Posted November 6, 200717 yr Hey guys, This might be a stupid idea... I think that issue 27 was by far the most important issue on today's ballot. Here is the urban ohio exit poll! How did you vote?
November 6, 200717 yr That issue was not on my ballot today (Warren County), but I agree it is an extremely important issue for Hamilton County (Cincinnati & suburbs). Not so much for the amount of the tax, but for the way the county administraters tried an end-run around the voters and got caught! I love voter-initiated ballot issues!
November 7, 200717 yr Issue 27: Hamilton Co. Public Safety Sales Tax 38 of 880 precincts reporting Candidate/Issue Votes Percent No 16,915 51.5% Yes 15,928 48.5%
November 7, 200717 yr I think people are still bitter about the stadium sales tax. I just don't understand why else you would vote this down...it was a solid plan from top to bottom in my opinion. I don't know that we'll ever get a much better plan put before us for this issue. Well done Hamilton County...you've screwed the pooch on two consecutive sales tax issues. First it was a comprehensive transit plan with a focus on rail...then now you vote down a comprehensive safety plan that had a focus on treatment/rehabilitation. I'm just sick right now.
November 7, 200717 yr The energy for a solution to jail issue must come from the black community. While the school ballot lost in the farther reaches of the East and West side, the jail tax went done in the black neighborhoods in the core. I'm not sure how that happens but as long as the county sheriff is involved it isn't going anywhere. It is perceived true or not as a racist plan.
November 8, 200717 yr >ve safety plan that had a focus on treatment/rehabilitation. Rehab's a joke. The simple fact is they jail way too many people for minor drug and alcohol offenses because they're in violation of probation for previous minor offenses. Last weekend a person I know who is 19 woke up, walked outside, and was narced-out and in jail by 10:30am before even sipping a beer at a tailgating party. She apparently opened the beer can, didn't even take a drink, and that was enough to put her in jail for six hours, strip searched, etc. So Simon Leis why don't you chew on that a little, okay?
November 8, 200717 yr Well done Hamilton County...you've screwed the pooch on two consecutive sales tax issues. First it was a comprehensive transit plan with a focus on rail... I'm not sure if you were around in 2002, but there were some pretty legitimate reasons to vote down the MetroMoves plan, even for rail advocates.
November 8, 200717 yr It looks like the OTR beat of the Hamilton County Deputies will end because the Failure. What the hell is that about??? Focus on high crime area's. So they would rather crime get out of hand again because the voters turned it down.
November 8, 200717 yr Well done Hamilton County...you've screwed the pooch on two consecutive sales tax issues. First it was a comprehensive transit plan with a focus on rail... I'm not sure if you were around in 2002, but there were some pretty legitimate reasons to vote down the MetroMoves plan, even for rail advocates. Yes I was around...but while the plan wasn't perfect; it did not have enough negatives about it to warrant the massive defeat that it suffered. The residents of this region seem to be having a greater anti-tax knee jerk reaction.
November 8, 200717 yr ^Yea, they always come up with an excuse for everything!! The most important issues of our time: CRIME, TRANSPORTATION, AND EDUCATION. "Don't raise the sales tax. I am going to be buying an SUV and flatscreen soon" "I will never ride that thing" "My kids don't go to that school. Why should I pay when I'm paying out the %$^ now for QUALITY CATHOLIC (OR PRIVATE) EDUCATION."
November 9, 200717 yr Yes I was around...but while the plan wasn't perfect; it did not have enough negatives about it to warrant the massive defeat that it suffered. The residents of this region seem to be having a greater anti-tax knee jerk reaction. I think there is legitimate room to disagree on this. While I'd agree with you that the majority of voters probably voted it down because it would require higher taxes, I thought the plan was sloppy, to put it in one word. The case for rail was not well made, therefore it was rejected. That's politics. I ended up voting for the plan even though I didn't like it; I did so because I didn't think that any other rail transit plan would emerge anytime soon. But I was wrong- the streetcar plan came out. The streetcar proposal was everything the MetroMoves plan wasn't- limited to the area of highest value as well as highest desire, not dependent upon a tax increase, well promoted. Granted it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges, but I'd rather have a real apple than a picture of an orange.
November 9, 200717 yr "My kids don't go to that school. Why should I pay when I'm paying out the %$^ now for QUALITY CATHOLIC (OR PRIVATE) EDUCATION." I don't think that's fair at all - not when we voted for $1 billion in additional taxes for the school construction project a few years ago.
November 9, 200717 yr ^I am an extreme proponent of the Cincinnati Public School system, but Riverviewer is right. The leadership on the CPS Board is bad. Thank goodness Rick Williams is finally gone. I hope this new group of three, Flannery, Bolton and Nelms can do a good job, but I'm very skeptical. As a friend of mine said almost immediately after the school levy failed, it's no wonder that the voters weren't pleased by a school reconstruction plan that replaced attractive old school buildings with uninspired modern ones, while at the same time running over cost enormously. There's not much to be proud of there, even though CPS's academic programs are still really good. When I think of this mess, I always remember the crazy negative overreaction people had to Mark Mallory's suggestion that the Mayor's office take a more direct role regarding the city's schools. Even though he'd end up nominating half of the board (to be approved by council) while the other half would remain elected, we would finally be charging a real politician that people actually pay attention to with accountability for the district.
