They were on all four corners of this intersection, but took pix of only two.

 

 

 

 

 

close-ups

 

 

 

They were getting honking horns in support.

 

 

 

 

Cool.

Stupid

Democracy in action, I love it! 

Stupid

 

Are you a Republican?

 

Personally, these people are expressing their right to protest against a war that a majority feel is no longer justified nor worth our effort and money. I join the ranks of protesters on occasion.

Does it matter?  There are many things I disagree with, but standing on a street corner in Kettering protesting the war is still stupid.  Of course, they have a right to protest, and they have a right to hold signs that say stupid things.

 

"slaying civilians for profit and power"

 

"another war for the profit of our wealthy at the expense of our poor"

"Stupid things"? You mean, statements that you disagree with. Statements that may hold factual value that you disagree with. Just because a person may hold a personal opinion against your reservation, doesn't demean their "stupid things" to lame statements.

 

Standing on a street corner protesting isn't stupid. It's a very visible location that will garner a lot of attention. Likewise, standing on the steps of Capitol Hill and protesting does the same.

Neither of those statements hold factual value.  You are just another of those who think everything the US does is evil.  They are still stupid statements. 

Outed a Republican/Bill O' Reilly supporter! :) So instead of actually trying to refute the comments, you label those who protest the war as those who make "stupid" comments or apply a blanket label that I believe that the US does all evil.

 

On the contrary, I hold a belief that the US is one of the most generous nations and that there is much to love. But I hold a strong disagreement towards the Iraq War and future World War II -- Iran. It's been clear from the start that we are fighting a losing battle, that only the defense contractors and their lobbiests profit, and so forth. Too many reasons to go into detail here, but it's well covered. Add to that the whole Blackwater incident, where several mercenaries murdered several Iraqi civilians and were recently granted immunity by this administration... Add to that Guatamino Bay, where the principles of liberty and justice have gone by the way side.

 

Gee, kind of makes you wonder why so many protest on street corners.

If you want, I can post my pictures from the large anti war protest had here in DC.

Does it matter?  There are many things I disagree with, but standing on a street corner in Kettering protesting the war is still stupid

 

Don't let your disagreement with the hyperbole of the slogans and your opposition to the political position blind you to the efficacy of this type of protest.

 

This demo was held at one of the busier weekend times at this location, early Saturday afternoon, just after lunch.

 

If it was held, say, at a "traditional" location downtown at the Federal Building or Courthouse Square at the day and time, it would have been invisible.  No one would have seen it except for people waiting for RTA.

 

By holding it at this location the demonstrators had pretty high visibility, and it permitted people who might be opposed to the war but not activists signal their support from the privacy of their cars, be laying on the horn. This also as a build-up effect, as if two or three people who blow the horn will cause others to do as well (i've seen this pyschology in action during the anti-bussing protests in Louisville).

 

Just a bit of symoblic action there, but the concept is to show solidarity and reinforce anti-war sentiment. 

 

So, no, not stupid at all, as a tactic, even if one disagrees with the politics.

 

 

Does it matter?  There are many things I disagree with, but standing on a street corner in Kettering protesting the war is still stupid.

 

If these corner protests can affect 1 person then they have done their job.  Not to mention they are keeping the attention on the subject.  There is nothing more that Republicans would like than to get all the attention off of the Iraq War.

 

If there are 1,000's of these demonstrations each day across the nation and each one affects 1 new person and how they would vote, then that is a BIG deal.

My personal view wouldn't label these folks as "stupid", but I would have to disagree with the beliefs and some of the so called "facts" on their signs.   I have many family and friends involved with this war, and I will admit that the money could be spent better within our own country.   BUT, I hinge my beliefs on the fact that ALL of my friends and family involved believe we are doing the right thing here.

 

How would public perception change if a bus blows up in a major American city later today?

 

Whether you think we brought all this on ourselves from the first Gulf War or not, the threat is real and it's here to stay.    I don't believe we should be the World Police, but do you think the UN or NATO will do anything about it?   

 

We could bring every troop home today, but one incident (which we haven't had since 911) would end up sending us right back over to where ever these slimeballs reside.    This is going to be this generations Cold War whether you like it or not.

How would public perception change if a bus blows up in a major American city later today?

 

What would that have to do with the war in Iraq or potential war in Iran?

 

Whether you think we brought all this on ourselves from the first Gulf War or not, the threat is real and it's here to stay.    I don't believe we should be the World Police, but do you think the UN or NATO will do anything about it?

