"The Dollar Bank building will be demolished in the course of renovation...it will also provide much-needed downtown green space"

 

My comment, boo.

 

The rest Yeah!

"The Dollar Bank building will be demolished in the course of renovation...it will also provide much-needed downtown green space"

 

My comment, boo.

 

The rest Yeah!

 

Aren't we always pushing for street life over asthetics (i.e. the skyscraper debate).  I love the "wall" on Euclid as much as the next urban enthusiast, but the wall itself does not create the street life/activity we desperately need.  Euclid is plenty dense regardless of any demo of Dollar.  This proposal to demo Dollar (not a big loss IMHO) and put in pedestrian access from Euclid to Prospect makes that part of the CBD more "walkable".  Also, believe it or not UO'ers, green space is attractive to many prospective tenants of CBD condos/apartments.  The hole in the wall that Price is going to create will easily be overlooked 10 years from now when the skyscraper so many want is put right to the east of 668 on that surface lot. :)

"The Dollar Bank building will be demolished in the course of renovation...it will also provide much-needed downtown green space"

 

My comment, boo.

 

The rest Yeah!

 

Aren't we always pushing for street life over asthetics (i.e. the skyscraper debate).  I love the "wall" on Euclid as much as the next urban enthusiast, but the wall itself does not create the street life/activity we desperately need.  Euclid is plenty dense regardless of any demo of Dollar.  This proposal to demo Dollar (not a big loss IMHO) and put in pedestrian access from Euclid to Prospect makes that part of the CBD more "walkable".  Also, believe it or not UO'ers, green space is attractive to many prospective tenants of CBD condos/apartments.  The hole in the wall that Price is going to create will easily be overlooked 10 years from now when the skyscraper so many want is put right to the east of 668 on that surface lot. :)

 

The problem of course is that:

A.  This isn't greenspace, it's a concrete patio about 1/3 of which will be filled up by a giant ramp that cars will be going in and out of.

 

B.  The "pedestrian access" is essentially going to be an alley about 3 feet wide heading out back.  They can't take down the prospect side of the building or they'd lose the tax credits.  I don't know about you buy I'm not sure how keen I'd be about walking through that alley after dark. I think they'd be better off not allowing access to it.

It will be so nice just to renovation begin. This is one of downtown's biggest black eyes. The E.4th energy currently dies as it smacks into the 668 brickwall.

Does anyone have a picture of the Dollar Bank building?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=668+Prospect+Ave+E,+Cleveland,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio+44115,+United+States&sll=40.433066,-82.987955&sspn=0.008068,0.013154&ie=UTF8&cd=2&geocode=0,41.498654,-81.687700&layer=c&t=h&cbll=41.498537,-81.688541&panoid=wGou2qjlKDETHaSS54yHqg&cbp=1,348.78957844085437,,0,-22.309489480954642&ll=41.502182,-81.691418&spn=0.007939,0.013154&z=16

 

Does anybody actually know the details on the "pedestrian plaza"?  Does K&D plan to demolish the mostly vacant building on Prospect in addition to the Dollar Bank Building?  If so, that could be where the intend to create green space.  Also note that along about half the length of the Colonial Marketplace on the 668 side is its' parking garage ramp, not a place to put "windows into ground-floor retail."

I really hope some signage goes up on the building ASAP. I find it really frustrating when a developer announces a project but then waits months to put up a sign. I know here K&D just closed, but the Mann buildings on Euclid are a perfect example. Just something basic like "apartments coming soon" would really help shape perceptions about downtown and Euclid Corridor.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=668+Prospect+Ave+E,+Cleveland,+Cuyahoga,+Ohio+44115,+United+States&sll=40.433066,-82.987955&sspn=0.008068,0.013154&ie=UTF8&cd=2&geocode=0,41.498654,-81.687700&layer=c&t=h&cbll=41.498537,-81.688541&panoid=wGou2qjlKDETHaSS54yHqg&cbp=1,348.78957844085437,,0,-22.309489480954642&ll=41.502182,-81.691418&spn=0.007939,0.013154&z=16

 

Does anybody actually know the details on the "pedestrian plaza"?  Does K&D plan to demolish the mostly vacant building on Prospect in addition to the Dollar Bank Building?  If so, that could be where the intend to create green space.  Also note that along about half the length of the Colonial Marketplace on the 668 side is its' parking garage ramp, not a place to put "windows into ground-floor retail."

 

That "mostly vacant building on prospect" is the prospect side of 668 and will be renovated as well.  They can not demolish it or they lose the tax credits.  It's really not "greenspace" it's a plaza.  tables / umbrellas / a couple trees.  There are plans for a cafe / restaurant type space toward the rear of this.

I really hope some signage goes up on the building ASAP. I find it really frustrating when a developer announces a project but then waits months to put up a sign. I know here K&D just closed, but the Mann buildings on Euclid are a perfect example. Just something basic like "apartments coming soon" would really help shape perceptions about downtown and Euclid Corridor.

