Posted December 1, 200717 yr http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2007/11/668_euclid_in_line_for_11_mill.html 668 Euclid in line for $1.1 million loan by Michelle Jarboe November 30, 2007 The developer hoping to rehab downtown Cleveland's old Atrium Office Plaza could be eligible for $1.1 million in loans from Cuyahoga County. That's in addition to $16.4 million in state tax credits already earmarked for the empty complex, which could become a retail and residential project within the next few years....
December 1, 200717 yr Great news! And very good research and reporting! Congrats to Michelle Jarboe for a good article and for sharing good news. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 11, 200717 yr This would be the best place for an medical mart,as it is within distance of the convention center.
December 11, 200717 yr what? ... where is the convention center going to be located?? besides that, I also think it's a good location ... right on Euclid Avenue
January 2, 200817 yr Does anyone have the crain's article with Doug Price regarding 668? It starts out with : Developer Doug Price is lining up some surprises as he plans the makeover of the dilapidated, boarded-up Atrium Office Plaza at 668 Euclid Ave. in downtown Cleveland.
January 2, 200817 yr Sure, punch. Price plans $65M revamp of Euclid Ave. Atrium site By STAN BULLARD 4:30 am, December 24, 2007 Developer Doug Price is lining up some surprises as he plans the makeover of the dilapidated, boarded-up Atrium Office Plaza at 668 Euclid Ave. in downtown Cleveland into 225 apartments and updated retail space as part of a $65 million project. Besides a deal to purchase the Atrium building from the Goldberg family, Mr. Price said he has agreed to buy the adjoining Dollar Bank Building, 614 Euclid, in order to demolish the five-story structure to create a pedestrian plaza between the Atrium building and the nearby Colonial Marketplace.
January 2, 200817 yr Thanks Avogadro! I guess this article was posted before....looks like the suprise was that K&D ain't so good at urban spaces
January 15, 200817 yr K&D group will be appearing before the Cleveland Design Review committee and City Planning Commission this Thursday at 1:30 in City Hall room 514. This will be an information only presentation regarding 668 and the demolition of the dollar bank building. As a member of HGN design review (which the building exists in) we can partipate in the discussion but have no vote. I believe these are open to the public if anyone wants to see what is going on.
January 16, 200817 yr Thanks for the heads-up! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 17, 200817 yr So after returning from the City Design Review I have some comments on this. First off, it really is an impressive project. Though I was a little disappointed that Sandvick is no longer the architect (no idea what happened), Berardi Partners out of Columbus is running this now. This place when finished will have between 225 and 250 residences. Some on the 3rd floor over where the water tower now stands will even have private patios. There will be 3 atriums inside the building and is pretty much all retail on the 1st floor. Price mentioned trying to attract service geared retail for the 3,000 or so residents in the area (for someone who lives in this area this makes me happy). Also, currently the building is missing about a half floor that used to be in the front... it will be rebuilt including restoring the original cornice. I know there was also a lot of debate on the historic merits of the prospect side of this building. It is indeed a historic building. It housed the Prospect Theatre and apparently still has the original theatre hallway (which connects the buildings), that they are planning on restoring. Again this is really impressive, wait till you see plans / renderings / the model (sorry mayday i don't have a lapel pin that doubles as a camera), except... the demolition of the dollar bank building. Personally, I'm not buying it. Essentially they want to get rid of it to create a ramp to go into the building basement and create 130 additional parking spaces. Please don't tell me that the exact same thing can't be done by going through the 668 service entrance on the prospect side of the garage that goes with this building. They talked about a "green space" for residents. rrriiiigggghhttt, this thing is a concrete plaza with a big ramp, and a couple trees. Really what they want is to open the area for more windos on the ground level retail side. They think they can do the same thing with the colonial arcade, but I'm not sure they are aware that the colonial arcade is on the national historic register AS IS, so it is going to be EXTREMELY difficult to alter that building in any way, including that odd jet out where continental used to be. I don't' know, I just don't think I'm interested in losing the street presence of a building just for a concrete ramp. But all in all... it's pretty impressive. Oh yeah, assuming they clear all their hurdles they want to get moving asap and be finished with all exterior work in 08 so they can be working indoors by next winter. work on the Terra cotta alone is going to cost some 5 mil.