 

The UN/NATO wouldn't have done much about it, but it's not our job to police the world. Instead of being respected and revered by other world leaders, we are mocked and humiliated worldwide. Tourists to parts of Europe are now given pamphlets on how not to act "American" for fear of bullying, humiliation and other distasteful acts. All for what? We removed Hussein from power, but in the end, we have created far more chaos than envisioned, and now we have mercenaries like Blackwater that murder people for the pure sport and are granted immunity by this administration. Not to mention, we have Guatatamino Bay where people are tortured, are denied their basic civil rights and liberties, and where we torture and humiliate suspected criminals in jails and prisons in Iraq and elsewhere.

 

We could bring every troop home today, but one incident (which we haven't had since 911) would end up sending us right back over to where ever these slimeballs reside.    This is going to be this generations Cold War whether you like it or not.

 

Events that led up to the September 11, 2007 events were not caused by Saddam Hussein, but by Al-Quaeda.

We could go round and round on every topic you've mentioned.   Gitmo, Blackwater, Hussein, Al- Queada, etc.

 

Gitmo was left wing media propaganda for ending the war.   I don't believe in torture, but I look at it as if, DO WHATEVER NESSISARY TO GAIN THE UPPER HAND AND KEEP OUR PEOPLE AND SOLDIERS SAFE.  (PERIOD)   

 

"Guatatamino Bay where people are tortured, are denied their basic civil rights and liberties, and where we torture and humiliate suspected criminals in jails and prisons in Iraq and elsewhere."

 

These scumbags don't play by any rules AT ALL!   Suicide bombers with no regard to ANY HUMAN LIFE or borders and be headings played out on the internet.    We are not dealing with a country with borders when it comes to Al-Queada and all involved.   

 

They do what they have to do to keep YOU safe under a banner that allows for YOU to disagree!    I ask that you please keep this in mind.

 

"What would that have to do with the war in Iraq or potential war in Iran?"

 

IRAN????    I didn't mention Iran

I don't think we should go to war with Iran.  Dialogue!     

Probably what we should have done in Iraq, but we didn't.   

Hussein killed 500,000 Kurds.  He was a tyrannical Dictator who did something that someone named Hitler did.   He didn't have WMD's so we were wrong or misled, however you want to look at it.   Things are getting better, but it will take time.   The Japanease were not happy with us after WWII for obvious reasons.  (Nuclear action - not justifying that either.) 

 

Blackwater - Trigger happy, over paid contractors.   I don't like them!

 

We can agree to disagree here.   I will hold my beliefs as you will hold on to yours.   Only time will tell as to how this will ultimately play out.   Maybe or maybe not in our lifetime.

We can agree to disagree here.  I will hold my beliefs as you will hold on to yours.  Only time will tell as to how this will ultimately play out.  Maybe or maybe not in our lifetime.

 

Until then...we just need to continue living in fear, and sacrifice our liberties for ultimate cause of national security.

Come on Randy, what liberties are you sacrificing?

 

BTW, if Saddam was still in power, how do you think he would be handling the Iranian situation?  Do you think he would or would not be escalating his own nuclear power?  And yes, he did have WMD, everyone had the same information.  Everyone.  The UN, the democrats, the republicans, the Clintons.  Clinton even bombed Iraq over it.

 

We did the right thing.  Iraq was a haven for terrorists.  Keep the fighting over there.

And yes, he did have WMD, everyone had the same information.

 

And we now know that this intelligence was flawed. What proof is there that he had WMD? This has been debated over and over but where is the proof?

Come on Randy, what liberties are you sacrificing?

We did the right thing.  Iraq was a haven for terrorists.  Keep the fighting over there.

 

Well, let's see here.

 

1. I was searched and detained by authorities for taking bridge photographs for my web-site, Bridges & Tunnels. You know, every person toting a camera is now a suspected terrorist. And every photographer with a bag is now suspected to be a suicide bomber. From what they told me, I had "no liberties" and "no freedoms" since 9/11 because I appearantly matched a profile of a terrorist. You know, blue jeans, collared shirt, hat, camera backpack, Nikon D70 in hand with a lens. This coming from not only the local and county police, but from the Feds who were called to intervene. I was let off after I refused to answer _any_ questions except for my name, my address and the reason I was there -- and after I threatened a very public lawsuit; I have buddies at two news stations and newspapers who would pursue this to the end. They couldn't hold me on anything, yet I was harassed for pursuing a basic fundamental right that has now been tarnished in the name of saving every human being from every potential event.

