Rando I'll bet you a thousand dollars it will be completed in no less than 2years. I don't have a thousand bucks to throw away but I know a sure bet when I see one...

To all of those complaining about how long it will take to get this started and done:

 

I think you're overlooking a few critical things. One, the project involves several levels of government, a park board, designers, and public input. It's gonna take a while to sort all that out. Second, and more importantly, this project involves slightly changing the course of a river. It's not something done lightly. The Army Corps has had to study water flow, flood scenarios, the effect of bank changes on erosion, and the effect on river traffic. It's quite a bit more than a park.

^Yeah, I can be patient.  I'd love to have it done tomorrow (hence my "build it now!" post), but I'm planning to be in Cincinnati for another forty or fifty years - I can wait a couple more to have this done right.

 

Assuming, of course, that those are two years of activity - that activity can be doing studies and working out financing and finalizing plans - but if it's two years of dormancy, that's just more of the same...

^One of my relatives works with the Army Corps of Engineers, they are so slow at getting the simplest things done it is simply beyond belief.  For example, just getting concrete pylons installed in rivers for ships and barges to tie up on takes YEARS.  These are just the same kind of concrete cyclinders you see supporting highway bridges.  It should be pointed out as well that the navigation channel will not be affected in the least by this park. 

 

I am baffled as to why they are making this park more work than is necessary.  Just build a fairly simple park now and over time improve it according to how it actually ends up being used.  It doesn't have to be everything to everyone all at once.  We already have other good riverfront parks, all with their own tone and uses, even though this is a higher profile location, there is no need to overdo it.

 

 

 

 

^ As far as the navigation channel being changed in the least, it was my impression that that's not true. That's not what I was told by a Corps engineer at a meeting many months ago. My hazy recollection was that it had something to do with building piers into the river and the interaction with the bridges. At the same meeting I attended, representatives from shipping concerns and B&B riverboats seemed highly concerned about this very thing. The guy from B&B said navigating the bridges is already difficult and expresed concern that this would make it worse.

I disagree, I have worked on the towboats and the ones that travel past Cincinnati max out at 3X5 barge tows.  Virtually all barges are 200X35, meaning the size of that tow is 1,000ft.X105ft.  The narrowest bridge is the L&N, at around 425ft., the suspension bridge is over 1,000ft.  Unless something is built that extends out toward the channel and creates a swirling current there isn't going to be much of a change.  The lateral currents from the Licking are already problematic but nothing these guys don't have to deal with all the way up and down the river.  The reason I suspect why a meeting was held is because Cincinnati is well-known because of the bridges and the Licking as one of the most difficult areas to navigate on the Ohio and any change is worth talking about. 

 

 

Here are a few of the mock-ups they had at the Public Meeting on Wednesday.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If and when there's a festival, this is one example of how it would be set up.

 

Sweet Fuck - how much shit can they jam in there?  I mean, that's cool, whatever, let's get 'er done, but Holy Christ Almighty, that seems pretty feature-intensive...

Unless something is built that extends out toward the channel and creates a swirling current there isn't going to be much of a change.  The lateral currents from the Licking are already problematic but nothing these guys don't have to deal with all the way up and down the river.  The reason I suspect why a meeting was held is because Cincinnati is well-known because of the bridges and the Licking as one of the most difficult areas to navigate on the Ohio and any change is worth talking about. 

 

I've no direct experience, but I think their concerns are just what you've said -- building something out that creates a swirl in an already relatively tricky place to navigate.

Yeah... wow.  I can't tell what's what with all that going on.  But then, it's a pretty large area.  A nice overview drawing on one of those posters would have helped!

 

This may have been mentioned before, but that hypothetical festival layout makes it look like Mehring Way will be realigned.  Is that correct?

that seems pretty feature-intensive...

 

You're right. I think the designers have been influenced by current ideas in place making, specifically the Project for Public Spaces (www.pps.org). Their Power of Ten idea is that each place should have ten (or more features), and at each feature, there should be 10 things to do.

 

From The Power of Ten: Why Great Places are more than the sum of their parts:

 

That got everyone thinking about what makes great places great. It's really a matter of offering a variety of things to do in one spot -- whose quality as a place then becomes more than the sum of its parts. A park is good. A park with a fountain, playground, and popcorn vendor is better. A library across the street is even better, more so if they feature storytelling hours for kids and exhibits on local history. If there's a sidewalk café nearby, a bus stop, a bike trail, and an ice cream parlor, then you have what most people would consider a great place.

PigBoy - when I saw Mr. Vice-Mayor at dinner a week or so ago, he said yes, Mehring was going to arch the opposite way from how it arches now - arching away from the river.

