May 20, 200817 yr The Chicago River is more of a canal than it is a river if you ask me...and of course canals are immensely cool.
May 20, 200817 yr "Subdivision"? Stupid Surveying Terms. From an surveying perspective, a subdivision is just a division of a property into divisions. It is not a strictly suburban / exurban term. In fact, the City of Cincinnati probably has hundreds, if not thousands of subdivisions. Well, that's a fun tangent. Anyways, I can't wait to see the final product. This is too cool.
May 22, 200817 yr There's a picture of the model at the link. I don't know how to add pictures to posts yet... <b>New riverfront park model shown</b> BY JANE PRENDERGAST | [email protected] http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080522/NEWS0108/305220067/ There will be balconies overlooking the Ohio River, sculptures tucked into groves of trees and pools of water into which you can dip your toes. Details of Cincinnati’s newest park, part of the long-awaited Banks project, became clearer Thursday at the unveiling of the designers’ model amid champagne-sipping members of the Women’s Committee of Cincinnati Riverfront Park. The group has raised nearly $500,000 as an endowment for maintaining the park, said Debbie Oliver, co-chairwoman. Designer Alistair MacIntosh, of Sasaki Associates, the Watertown, Mass., firm planning the park, explained that the first phase will be at the eastern foot of the John A. Roebling Suspension Bridge. That’s where people will be able to walk along terraced stairs and waterfalls. The park will grow along both sides of the bridge, but will start to the east, between Main and Walnut streets. Workers are getting the site ready now before a Sept. 29 groundbreaking. The womens group continues to raise money, in part with a Penny Pond fountain that will be moved around the city so people can pitch in even a few cents. The group copied the penny-pitching idea from Central Park in New York City, Oliver said. “All the pennies,” she said, “add up to changing our landscape.”
May 22, 200817 yr I bet all the naysayers are looking at this great momentum for downtown and saying "dang, we shouldn't have moved to the burbs...honey, do you want to move down there?" pshhahahahaha.
May 23, 200817 yr uninspiring You can't really tell from that angle, but that Great Lawn that meets the water near the Roeb will be something out of this world in reality. It will definitely be one of the most picturesque places in the country, possibly the world when done.
May 23, 200817 yr Uninspiring? you can't base what it will really look like from a model sitting in a room lol.
May 23, 200817 yr I like it but I'm surprised the photographer just couldn't walk to the other side of the table and get a better shot.
May 23, 200817 yr I bet all the naysayers are looking at this great momentum for downtown and saying "dang, we shouldn't have moved to the burbs...honey, do you want to move down there?" pshhahahahaha. You'd be surprised. I just read on a UC sports forum that the Banks and the Streetcar are the biggest boondoggles he's ever witnessed. He also went on to say that OTR is for poor people only b/c it is close to goverment services.
May 23, 200817 yr uninspiring You can't really tell from that angle, but that Great Lawn that meets the water near the Roeb will be something out of this world in reality. It will definitely be one of the most picturesque places in the country, possibly the world when done. that picture is inspiring, the model, not so much
May 23, 200817 yr Here is the blurb on the project from Sasaki's website: http://www.sasaki.com/what/works.cgi?fid=262&page=2 Includes two pics that I dont think I have seen before. I love the pic that highlights the Suspension Bridge in the background. The Bridge is what is going to make the riverfront park and the Banks special. Even if the Banks and the park are poorly designed (I dont believe that they will be), the fact that the Bridge is right in the center of both developments will make it standout from other run-of-the-mill planned neighborhoods. The Bridge is going to cut right through the park. That will look really cool. The other thing that I like is that they are apparently going to build a wall between the river and the park similar to the serpentine wall. The fact that no wall is in place on that part of the river currently really makes the area look shabby. Right now it is just a muddy riverbank with scruffy trees and bushes. If you go to just about any other urban area that has a riverfront (the Chicago River, westside of Manhatten, downtown Pittsburgh etc.) there is a wall, rather than a natural shoreline along the river. It makes a huge difference in the appearance and usefullness of the riverfront.
