June 17, 200816 yr Haha there used to be a big inflatable rat outside a hotel at like 29th & Broadway as I walked to work, everyday I would laugh as the few people who were clearly not union members and were paid to picket, stood around, clearly not caring.
June 17, 200816 yr FWIW K&D invited 3 union companies to bid on the interior demolition... none submitted bids.
June 18, 200816 yr good thing is those union guys get paid to picket. Â Per their contract, do they get paid even if someone else pickets? Speaking for the United Brotherhood of Carpenters, the answer is no; a brother member has to sign up and be present on the line to get paid his $30 for the day. We do not pay non-members to picket. Union vs. Non-Union generally doesn't mean much outside of Ohio / the north...Though problem here is that to receive the training to be a "quality worker" you almost always exclusively have to go through the union's apprenticeship program (which are very good for the record)...There are other adult ed / evening classes you can take, but those are generally for retooling than educating from scratch... Â Do I think it makes a difference? I think that you always get a better quality of craftsmanship from union workers, though it is generally more expensive and adds a little time to the project (That is mostly do to over-regulation and the giant amount of guidelines they have to follow, not because they are lazy or slow)...Problem with you trade workers, much like the steel and auto industry, is that they are pricing themselves out of the market...It is nice to have the best, but that isn't always feasible... Â A lot of the union v. non-union rhetoric comes from that competition...We have better training so we deserve higher wages / They are lazy and take longer to complete projects....Like any profession you have your good and bad... Â For the record, I hate that stupid rat and it never made any sense to me...Protesting is one thing, name calling is another... Â Â Â Oh boy, where do I start? Let me begin by dispelling the notion that all unions are equal or the same. The Industrial non-skilled unions like the UAW or Steelworkers (not to be confused with the Ironworkers) operate using seniority and often ridiculous work rules that many of you have come to associate with ALL unions. These rules protect deadbeats (just like the all-powerful Teachers ' unions; I strongly oppose seniority) and encourage petty grievances and kill efficiency. The building trades (Carpenters, Bricklayers, Ironworkers, Pipefitters/Plumbers, Electricians, etc) couldn't be more different than our industrial/factory counterparts. Â Â We are HIGHLY-TRAINED. All of the named trades require 3 or 4 years in an apprenticeship program (of which I completed) which requires class and shop work along with paid on-the-job experience that the non-union sector has no equivalent to. Speaking for the Carpenters', all of us are drug tested at least once a year; we have ongoing safety training and certification; we don't operate on seniority...the best guys work, and work a lot. The dead-beats get let go. The whole 'lazy union construction worker' is a myth. This training and experience means that, yes, our labor costs more, but why shouldn't it? Isn't that why people go to college?? Better training=more $. You pay some more money upfront for union labor, but more often than not, the job is done right the first time and on time. Â Â The stereotype of the dumb, overpaid construction worker is still very strong; especially union guys. Speaking for myself and my Union brothers, this couldn't be further from the truth. Â Â Â One final point/question: if there isn't much difference between Union and non-union labor (except Unions' higher pay :roll:), then how come non-union contractors' aren't even considered for work at UH, the Clinic, First Energy power plants, etc.? For the record, the Clinic exclusively uses Union labor, and not because they 'have to', whatever that means. Â I hope this answered a few questions. I can see the ignorant anti-Union posts made on here periodically and I feel the need to do some educatin'. Â If there are further legitimate questions about Union labor, feel free to PM me and I'll do my best to answer them. Â Thanks mods for allowing me to address the questions above and now we should return to 668 Euclid.
June 18, 200816 yr ^ I didn't know that building trades don't emphasize seniorty very much. To be honest I assumed all unions did. Interesting post. Â As for 668 Euclid, I noticed there is an armed guard outside the building. Are scrap thieves that big of a problem? This seems a little extreme. Â Â
June 18, 200816 yr ^Jon, thanks for your thoughts and for helping educate us a bit. Â By the way, my reference was to the city union guys who complained and demanded that they be paid when the property owners hired DCA to clean the sidewalks.
June 18, 200816 yr ^ I didn't know that building trades don't emphasize seniorty very much. To be honest I assumed all unions did. Interesting post. Â As for 668 Euclid, I noticed there is an armed guard outside the building. Are scrap thieves that big of a problem? This seems a little extreme. Â Â Â Yeah, on my jog I noticed he was there as of 7:20p. I'm sure copper wire and such is throughout that buildng; as work starts, there would feasibly be more opportunities to sneak in.
June 18, 200816 yr This morning when I walked past 668 on Euclid there were 4 union men outside picketing. This evening, there was a uniformed security guard standing on the exact spot where the union picketers stood earlier in the day. Not knowing what transpired, it made me wonder if K&D hired security to get rid of the picketers.
June 18, 200816 yr No they do not own the vast surface lot where the hippodrome theatre once stood... Anyone have a pic of the hippodrome theatre?
June 18, 200816 yr walking back from east 4th last night there was a guard also positioned on the prospect side of the building as well...this was around 10pm. are they hired to be there around the clock?
June 18, 200816 yr I know i should know this but, the was Hippodrome located where the surface lot is between Cleveland City Club and 668, right
June 18, 200816 yr Yup... there was also a smaller building located where the East 8th street alley is now stands between hippodrome and the city club building.