January 17, 200817 yr "sorry mayday i don't have a lapel pin that doubles as a camera" You have failed me, foolish mortal. ;-) clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
January 17, 200817 yr So after returning from the City Design Review I have some comments on this. First off, it really is an impressive project. Though I was a little disappointed that Sandvick is no longer the architect (no idea what happened), Berardi Partners out of Columbus is running this now. This place when finished will have between 225 and 250 residences. Some on the 3rd floor over where the water tower now stands will even have private patios. There will be 3 atriums inside the building and is pretty much all retail on the 1st floor. Price mentioned trying to attract service geared retail for the 3,000 or so residents in the area (for someone who lives in this area this makes me happy). Also, currently the building is missing about a half floor that used to be in the front... it will be rebuilt including restoring the original cornice. I know there was also a lot of debate on the historic merits of the prospect side of this building. It is indeed a historic building. It housed the Prospect Theatre and apparently still has the original theatre hallway (which connects the buildings), that they are planning on restoring. Again this is really impressive, wait till you see plans / renderings / the model (sorry mayday i don't have a lapel pin that doubles as a camera), except... the demolition of the dollar bank building. Personally, I'm not buying it. Essentially they want to get rid of it to create a ramp to go into the building basement and create 130 additional parking spaces. Please don't tell me that the exact same thing can't be done by going through the 668 service entrance on the prospect side of the garage that goes with this building. They talked about a "green space" for residents. rrriiiigggghhttt, this thing is a concrete plaza with a big ramp, and a couple trees. Really what they want is to open the area for more windos on the ground level retail side. They think they can do the same thing with the colonial arcade, but I'm not sure they are aware that the colonial arcade is on the national historic register AS IS, so it is going to be EXTREMELY difficult to alter that building in any way, including that odd jet out where continental used to be. I don't' know, I just don't think I'm interested in losing the street presence of a building just for a concrete ramp. But all in all... it's pretty impressive. Oh yeah, assuming they clear all their hurdles they want to get moving asap and be finished with all exterior work in 08 so they can be working indoors by next winter. work on the Terra cotta alone is going to cost some 5 mil. How did the planning commission react to the demolition? I'm assuming they approached the commission to test the waters on whether or not they'd be able to do it. Otherwise, thanks for the update!
January 17, 200817 yr it was an inormation only presentation, so it wasn't too in depth with questions comments. I believe they meet with City Planning commision tomorrow, and it some point they are going to have to deal with the landmark commission. I think... actually know, they are going to get some resistance on that part.
January 17, 200817 yr Wow, thanks for the run-down on the plans. Big thumbs down on the Dollar Bank demo, but maybe they'll yield to the predicted resistance. Have they actually closed on the building yet? Any chance getting some early approvals are contingencies, or are these guys committed to getting it done now?
January 17, 200817 yr Haven't closed yet. They should in February. They listed about 8 different places they are getting financing from, which has slowed the process. But they seem very comitted to this and have done a ton of work to this point so i can't see any way they don't move forward. However I'm sure a dollar bank fight could slow things down a bit. It just seems to me that they can do everything they want to do without losing that building. minus of course "Ramp Park". Really, there has to be a way to access the 668 basement from the Prospect garage side.
January 30, 200817 yr http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/01/cleveland_proposes_5_million_l.html Cleveland proposes $5 million loan to private developer by Henry Gomez January 30, 2008 Cleveland leaders want to loan more than $5 million to a private developer with plans to revive a dusty stretch of downtown. Officials with K&D Group of Willoughby have proposed transforming an old department store and office complex at 668 Euclid Ave. into upscale apartments and retail. They also want to tear down the neighboring Dollar Bank building and replace it with an outdoor pedestrian plaza...
