January 22Jan 22 20 hours ago, DO_Summers said: Well, certainly @KJP you are not far off. The street looks a 1000 yr old road built by the Roman Empire. I can make out multiple potholes, so we can add points for authenticity. But the best part is they included what looks like my old 1970's white Chevy van tooling down the road in a dust (road salt?) cloud headed out east. Exactly 😂 Carnegie does have the look of Roman Empire roads (but after the fall unfortunately) At least they tried to fix theirs like in Pompei: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/pompeii-fixed-potholes-molten-iron-180972203/ Edited January 22Jan 22 by Willo
January 23Jan 23 On 1/22/2025 at 3:57 PM, Willo said: Exactly 😂 Carnegie does have the look of Roman Empire roads (but after the fall unfortunately) At least they tried to fix theirs like in Pompei: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/pompeii-fixed-potholes-molten-iron-180972203/ Immediately made me think of this..... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 24Jan 24 On 1/21/2025 at 6:29 PM, KJP said: Meh, made an article out of it. Here's that Geis render... Long-sought Midtown developments have a pulse By Ken Prendergast / January 21, 2025 Projects that have languished for half as long as the redevelopment of the Warner & Swasey factory, 5701 Carnegie Ave., were ultimately abandoned. But not this one and the reason is because just about anyone who follows redevelopment locally wants its catalytic reactivation for the benefit of Cleveland’s Midtown neighborhood. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/01/21/long-sought-midtown-developments-have-a-pulse/ Just seeing this now, some of these projects died because of legislation passed at the end of 2023. Retroactive to projects not placed in service when passed, a project cannot receive both Historic TC & Low-Incoming Housing TC. Even if they had been previously awarded, the TC was rescinded. "In addition to City Council’s allocation, other public financing committed to the project includes state historic tax credits and low income housing tax credits. But the funding awards have been slow in coming due to the project’s complexity and high cost. Additional public dollars continue to be sought, including New Markets Tax Credits."
January 30Jan 30 Don't know when this was first announced but it seems like a cool reuse project that will be done in March: https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/mixed-use-development-agora-nearly-complete Iconic office building next to The Agora set to debut as mixed-use space "The tower will consist of an unnamed restaurant, 35 apartments, and office spaces, including that of the economic development group MidTown Cleveland Inc. The tower's apartments will include 12 studio units; 12 one-bedroom units; seven "one-and-a-half bedroom" units; one two-bedroom unit; and three studios reserved for Airbnb." "The project is next door to the Agora Theater & Ballroom, but developers have made sure there is enough insulation to avoid sound problems, Neece said. The space closest to the music venue will be used as common areas, such as the gym. 'Nobody’s going to be living on top of a rock concert,' Neece said." LDA Architects is also in the building.
January 30Jan 30 5 minutes ago, Geowizical said: Don't know when this was first announced but it seems like a cool reuse project that will be done in March: https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/mixed-use-development-agora-nearly-complete Iconic office building next to The Agora set to debut as mixed-use space "The tower will consist of an unnamed restaurant, 35 apartments, and office spaces, including that of the economic development group MidTown Cleveland Inc. The tower's apartments will include 12 studio units; 12 one-bedroom units; seven "one-and-a-half bedroom" units; one two-bedroom unit; and three studios reserved for Airbnb." "The project is next door to the Agora Theater & Ballroom, but developers have made sure there is enough insulation to avoid sound problems, Neece said. The space closest to the music venue will be used as common areas, such as the gym. 'Nobody’s going to be living on top of a rock concert,' Neece said." LDA Architects is also in the building. At least a couple years ago if not longer. I recall it going through the city planning approval process. Might have also been before city council for some public funds but not sure. I have a vague recollection of the entire project being implemented in phases.
January 30Jan 30 ^ It’s great to see this happening and will be a great addition. I do have to ask though, is this some new definition of the word ‘tower’ that I’ve been previously unaware of…? My hovercraft is full of eels
January 30Jan 30 Love it! Looking at old pictures of that block are some of the more painful images of the losses that Cleveland has seen since it's days as a top 10 US city.
January 30Jan 30 Midtown would’ve been so popping back in the day. I really hope it gets there again one day. With Cle foundation investing heavy here, it could be a sign of good things to come.
