^The problem with that however is, if free parking proves to be a huge draw in Midtown, then that's they type of development we can expect to see. Lets face it, there is plenty of room in Midtown to develop office buildings with huge asphalt parking lots. Even if the lots are hidden behind the buildings, we are not creating any type of density whatsoever that you should around a brand new BRT line.

 

And we'll end up with a traffic nightmare.

 

Then we'll have more folks using the HealthLine

 

Really, this could go on and on. While it is fine to call for a maximum number of parking spaces per 1,000 s.f., if the land costs are low enough right now for lower density development and surface parking, the best that can legally be done is to call for buildings to come to the property line. Over time, the space behind low-slung buildings that is used for parking will be built upon as property values rise with the attraction of new businesses.

 

Density doesn't come overnight in non-CBDs. Even edge cities like Independence began with a few four-story buildings and surface parking. Only later were taller buildings and parking garages constructed.

Yep, and Independence is still a hot suburban mess.  Just a hot suburban mess with parking garages.  Once a place is designed for the automobile, it's hard to undo that.

Yes and no.  I think that it's quite possible design wise, if not legally, to plan projects so that they are designed around autos today, but so that they can be phased into a denser form.  But it has to be thought out ahead of time- the neighborhood plan would need to proscribe that a "densification strategy" (my term) be a part of any development and define what that would look like, codify it somehow(the legality of such a code is what I'm unsure of), and then have an oversight body with the balls to enforce it.

Landscaped setbacks and distributed surface parking are probably two of the hardest parts of auto-oriented site planning to undue and I think this project is OK on those two counts.  If there were ever sufficient demand, Geis & co. could build some structured parking on some of that large internal surface lot to free up land for new leasable space.  Definitely good to plan for that kind of future...but it's hard to imagine it anytime soon. 

 

Even without high initial density, there's still a lot to be done to focus on pedestrian/transit rider environment so at least people have viable options other than driving [preaching to the choir, I know].

I wonder if the city of Cleveland could figure out a way to create a massive parking structure that offered abundant and free parking, the city could attract more companies from the burbs/keep more companies from moving. Find some way to offset the costs with new income tax coming in by way of employee hiring..

 

It may also make paid surface lots seem less appealing so perhaps the owners would be more open to developing them into buildings.

The demo crane is raised to take down the two vacant towers on the south side of Euclid near E. 75th-ish. Too bad they couldn't save those, they were a piece of Euclid history.

The demo crane is raised to take down the two vacant towers on the south side of Euclid near E. 75th-ish. Too bad they couldn't save those, they were a piece of Euclid history.

 

What is going in the place of those?

^see the demo thread

Some more cleanup in Midtown:

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20101124/FREE/101129947

The Agora Theater getting some tax $$$:

 

3 Historic Ohio Buildings Will Benefit from Asbestos Removal Funds

 

On Monday, Ohio state officials released the names of three historic buildings that will benefit from Ohio’s Brownfield Revolving Loan Fund – Toledo’s Madison Building, Cleveland’s Agora Theater, and Youngstown State University’s Garfield Building.  The three will each receive $200,000 to help remove asbestos from the buildings.

 

http://www.asbestos.net/news/2011/01/05/3-historic-ohio-buildings-will-benefit-from-asbestos-removal-funds

 

Hopefully.... this grant does not facilitate its demolition

Hopefully.... this grant does not facilitate its demolition

 

Don't think MidTown and Dick Pace plan on demo'ing this Agora building. Can't speak to the others.

It's a shame that the area around the Agora won't be developed into a neighborhood.  It could do really well with the college crowd.  Alas.

I think they're building college housing as fast as the market will allow -- just not on that section of Euclid.

While this is an old press release, it may answer whether this project is doomed by the state's general budget deficit (see bold red text). From this press release, I don't think it is. The general fund and the capital budget are legally separate pots of money, so my thought is that it's unlikely that this project will be canceled. And, since this project will unite two hospitals into one, it's likely that this capital cost will reduce operating costs in the state's deficit-ridden general fund:

 

http://b9962ed140049a571a710839f1f71c989aaf09ce.gripelements.com/pdf/news-and-events/press-releases/20090702-cleveland-hospital.pdf

 

For immediate release: July 2, 2009

Contact: Trudy Sharp, Communications Director

Ohio Department of Mental Health

Office (614) 466-5145/ Cell (614) 271-4421

[email protected]

State to build psychiatric hospital in Cleveland's Midtown

 

The Ohio Department of Mental Health, in collaboration with the City of Cleveland, has identified

a site for its new regional psychiatric hospital on the Midtown Health Line in the vicinity of Euclid

Avenue and East 59th Street. After the state-city agreement is finalized, design and construction

will take up to four years.

