That whole stretch of Euclid Avenue is a park, barely any structures still remaining. There is no need for terdolph park any longer my friend 

 

Some photos of the new hotel from my drive today, also of DTM's 'park'

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 20195 yr by GISguy

1 minute ago, Terdolph said:

Terdolph Park is even bigger than I thought!

 

10 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

They arent in order though! Booo lol

8 hours ago, Terdolph said:

Everything you wrote applies equally to downtown. 

 

There in nothing about this particular tenant that says "mid town", e.g. customer parking, high ceiling height, manufacturing or laboratory equipment, etc.  Everything about this tenant says "high rise" in down town.

 

Says who?

On 6/28/2019 at 5:43 PM, Terdolph said:

Building here is a huge mistake.

 

On 6/28/2019 at 5:43 PM, Terdolph said:

Building here is a huge mistake.

I agree with you and I hope the lawsuit succeeds. That parcel could have been used for special outdoor events, concerts, antique car show, etc. in the manner of Stan Hywet Hall @ Gardens. I don't think anyone is against CF moving to Midtown just not at that specific location.

8 hours ago, shack said:

 

I agree with you and I hope the lawsuit succeeds. That parcel could have been used for special outdoor events, concerts, antique car show, etc. in the manner of Stan Hywet Hall @ Gardens. I don't think anyone is against CF moving to Midtown just not at that specific location.

It’s a lot. It’s a damn vacant lot. How long have they had it and done nothing with it? If there were all of these great, grand ideas for it, why haven’t they been done already? They’ve done nothing, absolutely nothing, with that land since they bought it. And now that it can actually be put to good use, NOW people want to act like something great is going to happen with it if it isn’t developed? Are you kidding me? If CF doesnt build there this is going to continue to be a vacant lot. 

16 minutes ago, inlovewithCLE said:

It’s a lot. It’s a damn vacant lot. How long have they had it and done nothing with it? If there were all of these great, grand ideas for it, why haven’t they been done already? They’ve done nothing, absolutely nothing, with that land since they bought it. And now that it can actually be put to good use, NOW people want to act like something great is going to happen with it if it isn’t developed? Are you kidding me? If CF doesnt build there this is going to continue to be a vacant lot. 

You are most probably correct that it will stay a vacant lot for a long time.  Dunham Tavern principals have more or less admitted they don't have the resource to do anything major with it and it's not like it is an organization that is at the top end of the charitable giving list in town.

For what it is worth I quickly reviewed a brief filed in DT lawsuit and it would appear to me that the grounds for the suit are pretty shaky.  That said the assigned judge is very unpredictable.

2 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said:

It’s a lot. It’s a damn vacant lot. How long have they had it and done nothing with it? If there were all of these great, grand ideas for it, why haven’t they been done already? They’ve done nothing, absolutely nothing, with that land since they bought it. And now that it can actually be put to good use, NOW people want to act like something great is going to happen with it if it isn’t developed? Are you kidding me? If CF doesnt build there this is going to continue to be a vacant lot. 

If I'm not mistaken they tore down some derelict building on that site. To say that they haven't done anything on that property is simply not true. 

 

 

Edited July 3, 20195 yr by shack

4 minutes ago, shack said:

If I'm not mistaken they tore down some derelict building on that site. To say that they haven't done anything on that property is simply not true. 

https://goo.gl/maps/Qe6StzdFUG1S4Ttc6

Would have made a nice residential conversion now.

2 minutes ago, w28th said:

Would have made a nice residential conversion now.

Dick Pace had plans to buy the building and do some sort of renovation to it but DTM insisted that the needed to create a "park." So here we are many years later and nothing. 

Yes, they tore down these buildings. The front of the larger building was sliced off by RTA for the Euclid Corridor project. It was proposed to be redeveloped by Cumberland but Dunham Tavern acquired it from RTA in 2012 for basically the conveyance fee. It would have made a wonderful rehab and retained some density on this once vibrant avenue.

 

On 6/7/2012 at 9:16 AM, KJP said:

Was nosing around the Web last night and found the two images below at http://www.dimitarchitects.com (where there are more images of this abandoned project). I realize the developers couldn't make a go of it at this tiny little moment in history. And now that the building will be demolished, no one will....

 

 

 

In 1954 when Euclid was the main street of the nation's 7th-largest city....

Edited July 3, 20195 yr by KJP

31 minutes ago, KJP said:

Yes, they tore down these buildings. The front of the larger building was sliced off by RTA for the Euclid Corridor project. It was proposed to be redeveloped by Cumberland but Dunham Tavern acquired it from RTA in 2012 for basically the conveyance fee. It would have made a wonderful rehab and retained some density on this once vibrant avenue.

 

 

In 1954 when Euclid was the main street of the nation's 7th-largest city....