 

2. People in New York City can no longer take photos of bridges, subways or any other infrastructure without prior approval (and payment). Except that this has been challenged (MTA example). Good work MTA for screwing over another liberty.

 

So where does it end? I have read endless blogs and reports of people having their cameras detained, people being arrested, etc. for taking photos of buildings. You know, like most UrbanOhio photographers do. Cityscapes. Bridges. Buildings. Where does it end? Where does the nanny state cross over the legal rights and start wiping their asses with a copy of the constitution?

 

I've fought for my cases, where I was unduly harassed and detained, or pursued by the police on bogus charges. I've been questioned five times on my web-sites, ranging from Bridges & Tunnels to Abandoned. And I'm not going down without a fight.

 

As for this: "We did the right thing.  Iraq was a haven for terrorists.  Keep the fighting over there."

 

9/11 was not caused by Iraq. It was caused by Al Quaeda. Which was not in Iraq prior to our invasion. Please cite where Iraq was a haven for Al Quaeda and you'll come back with state department reports not backing that up.

We did the right thing.  Iraq was a haven for terrorists.  Keep the fighting over there.

 

Iraq is an even worse haven for terrorists today than it was when Saddam was in power.  This is now a country essentially in a state of anarchy and there are more terrorists there than ever.  While Saddam did a lot of horrible things, he also was responsible for keeping that country in order and he also did a number of public infrastructure things that made Iraq one of the best and most stable Middle-Eastern nations.

 

BTW...I hate the notion of lets keep the fighting over there, and lets be on the offensive rather than the defensive.  Should children constantly be on the offensive so that they never have to be the subject of an attack (bully)?  I guess these children should just punch any/every potential bully that is in their sights just so that they can be in the drivers seat.

 

Post 9/11 we were defending ourselves...at this point we are just going over board.  There is some sort of legal concept that essentially says it is self-defense up until a certain point.  After a while it is no longer self-defense but rather a plain and simple attack.  There is nothing morally right about what America is doing over in Iraq.

 

1. I was searched and detained by authorities for taking bridge photographs for my web-site, Bridges & Tunnels. You know, every person toting a camera is now a suspected terrorist. And every photographer with a bag is now suspected to be a suicide bomber. From what they told me, I had "no liberties" and "no freedoms" since 9/11 because I appearantly matched a profile of a terrorist. You know, blue jeans, collared shirt, hat, camera backpack, Nikon D70 in hand with a lens. This coming from not only the local and county police, but from the Feds who were called to intervene. I was let off after I refused to answer _any_ questions except for my name, my address and the reason I was there -- and after I threatened a very public lawsuit; I have buddies at two news stations and newspapers who would pursue this to the end. They couldn't hold me on anything, yet I was harassed for pursuing a basic fundamental right that has now been tarnished in the name of saving every human being from every potential event.

 

You really have a lot of problems getting along with authority don't you?  Besides authority, you can't even get along with the homeless!  Mugged by a homeless person, stopped by the police, you just can't avoid conflict.  I'm sure the feds were really scared by some punk kid with "friends" at news stations.

 

I'm sure you had an attitude, expressed it like you were suffering by being asked questions.  I would have detained you myself.  There are plenty of people out there taking pictures not being harrassed.

 

Asking someone reasonable questions is not out of line.  Copping an attitude gets you what you deserve.  I would like a little more profiling, rather than making my 84 yo mother climb out of her wheelchair to be wanded at the airport while someone who looks like a terrorist walks through.

 

This always gets a good response, so I'll tell you the same thing.  Appreciate what rights you have, and GROW UP!!!

 

 

  There is nothing morally right about what America is doing over in Iraq.

 

Randy, I don't like the fact that our soldiers are dying in Iraq, but there is nothing morally wrong with what we are doing.  You can disagree with the approach, but we are morally right in what we want to accomplish.

You really have a lot of problems getting along with authority don't you?  Besides authority, you can't even get along with the homeless!  Mugged by a homeless person, stopped by the police, you just can't avoid conflict.  I'm sure the feds were really scared by some punk kid with "friends" at news stations.

 

I'm sure you had an attitude, expressed it like you were suffering by being asked questions.  I would have detained you myself.  There are plenty of people out there taking pictures not being harrassed.