Looks great until the Ohio rises...

 

Seriously though, were is all that room coming from?  Mehring Way is in the way of some of that park space from the look of the rendering.

Thanks for grabbing shots of the renderings.  I think the plan looks fantastica and let's hope it comes to fruition very soon!

Has anyone noticed the color of the Suspension Bridge in the renderings? I like it. Maybe it should be recommended to the folks across the river so we don't see " Kentucky Blue ".

 

I don't like this one. It looks like a twin of the horrid Purple People Bridge entrance.

May be wishful thinking but I'm starting to see a timeline forming:

 

Sometime between June and August 2006 -  Turning and leveling of ground east of the freedom center 

                                                              in preparation for garage construction.

 

Aug. 24 - Sept. 17 2006 :  Cirque du soleil performs at "The Banks" ( Drawing more people in 3 weeks than

                                                    the Freedom Center has in 2 years) I'm sorry I had to. :-D

 

End of September 2006 - Cirque du soleil moves out, constuction trucks move in.

 

October 2006 - Major constuction begins on the Central Riverfront Garage east of the Freedom Center

 

May 2007 - Construction begins on the section of the Central Riverfont Park

                          entitled "River Terrace Garden" directly south of GABP.

 

October 2007 - Major construction comes to a close on the Parking Garage making way for construction

                      on the section of the park south of the garage and realignment of Mehring Way to begin.

 

2009 -  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

 

Is there any chance that the site prep they do for Cirque du Soleil will be done with Tall Stacks viewing in mind?  That's the first weekend in October, and it would be very cool if that terrain were more than just a mud pit so folks could watch the ships from that space...

Riverfront park one step closer to reality

March 21, 2007 | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER

 

CINCINNATI - The federal government has given a boost to Cincinnati's dream for a riverfront park by authorizing $25 million in funding for the project.

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/03/19/daily31.html?surround=lfn

Great news!

So this area is going to be all nice and gentrified, minus the Banks... for now. It's going to leave a nice, big, empty hole for the developer to see his vision hopefully come to reality!

Well the Banks was made up of multiple components:

 

Paul Brown Stadium (completed)

Great American Ballpark (completed)

Freedom Center (completed)

Central Riverfront Park (well on its way)

Transit Center (completed)

Mixed Use Entertainment area (possible groundbreaking this fall)

 

So on the positive side...The Banks is actually about 50-60% complete already!

Erm, you might be being a bit too positive there, rando. The Banks is just the area between the stadiums.

 

You forgot FWW reconstruction.

^I know...its been a very negative week for me.  I don't feel nearly that rosey on the project, just trying to pick myself up and be positive!

 

Progression of feelings as illustrated by smileys:

:-D.....:-).....:|......:oops:.........:x...........:cry:............. :drunk:

I can see what Seicer is saying though.  The stadiums on the east and west sides will be done, FWW on the north, and the Centeral Riverfront Park on the south.  And right in the middle of all of this.... huge parking lots eagerly awaiting for the construction equipment to show up, hopefully shortly.

Rando don't ever give up that enthusiasm, we need more people like you in this metro.

Want to hear about the plans for the Cincinnati Riverfront Park?

 

Give Back Cincinnati is hosting a Community Conversation

 

  Tues, April 17th  6-8 PM

 

National Underground Railroad Freedom Center - Discovery Room

 

Steve Schuckman, the superintendent of planning and design for the park, will present the park proposal and answer questions.

 

Please RSVP at http://www.givebackcincinnati.org/events_details.asp?EventID=1127

 

 

Refreshments provided by Chic-fil-A in Tower Place Mall and Alpine Valley Water.

 

Here is a PDF document that outlines the plans for the park with colorful renderings:

 

http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/cityparks/downloads/cityparks_pdf14004.pdf

 

 

ha, those renderings are pretty terrible..get this thing going!

There are a couple of interesting things in that PDF:

 

1. It shows 3 of the 4 decks atop FWW as being built upon

 

2.  I love that riverboats can dock right there at the wharf (thus allowing Tall Stacks room for growth).  And on top of that it appears that smaller (recreation) boats will be able to dock along the entire stretch of the park, and have a direct connection into the park.

 

 

Overall it looks fantastic...and should be a GREAT addition for Cincinnati.  Its pretty darn impressive to have a 3 mile long stretch of parkland along your riverfront!  Very nice!

Oh, btw...I RSVP'ed for the event at the Freedom Center.

I agree j3.  This modernist junk will look dated in 15 years.