January 30Jan 30 Health care hub planned near downtown By Ken Prendergast / January 30, 2025 The closure of St. Vincent Charity Medical Center in 2022 has left a health care void on Cleveland near-east side. While that’s a big void to fill, an entrepreneur from the suburbs wants to start trying. And she’s already planted her flag at the northeast corner of Prospect Avenue and East 36th Street. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/01/30/health-care-hub-planned-near-downtown/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 4Mar 4 Warner & Swasey is on the March 06 Euclid Corridor design review agenda, seeking schematic approval
March 4Mar 4 So is WXZ Development's Monmouth Building Renovation project on Euclid (uptown). Schematic approval. This after I scolded them in another thread earlier today (I am sure their ears are burning) for not moving forward on a number of planned development projects. Still they have a couple of projects where they have had final city approval for a long time (more than a year) and still no movement.
March 4Mar 4 W&S is the same as has been reported. Monmouth is just a rehab of the existing building. Not yet the proposed addition in back. That's what I was hoping to see. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 4Mar 4 1 hour ago, KJP said: W&S is the same as has been reported. Monmouth is just a rehab of the existing building. Not yet the proposed addition in back. That's what I was hoping to see. It will be interesting to see if WXZ reveals its plans and timeline as part of its presentation. Maybe they are now planning to do this in phases with the renovation first. Of course, having to mobilize twice does seem to be a waste of money, but maybe they can’t get funding for the whole project at the current time. I guess we’ll see.
March 9Mar 9 Warner & Swasey redevelopment on precipice of becoming reality By Ian McDaniel / March 9, 2025 A coalition of developers from throughout the state of Ohio assembled at Cleveland City Hall Friday to discuss the transformation of the abandoned Warner & Swasey building in Midtown Cleveland. A project seven years in the making, representatives from developer Pennrose LLC’s Cincinnati office, architect Moody Nolan of Columbus and Midtown Cleveland Inc. sought schematic approval for the adaptive reuse project. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/03/09/warner-swasey-redevelopment-on-precipice-of-becoming-reality/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 10Mar 10 Midtown Collaboration Center getting its finishing touches (3-9-25) Carnegie signage at Foundry Lofts Edited March 10Mar 10 by sonisharri
March 13Mar 13 Ten acre former American Sugar site hits the market. 😯 https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/old-american-sugar-land-midtown-area-hits-market?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter-DontMiss-20250313 The site is zoned as a Midtown Mixed-Use District (MMUD), Pofok said. That means it could be used for a wide variety of purposes, including light industrial, health care, retail or even multi-family residential development. He predicts it won’t be a manufacturing site, however. “When you look at trying to acquire 10.31 acres in Midtown, with all the transformation that has occurred in that area, an older manufacturing processing facility isn't the highest and best use anymore,” Pofok said. “It likely converts to an institutional or potentially maybe a multi-family type situation, whether it's Cleveland Clinic, University (Hospitals), Case Western (Reserve University) or any spinoffs from some of the research and development of these institutions.” My hovercraft is full of eels
March 13Mar 13 Can anyone hypothesize why Euclid Avenue is BOOMING in Downtown and University Circle but the stretch in between has seen no real new developments consistently since 2008?
March 13Mar 13 2 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said: Can anyone hypothesize why Euclid Avenue is BOOMING in Downtown and University Circle but the stretch in between has seen no real new developments consistently since 2008? I mean, not to get too spicy, but because we built BRT instead of a subway or streetcar... 38 minutes ago, roman totale XVII said: Ten acre former American Sugar site hits the market. 😯 https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/old-american-sugar-land-midtown-area-hits-market?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter-DontMiss-20250313 The site is zoned as a Midtown Mixed-Use District (MMUD), Pofok said. That means it could be used for a wide variety of purposes, including light industrial, health care, retail or even multi-family residential development. He predicts it won’t be a manufacturing site, however. “When you look at trying to acquire 10.31 acres in Midtown, with all the transformation that has occurred in that area, an older manufacturing processing facility isn't the highest and best use anymore,” Pofok said. “It likely converts to an institutional or potentially maybe a multi-family type situation, whether it's Cleveland Clinic, University (Hospitals), Case Western (Reserve University) or any spinoffs from some of the research and development of these institutions.” That's right across from the new Cleveland Foundation headquarters. Very much a potentially game changing development for Midtown. Looking forward to whatever comes next.
