I know they're adding a floor to the building, but what is going to happen with the top floor in the first picture where the little square windows are?

thanks for the photos!

i want to take some pictures from the back end on prospect, but i dont know how to add them here from photobucket, ill try. anyways, not to be off topic, but does anyone know who owns the apartments above the corner alley bowling on euclid and 4th st, what they are called, and how much, as well as the apartments above the bang and clatter thingie at 226 euclid i believe, next to caddy ranch. i see lights on when i drive by, and see stuff in the window, i know people live there, but have no idea of who owns the building, the rent, and how you get in the building, its driving me nuts. lol. ill try and tak the piks of 668 on the prospect side this morning, and when i get off work if i can, without looking too much like a creep driving slowly, anyone from the downtown area wanna join in taking some pics, let me know

i want to take some pictures from the back end on prospect, but i dont know how to add them here from photobucket, ill try. anyways, not to be off topic, but does anyone know who owns the apartments above the corner alley bowling on euclid and 4th st, what they are called, and how much, as well as the apartments above the bang and clatter thingie at 226 euclid i believe, next to caddy ranch. i see lights on when i drive by, and see stuff in the window, i know people live there, but have no idea of who owns the building, the rent, and how you get in the building, its driving me nuts. lol. ill try and tak the piks of 668 on the prospect side this morning, and when i get off work if i can, without looking too much like a creep driving slowly, anyone from the downtown area wanna join in taking some pics, let me know

 

thanks and welcome.  Next time just get out the car instead of driving by.  You'll get better photos on foot. 

 

In regard to posting pictures, check out the forum insights/issues section for directions on how to post a picture/pictures.

i want to take some pictures from the back end on prospect, but i dont know how to add them here from photobucket, ill try. anyways, not to be off topic, but does anyone know who owns the apartments above the corner alley bowling on euclid and 4th st, what they are called, and how much, as well as the apartments above the bang and clatter thingie at 226 euclid i believe, next to caddy ranch. i see lights on when i drive by, and see stuff in the window, i know people live there, but have no idea of who owns the building, the rent, and how you get in the building, its driving me nuts. lol. ill try and tak the piks of 668 on the prospect side this morning, and when i get off work if i can, without looking too much like a creep driving slowly, anyone from the downtown area wanna join in taking some pics, let me know

 

The apartments above Corner Alley are owned by MRN I believe: http://www.east4thstreet.com/livingRent.php#

 

I can't remember the name of the other building you are talking about.

The apartments directly over Corner Alley are the Euclid Park Apartments, part of MRN's East 4th developments, and they're getting built out as we speak. Nice units. I looked at a one-bedroom on the second floor, app. 750 sq. ft. for $850. You can get additonal information from the leasing office on East 4th next to Pickwick & Frolic. The apartments above Bang and Clatter are the WT Grant Lofts. I think they are pretty similarly priced, and I believe there is leasing info available on the front door. The best thing to do for an apartment search in this area is to get out and walk around. Most buildings either have an on-site leasing office with regular hours or posted contact information. 

thanks a lot for the info

Hi guys! I've moved in finally. It's looking good!

Hi guys! I've moved in finally. It's looking good!

 

I'mma beat MTS to it.  Pictures please!

Hi guys! I've moved in finally. It's looking good!

 

So when are you inviting all of us over to check it out?  :-D

Whatcha want pics of?

Whatcha want pics of?

 

Just a couple snapshots of your place.  Kitchen, living area....  Perhaps a couple of the interior corridors of the building (well what is finished thus far).

Some quick updates...

 

1. Windows are starting to go in on the west wall

2. Brickwork is being done on the back wall of the prospect side overlooking the "plaza"

3 & 4.  Looks like painting of the garage has begun...

OOOhhh... I thought they were going to be cleaning the terra cotta on the front facade.  I guess not, they are using some sort of paint / sealer similar to what was done on the terminal tower.  Regardless, it looks really, really, good.  I really wish I would've had my camera on me.  I think we're about to see a big step taking place.

OOOhhh... I thought they were going to be cleaning the terra cotta on the front facade. I guess not, they are using some sort of paint / sealer similar to what was done on the terminal tower. Regardless, it looks really, really, good. I really wish I would've had my camera on me. I think we're about to see a big step taking place.

 

I passed by yesterday and saw the bottom left corner of the Euclid side had been painted and thought the same exact thing. Didnt see anything today but this is going to look phenomenal when finished.

I walked past the Propsect side of the building and noticed a board with redernings on it. It had renderings for a sports bar/ virtual driving range. I couldn't make out too many details but it showed a Wii station, hi def golf simulators and a small bar. It was in the space where a convenient store was proposed. I would much rather see the convenient store but at least this is a unique idea.

It's unfortunate that they will be painting over the terra cotta (an even worse idea than painting over brick).  I thought the contrast between the old and new terra cotta would leave an interesting facade treatment, they did this on many of the buildings along east 4th and it looks great.  In my opinion, this is another example of K&D doing a great project but falling short on the details that could make a project even better.