 

Dammit KJP, why do you have to make me sad all the time with these historic photos? 

2 hours ago, ryanfrazier said:

 

Dammit KJP, why do you have to make me sad all the time with these historic photos? 

the most depressing photos are Millionaire row mansion homes that were destroyed on Euclid.  It would have been a major  tourist attraction for the city on par with the Newport mansion of Rhode Island such as the Breakers and others. Thank goodness those were saved and is well worth a visit! https://www.newportmansions.org/

Yes, I've toured most of them. But the Newport mansions were saved because Newport never grew into a major city that grew upward as it matured. After the income tax was passed in 1913, the Newport homes became unsustainable and unwanted. Nor was there any development pressure to raze them. There was on Euclid Avenue, especially after 1915 when the Euclid Avenue streetcars were no longer detoured via Prospect Avenue between East 9th and East 40th, and later East 14th to East 40th. Many Euclid Avenue mansions were donated to charities and social service organizations which either used them as offices or sold them for fundraising.

 

There has been little or no development pressure on Euclid Avenue in Midtown from the 1960s to until about 5-10 years ago. The development pressure is only going to increase. So even if this vacant lot isn't built on now, it will be someday.

Mansions are a horrible land use for a city, as is playing little house on the prairie. 

Edited July 3, 20195 yr by viscomi

27 minutes ago, viscomi said:

Mansions are a horrible land use for a city, as is playing little house on the prairie. 

The ones on the lakes shore are quite nice. The wealthy owners don't give a hoot about city land use and are willing to pay top dollar to keep their homes just as they are.

4 hours ago, viscomi said:

Mansions are a horrible land use for a city, as is playing little house on the prairie. 

I disagree.  There are wonderful examples of pre war Townhomes that are built for city living.

Sorry, I was specifically referring to Cleveland's millionaires row. Which I don't think included many if any townhome variety.

8 minutes ago, viscomi said:

Sorry, I was specifically referring to Cleveland's millionaires row. Which I don't think included many if any townhome variety.

I think there is a space in urban environments were those types of homes can prosper and be desired. Not every neighborhood, has to be high/mid rise, clustered, apartment or condo living.  Look at Hough, Ohio City and Edgewater.  Cleveland neighborhoods with stately homes.

I think mansions would be a better land use for that stretch of Euclid than what is mostly there now! Those mansions could have been turned into office space or subdivided into apartments or condos. I'm sure there are examples of this in Cleveland too, but here are a few old mansions that have been converted to offices in Cincinnati:

 

Pension Corporation of America

 

Public library branch

 

Medical office

 

really this whole block

3 minutes ago, edale said:

I think mansions would be a better land use for that stretch of Euclid than what is mostly there now! Those mansions could have been turned into office space or subdivided into apartments or condos. I'm sure there are examples of this in Cleveland too, but here are a few old mansions that have been converted to offices in Cincinnati:

 

Pension Corporation of America

 

Public library branch

 

Medical office

 

really this whole block

Many were given to corporations who sold.   I understand what you're going for, but this is a situation comparing apples to oranges. 

This has been a nice walk down memory lane, but perhaps we could get back to actual development news?

On 6/29/2019 at 3:52 PM, PoshSteve said:

When I first heard they were looking at  that site I was pretty strongly against it. Now I'm more mixed on my feelings. This area of the city does not have any large areas of greenspace. Yes, building the city back up and filling in the vacant lots is more than needed, but so are areas of recreation space larger than just corner pocket parks. The Dunham Tavern block had/has the potential to be that large, central greenspace to build a neighborhood around. Thurgood Marshall and the Nord Greenway are the closest currently, but those are quite distant and no where near walkable from this area; and League Park is rightfully focused on baseball. My initial objection was based on locating an office building on this site when there is so much vacant land, including city owned land, nearby.

 

Now with the plans released, their building as designed looks beautiful. With the green roof  and use of wood in particular,  I think it will tie in nicely with the current tavern site, and provided they interact with the tavern site and help with programming the area - along with being publicly accessible -  the Foundation being located here could in fact work towards making this block a focus to build a complete neighborhood around. My only trepidation now is with the office building planned for a later phase directly north of their building, which would in theory not be publicly accessible. 

 

I just don't want recreational park space to be forgotten as this neighborhood is being brought back. It will be much easier to plan it out now while there is still so much empty space than to try and fit it in later down the line when things are filling up.

I would have preferred a ranch house style building east of the street given the historic nature of the location. I'm glad they put the parking lot west of the street however. At least they got the wood right.