March 13Mar 13 38 minutes ago, Ethan said: I mean, not to get too spicy, but because we built BRT instead of a subway or streetcar... Yes! Or - hear me out - elevated light rail. A Skytrain system along the Euclid Avenue corridor would be MUCH faster than a streetcar, and much less expensive than a subway. (I'd still argue for subway downtown, but if we had to settle for a Prospect Ave alignment, elevated light rail would make sense. I assume elevated rail would be a non-starter on Euclid through Playhouse Sq.) When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
March 13Mar 13 1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said: Can anyone hypothesize why Euclid Avenue is BOOMING in Downtown and University Circle but the stretch in between has seen no real new developments consistently since 2008? Dealer Tire HQ, Foundry Lofts, Tru Hotel, UH Children’s Hospital, Cleveland Foundation HQ, Midtown Collaboration Center (one post above your post), Baker Electric, I mean this is the Midtown thread it’s literally a rundown of all new development between UC and Downtown
March 13Mar 13 4 minutes ago, bumsquare said: Dealer Tire HQ, Foundry Lofts, Tru Hotel, UH Children’s Hospital, Cleveland Foundation HQ, Midtown Collaboration Center (one post above your post), Baker Electric, I mean this is the Midtown thread it’s literally a rundown of all new development between UC and Downtown Link 59, Church Square Commons, townhomes at East 73rd
March 13Mar 13 1 hour ago, Boomerang_Brian said: Yes! Or - hear me out - elevated light rail. A Skytrain system along the Euclid Avenue corridor would be MUCH faster than a streetcar, and much less expensive than a subway. (I'd still argue for subway downtown, but if we had to settle for a Prospect Ave alignment, elevated light rail would make sense. I assume elevated rail would be a non-starter on Euclid through Playhouse Sq.)
March 13Mar 13 1 hour ago, bumsquare said: Dealer Tire HQ, Foundry Lofts, Tru Hotel, UH Children’s Hospital, Cleveland Foundation HQ, Midtown Collaboration Center (one post above your post), Baker Electric, I mean this is the Midtown thread it’s literally a rundown of all new development between UC and Downtown In 17 Years you named 9 developments, and 4 of those 9 got built around the same time (Cle Foundation and Midtown Collab) (Link 59 UH). So for a stretch from 30th and Euclid to 89th there were 9 newly built developments. I'm not trying to be a negative person but it seems like, especially with those numbers, that it is much more of a struggle to get projects off of the ground vs. other sections of Euclid and I'm confused as to why. Even residential projects are slow to build and those pop up all over the place AROUND Midtown. Like be honest with ourselves Euclid is our main street and this LONG stretch feels so barren and empty with developments that, whenever they are finally built, aren't welcoming or encourage pedestrians to traverse it. What's worse is the edges of Euclid accomplish just that, they are lively and walkable. I simply want to know WHY this section lags dramatically behind the rest of Euclid. Edited March 13Mar 13 by MyPhoneDead
March 13Mar 13 What is the purchasing power of the neighborhoods within 1-mile of Euclid Ave in Midtown? Anyone who is a tenant, employee or customer of the new developments along Euclid in Midtown is likely coming from much farther away than 1 mile. So most are driving. No pedestrian activity. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 13Mar 13 1 hour ago, Chris314 said: That Simpsons episode set good transit investment back decades. (Although, to be fair, monorails do suck. But the stank rubs off on good projects. What works? Vancouver’s Skytrain.) When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
March 13Mar 13 42 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: That Simpsons episode set good transit investment back decades. (Although, to be fair, monorails do suck. But the stank rubs off on good projects. What works? Vancouver’s Skytrain.) A very pro monorail came on this site a few years back. He had not seen this Simpson’s episode haha
March 13Mar 13 49 minutes ago, KJP said: What is the purchasing power of the neighborhoods within 1-mile of Euclid Ave in Midtown? Anyone who is a tenant, employee or customer of the new developments along Euclid in Midtown is likely coming from much farther away than 1 mile. So most are driving. No pedestrian activity. Which makes it strange to me that there has been no projects to change that or if there have been proposals they've struggled to get off the ground. There has been VERY little spill over development from UC or downtown. Over the past 17 years I would've imagined they would have slowly built from downtown to UC and by now it could've been a decent amount of vibrancy and connectivity.
March 13Mar 13 50 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: That Simpsons episode set good transit investment back decades. (Although, to be fair, monorails do suck. But the stank rubs off on good projects. What works? Vancouver’s Skytrain.) I think monorails could be successful as a circulator of sorts connecting you to various attractions but I think it is stuck between being cheaper than rail but more expensive than a busi without much added benefit vs having a bus with dedicated bus lanes
March 13Mar 13 6 minutes ago, surfohio said: A very pro monorail came on this site a few years back. He had not seen this Simpson’s episode haha I remember the monorail person, but I don’t remember them being unaware of that Simpsons episode (one of the all time greats, despite it being so so wrong about transit projects). That’s funny! But yeah, there’s a reason none of the many countries that do build good rail transit projects are building monorails. Subway metro, elevated metro, modern streetcar - all better options than monorail. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
March 13Mar 13 4 hours ago, bumsquare said: Dealer Tire HQ, Foundry Lofts, Tru Hotel, UH Children’s Hospital, Cleveland Foundation HQ, Midtown Collaboration Center (one post above your post), Baker Electric, I mean this is the Midtown thread it’s literally a rundown of all new development between UC and Downtown Thats a lot. But think of it this way, the area basically started from scratch because of urban renewal programs that tore the entire area down. It’s going to take a lot more to make it feel like a vibrant area again.