 

Also, I've said this a billion times, but I think the amount of parkspace is flat out excessive.  Compare the 40 acres shown with Millenium Park at 25 acres.  MP will continually draw more people than this because it has a)more tourists b)more nearby residents and c)more nearby businesses and attractions.  It's great to utilize the land in the floodplain, but the blocks above the curvilinear street (mehring?) should be developed.  Don't waste valuable land on open space.

I really hope that they keep this plan intact.  It will turn out to be an even greater addition to the riverfront than the Banks.

 

                       

               

               

               

               

               

       

       

 

                                                                                                                                              

       

                               

               

               

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

 

 

Also, I've said this a billion times, but I think the amount of parkspace is flat out excessive.  Compare the 40 acres shown with Millenium Park at 25 acres.  MP will continually draw more people than this because it has a)more tourists b)more nearby residents and c)more nearby businesses and attractions.  It's great to utilize the land in the floodplain, but the blocks above the curvilinear street (mehring?) should be developed.  Don't waste valuable land on open space.

 

Agreed...we should put as much of it as possible to apartments, condos, shopping, etc...We already have a sawyer point...I just don't see such a high demand for a park that brings no revenue for the city of cincinnati.    I honestly don't think people will drive from the suburbs to go to this park.  it will be a ghost park

I don't understand the whole mentality of doing everything to appease the suburbanites and drawing them in to visit the city.  A park offers much more than just a place for recreation and green space.  It offers an amenity that can not be matched in the suburbs...thus giving city living a comparative advantage over suburban living.

 

I think that the park could be shrunk where the curved part of Mehring Way is, but other than that I think that it will be a GREAT addition...and sure the link is slim, but it is a link....the link between Sawyer Point and Bicentennial Commons is also slim but it gets the job done.  I imagine that this link will be FAR better than the link I mention between Sawyer and Bicentennial.

 

Needless to say...I don't envision a 'ghost park' at all.

This will be on the scale of the Louisville Waterfront Park project. It has grown in three stages and has now replaced what was junk yards, industrial decay, and shacks. You have sprawling green spaces, water features, playgrounds, and the like -- that may seem vacant to some, but provides solitude, fun and enjoyment to others. In addition, green spaces help reduce pollution, create excellent visual barriers and gateways, and provide much needed shade and color from the concrete gray jungle that is downtown.

 

The inclusion of a "T" that runs from the waterfront to downtown is also an added benefit. It acts as a wayfinder of sorts, and is akin to an entry point.

I imagine that this link will be FAR better than the link I mention between Sawyer and Bicentennial.

 

There is minimal design intention shown in the renderings, hence the "missing" link.

 

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

 

This will be on the scale of the Louisville Waterfront Park project. It has grown in three stages and has now replaced what was junk yards, industrial decay, and shacks. You have sprawling green spaces, water features, playgrounds, and the like -- that may seem vacant to some, but provides solitude, fun and enjoyment to others. In addition, green spaces help reduce pollution, create excellent visual barriers and gateways, and provide much needed shade and color from the concrete gray jungle that is downtown.

 

The inclusion of a "T" that runs from the waterfront to downtown is also an added benefit. It acts as a wayfinder of sorts, and is akin to an entry point.

 

I have to agree with Seicer.  This is going to be the best riverfront park in the US if they build it per the renderings. Even better than that Point Park in Pittsburgh...its tough to beat a Dan Kiley design, but this park is going to be that good.

 

I am not a fan of that Louisville park as it is is too hard for me, too avant garde, and cut off from the city, while this one is integrated into the city, via that T shape, and will be pleasant and "parklike", while still having that urban edge feeling with the banks buildings framing the park, and then the downtown skyscrapers towering behind it all. 

 

 

 

Well, you have the massive RiverPark Place now being constructed to the northeast of the park, which is adding 620+ condos and lofts, plus a marina and businesses. Other developments to the southwest include the new warehouse to condo/loft conversions, and the new skyscrapers for residential towers. The park does generate a lot of business.

Jeffrey: That 'weak link', is that part of the project or does the riverfront park end there? I could see them obtaining an Army Corps of Engineering permit to fill it in slightly to allow for additional park space. Many cities are doing that, reclaiming what the Ohio has taken over the years due to dredging, in an effort to regain their riverfronts (i.e. Ashland, Kentucky; Louisville, Kentucky; etc.)

Jeffrey: That 'weak link', is that part of the project or does the riverfront park end there? I could see them obtaining an Army Corps of Engineering permit to fill it in slightly to allow for additional park space. Many cities are doing that, reclaiming what the Ohio has taken over the years due to dredging, in an effort to regain their riverfronts (i.e. Ashland, Kentucky; Louisville, Kentucky; etc.)

 

That part of river is a two-lane road with sidewalk space.