June 18, 200816 yr In case there was any doubt... there is definitely construction work going on here now. This picture was taken at the main front doors to 668. There were also a lot of "warning / no tresspassing" signs up, as well as several colliers "space available" in the windows...
June 18, 200816 yr ^Oh man is this exciting. I know it's a ways away, but I can't wait to see the huge windows start appearing in that front facade.
June 18, 200816 yr Looks like a two-story commercial building: clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
June 18, 200816 yr ^Oh man is this exciting. I know it's a ways away, but I can't wait to see the huge windows start appearing in that front facade.  I don't think you're going to have to wait too long. I know the goal is to be complete with the exterior renovation by the time the winter hits so they can concentrate inside then.
June 18, 200816 yr The topic is 668 Euclid :-) clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
June 19, 200816 yr wow, exterior renovation complete by winter??? that would be amazing and would coincide nicely with the opening of the Euclid Corridor!
June 20, 200816 yr What was in that spot before the Hippodrome?Actually, the vacant lot between two building is the Hippodrome site. Although you can't see it in the picture, as it's set back from the street was the old Union Club, which was the former Truman P. Handy mansion. Handy was a prominent pioneer banker in the mid-19th century. The two-story commercial structure in the picture was replaced by 668, and before that was the Ursuline Convent (also housed in a former mansion).
June 20, 200816 yr ^Same here! Keep up the great photo-documenting!  It's amazing to see those window spaces with people standing in them for context...
June 20, 200816 yr Those windows are HUGE! Hard to tell how big they are until a person is there for scale. Impressive! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 20, 200816 yr Those windows are HUGE! Hard to tell how big they are until a person is there for scale. Impressive! Â They have to have a solid 14-15' high opening.
June 20, 200816 yr Ha! There you go, MTS!  Yeah, but they don't have their shirts off! he he he ^Wow that facade needs some TLC.  I'm liking the new photo-happy McC! Yes, I love the camera tootin' Mayor McCleveland? :clap:   those windows are GiNormous!
June 20, 200816 yr I see a more industrial feel. A door that large would have to be super energy efficient.  Or one side is all glass, and another a door opening.
June 20, 200816 yr There will be balconies on the 2nd story of the building on the east side... actually more like patios, and they will be LARGE patios. I'm assuming those units will cost a pretty penny.
June 20, 200816 yr ^Wow. Just for clarification, will they be on the eastern portion of the front facade? Or will they be along the eastern side of the building (punched through the brick side wall)?
June 20, 200816 yr ^Wow. Just for clarification, will they be on the eastern portion of the front facade? Or will they be along the eastern side of the building (punched through the brick side wall)?  On the eastside of the building. Not on the front facade. And only on the 2nd floor. if you go to live.com and check out the building from birdseye view... on the eastern side it steps back in. This is where the large water tower looking structures are sitting (those are going away). All the units on the second floor (that face this "rooftop" area) will have walk out patios (good size ones too) onto this space. I know this because I have seen the model and the plans first hand.  EDIT: If you read the 9th post on the first page of this thread I gave a pretty comprehensive description of the project.
June 20, 200816 yr ^Got it, thanks. That step-back is really huge, those terraces could be gigantic. They might not be so scenic though if someone ever builds tall along the lot line on the Hippodrome parking lot site. Not that we have to worry for the foreseeable future.
June 20, 200816 yr ^I think that set back is large enough that it will always be sundrenched even if another building goes next to it... I don't remember exactly what the terraces / patios look like (i was checking out that model like 6 months ago)... but I remember being blown away by how cool and how HUGE they were. I don't think it's often the coolest places in a building are on the 2nd floor... but this may be one of those instances.
June 22, 200816 yr wow, nice grab -- it's just so great to see real, live construction action up on that one!
June 24, 200816 yr http://blog.cleveland.com/business/2008/06/tracy_boulianthe_plain_dealerc.html  Resurrected tax credits may give life to historic buildings Posted by rroguski June 23, 2008   Historic buildings across the state have a second shot at new life with the reincarnation of a popular state program that fizzled last spring. When Gov. Ted Strickland signed off on a $1.6 billion economic stimulus bill this month, he allocated $120 million in tax credits to help developers preserve and renovate historic properties. The credits, available starting in July 2009, could keep landmark properties in Greater Cleveland from sitting empty or sliding slowly into disrepair.See winners and losers in the first round of the program...
July 11, 200816 yr Ok, there's some construction going on in the storefronts directly to the west of the cruddy yellow parking garage on Prospect. Are these spaces all part of the 668 project or is this something new?  Nonetheless, I hope it's for some sort of retail space!
July 15, 200816 yr The guy in the yellow shirt... yup... that's Doug Price of K&D. Looks to be a lot of animated pointing and gesturing between him and either a foreman or architect regarding the facade... I see a lot of people coming in and out of this building and just can't wait for them to start peeling off those awful steel poles John Hartness Brown style.
July 15, 200816 yr nice job mccleveland you are like urbanohio's very own project-paparazzi I know. Mayor McCleveland, you want a job at TMZ? Just let me know!
July 15, 200816 yr And that's one nice looking sidewalk they're on too! Â Can I assume that giant canopy thing will be coming down as part of the project?
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