 

"The City of Cleveland has been instrumental in helping the state determine the best site for this

hospital and we are very grateful for their continued support of this project," said Governor Ted

Strickland. "Through this partnership we will be able to provide improved services to patients and

offer easy access for family and friends visiting the facility."

 

When opened, the new hospital will care for patients currently receiving services at the two aging

facilities of Northcoast Behavioral Healthcare, the 86-year-old 10-story tower in Cleveland and the

multiple buildings located in Northfield. The size of the new hospital will accommodate a

comparable number of patients as are currently served in the two locations combined. The

Midtown site will be well-served by public transportation.

 

"Moving forward with this project is very positive news. Citizens of Northeast Ohio will benefit

through continued quality care in a clinically modern psychiatric hospital," said ODMH Director

Sandra Stephenson. "This consolidated facility will substantially benefit the department with

longterm cost savings through efficiencies in maintenance and overhead. Additionally, the hospital will

be a LEED (Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design) certified green building, using

strategies aimed at improving energy efficiency, indoor environmental quality and stewardship of

our resources."

 

The state will pay $150,000 per acre for 14 acres that are "shovel-ready." The City of Cleveland

will garner tax revenue and jobs will be created or maintained in Northeast Ohio.

 

"I am pleased that the State of Ohio is pursuing this site in the City of Cleveland for a

consolidated state-of-the-art regional facility. We will continue to work with the state toward the

fulfillment of this goal," said Mayor Frank G. Jackson.

 

Funding for the hospital was appropriated in previous budget cycles through the state's capital

spending plan. The process to find a site that was appropriate and feasible involved the

collaboration of many people, including the Mayor's office, Cuyahoga County Commissioners,

Northeast Ohio legislators and other local and state officials.

 

- 30 -

Of all the failed and abandoned projects, why can't this be one of them:(

Depending on how they design it (on the street, with some public uses along the sidewalk, and no blank walls facing Euclid or even the sidestreets) I don't have a problem with it.

 

If they're going to build a fortress set back from the street, then put it someplace else.

from what i heard, its not financial reasons this project is in limbo... but it is very much in limbo.

What are the reasons?

 

Didnt know about this.

One of the places to shop in Midtown appears as though it's going to be getting a facelift. I wonder how extensive and historically accurate this will be. There's some great detail on this bldg at 5005 Euclid Ave.

 

"Cleveland Construction will manage the complete renovations of the 166,721 square-foot multiple-story structure along with the addition of a new entrance for the buildings office workers."

 

http://www.clevelandconstruction.com/InteriorDetail.aspx?ProjectID=94

 

 

Interesting news!

One of the places to shop in Midtown appears as though it's going to be getting a facelift.

 

Referring to The Salvation Army as "one of the places to shop" is like referring to a soup kitchen as a place to eat.

 

ummmm, ok

Fair enough... but I've been in there and it's comparable to most thrift stores.

Local leaders speak out against decision not to build psychiatric hospital in Cleveland

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/03/local_leaders_speak_out_agains.html

 

Snippets:

 

Cleveland Mayor Frank Jackson, Cuyahoga County Executive Ed FitzGerald, Ohio House Minority Leader Armond Budish and State Rep. Sandra Williams insisted on Thursday that Kasich should reverse course and bring the hospital back to Cleveland.

 

"We're not willing to accept anything else," Jackson said at the news conference.

 

FitzGerald said the decision not to build the hospital in Cleveland is bad public policy because it undermines efforts by government agencies to work cooperatively while hurting the needs of vulnerable citizens.

They're not going to accept anything else?  Actually, Frank, you will.

This will clearly have Kasich shaking in his boots...and I am sure he justifies this in his own mind by reflecting that he is an equal opportunity screwer....take away the Cincy streetcar and Cleveland's mental hospital.  This will be a vacant lot for years to come.

No crystal ball, but I'm not sure it will be vacant all that long.  The article also mentions several million the city already spent there for site prep.  Between that and the BRT and the Clinic nearby, it has plenty going for it. 

 

My concern is that so many leaders on so many levels, particularly Fitzgerald, are dead set on making this a social services district.  I just think those needs could be met in a much less destructive way, planning-wise.  Euclid should be the Main Street of all Cleveland residents, of all area residents... not just the most needy and vulnerable. 