Is anyone else going to the meeting tomorrow??  I will be attending (and dragging my gf along).  Just wanted to know if I should expect to see any other UO forumers.

i won't be there, but enjoy those waffle fries

A couple of notes from the mtg. last night:

 

1. The outdoor performance area is planned to be 3,000-4,000 seats.  Right now it is planned for the eastern side of Roebling and north of Mehring, but it could be moved to the opposite side next to PBS should they need more space to accommodate the seating and acoustics they desire.

 

2. There is an overlook area just south of GABP that will include 'family-sized' bench swings.  There will be a lot of them and are quite popular in other parks.  This will probably be the best spot to relax and view the river.

 

3. They have been working with AIG and plan to start/complete the park's 1st phase in conjunction with The Banks' 1st phase.  The Banks 1st phase will be the eastern blocks next to GABP, and likewise the park's 1st phase will be the performance are and restaurant.

 

4. We discussed aspects of festivals...and it was said that Mehring Way will be designed to accomodate these events and then the park will serve as support facilities and expanded area to meander.  They also mentioned that should the events be moved to the park and off of 5th street...that Oktoberfest could then be increased to a 9 day event instead of the weekend event it currently is.

 

5. There is a website that I was unaware of www.crpark.org

 

6. There is enough funding currently in place for the first phase and possibly second phase of the park to progress immediately.  And they are planning on the 1st phase (along with The Banks) to break ground this fall and be completed in 2 yrs.  The entire park will take about 10 yrs to complete.

 

7. I brought up 'the weak link' and he asked how I knew to ask that question (lol).  He said that currently that is the most challenging component of the project.  They are still working very hard on this aspect, but do have a few options to make a nice connection to the other riverfront parks.

 

8. Apparently $300,000 of archaelogy work has been done on the site, and they plan to implement those findings and history into the park.  There will be an area that pays tribute to the location of where the city first rose.  This area will be immediately west of Roebling and immediately south of Mehring.

 

9. It was also mentioned that this park will have longer/later hours than probably any other park in Cincinnati.  They are treating this as the urban park it is, and they are comparing their efforts to that of Millenium Park in Chicago.  This is the type of park they are striving for, and are using Millenium as their benchmark (but obviously for a fraction of the cost).  They want this to be a destination park, and a park that will serve as a place of leisure for the residents in The Banks neighborhood.

 

If there is anything that someone still has questions about, I can probably give you more details.  I just don't want to go into everything right now, but we did go into detail about every component of the park.  So if you have a particular question about an area you are unsure of...let 'er rip, and I'll do my best to answer!

Thanks for the update Rando.

 

Check out the presentation on the park website. I like the Riverfront Stadium commemoration.

Good Research Rando

Ditto!

 

This bike lane looks to be a bit congested (presentation). Looks like we need to rip it out and put in an elevated bike freeway!

^Oh...that reminds me.

 

They mentioned that they are looking into a bike rental/storage/repair facility (similar to the one at Millenium Park) for the park.  They said that they believe the interest is there, and that should they implement this into the park it will be at the corner of Main & Mehring.  It would be built into the support structure for the performance area.  This would be used for those wanting to utilize the Ohio River Bike Trail.  On the Cincinnati side alone there will be roughly a 3 mile long riverfront park corridor...then it is then possible to utilize the Purple People Bridge to connect with a future Nky riverfront park corridor.  So even without the Nky portion...the bike trail will be quite nice and travel through 3 world class parks!

 

With the features and components they are proposing...I feel they're creating a very usable/user friendly park that will be fantastic!

I don't understand the whole mentality of doing everything to appease the suburbanites

 

I agree with UncleRando 100%. Cincinnati has the pieces almost in place, now lets start doing things for people who live here; parks, street cars, bike paths and public art. Once more of these things are in finished I think people will be flocking here to live and work, never mind visit.

Oh and this was tongue in cheek but would actually be a good place for my <a href="http://5chw4r7z.com/archives/2007/march_2007.html#03_15_2007">flying pig in geosynchronous stationary orbit</a>.

 

 

Thanks a bunch for that intel, Rando! 

 

A bit on those family size swings.  This sounds like a minor thing but they really are quite popular.  They have them at that Riverscape park in Dayton, and they are used quite a bit, especially when there is an event there.  It is small amenities like this that help make a park a memorable and pleasant place people will want to come back to.

 

Now, this....

 

Apparently $300,000 of archaelogy work has been done on the site, and they plan to implement those findings and history into the park.  There will be an area that pays tribute to the location of where the city first rose.  This area will be immediately west of Roebling and immediately south of Mehring.

 

...., this, for a history buff like myself, is really exciting, that they are going to do this work and also interpret the findings on site.

 

(good to hear about that "missing link" too...thanks !)