July 15, 200915 yr They look great! Do you also have the rendering of the penthouses by any chance (you would have posted before I know, but just asking)
July 15, 200915 yr The "plaza" looks fine I guess, but I still would have preferred them just keeping the front section of the Dollar Bank building, even if it meant running the driveway through its ground floor- not sure if the engineering was possible there, but I suspect so. And I'm not particularly thrilled that the raw brick side walls of 668 and the Colonial Arcade buildings will be visible more or less in perpetuity... IMHO, they look pretty awful from Euclid. Also, I'm a little surprised they didn't punch some new windows into the eastern WESTERN wall of 668 to provide a line of units with windowed bedrooms, or at least more windows than the other units. I have no idea how expensive it is to punch through that wall; no doubt they considered this. EDITED: Thanks, McCleve
July 15, 200915 yr that's an awful big driveway... were you refering to the western wall of 668, not the eastern?
July 15, 200915 yr The "plaza" looks fine I guess, but I still would have preferred them just keeping the front section of the Dollar Bank building, even if it meant running the driveway through its ground floor- not sure if the engineering was possible there, but I suspect so. And I'm not particularly thrilled that the raw brick side walls of 668 and the Colonial Arcade buildings will be visible more or less in perpetuity... IMHO, they look pretty awful from Euclid. Also, I'm a little surprised they didn't punch some new windows into the eastern wall of 668 to provide a line of units with windowed bedrooms, or at least more windows than the other units. I have no idea how expensive it is to punch through that wall; no doubt they considered this. Why don't wait until the project is complete before saying how you don't like "this or that"? I'm sure those things have been addressed as well. We don't know and wont know what the view from Euclid will be until it's complete.
July 15, 200915 yr that's an awful big driveway...I suspect they make it this big since it will also be a drop off/pick up area for the restaurant's valet parking maybe?
July 15, 200915 yr it will be valet... and as you can tell I'm still a little annoyed. It's hard to be a pedestrian friendly "plaza" when you've got cars popping in and out of it taking up almost 2/3rds of the space. Everything else about this project, I love... this... not so much.
July 15, 200915 yr it will be valet... and as you can tell I'm still a little annoyed. It's hard to be a pedestrian friendly "plaza" when you've got cars popping in and out of it taking up almost 2/3rds of the space. Everything else about this project, I love... this... not so much. I totally agree. This plaza is completely underwhelming, and it's disappointing that the standards are so low since 668 will be such a great building. It's obvious by these preliminary renderings that the public space portion of this is, so far, a total afterthought. Do you also have the rendering of the penthouses by any chance (you would have posted before I know, but just asking) That was all that was on the design review site. I'm assuming you were directing this question to me.
July 15, 200915 yr The only good thing i can say about the alley is that it dips underground and leaves enough room for the restaurant's outside dining area and bar behind it. Maybe it would have worked out better if the ramp was closer to Euclid avenue, leaving more room behind the ramp for the "plaza." But like McCleveland said, i dont think you can have a pedestrian friendly driveway regardless of how it is planned out.
July 15, 200915 yr anyone else wonder about "noise" issues? With cars zipping in and out, and their engines and exhausts humming and reverberating between 3 brick walls and metal car port canopy... i'm willing to say that the restaurant patio will be less than some sort of urban oasis. I'd at least hope they could do some sort of cool lighting back there. Perhaps some string lights similar to East 4th (i'm a sucker for string lights).
July 15, 200915 yr anyone else wonder about "noise" issues? With cars zipping in and out, and their engines and exhausts humming and reverberating between 3 brick walls and metal car port canopy... i'm willing to say that the restaurant patio will be less than some sort of urban oasis. I'd at least hope they could do some sort of cool lighting back there. Perhaps some string lights similar to East 4th (i'm a sucker for string lights). Noise issues are my specialty.. Really! Curbing and abating them..all kinds...Ask me anything you want to know. Also, I have a question about this project. Why is it that it seems the old exposed brick portions of the building are never cleaned after such a major renovation. By name, I cannot remember, but I can point out several examples downtown if I were to walk with someone. This building is going to have a huge brick wall on the pedestrian side. Wouldn't it be nice to see the original color of the brick sometimes? Will this wall be cleaned as it looks in the renderings?