May 23, 200817 yr The whole place will look awesome with those caps added. I wish there were some renderings of different angles of the caps. The whole banks site is about as big as downtown dayton lol.
May 23, 200817 yr I agree, with the bridge there, they can only mess it up so much. Although I'm a bit worried about them tarting up the bridge. Overall I think the bridges are a huge reason why the other parks work well. The transition between the serpentine wall and Bicentenial Commons under the L&N bridge couldn't be better and the Big Mac offers another divide, shade, and cover during rain. And surprisingly it's not too loud. Given the topography and flood walls the Kentucky side doesn't have that advantage.
May 23, 200817 yr ^^^I find that site plan interesting on Sasaki's website. In that they are including buildings on 3 of the 4 caps over FWW. The park is going to be amazing though...the stage/concert area right next to GABP seems to be the best possible idea for that spot. It's even better than a building there if you ask me.
May 24, 200817 yr Overall I think the bridges are a huge reason why the other parks work well. The transition between the serpentine wall and Bicentenial Commons under the L&N bridge couldn't be better and the Big Mac offers another divide, shade, and cover during rain. And surprisingly it's not too loud. Given the topography and flood walls the Kentucky side doesn't have that advantage. Agreed. I do wish that KY would add a serpentine wall of their own though. That would work wonders for their riverfront's appearance.
May 24, 200817 yr Jimmy James, yes and not only that...that huge grassy ravine that runs across their entire riverfront has potential to house huge gardens or really cool rock formations and walls. IF Ovation gets built, something will probably be done to compliment what will happen on Ovation's waterfront. If cards are played right, Cincy and NKY could very well have the most attractive riverfront in the country. Where else can you find hills that haven't been touched like ours?
May 24, 200817 yr ^ Well, I know that Newport and Covington were in the process of studying a riverfront park (the Licking, not the Ohio) last year. I haven't heard anything about that in a long time, but if it gets built, there's a good chance that beautifying the KY bank of the Ohio will be next.
May 24, 200817 yr If cards are played right, Cincy and NKY could very well have the most attractive riverfront in the country. I completely agree...we could also have the most actively used major river in terms of recreational use. This riverfront park has proposed to have water taxis from Cincinnati's riverfront to Nky (which would be really cool). Nky needs to move forward with some riverfront parks of their own and then work on some sort of boardwalk/riverwalk type thing. These all need to be linked with one another for bicyclists, runners, and walkers creating a large scale river trail system with the various parks being the hubs of the system. The Central Riverfront Park, in Cincy, essentially completes the Cincinnati riverfront (sans the industrial Western riverfront). It will now be up to the Nky people to complete theirs to make this a truly spectacular riverfront on both sides of the river.
May 24, 200817 yr ^ I think Covington's historic district with the mansions directly facing the river and the walkways around that neighborhood is a fantastic slice of the riverfront. There's not much hope for anything other than a renewed Covington landing for downtown Covington, and Newport has the Levee. So other than the proposed space for Ovation, there's not a lot of room for NKY to improve its riverfront (aided by the fact that they havent had two large mud pits for a riverfront for over a decade...)
May 25, 200817 yr ^ True, Newport has the Levee, but it's not on the riverfront really. Beyond it is "Riverboat Row" a road that is often closed for weekend festivals and a relatively unattractive slope between it and the river. I'd like to see that road closed permanently (except perhaps for occasional truck access for the riverboats), and have the usage switched to bikes and pedestrians. I'm not sure what can be done with that grassy slope, since it ends up underwater occasionally. Copying Cincinnati's serpentine wall is probably the cleanest solution. I love Rando's idea for a boardwalk, though. That would be very unique within the region and could really increase the space that Newport has for events like Goettafest. My biggest hope for Ovation is the pedestrian bridge over the Licking between Newport and Covington. That would encourage people to walk the KY riverfront, which would in turn encourage KY to improve on what they have.
May 25, 200817 yr What's up with Dayton, KY just down the river...they're getting a huge makeover right with highrises and such?