January 30, 200817 yr The windows on 668 Euclid are enormous- those could be some really awesome units when this is all finished. This was brought up in the whole Breuer tower debate, but it's great that for a complicated facade restoration/interior gut job like this, so much of the budget is going to be going into the hands of local workers and not into building materials imported from outside the area.
January 30, 200817 yr And regarding the two plazas intended for 668 and Ameritrust: I think they may play an integral part if connecting Euclid to Prospect/Huron and allowing for development (especially retail) to flourish throughout this part of downtown instead of trying to keep everything along Euclid. There isn't too much space on Euclid as "BP", National City, Huntington, Union Club, and couple other storefronts are not retail/entertainment friendly. Downtown could have a more European feel to it if these plazas are done correctly and areas around Gateway/PHS/Halles are drawn into the mix of these other developments. We'd have a big web of activity especially if you include WHD/FEB/CSU too! I'm excited! Honestly, if losing the Dollar Bank building is essential in adding to the growth and energy of downtown, knock it down! I don't think any of us will even notice it's missing when there are throngs of people shopping on Euclid again and it's occupied by people having lunch. Right now, there aren't as many people down here as we'd like to see which hurts our perception of the many plazas we already have. ESPECIALLY the Burnham Mall! I wish the con. center would stay there and expand so we'd see how great of a space the malls when surround by so much density! Sorry to get off topic but I felt that this related to the 668 discussion.
January 31, 200817 yr I think the question is what is really going to happen to that space? Is it going to be a plaza, a pedestrian street, or just a glorified parking lot access point? And if you really want to be scared, this is from the Cuyahoga County Dept of Development's 2007 Annual Report: K & D Group/668 Euclid Avenue The Cuyahoga County Loan Committee recommended an $800,000 dollar loan to The K&D Group for the redevelopment of 668 Euclid and 627 Prospect Avenue in the City of Cleveland into a mixed-use property consisting of commer-cial and residential space. Loan Committee also recommended a $300,000 Local Parking Needs loan for the demolition of 614 Euclid Avenue for surface parking and an access ramp into the indoor parking facility located at 668 Euclid. 668 Euclid, also known as The William Taylor & Son, Co. Building is an important member of the Euclid Avenue streetscape, both in its physi-cal attributes and in its history as a major retail facility in the eastern portion of downtown Cleveland for over half a century. The $64 million redevelopment project included Federal and State Historic Tax credits to bring the building back to its original height, form setback, scale and façade. This project is a catalyst to the rebirth of the Euclid Avenue Historic District. Total project cost: $64,106,500 County funding: $1,200,000
January 31, 200817 yr ^it would be nice to see a graphic to understand what they are conceiving for this "plaza". Sure sounds like they want one thing but are asking for another.
January 31, 200817 yr Sounds like K&D came up with the "plaza" description for the ramp and surface parking to put lipstick on a pig. Doesn't make the pig stink any less, though. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 31, 200817 yr When K&D refer to this "plaza" I always visualize the small parking lot next to Constantino's. It has a walkway, a little bit of landscaping but is basically a dressed up parking lot. I wouldn't be surprised if K&D wanted to offer free short term parking similar to what Constantino's does for their customers. Also, how does this walkway to prospect effect the building on prospect? Will it be a partialy indoor walkway or is this building going to demolished as well.
January 31, 200817 yr ^It's just amazing that people will trade buildings for a few surface parking spaces in this city. There is probably what, 2000 spaces within one block of the Taylor Building? If people want to jump in and out of a supposed store that will be there, isn't that what metered street parking is for? 15 minute max meter. Problem solved, building saved.