November 9, 200717 yr Just to be clear, I voted for the school levy - I just don't think the levy failed because the voters are self-absorbed Scrooges... Another factor is that they put this on the ballot really late, without much time to put a good campaign together, to really push for it. It almost seemed like a preparatory levy - like, put this on this time to get folks talking about it, lay the groundwork for a strong campaign next time...
November 9, 200717 yr ^ The CPS levy was also a pretty big increase at once. I think it would have gotten more votes if it had been a smaller increase.
November 9, 200717 yr From what I read the newest board members are very union friendly. That could mean they're keep the status quo. That could make major changes difficult.
November 9, 200717 yr School levies consistently fail because of the high elderly turnout. That is not the whole story, but I would imagine that most people with children in school (public or private) vote for school levies because they see the short-term impacts and want their children to have the best. With that said, this is a discussion thread about the Safety Plan Tax that just failed. While the light rail tax plan may have been "sloppy" and the CPS levy may have been "too soon" it is all irrelevant. Why did this Safety Plan go down the way it did. We had donated land for the site, support from the community that was going to take it in, budgeted money for operating costs, a comprehensive approach that would hopefully address the core problem rather than just lock people up, and last but not least it was going to update some existing facilities and expand the overall capacity of our county jail system. I just don't understand how anyone could vote this down aside from the increased tax issue. Please someone prove me wrong, because I don't want to go around thinking that. I would like to think that 55% of our voting population doesn't simply vote down increased taxes because they are increased taxes.
November 9, 200717 yr the elderly services levy and the school levy should be the same issue, you can vote yes or no on both
November 9, 200717 yr I just don't understand how anyone could vote this down aside from the increased tax issue. Please someone prove me wrong, because I don't want to go around thinking that. I would like to think that 55% of our voting population doesn't simply vote down increased taxes because they are increased taxes. I don't think people are researching things carefully. Also, I've heard people say things like "people are thrown in jail who shouldn't be there." I would love to know who is in jail overnight who should not be there. Honestly, the fact that this failed makes me nervous. I wonder if the county will be sued or if there will be an increase in crime because people know there isn't enough space.
November 9, 200717 yr ^^I'm not sure I understand your point thomasbw. The school levy failed miserably (as most school levies do until they reach their 3rd or 4th try), and the Senior Services Levy and Mental Health Levies passed. With a typical elderly vote where is that off beat? They voted for the things that have a direct affect on them, and voted down the others (schools and the safety plan). Breakdown: Mental Health Levy 55% - 45% Senior Services 69% - 31% CPS Levy 42% -58% Safety Plan 45% - 55% Now maybe it's just a coincidence with these...or maybe it is something else, but I don't think I'm too far off here. The issue with the most direct impact for seniors (Senior Services Levy) garnered the most support followed by the Mental Health Levy. Then when you look at the two that went down you can probably assume that seniors saw a greater interest in the Safety Plan than the CPS Levy. Once again, you can see how those turned out...pretty much right in line with what issues the elderly support. It's all about turnout.
November 9, 200717 yr make issue 22 and 29 the same issue. Ex. Issue 51 do you support a xx mill tax for elderly services and school operations?
November 9, 200717 yr It is pretty clear that in the early 00s under Adamoski (sp?) there was a lot of energy in CPS, then they got one seriously overwhelmed Superintendent (Fraley sp?) and then one who had an enemies list as long as the Banks thread on UO. There was a reason she never rose above assistant Superintendent. Plenty of people who generally back the school levies thought this was wrong time and place to go to the voters. There was also a feeling that Blackwell and her cronies on the board were looking to crush the union. I'm decidedly not a supporter of public education theoretically or otherwise, but the 'crisis' in the public schools is never as bad or as good as people make them out to be. My guess is that most CPS schools are better today that in mid-80s under Powell but probably not as strong in the late 90s under Brandt and Adamoski.
November 9, 200717 yr I'm decidedly not a supporter of public education theoretically or otherwise, but the 'crisis' in the public schools is never as bad or as good as people make them out to be. My guess is that most CPS schools are better today that in mid-80s under Powell but probably not as strong in the late 90s under Brandt and Adamoski. Now I remember why I disliked you when I first met you. It's because you felt so salty paying for an intellectually inferior education to mine, which I got for free. Anyway you're pretty much right about the state of leadership regarding the superintendent situation. Frailey and Blackwell have been extremely "controversial" as some might say, "bad for the district" according to others. It's amazing how all the same issues that plague the city politically come up regarding school board, but they just don't draw the attention that council does, and therefore (in my opinion) no one is really held accountable. There's a big difference between the financial health of the district which is bad at the moment, and the health of the academic programs which has steadily been improving ever since Adamowski's tenure.
November 9, 200717 yr I'm always amazed the Mental Health Levy and Senior Services passes with ease year after year (I know, it's really every 4 years). These cost a decent amount of prop. tax. Why doesn't the Mental Health Levy cover part of what Issue 27 was supposedly going cover. To me it was a duplicate service. It things like this make Cincy and Hamilton country the Social Service capital of the region. Bring us your old, helpless and tax burdens and we'll take care of all their needs . . . on my dime.