May 25, 200817 yr ^Yeah, they've got a project called Manhattan Harbor that they are working on. It's going to be enormous if fully built out. Unfortunately, there's only one easy way into Dayton, and that's via RT8 through Bellevue, which is already pretty congested. I've been thinking that there needs to be a bridge over the Ohio from the east end of Dayton, but I don't see that as being realistically attainable.
May 27, 200817 yr $100M to transform 'the south coast of Ohio' http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/crpark0527.aspx
May 27, 200817 yr >Perhaps one of Jmeck's tunnels would be better for Dayton. On a map the obvious crossing point is at Delta Ave., slightly east of the east side of Dayton, but I have to wonder how steep of a toll would be necessary to fund such a bridge. Obviously it would create a sort of direct link between Hyde Park & Mt. Lookout and Dayton & Bellevue. And obviously it would only need to be two lanes. I doubt, especially with a toll, that it would attract a lot of "through" traffic, although that would be the primary concern given the awful state of affairs in Bellevue and Dayton presently. Here's the outrageous metro or commuter rail tunnel scheme I penned a year or so ago: Back on topic: I'm assuming that the large concrete wall along the river which supported the last function riverfront rail line will be replaced. Along with the lack of trees this is the prime aesthetic problem with the riverfront as viewed from Kentucky currently.
May 27, 200817 yr On a map the obvious crossing point is at Delta Ave., slightly east of the east side of Dayton, but I have to wonder how steep of a toll would be necessary to fund such a bridge. Obviously it would create a sort of direct link between Hyde Park & Mt. Lookout and Dayton & Bellevue. And obviously it would only need to be two lanes. I doubt, especially with a toll, that it would attract a lot of "through" traffic, although that would be the primary concern given the awful state of affairs in Bellevue and Dayton presently. Exactly. I had always envisioned the bridge connecting to Delta. But, like you said, I can't imagine there would be a ton of traffic there, outside of people from Dayton and Bellevue commuting to Ohio jobs. It would make a nice bypass when there's a wreck on 471 or columbia parkway, but probably not worth it. If Manhattan Harbor takes off, and that's a HUGE if, there might be more demand, but this is a conversation that is probably best had in a decade or so. I love that tunnel, by the way.
May 27, 200817 yr It appears as though the park plan includes a realignment of Mehring way between Elm and Joe Nuxhall. Seems to me that the first phase of the park construction is dependant upon this realignment. Does anybody know if they are going to do all of that roadwork at once? It doesn't make sense to do that work in sections per each of the park phases...does it? You would end up with a road to nowhere. But at the same time that would eliminate quite a bit of that wonderful riverfront parking to the west of the suspension bridge.
June 20, 200816 yr Does anyone know if this project will be out of the floodplain? I know that The Banks will be, but I've never been sure if this park will be elevated to the same level or designed to take the occasional flood. The reason I ask is because I'm in Chicago right now, and they have this amazing beach on the lake, which appears to be man-made. We could do something similar at the riverfront park, provided that a flood doesn't carry away the sand we'd need to truck in. They have tons of sand volleyball courts up here and the whole beach was packed, even on a Thursday afternoon. I didn't walk all the way down to the lake in that area, but along most of the shore there is a five foot drop from the land to the water, so I don't think the beach actually connects with the lake. Yes, they have Lake Michigan which resembles an ocean and we have the Ohio River which, quite frankly, doesn't. But it didn't seem like anyone was getting in the water here, so maybe that doesn't matter. They were just enjoying the sun and the sand. Such a beach could be a very popular spot in the summer for sunbathers in Cincinnati, since there really isn't anything like it around, and it could be incorporated easily with the splash park that I believe is already part of the Central Riverfront park plan. Also, it would keep the new park from feeling like an extension of Sawyer Point.
June 20, 200816 yr I cant imagine that that would actually work, at least not in true "beach" fashion. The river just doesnt have the "bathing" appeal that the lakefront obviously has. It would seem that the first time the river floods i would imagine all the sand would be gone when the waters receded. I think you have to have a system to control the edge of the river bank which is why a wall similar to the serpentine wall...but significantly shorter would be very nice. It would leave the water accessible and maintain a very clean boundary. From the renderings i get the feeling that this is the plan.