 

Concentrating our problems on Main Street isn't going to help anyone, including the needy and vulnerable.  They deserve a city they can be proud of as much as anyone else does.  And they need their city to attract new investment, new jobs, new tax base.  A Main Street lined with various crisis centers isn't going to get us there.  This isn't about hiding our problems, or slighting those in our community who have problems... it's about putting our best foot forward, as a community, so that our most vulnerable residents can one day have better lives all around.   

Kasich continues to show his anti-urban bias. But this is a continuation of a similar anti-urban bias in Ohio policies for many decades and by both political parties. I'm hopeful this speaking out is only a start by Ohio's urban leaders who can and should take back their state from the rural and exurban interests.

Needed: private developer + private financing.  "We" can help fill any slight shortfalls through tax breaks, credits, incentives, grants, etc.  But the horse has to come before the horse.  For instance, "we" can insist that the lot at 55th and Euclid is zoned for a mixed use development replete with stores, residences, a hockey arena, and a 5 star hotel, all connected by light rail.  "We" can zone it for that particular purpose.  "We" can refuse variances and at least try to fight off the lawsuits which ensue (even though defeat would be nearly certain).  "We" can set whatever platitudes we want, but "we" can only do so much.  All that said, there is nothing wrong with advocating for those platitutes and dreaming that one day they will be within reach.

But if "we" instead advocate for social services and pedestrian-unfriendly development all along Main Street, it seems likely we'll get just that.  So far we have.  "We" begged Applied Industrial to put their fortress where they did.  "We" said forget Strongsville, we got your Strongsville right here on Euclid a few blocks from CSU.  You're talking about restrictions but I'm talking about active solicitation.  Demanding this facility on this site is just one more sterling example.  There are entire threads here bemoaning the car-centric suburban impact of all the hospitals on Euclid.  Do we really believe this one would be all that different?  Why double down on a recognized problem?  I'd otherwise never suggest this, but the city/county/CDC's efforts here have been so misguided that maybe we'd be better served by a hands-off libertarian approach. 

Hopefully.... this grant does not facilitate its demolition

 

Don't think MidTown and Dick Pace plan on demo'ing this Agora building. Can't speak to the others.

 

I was at the CPC meeting on March 18th and specifically asked them about the future of the Agora. Reps told me that they are not planning on demoing it and they have the owners on board for an eventual renovation and will be used as a concert hall. I asked if there's a specific time for it; they said no timetable was set but "it is down the road".

 

(decided to add a couple other notes regarding midtown from the meeting, since the Cleveland Health Tech Corridor consortium gave a presentation, consisting of Midtown, GCP, Team NEO, Cleveland Found.):

 

They want to eventually demo 6611 Euclid (it's still owned privately), and eventually brand the surrounding area as the "Central Park of the HTC". 6611 is next to Dunham Tavern and a Green Corps project.

 

The presentation was the last one of a nearly 3 hour meeting, so I wasn't paying as much attention..  :lol:

What's a CPC?

Thanks for the report Skorasaurus.  I believe 6611 Euclid is owned by RTA unless they finally sold it off.  Last I heard they were going to sell it to a backer of Dunham so it (6611) could be demoed and the Dunham open space expanded.  I think the MidTown masterplan we discussed earlier also envisioned this block as an organizing green space for the area.  Not sure I really get the concept, but doesn't seem like there's a whole lot of other interest in 6611 after what RTA did to it to widen Euclid, and that building is a major eyesore.

What's a CPC?

 

Cleveland Planning Commission.

Regarding Dunham Tavern Park and 6611 Euclid.  I happen to agree with the Cleveland area history blog -- that that 6611 should be considered a supporting structure for Dunham Tavern.  Meaning that Dunham is remarkable not only because it is the oldest building in the City, but also because it survived for so long on Euclid ave -- when the rest of the nearby real estate was sold off to create multilevel industrial buildings.

 

http://www.clevelandareahistory.com/2011/03/cincinnati-and-cleveland.html

 

I do support the concept of the central park of HTC -- but i think it can be had by acquiring other parcels than 6611.

Who would use 6611? Has anyone offered to take over this building? If not, how long can this mammoth structure be allowed to sit there unused and rotting? Or is it's purpose to serve as a kind of artwork form for comparison purposes with the Dunham Tavern? If that's its function, then I couldn't disagree more with the history blog. Buildings exist to provide form AND function, and a huge rotting building contributes nothing to the economy, tax base, vitality and livability of a city.