July 15, 200915 yr I'd at least hope they could do some sort of cool lighting back there. Perhaps some string lights similar to East 4th (i'm a sucker for string lights). Thats a great suggestion, since lighting can really make a sense of place.
July 15, 200915 yr anyone else wonder about "noise" issues? With cars zipping in and out, and their engines and exhausts humming and reverberating between 3 brick walls and metal car port canopy... i'm willing to say that the restaurant patio will be less than some sort of urban oasis. I'd at least hope they could do some sort of cool lighting back there. Perhaps some string lights similar to East 4th (i'm a sucker for string lights). Noise issues are my specialty.. Really! Curbing and abating them..all kinds...Ask me anything you want to know. 1. Do you agree that noise could be an issue given the layout? 2. What would you do to dampen it... and something that could hopefully add to the aesthetics (which there aren't much of).
July 15, 200915 yr anyone else wonder about "noise" issues? With cars zipping in and out, and their engines and exhausts humming and reverberating between 3 brick walls and metal car port canopy... i'm willing to say that the restaurant patio will be less than some sort of urban oasis. I'd at least hope they could do some sort of cool lighting back there. Perhaps some string lights similar to East 4th (i'm a sucker for string lights). Noise issues are my specialty.. Really! Curbing and abating them..all kinds...Ask me anything you want to know. 1. Do you agree that noise could be an issue given the layout? 2. What would you do to dampen it... and something that could hopefully add to the aesthetics (which there aren't much of). Noise will absolutely undermine what are supposed to be ped. friendly areas. In this case, designers really need to explore the installation of noise proof technologies on surfaces around this area. Maybe decorate them with art....Trees and lots of plants can help...This situation appears limited. However, if this is not taken into account, it will be a detractor, no doubt. Noise is always an afterthought, yet always results in the most complaints to a police department, building manager, etc.. Also, sometimes 'white noise' in situations like this can also help. Fountains, a pleasant sound typically, would drown out some of the undesired sounds. I looked at this again..and definitely from the drawings.. This needs more trees.. Sound barriers along those 'gates' going under ground... and on the walls around the building so it will not echo. Thicker plants and trees around there too. And in the garage near the entrance.
July 15, 200915 yr Noise issues like that are tricky- as I'm sure most folks know, it's not the actual volume of noise, but how distinct it is. So if there's enough mechanical humming background in that courtyard, or perhaps a tasteful water feature, the noise from slow moving cars entering and exiting the ramp might not be an issue at all. My biggest disappointment about the patio is that because it's tucked behind the ramp, it won't add any signs of life to the sidewalk. EC, as for cleaning the bricks- do you mean the old lot-line walls? I don't think those were ever intended to be seen, so I don't know how good they can make them look. I hope to dear god they don't paint them brick-colored- that is major pet peeve of mine.
July 15, 200915 yr I am also disappointed that they are not going to punch out windows on the north half of the west side of the building. Will apartment be in that area of the building?.... or maybe that is where the elevators, stairs, (something else) will be located? Maybe something creative can be done to dress up those walls some.... like Nike did with the eastern wall on Landmark. I do like the fact that they will use the new and improved Euclid Avenue sidewalk design / streetscape in the plaza.
July 15, 200915 yr ^Not sure if the lighting conditions permit it there, but I would looooove to see more living walls downtown. A great way to soften a surface- probably reduce noise reverb too: http://www.remarc.com/craig/?p=210 EDIT: So many cool green wall photos out there!: http://www.flickr.com/photos/13477177@N00/217204216/ http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/10/parabienta_gree.php
July 15, 200915 yr Noise issues like that are tricky- as I'm sure most folks know, it's not the actual volume of noise, but how distinct it is. So if there's enough mechanical humming background in that courtyard, or perhaps a tasteful water feature, the noise from slow moving cars entering and exiting the ramp might not be an issue at all. My biggest disappointment about the patio is that because it's tucked behind the ramp, it won't add any signs of life to the sidewalk. EC, as for cleaning the bricks- do you mean the old lot-line walls? I don't think those were ever intended to be seen, so I don't know how good they can make them look. I hope to dear god they don't paint them brick-colored- that is major pet peeve of mine. Strap.. Yes, this is a tricky noise situation to deal with, and aside from not having the garage there at all.. what I suggested above it really about as much that can be done with not a lot of money. On the bricks, I was referring to the bare wall where the bank building used to be, now the pedestrian area. I think it may look ugly to just leave it as is, while you have this beautiful restored terra cotta on the front, but maybe it won't. What do you think? Painting.. No, I agree.. It would also just flake and peal and look worse.