January 31, 200817 yr Please see my lengthy recap up top. This isn't a pocket park. It's a swath of concrete about a third of which is a ramp. There's a little swath of grass, a tree and some tables with umbrellas. It's awful. Not to mention the entry to this would come directly in front of a crosswalk for the ECP. I mean there's already parking across the street at 515... and with the new layout of Euclid there is street parking all in front of 668. If people wanted to use this ungodly unhuman scaled ramp and were traveling west down euclid they would have to go all the way down to public square, loop around and come back. And please don't tell me this is the only way to access the basement of that building. Seriously walk past the prospect side garage and at the end you will see a big ramp heading down that says "668 EUCLID AVE SERVICE ENTRANCE". Who wants to bet they can find a way from there to access the garage. It can't be any more difficult than digging a tunnel where the dollar bank building now stands. Secondly, I'd love to know how they plan on having this "connect" to prospect. Walk by Vincenza's and look left. The area they are currently calling any "alley" is the service entrance ramp down into the colonial arcade. Somehow I don't think they'll want to give that up. I love this project, but this "plaza" is simply some ridiculous concept from captain suburban urban Doug Price. I'm tired of tearing buildings down for no good reason around here. and don't want to see 668 as an island. argh....
January 31, 200817 yr Is there a historical facade under the dollar Bank? What bothers me more, is the large parking lot on the other side of the 668 building. Is this belong to the KD group? This is going to leave the 668 building somewhat isolated by parking lot's, plaza's and whatever else they can think of. Why can't they leave the dollar building, and provide a an entrance at street level. This would give them more apartments, and maintain the integrity of the building and the street. This is still a very good development, and good for the city of Cleveland. I doubt there will be anybody throwing up much resistance, but there has to be alternative, cost effective solutions, especially, if this building has some historical significance
January 31, 200817 yr Is there a historical facade under the dollar Bank? What bothers me more, is the large parking lot on the other side of the 668 building. Is this belong to the KD group? This is going to leave the 668 building somewhat isolated by parking lot's, plaza's and whatever else they can think of. Why can't they leave the dollar building, and provide a an entrance at street level. This would give them more apartments, and maintain the integrity of the building and the street. No they do not own the vast surface lot where the hippodrome theatre once stood... as for the rest of your post, my point exactly... The WT Grant lofts use like 3 buildings, and they found a way to make it work... The dollar bank is not "historic" but that just means you could do some cool things with it. I don't know if anyone has ever seen the renderings of when they wanted to turn that thing into condos, but it was pretty cool. The units even had balconies (which would be unique to Euclid Ave.). Again, it may not be "historic" but that doesn't mean it isn't part of the urban fabric of the neighborhood. And i just have zero faith in the developers getting this "park" right.
January 31, 200817 yr The dollar bank is not "historic" but that just means you could do some cool things with it. I don't know if anyone has ever seen the renderings of when they wanted to turn that thing into condos, but it was pretty cool. The units even had balconies (which would be unique to Euclid Ave.). Again, it may not be "historic" but that doesn't mean it isn't part of the urban fabric of the neighborhood. And i just have zero faith in the developers getting this "park" right. I remember those renderings and thought the concept looked incredibly cool. That project might actually have worked if launched now, with the ECP construction end in site, but it was just a little ahead of its time. Ugh this is annoying.
January 31, 200817 yr ^The dollar bank building also drops down to 2 stories not far back. They could remove that entire area and clear it out for a courtyard... add the windows to 668 as they envision, and come up with several more places to rent withing the retained dollar bank structure, which of course means more money... all while keeping a street presence. I don't see what the problem is.
January 31, 200817 yr ^I was thinking the same thing about the courtyard possibility. You could even open up part of the ground floor of Dollar Bank to provide direct, open air, pedestrian access back there without compromising the facade too much. Could make a cool space. I was hoping MRN had something like that in mind for the open areas west of 4th street before they put in the lame valet lane and parking :(.
January 31, 200817 yr ^The open air 1st floor leading to a courtyard was exactly what one of the gateway people suggested at the city design review meeting. As soon as he finished speaking they adjourned the meeting before anyone else could speak. Suburban Urban K&D want their side parking lot... errrrr... Plaza.