Please level 6611. I can't imagine how a great company like Gallucci's who has invested a lifetime of service to the community has had to endure that eyesore all of these years. Those who live and work within a stones throw of that building should decide it's fate.

Regarding Dunham Tavern Park and 6611 Euclid.  I happen to agree with the Cleveland area history blog -- that that 6611 should be considered a supporting structure for Dunham Tavern.  Meaning that Dunham is remarkable not only because it is the oldest building in the City, but also because it survived for so long on Euclid ave -- when the rest of the nearby real estate was sold off to create multilevel industrial buildings.

 

http://www.clevelandareahistory.com/2011/03/cincinnati-and-cleveland.html

 

I do support the concept of the central park of HTC -- but i think it can be had by acquiring other parcels than 6611.

 

I hear you, I would definitely much rather see 6611 get redeveloped sometime soon than demoed.  It would be an amazing juxtaposition with Dunham Tavern.  I guess most of us are just getting impatient and would rather see green space at this point than that empty hulk sit there for another 5-10+ years.  I have no idea who else has shown interest in the building or how much money they would pay but certainly haven't heard anything encouraging.

 

It's frustrating, because in its pre-Euclid Corridor condition, 6611 and the shorter building to its west had great facades and didn't show so much visible distress (if I'm remembering correctly).  One wonders if RTA couldn't have found a more elegant solution than eating that building's face and demolishing its neighbor, such as moving the E65th station a block west.  Or just not having that station at all, considering how close the next ones are in either direction.

As it stands now, it is a sore thumb.  I just wonder why they wouldn't just demo it when they tore the facade off.  I rarely support a demo, but this one would just be the right thing to do no matter where our imagination could possibly take us.  At present, the building is symbolic of the current negativity towards MidTown and perhaps its demo may lead to a much needed change in perception, even if it would have little to no immediate effect on reality.

Agreed.  Not clear why they chose to ruin the structure without clearing the land.

RTA was hoping a developer would buy and redevelop the shell as a large and prominent TOD.  With hindsight it clearly hasn't worked out (not yet anyway), but I don't blame RTA for trying this out as an alternative to a full demo. It's an eyesore, but I doubt it's really inhibiting any other development in the area.

No.... but it is symbolic in a bad way.  This is exactly what the naysayers expect and want to see when they drive down Euclid.

Abandoned and partially-demo'd hulks most certainly impede development.

I was thinking, which correct me if I'm wrong, but because the development is being stopped and moved to Summit County, that means all the buildings we tore down were torn down for nothing?

^Maybe.  Some people in town seemed pretty convinced that the large building on that site (not to be confused with the RTA owned shell) could viably be repurposed, but I guess we'll never know now.

 

No.... but it is symbolic in a bad way.  This is exactly what the naysayers expect and want to see when they drive down Euclid.

 

I totally agree at this point, unless a serious developer as a serious proposal right now.  This disposition process has been going on for years now.

 

Really, it's just annoying that the existing buildings were altered.  Maybe RTA had to, or maybe the stop could have been relocated and the street didn't have to be widened, who knows.  Just frustrating to butcher and ultimately demolish handsome buildings that from the outside at least seemed like great conversion candidates and readymade TOD before the project.

 

Abandoned and partially-demo'd hulks most certainly impede development.

 

We're not talking about such buildings in general, we're talking about this one, on this site, pretty much across the street from one of the biggest for-profit investments in the corridor in a long time, which clearly wasn't impeded.  Anyway, if you think the SW quadrant of Shaker Square is increasingly untenable now, I'd love to hear your ideas for luring development here ;)

Hts121 you're exactly right.  Demo isn't something we should take lightly, but this one has little to no benefits, and lots of detriments to the quality and appearance of Midtown.

We're not talking about such buildings in general, we're talking about this one, on this site, pretty much across the street from one of the biggest for-profit investments in the corridor in a long time, which clearly wasn't impeded.  Anyway, if you think the SW quadrant of Shaker Square is increasingly untenable now, I'd love to hear your ideas for luring development here ;)

 

Idea #1:  Don't leave this thing standing in its current condition.

Good thing you didn't have your finger on the button for 668 Euclid when it was a hulking, scary, symbolic eyesore for all those years  :-P

 

Geez, anyway, I agree it needs to come down at this point.

 

For kicks, it's fun to look back at the HealthLine thread when RTA was announcing its plans for 6611 Euclid- about page 34: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2840.msg229923/topicseen.html#msg229923

Downtown buildings will almost always be more critical to save in my eyes. Even though I do oppose most demolition throughout the city. This building can go though.