their attorney: Gary L. Lieberman, Esq. This man is a co-managing partner in the real estate investment firm of K.R.I. Capital Partners: http://kricapital.com/experience.shtml The other co-managing partner is Kenneth Gee. What's his specialty? Multi-family real estate projects in small and middle markets. What surrounds 1415 Hilliard? Bob Stark's sea of parking lots he recently bought from that Los Angeles investment company. However I find no apparent links between Gee, Lieberman or Stark. Don't know what it means. Just thought it was interesting. A dental office (I think Aura Smile?) just opened on the ground floor of the Hilliard Building a couple weeks ago. I had no idea it was one of the oldest downtown buildings.
September 30, 20159 yr Why did I not know that Stark bought those lots too? That is actually very interesting.
September 30, 20159 yr About a month ago, maybe two, a fairly credible source told me he's working on something for a downtown project in the WHD that the developer hopes to get out of the ground by years end. He said he had to be very hush, hush. He said it was the developers wishes to remain quiet on it. I even took stabs at who that developer may be, and he remained tight lipped. He did say its a developer that has done very little downtown that's trying to get going on downtown projects. He said I do know the developer as he is well known and reputable. I didn't mention it on here, because as you can see, I have no information, LOL. My only guess that I thought made sense was the parking garage that Michelle mentioned a few months back with some associated ground level retail. Sorry for being so vague, but just repeating what I heard.
September 30, 20159 yr ^I would imagine that anything that is going to be started before the end of the year would already have been before the Planning Commission or on the near agenda so we would pretty much already know what this allegded project is, especially the way KJP keeps us up to date with its agenda. A project may be the works but I can"t imagine it would break ground in the next three months.
September 30, 20159 yr Timeline aside, who are the likely candidates? Stark and Weston own a bunch of lots here. I bet Stark has his hands full with Crocker and the coming Gateway projects. I remember Millenia was looking to move their headquarters downtown. At the time they said they were looking to own not lease.
September 30, 20159 yr ^I would imagine that anything that is going to be started before the end of the year would already have been before the Planning Commission or on the near agenda so we would pretty much already know what this allegded project is, especially the way KJP keeps us up to date with its agenda. A project may be the works but I can"t imagine it would break ground in the next three months. That was my thought too. But this guy seemed really adamant about it. And he is a reliable source.
September 30, 20159 yr Weston owns more land (mostly parking lots) in the WHD than Stark does. But the recent transaction involving the Hilliard Building (and that it's surrounded by Stark properties, and that the buyer of the Hilliard Building is an investor who focuses on multifamily development) is interesting. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 30, 20159 yr Weston owns more land (mostly parking lots) in the WHD than Stark does. But the recent transaction involving the Hilliard Building (and that it's surrounded by Stark properties, and that the buyer of the Hilliard Building is an investor who focuses on multifamily development) is interesting. Agreed. I think there is more going on here than we know...
September 30, 20159 yr Stark needs cash flow. Here's my goofy prediction: I think he'll partner with these guys from KRI Capital to build some multi-family on Stark's lots in the WHD. Stark will turn around and use the revenues from that to finance nuCLEus and 515 Euclid. The fact that Welty moved out of 515 Euclid and took the furniture store with them screams to me that the concept of putting an apartment tower atop 515 Euclid has a real pulse. Perhaps imminent. BTW, here's the article on Stark buying the parking lots -- including the one in the Warehouse District: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/09/downtown_cleveland_parking_por.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 7, 20159 yr As of its recording Sept. 30, we have another real estate transaction in the WHD -- at least two parcels that were formerly one of Weston's parking lots owned under the name of "West Sixth Superior LLC" was acquired by a company formed Sept. 22 called "550 Superior LLC." The two parcels are 508 Superior (101-10-014) and 550 Superior (101-10-013). Ironically, several other parcels along Superior between West 3rd and West 6th that had data previously available from the Cuyahoga County Fiscal Officer now are no longer available. These are parcels 101-10-007, -008, -009, -010 and -015. However another parcel (101-10-012) right in the middle of the block on Superior is still as owned by a Weston affiliate. There are no dollar amounts for the sale, which means it's probably a quit-claim or another one of these seller-financed deals. So who is 550 Superior LLC? I have no idea. But... The attorney to whom this corporation is listed is a big wheel: Paul Singerman. The relevant part of his bio... Mr. Singerman also represents residential and commercial developers in connection with all aspects of their real estate acquisitions and development. In his real estate practice, Mr. Singerman counsels developers and acquirers of low-income housing projects, assisting such clients with all aspects of their transactions, including low-income housing tax credit syndications, tax-exempt and taxable bond financing and HUD/FHA assisted financing. The incorporator of 550 Superior LLC is Jacqueline Hoelting who works for Paul Singerman at Singerman Mills Desberg & Kauntz Co., LPA. Her bio: Jacqueline A. Hoelting has been named an associate of Singerman Mills Desberg & Kauntz Co., LPA. She will practice in the areas of real estate law, business law and corporate and real estate financing. I love a little intrigue. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 7, 20159 yr Just remembered something else about this transaction. This was the former 2-3 level parking deck that was demolished a few years ago. Weston didn't own this property. Instead, Forest City Enterprises acquired some or all of this property from Kersdale Ltd Partnership (Ed Kowitt et al) in about 2010 (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4om657Mrjf4J:https://www.dln.com/realestatetransfers/index/page/10974+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us).... June 15, 2010 508 SUPERIOR AVE Cleveland, OH 44113 Grantor: KERSDALE LTD PARTNERSHIP Grantee: WEST SIXTH SUPERIOR, LLC Real Estate Values Label Value Land $341,900.00 Property $157,100.00 Total $499,000.00 ++++++ June 15, 2010 550 SUPERIOR AVE Cleveland, OH 44113 Grantor: SUPERIOR WEST 6TH Grantee: WEST SIXTH SUPERIOR, LLC Real Estate Values Label Value Land $1,972,800.00 Property $521,500.00 Total $2,494,300.00 So Forest City sold this property to "550 Superior LLC" -- still don't know who that is. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 7, 20159 yr Stark needs cash flow. Here's my goofy prediction: I think he'll partner with these guys from KRI Capital to build some multi-family on Stark's lots in the WHD. Stark will turn around and use the revenues from that to finance nuCLEus and 515 Euclid. The fact that Welty moved out of 515 Euclid and took the furniture store with them screams to me that the concept of putting an apartment tower atop 515 Euclid has a real pulse. Perhaps imminent. I'm with you on the possibility of Start partnering to do the multifamily but the Welty move was just basic math. They signed a lease on the Euclid space back when it was all tore up with the Health line construction and got a smoking deal. Their lease was up and landlord wanted a much higher rate. Thus why they moved to less glamorous digs over at old Sammy's space.
October 7, 20159 yr I'm with you on the possibility of Start partnering to do the multifamily but the Welty move was just basic math. They signed a lease on the Euclid space back when it was all tore up with the Health line construction and got a smoking deal. Their lease was up and landlord wanted a much higher rate. Thus why they moved to less glamorous digs over at old Sammy's space. I responded to the 515 Euclid part at that thread: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,3198.msg774734.html#msg774734 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 8, 20159 yr Does anyone know anything about this? A coworker asked me if I knew what it was and I've never heard of it? The location is listed as 1266 West 6th Street, Suite 301, Cleveland which is the address for Rumours. https://www.escapein60.co/
October 9, 20159 yr ^ Ahhhh! That sounds like an escape room. I've never done it, but if I understand it correctly you and a group of people are basically locked in a room (there are differing themes and difficulties) and have to use skills of observance, critical thinking and resourcefulness to get out. Within a certain time of course. Had no idea Cleveland was getting one!
October 9, 20159 yr I have no idea what you people are talking about with these weird, new-fangled club ideas. I miss the 1980s. :cry: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 9, 20159 yr ^ I don't think I'd call it a club. It's more like just a fun, unique activity to do with your friends.
October 9, 20159 yr Does anyone know anything about this? A coworker asked me if I knew what it was and I've never heard of it? The location is listed as 1266 West 6th Street, Suite 301, Cleveland which is the address for Rumours. https://www.escapein60.co/ These are actually really fun and intense! I did one with a group of attorneys in Miami when I lived down there. I just read Cleveland Heights got one as well. Both this one and Cleveland Heights look better than the one I did.
October 20, 20159 yr From Crain's... We're getting a @jimmyjohns in @CLEwarehouse District in the old D'Vine Wine Bar space. https://t.co/FuprgFn1V3 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 20, 20159 yr ^ Meh. X2 but the Euclid Ave one must be doing pretty well for another one to open a few blocks away.
October 20, 20159 yr Probably just another location for them to prepare sandwiches and deliver out of. I'm sure their walk in business is lackluster at best.
October 20, 20159 yr That's depressing. An intimate wine bar for a Jimmy Johns. True. I'm still bent out of shape about Phoenix Coffee closing. I'm not quite sure there's any place left in the WHD that could lure me there. Oh - Johnnys and the Mermaid.