It's unfortunate that they will be painting over the terra cotta (an even worse idea than painting over brick).  I thought the contrast between the old and new terra cotta would leave an interesting facade treatment, they did this on many of the buildings along east 4th and it looks great.  In my opinion, this is another example of K&D doing a great project but falling short on the details that could make a project even better.

 

I would have to agree.  While K&D gets credit for the project, Im always concerned about their ability to carry out a project correctly or appropriately.  They definitely lack an understanding of urban planning concepts (as witnessed by their desire to tear down adjacent buildings).  Maybe the difference between the old and the new was just too jarring, but to paint over terra cotta..... come on!!!

(Would the historic tax credits allowed for this?)   

Painting over terra cotta? That's just brilliant! Even if it is a special paint that holds up well. Ugh! The way follow up goes on on-going maintenance in this city. (the "restore it once and its good for life and never do another thing" mentality) I give this not very long before it shows signs of lack of follow up and ongoing needed maintenance. Hope I am wrong, but just looking at other situations as a gauge. Its the little things that count and the little things that get neglected the most. It could be something as simple as failing to change a light bulb for 2 years on facade lighting, or leaving dead plants/trees in planters.

I was wondering when the exterior frontal facade would be addressed on this building.  As long as the job is done well, it might end up being really attractive.  Anything is better than the state the building was in before.

I would also wonder how the old and new terra cotta would look together even when cleaned.  If it would look terrible then I would think this is the best way to go.  We can't know everything that the developer is doing and they have a right to develop this property as they see fit.  Besides I would say that this is a vast improvement from it's previous state.

I think people are jumping the gun a little bit on this...I suspect it's a little bit more sophisticated than just "paint" especially if this is a process that was used on the Terminal Tower. And look at how awesome that restoration has turned out.

 

Having seen the building on an almost daily basis, I can say that, IMHO, the patchwork of darker, original terracotta and brilliant white replacement pieces would not have been an attractve look over the long run.

I think people are jumping the gun a little bit on this...I suspect it's a little bit more sophisticated than just "paint" especially if this is a process that was used on the Terminal Tower. And look at how awesome that restoration has turned out.

 

Having seen the building on an almost daily basis, I can say that, IMHO, the patchwork of darker, original terracotta and brilliant white replacement pieces would not have been an attractve look over the long run.

 

I the replacement material was the same as the Terminal Tower, but I didnt think the Terminal Tower "painted" the existing surface in order to make it match (they did at least clean it). 

 

McCleve...?

For something like terracotta what they're likely using is classified as a stain and not paint.  Not a  big deal, and will protect the surface and give the building a finished look.

This is the difference between this site and clevelanddotbomb -- here we have people involved in these and similar projects and others who are willing to listen to them. That is what keeps this site from running amok (for the most part! :-D ).

yeah, paint is probably a very poor word.  Coon restoration indeed did use some type of coating or sealant on the terminal tower and this application looks pretty similar.  I'm "guessing" that this is some type of elastomeric coating, which is extremely durable.  I'll snap some pictures in a few minutes and let people decide for themselves.

Except they didnt first clean 668 if I understand correctly. 

^ shouldn't any surface be cleaned before a coating is applied? If not, its kind of like carpet installers not cleaning the floor underneath before the carpet is installed and chucking or leaving cigarette buts under it. I have see that happen.

Except they didnt first clean 668 if I understand correctly. 

 

Developers cutting corners?? I'm shocked!!  :-o

Tough to say if they are cutting corners or if it needs to be cleaned in advance without knowing exactly what it is they are using.  Also a little tough to use the terminal tower as an exact gauge as the TT was made with Salem Limestone and this is terra cotta.  Additionally though the body of the TT has been cleaned, the vast majority of the upper portion of the tower was actually recreated out of fiberglass.  I have no idea if they cleaned what was left of the limestone up there before sealing it or not, but it was definitely sealed...  And now on to the pictures of 668:

 

1.  You can see the first real sizeable portion of the building that has been sealed.

 

2.  One of the reasons I think they may have had to go this route is because the patched so much of the damaged exterior.  If you notice in this picture the original facade accounted for a singular horizontal piece of terra cotta between windows stacked on top of eachother.  With patching sometimes in 1 location sometimes in 2 as opposed to replacing the entire piece this leaves 2 to 4 vertical lines in what should be one piece.  As they made the decision to patch instead of whole sale replace damaged pieces i think it could have looked like real crap if it was only cleaned.

 

3.  A close up of the sealant showing how it can hide the patching.

 

4.  In non sealant updates :)  they've started working on repairing the base of the columns.

 

5.  They've also begun to repair the windows that they had kept open for hoisting material.

 

6.  Starting to do the prep work for the new cornice...

 

7.  And you can see up top (towards the left in the photo) where the Florette detail turns at the top of the building...

 

8.  The new brick wall on the back end of the prospect side of the building.

 

I walked past the Propsect side of the building and noticed a board with redernings on it. It had renderings for a sports bar/ virtual driving range. I couldn't make out too many details but it showed a Wii station, hi def golf simulators and a small bar. It was in the space where a convenient store was proposed. I would much rather see the convenient store but at least this is a unique idea.