July 15, 200915 yr ^^I think that would be unique and awesome. They are punching new windows in the west wall... but only on the back half. by the way I'm pretty sure they are going to be doing some tuck point and general repair of the brick on that side. It'll never look perfect but it won't look like the current disaster it is.
July 15, 200915 yr ^Not sure if the lighting conditions permit it there, but I would looooove to see more living walls downtown. A great way to soften a surface- probably reduce noise reverb too: http://www.remarc.com/craig/?p=210 EDIT: So many cool green wall photos out there!: http://www.flickr.com/photos/13477177@N00/217204216/ http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/10/parabienta_gree.php I like the lighting as long as the lighting is energy efficient if it is on the building..and directed downward to help not waste light into the night sky. Walk way lighting too would be nice..maybe solar charged?
July 15, 200915 yr ^Yes, I agree, those big blank brick walls on all sides of the plaza will probably kind of suck unless they spend a little $ to do something with them...something other than a cheesy whale mural or something.
July 15, 200915 yr Someone needs to tell people to stop doing serious renderings in SketchUp, it looks terrible... and building absolutely horrible and embarrassing steel arches, not to mention lining evergreen trees against blank cmu walls as if it's a park restroom. This is much worse than I could have imagined but I suppose it should have been expected. A living wall would be pretty dope, but it would probablty take some care and thought and that's apparently asking too much. Here's one from the Caixa Forum in Spain by Patrick Blanc in collaboration with Herzog & de Meuron.
July 15, 200915 yr That's a great idea, but don't use English Ivy as it has a tendency to destroy brick. An alternative would be the native Virginia Creeper.
July 16, 200915 yr That's a great idea, but don't use English Ivy as it has a tendency to destroy brick. An alternative would be the native Virginia Creeper. agreed. It messed up our house. nasty stuff...just nasty.
July 16, 200915 yr Before I read your post I thought that was a proposed mockup of the southeast corner of W. 3rd and St. Clair. Someone needs to tell people to stop doing serious renderings in SketchUp, it looks terrible... and building absolutely horrible and embarrassing steel arches, not to mention lining evergreen trees against blank cmu walls as if it's a park restroom. This is much worse than I could have imagined but I suppose it should have been expected. A living wall would be pretty dope, but it would probablty take some care and thought and that's apparently asking too much. Here's one from the Caixa Forum in Spain by Patrick Blanc in collaboration with Herzog & de Meuron.
July 21, 200915 yr Any updates, especially on the Prospect side? Having said that, I have this question for you (I don't know exactly): Are Prospect and Euclid sides of this building normally completely different buildings?
July 22, 200915 yr K&D Group's new apartment complex on Euclid Avenue ready to welcome first tenants CLEVELAND -- A wave of renovation rolling east on Euclid Avenue will gain momentum next month, when the first residents move into an old department store and office complex in downtown Cleveland. http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/07/kd_groups_new_apartment_comple.html
July 23, 200915 yr I'm so bummed... I was going to get a place there, only to find out dogs are not allowed. I have a 6lb. Chihuahua that's litter trained, and as quiet as a cat too. :cry:
July 23, 200915 yr I'm so bummed... I was going to get a place there, only to find out dogs are not allowed. I have a 6lb. Chihuahua that's litter trained, and as quiet as a cat too. :cry: It is tough when you have a dog. I hear you. Viva Gorditas! Love Chihuahuas!