October 20, 20159 yr I'm still partial to Santorinis, Johnny's Little Bar, Camino, Taza & XO I already have Baroco and Greek Village (same gyro's as Santorinis) in my hood or I'd definitely hit those places up. Ya know I'm glad you mentioned Taza as the building renovation seems really impressive. I've kinda forgotten about it, but I'd go check it out just to get a good look inside. Anyhow, I wonder just what kind of growth we should realistically expect for WHD until those big lots get filled?
October 20, 20159 yr I hate "what's going on with so-and-so project?" questions as much as the next person, but... We are coming up on 2 years since the Worthington building won $5 million in state preservation tax credits. The program rules mention progress reports and other requirements that have to be met. Some projects drag on for years without a public peep, so I don't know how strictly the rules are kept (or how easy it is to show trivial progress). The current owner of the property is "OLD CLEVELAND" which public records list at the same address as the Dalad Group in Independence. So they did end up buying the property (there were articles saying the purchase was contingent on getting the tax credits). Haven't heard anything since. Oddly enough there was a big to-do about renovating the courtyard in the middle of the block. There are actually two courtyards tucked between the buildings. Dalad Group doesn't own either of them.
October 20, 20159 yr That's depressing. An intimate wine bar for a Jimmy Johns. When and Why did D'Vine close? I did a quick Google search and couldn't find anything. Seemed like a nice place.
October 20, 20159 yr That's depressing. An intimate wine bar for a Jimmy Johns. When and Why did D'Vine close? I did a quick Google search and couldn't find anything. Seemed like a nice place. I want to say it was around a year ago, back when I was living in the neighborhood. They had a sign up for awhile saying they were remodeling (was still up last I walked past), but then there were reports last year that JJs would be moving in the space instead.
October 22, 20159 yr Just remembered something else about this transaction. This was the former 2-3 level parking deck that was demolished a few years ago. Weston didn't own this property. Instead, Forest City Enterprises acquired some or all of this property from Kersdale Ltd Partnership (Ed Kowitt et al) in about 2010 (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4om657Mrjf4J:https://www.dln.com/realestatetransfers/index/page/10974+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us).... June 15, 2010 508 SUPERIOR AVE Cleveland, OH 44113 Grantor: KERSDALE LTD PARTNERSHIP Grantee: WEST SIXTH SUPERIOR, LLC Real Estate Values Label Value Land $341,900.00 Property $157,100.00 Total $499,000.00 ++++++ June 15, 2010 550 SUPERIOR AVE Cleveland, OH 44113 Grantor: SUPERIOR WEST 6TH Grantee: WEST SIXTH SUPERIOR, LLC Real Estate Values Label Value Land $1,972,800.00 Property $521,500.00 Total $2,494,300.00 So Forest City sold this property to "550 Superior LLC" -- still don't know who that is. The tax mailing address was added to this property ownership record -- it's Chelm Properties: http://www.chelmproperties.com/ Chelm develops and manages commercial properties -- office, warehouse, or industrial. EDIT: They've also had recent dealings (http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/01/geis_industrial_properties_go.html) regarding suburban industrial properties with Geis Co. (developer of The 9 and Heinen's) and Harbor Group International (owns 200 Public Square as well as 515 Euclid Ave). And, interestingly, another party was involved in that deal that involved Chelm, Geis and Harbor Group -- Reuven Dessler. He's the guy that got Stark involved with Harbor Group to develop the residential tower atop 515 Euclid. So Stark could be involved in 508/550 Superior as well. If Stark Enterprises is involved, I hope they aren't biting off more than they can chew.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 22, 20159 yr Cross-posted in the Vintage Cleveland photos thread... This view is actually looking west on Superior from West 3rd which is just out of view to the right, showing the buildings that were demolished on the north side of Superior for the vast sea of parking lots we have in the Warehouse District today. BTW, this photo predates the Rockefeller building at Superior & West 6. Behind the third streetcar from the photographer is the Weddell House Hotel (stood 1847-1903) which was demolished in 1903 for the Rockefeller Building. Beyond it is the Perry-Payne Building with its unique balconies facing Superior... Encycle @EncyCle_ 1h1 hour ago #TBT Superior Ave. near West 6th ca. 1900s, when trolleys dominated #Cleveland street scene. #thiswascle #cwru #ohio "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 22, 20159 yr ^ I pedaled through an alley from W9 to W6 today and was admiring a few patches of exposed cobblestone.