June 20, 200816 yr ^Exactly why I was wondering if the park itself would be truely out of the flood plain. If it isn't, this wouldn't even be worth talking about. And I really wouldn't expect anyone to go swimming. "The beach" would be an enormous sandbox, more or less, physically separated from the river (perhaps by a serpentine wall), but giving people a place to lay out, play volleyball, etc. A group of kids at this beach were no where near the water, but were having a blast anyway making one of the biggest sandcastles (and corresponding enormous sand pit) that I've ever seen. It just got me thinking that the closest beach to Cincinnati is about 4-5 hours away by car. If we could recreate a little piece of it, giving people as much of the beach experience as possible, it could be a popular spot for people who can't afford to travel often, a unique and interesting area in a landlocked city of the midwest. Or a collosal failure, I suppose.
June 20, 200816 yr The used to do a "beach" along the base of the serpentine wall in the summer for a week or two. It doesn't work any other time of year because the river jumps up and down and obviously it's colder.
June 20, 200816 yr ^ Really? I don't remember that. That would have been cool. I was thinking of something at the top of the wall, but that sounds like it was interesting. Too bad I missed it.
June 20, 200816 yr Yeah the news would go down and do the weather report from it. There would be kids building sand castles and that kind of stuff. People do swim in the river in August and September when it gets clearer.
June 20, 200816 yr ^That does sound cool. I know that people used to swim in the river regularly, because there are lots of turn-of-the-century pictures of places like Ludlow Lagoon and the original Manhattan Harbor floating around. I thought that was a thing of the distant past, but maybe I was wrong.
June 20, 200816 yr Eh, the water is fine to swim in! We ski, tube, and knee board in it all the time. Jmeck is right, it is cleaner/clearer in the late summer months though.
June 20, 200816 yr The park slopes from the river up to the realigned Mehring Way, I believe. So some if not most of it would be in the floodplain.
June 21, 200816 yr Toledo tried the big sandbox near downtown (mostly sand volley courts) and it was/is a joke.
June 24, 200816 yr http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/06/23/daily8.html?jst=b_ln_hl "The new riverfront park being built in conjunction with (Phase 1 of The Banks) should be finished around that same time, said Steve Schuckman, superintendent of parks. In fact, the Cincinnati Park Board has a groundbreaking scheduled for 2 p.m. Sept. 29 to officially begin work on the park, he said. The first phase of the park's construction will cost $32 million, and officials have about $18 million in place so far, he said." I hadn't seen this info before about the groundbreaking and financial update (or that they are officially being built in conjunction), sorry if it's old info
June 24, 200816 yr Toledo tried the big sandbox near downtown (mostly sand volley courts) and it was/is a joke. There are some sand volleyball courts in Sawyer Point. Don't know how much it matters, just noting.
June 25, 200816 yr ^That does sound cool. I know that people used to swim in the river regularly, because there are lots of turn-of-the-century pictures of places like Ludlow Lagoon and the original Manhattan Harbor floating around. I thought that was a thing of the distant past, but maybe I was wrong. Ludlow Lagoon was not on the river as I understand it. Near but not on.
June 25, 200816 yr Really? It was long before my time, so that's possible. I just assumed that it was part of the river, or at least using river water, since it was in Ludlow, is no longer there, and was called a lagoon. I'd love to know more about it though... /EDIT: and now I do: http://www.kenton.lib.ky.us/gen/kenton/ludlow/places2.html
July 4, 200816 yr Very interesting story...could end up being a very noticeable element of the CRP. Revolutionary War soldier buried near GABP? http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080703/NEWS01/307030085/1055/NEWS
July 25, 200816 yr Rather bike? Parks plan adds riverfront cycle shop http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/07/28/tidbits1.html "Cincinnati's Central Riverfront Park is being modified to include a bike shop where cyclists can rent wheels and lockers, get their bicycles repaired and even take a shower after a morning commute....
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