July 24, 200915 yr K&D Group announced yesterday that Titan's Gym will be the 20,000 square foot facility in the building. I'm guessing it's the same as the 24-hour one in Mentor? (turn down your speakers before clicking this link...) http://www.titansgym.com/
July 24, 200915 yr Hello: Yes, it is the same one as in Mentor. I am sorry about the music on the website, it should be removed. I am the owner of Titans Gym and I have been reading this forum for months to get the general reactions to the project at 668. We are very excited to be a major tenant in the building and we promise to bring a GREAT product that all fitness levels can enjoy. We will also have a health food cafe http://www.titanupcafe.com and a tanning salon within the facility. I will be happy to answer any questions about Titans and the building. I have toured the building many times and it is going to be awesome. K&D is doing a top notched renovation of the space. The apartments are beautiful and the restoration of the historic arched hallway bisecting the building is wonderful. The atrium is also great.
July 24, 200915 yr Welcome! And thanks for reaching out to UrbanOhio! I do have questions. Here are two for now: 1) Are you still leaning towards being open 24hrs?? 2) Can you give the price estimate for membership for non-residents? Thanks!
July 24, 200915 yr Welcome! And thanks for reaching out to UrbanOhio! I do have questions. Here are two for now: 1) Are you still leaning towards being open 24hrs?? 2) Can you give the price estimate for membership for non-residents? Thanks! Yes, I'm interested as well as I'm looking to join a new gym! It'll be Fitworks or you!
July 24, 200915 yr It is I that must offer thanks. I have gotten tons of information that helped weigh my decision to move to the 668 project from this site. I do believe at some point the facility will be 24hrs. We will not open 24 hours at the get go. I will do it based on the demand in the area for such hours. I also want to ensure that all members are safe at all times. I would say that if the demand for it is there, then within the first year of operation we would make the switch. It is fairly easy to do given that my software allows for gating systems and what not Pricing has yet to be set in stone, but as of now I am thinking $39.95-44.95/month for a 1 year contract for a single and $69.95-74.95 for a couple. Residents will have their first year paid for by KD, which is a great bonus, but we will honor the discounted rate for people living in the building. We will also have many paid in full options for 1 month contracts, 3 month contracts, and 1 year. All EFT/monthly contract at the above rates are 1 year agreements, but then roll over to openended agreements. I am proud to say that Titans never charges any startup fees unlike most of our competition. Also, we are in charge of our own billing, so the hassles of dealing with "corporate" are non-existant.
July 24, 200915 yr It is I that must offer thanks. I have gotten tons of information that helped weigh my decision to move to the 668 project from this site. I do believe at some point the facility will be 24hrs. We will not open 24 hours at the get go. I will do it based on the demand in the area for such hours. I also want to ensure that all members are safe at all times. I would say that if the demand for it is there, then within the first year of operation we would make the switch. It is fairly easy to do given that my software allows for gating systems and what not Pricing has yet to be set in stone, but as of now I am thinking $39.95-44.95/month for a 1 year contract for a single and $69.95-74.95 for a couple. Residents will have their first year paid for by KD, which is a great bonus, but we will honor the discounted rate for people living in the building. We will also have many paid in full options for 1 month contracts, 3 month contracts, and 1 year. All EFT/monthly contract at the above rates are 1 year agreements, but then roll over to openended agreements. I am proud to say that Titans never charges any startup fees unlike most of our competition. Also, we are in charge of our own billing, so the hassles of dealing with "corporate" are non-existant. What does that mean?
July 24, 200915 yr ^ I would say that is a company doing due diligence and not over commiting. While downtown is not a crime havent that so many people make it out to be, there is always a chance that something could go wrong. Additionally it could be that w/ a 24hr gym staffing at night may be limited. All factors need to be considered why examining safty, inside and out.
July 24, 200915 yr Tripspapa, Had you also considered a space in Ohio City at one point? I had heard that a Mentor-based operator had interest in putting a gym in the OC, but that a deal never came through.