March 14Mar 14 7 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: Yes! Or - hear me out - elevated light rail. A Skytrain system along the Euclid Avenue corridor would be MUCH faster than a streetcar, and much less expensive than a subway. (I'd still argue for subway downtown, but if we had to settle for a Prospect Ave alignment, elevated light rail would make sense. I assume elevated rail would be a non-starter on Euclid through Playhouse Sq.) LOL, you will need someone to say, "Manténgase alejado de las puertas," after each stop.
March 14Mar 14 3 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said: Subway metro, elevated metro, modern streetcar - all better options than monorail. I think hearing an elevated train go by every few minutes would help make midtown feel a little less empty. The HealthLine is very quiet. On the flip side, it would probably be cheaper to build a (good) streetcar, separated from car traffic. Elevated rail would have to be built over the tracks at E 55th, then probably descend into a subway after the innerbelt. A streetcar could continue at-grade through downtown if that was the most feasible choice. I've always thought elevated rail would be better for reinvigorating a wide street like St. Clair, although I'm sure the folks at St. Vitus would have some things to say about it ;)
March 14Mar 14 9 hours ago, sonisharri said: I think hearing an elevated train go by every few minutes would help make midtown feel a little less empty. The HealthLine is very quiet. On the flip side, it would probably be cheaper to build a (good) streetcar, separated from car traffic. Elevated rail would have to be built over the tracks at E 55th, then probably descend into a subway after the innerbelt. A streetcar could continue at-grade through downtown if that was the most feasible choice. I've always thought elevated rail would be better for reinvigorating a wide street like St. Clair, although I'm sure the folks at St. Vitus would have some things to say about it ;) Unfortunately we had an amazing chance for the People Mover when we gave the already awarded money back to US DOT. After Perk Cleveland has a history of being blessed with bad decisions by local elected officials and self-appointed opinion makers who seemed to hasten the decline at every turn. Btw Miami then got our award. While Detroit’s and Miami’s monorails seemed to languish for many years look at them now as they serve as the base for other transit expansions. https://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/798
March 14Mar 14 ^ unfortunately cleveland has a long history of of turning away major transit upgrade opportunities. of all of them, i’m least bummed about nixing the people mover. personally i’m always pining for a west blvd to e105 detroit-superior dream subway as most forward thinking and most bang for the buck. its a gimme. err, umm, except for the $$$ part. 🤖 Edited March 14Mar 14 by mrnyc
March 16Mar 16 I apologize if this is a silly question but since GE demolished what was, to me, a very handsome set of structures at 1814 E. 45th St, does anyone know if there is any plans for the site to be developed in the near future? So much of the urban aspect to midtown has been demolished for very suburban, very bland and ugly replacements or even parking lots and this was a demolition that really hit me in the gut. If there is something in the works I'd like to throw my tiny voice in the ring for something that's at least made of brick damnit, and is set against the street. i think we can all agree that for the love of God no more link59s or tru hiltons. Edited March 16Mar 16 by FutureboyWonder Wurdz hard
March 17Mar 17 23 hours ago, FutureboyWonder said: I apologize if this is a silly question but since GE demolished what was, to me, a very handsome set of structures at 1814 E. 45th St, does anyone know if there is any plans for the site to be developed in the near future? So much of the urban aspect to midtown has been demolished for very suburban, very bland and ugly replacements or even parking lots and this was a demolition that really hit me in the gut. If there is something in the works I'd like to throw my tiny voice in the ring for something that's at least made of brick damnit, and is set against the street. i think we can all agree that for the love of God no more link59s or tru hiltons. I learned this from a building owner across the street from the GE site - the building itself was radioactive due to the decades of manufacturing there; instead of hauling off the debris to be disposed of as hazardous materials, it was all stuffed into the underground parking structure then capped with gravel to save cost. So nothing will be getting developed there, probably ever, without significant public assistance to dig up all the hazardous construction debris and dispose of it properly somewhere else. A mind-boggling outcome.