 

I totally agree - and that would help the local design community by giving them some high-profile work! ;-)

only if it is "world-class" i've grown accustomed to nothing less

I really hope some signage goes up on the building ASAP.

 

Perhaps some "World Class Signage" :-D

 

Edit: I'm disgusted that Flee beat me to the same joke, I'll feel bad every time I see this!

great minds think alike!

I really hope some signage goes up on the building ASAP. I find it really frustrating when a developer announces a project but then waits months to put up a sign. I know here K&D just closed, but the Mann buildings on Euclid are a perfect example. Just something basic like "apartments coming soon" would really help shape perceptions about downtown and Euclid Corridor.

 

Signage was actually hung several years ago!! When was the last time you went down Euclid?  :-D

 

<img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/bizbizjohn/IMG_4923.jpg">

 

<img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/bizbizjohn/IMG_4898.jpg">

 

<img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/bizbizjohn/P4210027-1.jpg">

this is great stuff! thanks for the photo!  though after looking at gps photos i dont see how in the world taking down the dollar bank building will give you a clear path to prospect. the building only stretches halfway to prospect. behind that is part of the arcade building and the lower part of the 668 complex.

^I think it's safe to say that all of Price's talk of "greenspace" and "pedestrian access" is just spin.  The Dollar Bank demo is for a driveway, full stop.

So I need someone to explain two things to me because I am just not getting it.

 

1. Directly behind Dollar on Prospect is a building which, if I understand the above post, is the rear of 668 :?  I mean the 5 story building on Prospect with empty storefronts and directly across the street from Mo's Jewelers.

 

2.  Where exactly will the cut through to Prospect be?

I agree with gavster but there is no way to get an outdoor "pedestrian plaza" through from Euclid to Prospect without taking out part of the building. But one can see in the google street view map i linked to earlier that there is no space between those 2 buildings, so something has to come out (historic tax credits or not) to put a "pedestrian plaza"/driveway through.

here ya go

 

back in the day:

 

doug price vision:

 

So looking at the bottom of those two images, Price is going to add on to the Prospect side of 668?  That's the parking garage, right?

Also if his rendering is anything like what we should expect, notice the added ninth floor.

I know we've also discussed this here before, but I keep forgetting that the original Taylor Department Store was expanded with four floors added to the top of it....

 

Notice the darker masonry blocks on the four floors added to the top of the building....

 

 

And now K&D is adding a ninth floor to the building? At this rate, 668 Euclid should be the tallest building in the world in about 1,200 years.

 

Another humorous note about 668 Euclid's history.... Its address actually used to be 666 Euclid Avenue, but the owner thought it was one devil of a number and changed it to something less "controversial." People are so silly sometimes. Good thing the building is too short for a 13th floor (er, 14th floor). But since the building keeps getting taller, that should change in 44 years......

1 bedroom for $3.1 million?  Where do I sign up?

 

 

 

 

It looks like we already have our green space.... on top of the canopy  :wink:

 

wow how long ago was this picture taken, weird to see Euclid still intact....

By the way... walking down Euclid at lunch and passing by the dollar bank building I saw a "hard hat guy" in the road directly in front of the building.... I heard him talking on his walkie talkie to someone... he was with Dominion, shutting off the gas to the building for the demolition work.

They sure aren't waiting around, are they? Well, they got the approvals from the city last month so...

 

And the picture above was taken while Spiderman III was being filmed. Check the Cleveland on TV/Film thread to find out when that was.

The sooner the better!  And I agree about the need for construction signs (on all projects, not just this one).....  Put up some signs so that all of the cleveland.com naysayers who work downtown and then commute back to the suburbs can actually see all that's going on!

By the way... walking down Euclid at lunch and passing by the dollar bank building I saw a "hard hat guy" in the road directly in front of the building.... I heard him talking on his walkie talkie to someone... he was with Dominion, shutting off the gas to the building for the demolition work.

 

I want to see results. Just keep the gas on--won't that help speed up the demo work??

If they try to demo that building with the gas on, i think we'll be running into a problem.  :lol:

I wanna watch!!

By the way... walking down Euclid at lunch and passing by the dollar bank building I saw a "hard hat guy" in the road directly in front of the building.... I heard him talking on his walkie talkie to someone... he was with Dominion, shutting off the gas to the building for the demolition work.

 

I swear I saw a contractor type sneak into 668 Yesterday afternoon. Either that or he was a ghost.

By the way... walking down Euclid at lunch and passing by the dollar bank building I saw a "hard hat guy" in the road directly in front of the building.... I heard him talking on his walkie talkie to someone... he was with Dominion, shutting off the gas to the building for the demolition work.