November 9, 20159 yr As of its recording Sept. 30, we have another real estate transaction in the WHD -- at least two parcels that were formerly one of Weston's parking lots owned under the name of "West Sixth Superior LLC" was acquired by a company formed Sept. 22 called "550 Superior LLC." The two parcels are 508 Superior (101-10-014) and 550 Superior (101-10-013). Ironically, several other parcels along Superior between West 3rd and West 6th that had data previously available from the Cuyahoga County Fiscal Officer now are no longer available. These are parcels 101-10-007, -008, -009, -010 and -015. However another parcel (101-10-012) right in the middle of the block on Superior is still as owned by a Weston affiliate. There are no dollar amounts for the sale, which means it's probably a quit-claim or another one of these seller-financed deals. So who is 550 Superior LLC? I have no idea. But... The attorney to whom this corporation is listed is a big wheel: Paul Singerman. The relevant part of his bio... Mr. Singerman also represents residential and commercial developers in connection with all aspects of their real estate acquisitions and development. In his real estate practice, Mr. Singerman counsels developers and acquirers of low-income housing projects, assisting such clients with all aspects of their transactions, including low-income housing tax credit syndications, tax-exempt and taxable bond financing and HUD/FHA assisted financing. The incorporator of 550 Superior LLC is Jacqueline Hoelting who works for Paul Singerman at Singerman Mills Desberg & Kauntz Co., LPA. Her bio: Jacqueline A. Hoelting has been named an associate of Singerman Mills Desberg & Kauntz Co., LPA. She will practice in the areas of real estate law, business law and corporate and real estate financing. I love a little intrigue. Missed a third property: Parcel # 101-10-056 owned as of Sept. 15 by: "550 SUPERIOR LLC & WEST 3RD & SUPERIOR LTD" Note that name of the prior owner "WEST 3RD & SUPERIOR LTD" (ie: Weston) is incorporated into the name of the new owner "550 Superior LLC" which owns the other two parcels. So this appears to be a partnership between Weston and some unidentified party who may be Chelm Properties. This parcel is a very small, narrow property on the east side of West 6th, mid-block between Frankfort and Superior, contiguous to the back of the other two properties owned by 550 Superior which front Superior. EDIT: it's the purple property below. A tiny property, but it's joint ownership is an interesting insight... Cleveland WHD parcel map-110915 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 9, 20159 yr Anticipating the inevitable question, here are the parcels Stark Enterprises bought in the Warehouse District as part of the Cleveland properties owned by the LA-based company until last year. Also noted the mid-19th century Hilliard Building which sold a couple months ago... Cleveland Stark parcels in WHD-110915 by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 10, 20159 yr Anyone know what this is about? Warehouse Historic District: Case 15-076 St. Clair Avenue Superior Avenue West 3rd Street West 6th Street New mixed-use construction project Master Plan and Phase I Ward 3 Cimperman http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2015/11122015/index.php
November 10, 20159 yr Anyone know what this is about? Warehouse Historic District: Case 15-076 St. Clair Avenue Superior Avenue West 3rd Street West 6th Street New mixed-use construction project Master Plan and Phase I Ward 3 Cimperman http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2015/11122015/index.php Is it finally happening?
November 10, 20159 yr Anyone know what this is about? Warehouse Historic District: Case 15-076 St. Clair Avenue Superior Avenue West 3rd Street West 6th Street New mixed-use construction project Master Plan and Phase I Ward 3 Cimperman http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2015/11122015/index.php Is it finally happening? Given the streets described, sounds like it's related to the recent property transactions I mapped yesterday (now on the prior page of this thread). BTW, when I see equipment prying up slabs of asphalt parking lot, then I'll agree it's happening. :) "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 10, 20159 yr Anyone know what this is about? Warehouse Historic District: Case 15-076 St. Clair Avenue Superior Avenue West 3rd Street West 6th Street New mixed-use construction project Master Plan and Phase I Ward 3 Cimperman http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/landmark/agenda/2015/11122015/index.php Is it finally happening? Given the streets described, sounds like it's related to the recent property transactions I mapped yesterday (now on the prior page of this thread). No renderings were attached to the agenda which seems strange considering every other item listed has pics. Hmmm...
November 10, 20159 yr No renderings were attached to the agenda which seems strange considering every other item listed has pics. Hmmm... I've been scouring the interwebs for any graphics or other info, but nothing current shows up. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 10, 20159 yr It's titled Master Plan and Phase 1. Does it need renderings, or is it more so a study for feasibility or economic impact? Phase 1 may imply a Ph 1 Environmental Site Assessment. Do we know who brought this in front of the planning commission?
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