 

Asking someone reasonable questions is not out of line.  Copping an attitude gets you what you deserve.  I would like a little more profiling, rather than making my 84 yo mother climb out of her wheelchair to be wanded at the airport while someone who looks like a terrorist walks through.

 

This always gets a good response, so I'll tell you the same thing.  Appreciate what rights you have, and GROW UP!!!

 

Yay! We have a response that borders on trolling. How appreciative that you have your facts entirely wrong.

 

I have no problems with authority, only those that want to abuse my civil liberties and freedoms to photograph bridges, buildings and whatever else I damn well please. You seem to have forgotten that the First Amendment protects speech and expression, and that those liberties can never be denied under any circumstance -- whether it is over this "9/11" hysteria or what have you.

 

Asking reasonable questions is proper, I grant you that. But when the questions involve whether I was "plotting to expose the dam photographs to suspected terrorists" or "have you had any contact with Al-Quaeda or any Muslim religious organizations," that is where I draw the line. The latter question is just a tad scary for my tastes, now that we are labelling entire Muslim organizations as possible terrorist hotbeds.

 

And there are not "plenty" of people out there not being harassed. Have you kept up with the MTA debates? Or read where many have had their cameras confiscated (stolen) because they were photographing subways? Or those who were photographing bridges? You won't hear about it on Fox News, but it's out there.

 

Of course, you also fail to see how I was mugged by a homeless person. On a street, with a camera strapped on the shoulder and $3,000 worth of gear in the backpack. Thankfully he didn't aim for the very expensive camera and only aimed for the wallet, threatening me with a knife. Now, does that sound like I was instigating conflict? It's always nice to hear the other side of the story, right?

 

And you would do a "little more profiling." Can you elaborate? Do "brown people" count? Or Asians? Do we go after the hippies and protesters, who by all means, could be cooperating with terrorists by chanting against everything this administration stands for?

 

As for me being a "punk," I believe those that have met and have communicated with me for years could tell you different. Even those from this board. They would be able to vouch, based on my contributions here and through personal dialogue.

 

Great trolling attempt though.

 

You might want to check out Bridges & Tunnels for some of my "terroristic" photographs.

...it's a dangerous day to be a straw man on Urban Ohio!  Left and right, they're all taking body blows...

 

Yeah, this is like the Clusterf@#ck to the White House thread. Probably should be locked since it will probably degenerate into a cat and mouse thread.

Come on Randy, what liberties are you sacrificing?

We did the right thing.  Iraq was a haven for terrorists.  Keep the fighting over there.

 

Well, let's see here.

 

1. I was searched and detained by authorities for taking bridge photographs for my web-site, Bridges & Tunnels. You know, every person toting a camera is now a suspected terrorist. And every photographer with a bag is now suspected to be a suicide bomber. From what they told me, I had "no liberties" and "no freedoms" since 9/11 because I appearantly matched a profile of a terrorist. You know, blue jeans, collared shirt, hat, camera backpack, Nikon D70 in hand with a lens. This coming from not only the local and county police, but from the Feds who were called to intervene. I was let off after I refused to answer _any_ questions except for my name, my address and the reason I was there -- and after I threatened a very public lawsuit; I have buddies at two news stations and newspapers who would pursue this to the end. They couldn't hold me on anything, yet I was harassed for pursuing a basic fundamental right that has now been tarnished in the name of saving every human being from every potential event.

 

2. People in New York City can no longer take photos of bridges, subways or any other infrastructure without prior approval (and payment). Except that this has been challenged (MTA example). Good work MTA for screwing over another liberty.

 

So where does it end? I have read endless blogs and reports of people having their cameras detained, people being arrested, etc. for taking photos of buildings. You know, like most UrbanOhio photographers do. Cityscapes. Bridges. Buildings. Where does it end? Where does the nanny state cross over the legal rights and start wiping their asses with a copy of the constitution?

 

I've fought for my cases, where I was unduly harassed and detained, or pursued by the police on bogus charges. I've been questioned five times on my web-sites, ranging from Bridges & Tunnels to Abandoned. And I'm not going down without a fight.

 

As for this: "We did the right thing.  Iraq was a haven for terrorists.  Keep the fighting over there."

 

9/11 was not caused by Iraq. It was caused by Al Quaeda. Which was not in Iraq prior to our invasion. Please cite where Iraq was a haven for Al Quaeda and you'll come back with state department reports not backing that up.