July 24, 200915 yr What does that mean? I take this as he would like to actually staff the facility 24/7 if it were to be open as such; as opposed to some fitness clubs that are accessible 24/7 but not staffed at the wee hours of the night. In order to do this it would require enough subs to pay for this over night shift. But I'm reading a bit into this.
July 24, 200915 yr ^ I would say that is a company doing due diligence and not over commiting. While downtown is not a crime havent that so many people make it out to be, there is always a chance that something could go wrong. Additionally it could be that w/ a 24hr gym staffing at night may be limited. All factors need to be considered why examining safty, inside and out. What does that mean? I take this as he would like to actually staff the facility 24/7 if it were to be open as such; as opposed to some fitness clubs that are accessible 24/7 but not staffed at the wee hours of the night. In order to do this it would require enough subs to pay for this over night shift. But I'm reading a bit into this. This is why I would like Tripspapa to respond.
July 24, 200915 yr Hey, the PD picked up on it: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2009/07/titans_gym_to_open_20000_squar.html Titans Gym to open 20,000 square foot facility in downtown Cleveland by Michelle Jarboe/Plain Dealer Reporter Friday July 24, 2009 Titans Gym, a fitness facility in Mentor, will open a branch in downtown Cleveland in a historic building that is being renovated for apartments. The gym, a 24-hour fitness center on Mentor Ave., plans to open a two-story, 20,000 square foot facility in the Residences at Six Six Eight Euclid Avenue project. The facility will face Prospect Avenue and will offer personal training sessions, tanning beds and the Titan Up Cafe, a small health food restaurant...
July 24, 200915 yr Yes, safety means for members and for Titans Gym. I want to make sure it will be a good fit. We currently use a keyless entry system. We have had no issues in Mentor in 7 years of using the swipe system. I can not say it will be the same in Cleveland. I have spent alot of time in the Mentor location over the course of the past 8 years since I have owned it, and there is a certain respect that many of my members have for me and the facility. This is not to say I do not hope to earn the same respect from the 668 members, but I just want to make sure the fit is there. There is always issues with people tailgating other members through the doors, or liability concerns with having a nonstaffed facility. I am not against having it staffed if the need and demand is there as Titans in Mentor was staffed for the first 4 years. Again, cost and staffing is ALWAYS and issue. We origionally used the keyless entry as a "just in case" and weekend/holiday model. You would not beleive how many people want to work out on Christmas and Thanksgiving mornings... I just spoke with Michelle Jarboe from the PD and she asked about the 24 hour thing also, I told her decision would be made within the first 6-12 months. Again, it is not a hard transition for us to make, just adding a couple pieces of hardware. To answer the other question, yes, we were exploring an OC location. We love the site of the old Moda and the OC town reps really wanted Titans there. We were very close to going there but the KD deal was more what we were looking for. Titans in Mentor is 26,000 sq/feet. Our weight floor is about 11,000. The 668 location matched our model a little more then Moda did as Moda is only about 8,500sq/ft. Titans is in a growth mode though and we plan on expanding to other areas in the future. We may end up re-exploring the OC site as a smaller, botique style center because I love the site. Sorry to be a little long winded, I am just very excited to be apart of the revitalization of downtown Cleveland and I believe fitness is a great cog in the forward moving wheel.
July 24, 200915 yr Holy cow do you people post things quickly. I talked to Michelle 10 minutes before I posted...
July 24, 200915 yr we're excited to have you be a part of the revitalization of downtown Cleveland as well. Welcome!
July 24, 200915 yr ^^great. thanks for the reply. Side question, membership will get you in all the locations, even the potential OC one? correct? I was also thinking that by being on the Prospect side of things, you will have high visibility from everyone who goes to the Cavs and Indians games. Another HUGE marketing plus.
July 24, 200915 yr The gym, a 24-hour fitness center on Mentor Ave., plans to open a two-story, 20,000 square foot facility in the Residences at Six Six Eight Euclid Avenue project. The facility will face Prospect Avenue and will offer personal training sessions, tanning beds and the Titan Up Cafe, a small health food restaurant. Looks like there is the answer to the tanning beds that were being discussed in another thread (or was it this one, cant remember).
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