March 17Mar 17 31 minutes ago, ASP1984 said: I learned this from a building owner across the street from the GE site - the building itself was radioactive due to the decades of manufacturing there; instead of hauling off the debris to be disposed of as hazardous materials, it was all stuffed into the underground parking structure then capped with gravel to save cost. So nothing will be getting developed there, probably ever, without significant public assistance to dig up all the hazardous construction debris and dispose of it properly somewhere else. A mind-boggling outcome. Approximately when did this take place? Even it's pre-1980, GE would have significant liablity for the cleanup. Post-1980 even moreso.
March 17Mar 17 4 minutes ago, E Rocc said: Approximately when did this take place? Even it's pre-1980, GE would have significant liablity for the cleanup. Post-1980 even moreso. Yeah I was kinda shocked to hear it but this was per his conversations with the site super so its legit. If your question is when did it get demolished, within the last two years.
March 17Mar 17 Just now, ASP1984 said: Yeah I was kinda shocked to hear it but this was per his conversations with the site super so its legit. If your question is when did it get demolished, within the last two years. I am surprised they got away with that. It's pretty much precisely contrary to the letter and intent of several federal laws. While I'm a major critic of CERCLA requirements, this seems to be exactly the kind of thing that got them implemented.
March 17Mar 17 1 minute ago, E Rocc said: I am surprised they got away with that. It's pretty much precisely contrary to the letter and intent of several federal laws. While I'm a major critic of CERCLA requirements, this seems to be exactly the kind of thing that got them implemented. As I understand it we now get to pick and choose which federal laws we may or may not want to obey.
March 17Mar 17 48 minutes ago, ASP1984 said: I learned this from a building owner across the street from the GE site - the building itself was radioactive due to the decades of manufacturing there; instead of hauling off the debris to be disposed of as hazardous materials, it was all stuffed into the underground parking structure then capped with gravel to save cost. So nothing will be getting developed there, probably ever, without significant public assistance to dig up all the hazardous construction debris and dispose of it properly somewhere else. A mind-boggling outcome. My understanding of why GE demolished (rather than sold or converted) the building was mainly because of mercury contamination, not radioactivity. Mercury permeated the wooden floors in the building. The problem occured in almost all their lamp-production facilities. The below citation describes the problem. https://semspub.epa.gov/work/02/39191.pdf Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
March 17Mar 17 8 minutes ago, Dougal said: My understanding of why GE demolished (rather than sold or converted) the building was mainly because of mercury contamination, not radioactivity. Mercury permeated the wooden floors in the building. The problem occured in almost all their lamp-production facilities. The below citation describes the problem. https://semspub.epa.gov/work/02/39191.pdf Thanks. Loose use of the term "radioactivity" - hazardous material people can't be exposed to that should have been disposed of elsewhere.
March 17Mar 17 33 minutes ago, Htsguy said: As I understand it we now get to pick and choose which federal laws we may or may not want to obey. I suppose if they put a Biden family member on the board at the time of demolition, that was the case.
March 18Mar 18 People could witness the demolition and some, including @GISguy photographed it. Was it demo'd into the basement? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 18Mar 18 20 hours ago, ASP1984 said: Thanks. Loose use of the term "radioactivity" - hazardous material people can't be exposed to that should have been disposed of elsewhere. Got it. My industrial/chemical safety background kicking in and causing me to nit pick. :) The GE plant and a lot of the Midtown properties likely got demoed due to the First Law of Non-historical Rehab: It needs to cost less than the building is going to be worth. That's not simply repairing wear, tear, and more overt damage, but bringing things up to code. Asbestos and ADA in particular can add significant costs to a project.
March 18Mar 18 2 hours ago, KJP said: People could witness the demolition and some, including @GISguy photographed it. Was it demo'd into the basement? I can't say for sure - a large part of the structure was still up when I was there and what came down was sectioned out into brick piles for (what I assume was) salvage. FWIW, imagery from Fall 2023 shows trucks and dumpsters being used.
March 21Mar 21 Partial Demolition approved. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/demo-greenlit-warner-swasey-redevelopment-project
March 24Mar 24 On 3/17/2025 at 11:46 AM, Dougal said: My understanding of why GE demolished (rather than sold or converted) the building was mainly because of mercury contamination, not radioactivity. Mercury permeated the wooden floors in the building. The problem occured in almost all their lamp-production facilities. The below citation describes the problem. https://semspub.epa.gov/work/02/39191.pdf there was a mercury thermometer factory in the downtown manhattan seaport that is a lot they are trying to build apts on. supposedly its remediated. so keep hope alive the ge site can be redeveloped.
March 27Mar 27 The views are going to be amazing from Warner Swasey, or so I hear. And talk about wide open (but will need rehabbed) floor plates.
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