 

 

 

 

Seicer,    I will agree with you entirely regarding most of what you have said above involving the taking pics and being harassed by authority.  It has happened to me and many people I know.    You seem to keep tabs on these civil liberties and freedom subjects.      Just a question to anyone who cares to answer.  I, recently was handed a stack of documents and told that this is the Patriot Act.    I hadn't looked to much into this since its conception several years back.  I had no idea that this ONE ACT was something like 2 and a half reams of paper thick.    I was speechless after reading page after page of "Nonsense" to say the least.   

 

Has anyone seen a printed version of this?            I was stunned in disbelief!

 

 

Thanks for the comments and support. I involve myself with these situations mainly because I have a keen sense of the law and I am well versed with the constitution. It's impossible to deny that there is corruption at all levels; it's impossible to deny that there are corrupt or power-grabbing police; it's impossible to deny that some would want a police state for the protection of "all". I keep tabs on these subjects because I feel that every citizen or poster deserves to know the atrocities that occur on our own soil. Not in Iraq. Not in Afghanistan. Not in North Korea. But in the good ol' United States of America, where an ordinary citizen can be detained, refused a lawyer, tortured, and be kept in secret indefinitely with no charge. Where an ordinary citizen can be detained, his/her equipment stolen (at least they returned mine, many are not so lucky), badgered for hours on topics that are asinine at best, all in the banner of preventing another 9/11.

 

I had a printed copy of the Patriot Act and I was... pretty much disappointed that our country has come down to this. Most Americans have no idea what the Patriot Act entails, only hearing brief bits about it on the news media. They hear about its perils on CNN, it's greatness on FOX, and make their decisions based on what the reporter says. If people took the time to do a little research, they would be appalled that the Patriot Act contains provisions that are just as bad as what we are "liberating" other countries for.

Paranoia strikes deep,

Into your life it will creep.

It starts when you're

always afraid. You step out

of line, the man come and

take you away.

 

--Buffalo Springfield

 

 

Dan, you can make your point without the insults. Or you can have a few days off. Your choice.

Mayday,

 

I did not begin this by insulting anyone on this board.  I only expressed an opinion, and this is what I got back:

 

Are you a Republican?

 

Outed a Republican/Bill O' Reilly supporter!

 

What does my political affiliation have to do with this?  Are Republicans not allowed here? 

 

I apologize for the punk comment and the grow up statment.

 

It seems that many of my comments get some sort of sarcastic insulting response, couched under the guise of humor (your clever Republican photos on the giving to homeless thread, for example) when I try to do the same, I get slammed.

 

We've been through this before.  I'll behave. :wtf:

"couched under the guise of humor (your clever Republican photos on the giving to homeless thread, for example) when I try to do the same, I get slammed."

 

Then maybe you should take notes on how to be clever ;-)

You missed my sarcasm Dan, when I inserted in :) , which you cleverly removed from your quote, on the latter statement. The former statement was a broad question regarding your pro-Iraq War statements, just to get a general demographic question (e.g. because very few democrats support the war). I can't see how you can conceive that to be an insult.

^I guess you got the brunt of my frustration over the constant bashing of the Republicans and the war situation.

 

The following is not meant as an insult.

 

While Saddam did a lot of horrible things, he also was responsible for keeping that country in order and he also did a number of public infrastructure things that made Iraq one of the best and most stable Middle-Eastern nations.

 

This is the same thing they said about Hitler.  Marge Schott said it best:

 

"Everything you read, when he came in [to power] he was good...They built tremendous highways and got all the factories going...Everybody knows he was good at the beginning but he just went too far."

 

 

Well, I don't see how you can conceive a post regarding "anti-war demonstrations," as indicated in the topic title, to be "constant bashing." Yes, you are entitled to your opinions, but this thread was regarding a protest which someone was generous enough to grab photographs of. Calling these people "stupid" is just really quite unconstructive to the thread and conversation and adds no value; that's what I called you out upon in my initial statement.

 

Not everyone here is a liberal or anti-War, as there are better venues than this thread (and this forum) for Iraq-war discussions.

Ohio Politics...

 

Ohio-related only, please... hum...

Here we go again!!  :wink:

 

I was referring to all boards about the conservative bashing, not just this one. 

 

As to the thread, someone posted a one word post,  "Cool";  I responded "Stupid".  I wasn't referring to the people as stupid.  Later I said their actions and the ridiculous statements on their signs were stupid.  And who are you to decide whether or not my comments are constructive or add value?  Did the Cool statement add value?

 

Can we let this go now?

We sure can.