 

I swear I saw a contractor type sneak into 668 Yesterday afternoon. Either that or he was a ghost.

probably not a ghost.  :)  Starting "immediately", unfortunately for us doesn't mean there is going to be scaffoliding up tomorrow for visible restoration work... but rather there are "immediately" these ghosts milling about getting the site ready for visible stuff.

This is very exciting news.  One building that I have seen very little about is the white building right on PSquare (I believe it is the old May Co. bldg.).  Anything being done there?  I believe they were one of the buildings to get a historic tax credit. I'm sure there is something about this site on the forum, but I could not find it.

I think they would probably do the interior abatement work first in dollar bank, and prep it for demo.  This way, they have the West facade of 668 visible for restoration work. 

This is very exciting news. One building that I have seen very little about is the white building right on PSquare (I believe it is the old May Co. bldg.). Anything being done there? I believe they were one of the buildings to get a historic tax credit. I'm sure there is something about this site on the forum, but I could not find it.

 

KeyBank has offices in there (check processing?) but apparently are relocating into the old Higbee's.

Can someone explain to me how the deeds to 668 Euclid http://recorder.cuyahogacounty.us/Searchs/Docindex.aspx?docid=24238525&ref_nbr=200805301147, 645 Prospect http://recorder.cuyahogacounty.us/Searchs/Docindex.aspx?docid=24238692&ref_nbr=200806020123, and the Dollar Bank Building http://recorder.cuyahogacounty.us/Searchs/Docindex.aspx?docid=24238693&ref_nbr=200806020124 show purchase prices of $4,000,000, $5,000,000, and $800,000 respectively (for a total of $9,800,000), but the "Sources and Uses" section of their Declaration of Restrictions for Tax Increment Financing http://recorder.cuyahogacounty.us/Searchs/Docindex.aspx?docid=24239662&ref_nbr=200806021076 shows purchase prices of $8,000,000, $900,000, and $7,500,000 respectively (for a total of $16,400,000)... did someone lose $6,600,000 somewhere???

i suggest looking under the couch cushions. ;)

 

 

i suggest looking under the couch cushions. ;)

 

 

 

Maybe if you turn the building upside down and shake it....

Union protestors were outside the Atrium garage today on Prospect. They had a giant inflated rat and some sign about K&D.  I guess this will be a non-union project.

Good. That means things must be starting..

Union protestors were outside the Atrium garage today on Prospect. They had a giant inflated rat and some sign about K&D.  I guess this will be a non-union project.

 

good thing is those union guys get paid to picket.

good thing is those union guys get paid to picket.

 

Per their contract, do they get paid even if someone else pickets?

K&D must be trying to save money, going with the lowest bids, which does not surprise me one bit considering who we are referencing.  Not saying 668 won't turn out immaculate, it might, but it is clear from living in at least one of their other properties, they try and skimp wherever they can.

 

With as big a role as K&D and Doug Price are playing in downtown's residential rebirth, I can only hope my experience is the exception and not the norm.

^I have heard they've gotten better.

K&D must be trying to save money, going with the lowest bids, which does not surprise me one bit considering who we are referencing.  Not saying 668 won't turn out immaculate, it might, but it is clear from living in at least one of their other properties, they try and skimp wherever they can.

 

With as big a role as K&D and Doug Price are playing in downtown's residential rebirth, I can only hope my experience is the exception and not the norm.

 

Flee, have you thought that maybe it's the property you currently live in not all of their properties?  I dont know, just putting it out there.

you may be right, and I hope you are...i welcome any other KD tenants to speak up either in support or against them....

I've read tenant reviews of K&D properties, and according to the reviews, K&D is cheap.

I have also heard they are a bit cheap.  I think they always use non-union if not mistaken.  I think Kelly Steel (Ironworker) was the only trade on Stonebridge...could be wrong however.

Can anyone comment on whether union vs. non-union necessarily means poorer quality?  I understand that it means lower price, but I'm a bit concerned that two different variables are being associated together.

 

I personally can't comment on commercial grade construction, but I can say from past work experience that non-union residential construction does not mean poor quality.

Union vs. Non-Union generally doesn't mean much outside of Ohio / the north...Though problem here is that to receive the training to be a "quality worker" you almost always exclusively have to go through the union's apprenticeship program (which are very good for the record)...There are other adult ed / evening classes you can take, but those are generally for retooling than educating from scratch...

 

Do I think it makes a difference? I think that you always get a better quality of craftsmanship from union workers, though it is generally more expensive and adds a little time to the project (That is mostly do to over-regulation and the giant amount of guidelines they have to follow, not because they are lazy or slow)...Problem with you trade workers, much like the steel and auto industry, is that they are pricing themselves out of the market...It is nice to have the best, but that isn't always feasible...

 

A lot of the union v. non-union rhetoric comes from that competition...We have better training so we deserve higher wages / They are lazy and take longer to complete projects....Like any profession you have your good and bad...

 

For the record, I hate that stupid rat and it never made any sense to me...Protesting is one thing, name calling is another...