I was wondering if anyone has ever come across information about 'Deer Creek Tunnel' - I came across it on the www.Cincinnati-transit.net website (http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/deercreek.html) Apparently, it was only partially dug, and the north and south portals were covered up during the I-71 project.

 

The only other reference that I've come across so far is a map from the Library of Congress' site: http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?gmd:12:./temp/~ammem_2NE4:

 

Are there any rail road enthusiasts out there that might know more?

 

many thanks!

Luke

A straight-line rail connection between downtown and uptown has been a dream for well over a hundred years. We tried to revive it in the late-Nineties with the proposed Mt. Auburn Tunnel for light rail. It would have been a good thing -- eight minutes travel-time between Fountain Square and Jefferson & Corry. With the I-71, I-75 and Eastern Corridor Lines all passing through the Mt. Auburn Tunnel on their way to Idlewild where the lines would have branched (see cincinnati-transit.net above), you would have had a train every three minutes or so at peak -- effectively "transit on demand." It would change how our city functions. Living and working in downtown and uptown would become, by far, the most convenient of any place in the region.

 

I believe that the Mt. Auburn Tunnel will come back someday.

i may be wrong but when driving 71-N you can see the remains of a tunnel on the right side under the McMillan overpass. It is a large brick tunnel that is about thirty feet from what i can see.

the important thing is not to confuse the cl&n tunnel in walnut hills with the deer creek tunnel which goes from the top of the hill down to around where staples is. I think the south portal is under the liberty overpass of gilbert behind the trees at the back of the parking lot opposite the greyhound building but I've never actually gone to see just researched its location. you can find the entrance for the cl&n tunnel I wanna say near lincoln after crossing from corryville to walnut hills. you have to know what you're looking for though, its not sealed up either atleast is wasn't when I went a couple years back. but deer creek is. deer creek was only completed 3500 feet in one direction and 2500 feet from another and needs about 3000 more feet to meet the two digs. its masonry and still owned by the city if I'm not mistaken. it could probably even be completed since its wide enough for two 6' gauge trains and light rails only require 4.5' gauge. cl&n was only a single track width though.  I've always though when we get our street cars completed how cool it would be to use the same track for at grade light rail since they run on the same gause and use electric and could be equipped that way then use the deer creek tunnel to get to walnut hills but thats a distant dream I fear. theres also a couple other tunnels in the area one near river road out from the city a bit I think and the other up 74 not far from cheviot but they were filled in either by water of man. I can't quite remember the name of those I'll look it up and find it again for this post though. good thread idea archlvf

That tunnel and related Air Line (or was it Bee Line?)  railroad gets mentioned a bit in Henry Varnum Poores' American Railway Journal.

 

The intent was to build a railroad with as much as a straight line connection to Cincinnati and Dayton as possible, as a competetitor with the CH&D, which took a more indirect route. 

 

As part of this a tunnel was proposed as a more direct route out of the the basin.

 

Poore's journal was a source of business intel for investors in railroad stocks (the forerunner to Standard & Poore's stock index), and he advised against this route due to cost and questionable assumptions about traffic.

 

I think that the line did try to build that tunnel but went broke doing so.  It was eventually completed to Dayton, but via the Mill Creek Valley, and as the "Short Line", which became part of the Big Four.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

the important thing is not to confuse the cl&n tunnel in walnut hills with the deer creek tunnel which goes from the top of the hill down to around where staples is.

 

Yeah, I think the tunnel that can be seen from 71 under mcmillan is the first part of a tunnel that is for the old CN&L, and is still intact (its pretty cool, and easy to get to. It stretches from the intersection of Oak and May, to roughly Mcmillan.

 

The Deer Creek tunnel has supposedly caved in at the North and South portals (I had read that the south entrance was farther north than liberty - closer to the dorchester street area - but ill look into it), and may have been covered up by 71. Whats really interesting, is that they also started construction at several points midway - digging straight down at three points in walnut hills, and then after hitting a depth of up to 200', starting to dig in either direction. Supposedly, none of these sections connect. I really like the idea that there is a man-hole cover somewhere under a few feet of dirt, that drops into a shaft 200' deep, down to a cave-like chunk of tunnel. (maybe im dreaming).... I'll let you know if I find it :).

 

below is the CN&L tunnel:

That subway page was pretty interesting, don't really see any major rail project happening though.

 

    Just to repeat, there are TWO tunnel systems. One is the CL&N tunnel, and the other is the Deer Creek Tunnel.

 

The CL&N system consists of a short underpass under McMillan Street together with a longer tunnel. It was originally a narrow gauge (3' wide) railroad with double tracks. It was converted to standard gauge (4'-8 1/2" wide) railroad with double tracks, but due to the narrow tunnel, the tracks were too close together. After two trains sideswiped each other, it was converted to gaunlet track - two sets of tracks that actually overlapped. Of course, only one train could pass through the tunnel at a time, but there was no switching involved. The potential use of the CL&N right of way for light rail comes up from time to time, and the narrow tunnel is still an issue.

 

    The Deer Creek Tunnel is a deep tunnel by comparison. It was started at both ends and at three intermediate points. The south portal was uncovered during construction of I-71 in 1966, and presumably, intentionally filled or collapsed. There is a map and photographs in the book "Narrow Guage in Ohio" by John Hauck. The map shows that the tunnel was between Elsinore and Blair. And yes, it would be neat to find it. I wonder if there is any construction equipment remaining in the tunnel?

^That's right, the portal sections at both ends are filled but possibly one of the center sections survives.  This would have been one of the greatest urban tunnels of the era had it been completed, it was definitely big-time.  The CL&N route was the compromise that this earlier tunnel sought to avoid.  Even though the CL&N traveled in and out of downtown, as I understand it it never functioned as much more than a spur whereas this deeper one would have been a high speed mainline.  A straight route with a very gradual grade that would have created a much different city than we know today.  Perhaps Union Terminal would have never happened and almost surely a more substantial Ohio River bridge would have been built in the L&N's place (and maybe sooner), maybe tracks laid across Over-the-Rhine to the Mill Creek area.  This tunnel did precede virtually every "old" building surviving in the city today so there's just no telling.   

 

A deep transit tunnel built today in a similar alignment with no stations would be perfect for commuter rail or light rail and would beat I-71 travel times all the time.  Trains could travel at 60mph in the tunnel for several miles.  Much of the cost of transit tunneling is the stations themselves, the light rail tunnels in Minneapolis were apparently very easily constructed because they have no stations.  A crew of 30 manning a tunnel boring machine instead of thousands of immigrants with hand tools.  In a dream scenario there would be both the Mt. Auburn tunnel & related UC alignment and an express bypass such as this for suburban trains. 

 

Montreal has an express tunnel like this under its big central hill connecting the CBD with northern neighborhoods.  Its 3 mile tunnel was apparently built in 1910 and has a commuter rail service:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deux-Montagnes_Line_%28AMT%29

 

     

Figure a new tunnel at $10 - 12,000 per lineal foot and a deep underground station at $25,000,000.

A piece of equipment fell into the tunnel today:

 

 

Actually probably not into the tunnel but the roof probably collapsed about 30 or 40 feet below the surface.  They're bringing in a crane tomorrow morning to fish it out.  This happened in the middle of the night while this was parked so nobody was hurt. 

From a source working on the site:

 

The hole is rather deep.  Columns on the east and west sides of the trackhoe are the only things holding it up.  The trackhoe could fall approx 10 to 15 feet before it hit bottom.  Has definitely made this last week interesting.