January 31, 200817 yr Paid partially with my tax dollars - I'm truly beginning to wonder (and scarily - I'm sounding like Tim Hagan :-o ) what's the point of design review and all these committees if all this garbage keeps getting built and quality buildings keep getting demolished for things like parking lots? It'd be one thing if these developers weren't feeding out of the city trough, but when my money's being used, I'd appreciate it if the people who are supposed to be speaking on my behalf would do so with one of these: clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
January 31, 200817 yr ^all i can say at this point is that there are a decent amount of people who think this is a horrible idea, and while no one wants to jeopardize this project, there is going to be a lot of resistance to this... and i have a feeling at some point they are actually going to have to prove that there is no way to access the "parking" in this basement via the 668 service entrance on the prospect side. i think their biggest obstacle also includes the fact they want to create a "driveway" right next to a pedestrian crosswalk for a ECP stop... that's not going over too well.
January 31, 200817 yr ^yeah, preservation issues aside, a driveway there is just so stupid for the reasons you've pointed out. Just some meaningless daydreaming, but... the Dollar Bank building, with the rear portion demoed, would make a rad little boutique hotel conversion- obviously a low room count though. Throw a rooftop bar on there (there's already that rad canopy up there) and provide direct rooftop access to residents of 668... Oh it's fun to dream.
January 31, 200817 yr ^it's the only gull wing canopy in the area i believe... also just noted while walking about at lunch. There is one of the giant "vaults" directly in front of the entire stretch of the dollar bank building. This idea gets worse every second.
January 31, 200817 yr I thought those were filled in as part of the ECP? clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
January 31, 200817 yr but there are still those giant concrete caps and grates where they were instead of the brick (there's one right in front of corner alley too), unless that is for utility access... regardless, doesn't look like something a drive way would work through.
January 31, 200817 yr If that's the case, awww, what a pity :-D clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
January 31, 200817 yr Well if Euclid is required to have those ridiculous highway signs, then clearly it can't handle another curb cut, so sorry K&D...
February 1, 200817 yr I hope that everyone on here not only voices their opinions to this forum, but to the developers as well. ANOTHER surface lot? are you kidding me? This is not a very urban design if you ask me. I have written emails to developers before and I will again when it comes to issues such as these. Why does it seem that the vision of these urban engineers is to turn DT Cleveland into a suburban style "paradise"? If parking is needed on this avenue, which is supposed to be transformed into a public transit model...then why not go vertical, either above or below ground? Yes, the cost is more, but for God's sake have some vision into what an urban area is to look like....lots of infill and PLENTY of pedestrian traffic. I am mixed about the "pocket park" planned for this area. If parks are planned in an area where there are plenty of pedestrians and residents..great. It seems thought that the major open spaces downtown are either poorly planned, too secluded from other people, or in an area that are only used from 9-5..if that! (Public square, the park between city hall and the court house, and the park in front of the convention center). Not saying these parks aren't nice, or a nice idea...but are they really in the most advantageous areas for use? I would rather see a small park incorporated in the area for Starks plan and see some of the other areas developed to an extent. Just a thought.
February 2, 200817 yr they need to be reevaluated with stricter design standards based on esthetics. I would suggest just the icon for the interstate with its number and an arrow, no green field needed. The USDOT sets the design standards for Interstate markings on U.S. routes (Euclid is U.S. Route 20), not ODOT or even the city. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 2, 200817 yr The USDOT sets the design standards for Interstate markings on U.S. routes (Euclid is U.S. Route 20), not ODOT or even the city. I understand that, but the point is that they don't need interstate markings there. There aren't big ugly green signs on Superior (US 6, US 322) directing traffic to the freeway. The directional signs on the Public Square federal routes vary from the usual type (darker green with smaller heights and pole widths. Also, Euclid Ave. never had interstate signs before, so why does it need them all of a sudden now? If the federal government wants to fund people getting onto their interstates from downtown, then they should commission the stretch of Ontario from Public Square to I-90 as a short US route, not put up huge signs on a route not many would actually take anyways even if they were looking to get on the interstate, and in the meantime directing people onto a road they don't fund (nor even the state), E. 9th St. Is it even legal for them to put up federal highway signs directing traffic onto a non-federally funded road as a route to get to an interstate? If you can't tell, I HATE those signs. :) EDIT: Ontario already is US 422, sorry I forgot. All the more reason Euclid to E. 9th shouldn't even be considered a federally recommended route to get on the interstate.
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