On 7/1/2019 at 3:30 PM, GISguy said:

https://pattakoslaw.com/why-is-the-cleveland-foundation-insisting-on-building-its-new-headquarters-on-the-newly-restored-dunham-tavern-museum-greenspace/?fbclid=IwAR3Qb33KOw-2VpRBFPqcqo6QtiNGN4YEXuR4aiVEb5B1JcfU1zKMRvaNNrk

 

Long link but this was an ad on fb for me, does someone want to let them know it's a lot that's been rotting away and isn't some 'newly restored greenspace'?

 

PS- I'd love to know how they targeted me for this junk post

 

I received the same thing. AI has a way of anticipating our needs and desires long before we even realize them. A sign of things to come.

Reading that crap almost makes me want to demolish the tavern itself and get them the hell off Cleveland's main street between Ohio's largest and fourth-largest employment centers. Almost.

Lets just hope Euclid Ave. doesn't take on the characteristics of a giant strip mall. The last thing this town needs is another Golden Gate. At the very least the tavern property helps break up the monotony of the asphalt jungle.

6 hours ago, shack said:

Lets just hope Euclid Ave. doesn't take on the characteristics of a giant strip mall. The last thing this town needs is another Golden Gate. At the very least the tavern property helps break up the monotony of the asphalt jungle.

 

The zoning overlay doesn't allow for this. Quite the opposite. It's one of the most advanced in the city. I wish more parts of Cleveland had this overlay.

Any plans to build up Cedar Rd? That stretch has been neglected for far too long since the last time I've been there which was a long time ago. 

One thing I don't like are the security fences build around certain companies like Pierre's Ice Cream (and Sherwin Williams research facility along the river). I understand the need for it but it makes for a very uninviting place for any pedestrian who happens to walk by. 

^You're forgetting the Applied Industrial Technologies HQ across from Cleveland Masonic! That one needs to go as well.

Security at R&D sites for food makers and other private industry like SHW is as tight as government bldg. security. Those won’t ever come down as long as they’re being used for the current purpose. 

10 hours ago, marty15 said:

Security at R&D sites for food makers and other private industry like SHW is as tight as government bldg. security. Those won’t ever come down as long as they’re being used for the current purpose. 

That's what I'm afraid of, especially for midtown. These compounds remind me of "correction facilities" minus the barbed wire.

These companies were the ones bringing jobs and attention to mid-town when it was dead. They were way ahead of the curve. They can’t be expected to change just because people don’t like their necessary security measures. There is plenty of room left in mid-town for development we all think is aesthetically pleasing so that it lessens the impact of ugly fences. 

11 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

These companies were the ones bringing jobs and attention to mid-town when it was dead. They were way ahead of the curve. They can’t be expected to change just because people don’t like their necessary security measures. There is plenty of room left in mid-town for development we all think is aesthetically pleasing so that it lessens the impact of ugly fences. 

Exactly 

^ +1 Although I will say that AIT are just a distributor and do not manufacture, nor warehouse, anything at that site, so the fortifications are not necessary. 

 

In other news there’s construction fencing and work going on at that vacant office building next to WEWS on Euclid and 30th. I assume it’s the long-mooted apartment conversion coming to life. 

If you look up through the top floor windows, you can see that the roof is entirely ripped off down to the I-beams.

 

Renderings are up on CPC's website!! My favorite is this one for the E 70 st project. LOVE the level of density being proposed on the once forgotten East side, and the design is great. My other favorite is Knez's Lakefront development at the end of 55th. This is coming from an NRP employee who is not very happy with our chosen site plan on Scranton...

Another photo

That's a very pleasant surprise. I wasn't expecting something of that scale. I hope something of that scale is what Benesch has in mind for East 55th and Euclid. 

This, the 2 55th developments, Terdolph Park redevelopment.....That whole area could look drastically different in a few short years. 

Love this project. It's exactly the kind of mid-size density that we should be building up and down the Euclid corridor (and a hundred other places too).

Looking at the picture, is there no retail? This stretch of Euclid already has missing retail space in buildings, hopefully it is some in this development. Even if it doesn't fill immediately the space is there to fill when the demand rises. I love everything else in this development.

This building isn't going to be fronting on Euclid.  It will be fronting on East 70th.  A side street with little pedestrian or vehicular traffic.  Nice for an apartment building, but it would not work for retail.

20 minutes ago, X said:

This building isn't going to be fronting on Euclid.  It will be fronting on East 70th.  A side street with little pedestrian or vehicular traffic.  Nice for an apartment building, but it would not work for retail.

Makes sense in that case

8 hours ago, KJP said:

That's a very pleasant surprise. I wasn't expecting something of that scale. I hope something of that scale is what Benesch has in mind for East 55th and Euclid. 

 

Umm @KJP are you subtly dropping some heretofore unknown news on us? What’s Benesch’s involvement at East 55th and Euclid?  Apologies in advance if I’ve missed something, but I searched the forum and the only references to Benesch are related to their intended occupancy at NuCLEus. ?