 

I noticed this the other day too, and thought I'd grab a pic of the presentation board, but it had been turned around... however I saw a roll of prints sitting on a table by the window... the name of this potential establishment... "the caddy shack" :lol:

 

just an initial thought... i'm not sure that any sort of business here necessarily precludes the development of a convenient store.  There is a lot of space inside this building.

Thanks for the pics!  The sealant looks to be a good choice for the exterior work on the frontal facade. 

I recently moved into to 668 and walked by the board this morning... From what I saw there they are starting construction on one of the office/retail spaces in the lobby this week.  The sign did advertise a golf simulator... I'll have to take another glance at it on my way out tomorrow.

 

 

The photos look great. But I have a question...it looks as though the coating over the terra cotta takes away the 'tiled' appearenace. Is that how it looks only in the photos? How will that look when finished. I guess what I am saying is that it appears so smooth that you cannot see the tile appearenance.

Yes, it does seem to lose a bit of character.  I can't say that I like the stark white chunks either.

you do lose a bit of the Tile essence, but i think this will look better than the random sized tiles.  Judging by the fact that they choose to patch the broken tile pieces instead of replacing them whole I would guess that this was K&D's plan all along. 

Just one additional note from me, as I'm not really that familiar with the details of this restoration - I know that the National Park Service, who administers the Federal Historic Tax Credit Program, is a real sticker for details.  I would imagine that K&D had to demonstrate that what they were doing would be the most beneficial to the historic character, integrity & durability of this structure.  So, it may not be what we would prescribe, but it was highly scrutinized and it would be unfair to call it "cutting corners."  I give massive props to K&D for their work on this project!

I know. I was just in a pissy mood that day.

Maybe this has been already answered on the forum, but is Jonathon Sandvick still the architect for this project?

If he is, then I feel comfortable with what they're doing... given his expertise in preservation and restoration.

sorry,

just did a search and I see that it is Berardi from Columbus...oh well.

No Sandvick on this project

I recently moved into to 668 and walked by the board this morning... From what I saw there they are starting construction on one of the office/retail spaces in the lobby this week.  The sign did advertise a golf simulator... I'll have to take another glance at it on my way out tomorrow.

 

 

 

Welcome jsteele!

sandvick was the initial architect on this project when goldberg still owned the building and was applying for the tax credits which were transfered... but when price bought the building he switched.

Whatever the coating is it makes the building look too much like limestone. There should be a slight gloss for the true terra cotta look and, obviously the seams' being the same color as the facing diminishes the full terra cotta image.  Then, again, it will assumably all have to painted "forever." They probably could have used a coating with at least a slight gloss, like an "eggshell."  Might it get another coat? In any case leaving the face with the great contrasts between old and new would be an aesthetic disaster.  I expected a decent cleaning.

Anyone know when the gym will be open?  I need to get my swole on for the ladies. 

"In any case leaving the face with the great contrasts between old and new would be an aesthetic disaster."

 

I disagree.  Leaving a trace of the work that went into rehabbing this building, ontop of the fact that there is nothing wrong with a subtle randomness to a stone facade, would give another layer of interest to the facade.  I think it would have been interesting to PURPOSELY contrast the existing terra cotta with the new.  Maybe use a different color terra cotta all together.  I suppose this would put historic tax credits at risk, but that only reveals the shortcomings of the Ohio rules for historic redevelopment.

A contrasting terra cotta is fine when it's done as in the old days, when they used greens, blues, pinks, etc., but this building was always a uniform terra cotta and the new pieces are very unevenly placed. I can't imagine it looking good, considering the bold contrast between many of the pieces.

What paint or a uniform stain spoils here, imho, is what it eliminates - the attractive, natural subtle color variation within unpainted brick, stone, stained shingles, or stucco.  And in this case they're painting even the seems.  There are still many a terracotta facade on Euclid (Cleveland should be known for its large number of t.c. structures) and you can see how nice the seams look - again for the true terra cotta look.  But better all coated a uniform color than some left THAT filthy.

I think it will look nice. If subtly lit in the evening, that would be impressive.

^ I agree and home that there is some lighting in store for this building.  it should light up with even just a bit of light due to the light color.  No need to use a done of light.  Additionally that light will bring out some of the subtleness of the building.

Yes, I was thinking, that in order to focus the light energy onto the building and instead of wasting it into the sky....if they were somehow affixed to shine down...on the building instead of up...much in the same way a lot of signs are doing to not waste any of the light effect.

All of a sudden I see now they're painting the section just about the scaffolding a lighter tone - almost a white.  I take it, then, the whole area around the storefronts will be this tone?  Wonder if there's any historical precedence to it....

It's not just an optical illusion, is it?