I giggle when I hear the Monroe mentioned in conversation.  Hollywood Hustler, Touchdown Jesus, Trader's World, Treasure Aisles and the Warren County Prison System.  What a hot mess...

I giggle when I hear the Monroe mentioned in conversation.  Hollywood Hustler, Touchdown Jesus, Trader's World, Treasure Aisles and the Warren County Prison System.  What a hot mess...

 

And the location for the new Cincinnati Premium Outlet Mall.... right smack dab in the middle of all those establishments!  (and on top of the drinking water for the citizens of Monroe - the parking lot runoff should add some nice flavoring to the kitchen tap!)

Okay then. Now we shall all love chinese lead and telephone operators in Bangalore, as well? Or is it okay to just worship Walmart as it puts all of the local, well-established astores out of business and actually causes job loss and decreased living standards? I understand this provides jobs, but at what cost? What resources will be wasted? How will this affect neighboring cities and businesses? How much more money are we going to have to waste on building roads and other resources in cornfields? How much more are we going to trash the natural enviroment? Ask yourself this before blindly supporting "the big new thing" next time.

Agreed.  How much valuable farm land will be left by the time we realize our current method of "growth" is unsustainable?

This opens August 6th.

I can't wait !!!!

 

/sarcasm off

 

Here's the local newspaper's story...

 

http://www.western-star.com/news/lebanon-oh-news/outlets-woo-shoppers-with-discounts-extended-hours-226658.html

List of stores at the mall.

 

Someone was right..... it's not all shoe stores...

 

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-business-news/see-what-stores-will-be-at-cincinnati-premium-outlets-227996.html

Busloads of shoppers head to outlet mall

 

Tens of thousands of shoppers soon will be arriving by 40-seat motor coach and in smaller group tours, an important part of the more than 4 million visitors expected each year after Cincinnati Premium Outlets opens Thursday.

 

"In the business of destination marketing, you cast a wide net for shoppers and you want to make it easy for them to get to you," said Michele Rothstein, senior vice president of marketing for Chelsea Property Group, developer of the $100 million outlet center.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090805/BIZ01/908060312/1055/NEWS/Busloads+of+shoppers+head+to+outlet+mall

The Monroe I-75 interchange is part of my daily commute.

 

This morning, the traffic to exit north-bound I-75 at Monroe was backed up close to a mile on the interstate.  Normally there is no backup on the interstate.  so I guess a lot of people from down Cincy way are attending today.

 

And this with an extra lane added to SR 63 this week.  They just started lated last week tearing up the side of the road, then dumped in the asphalt and a week later... a new lane.  Makes you wonder why it takes so long and so much money to widen roads.  This group did it as a side job, on the fly, in 1 week and very little money. 

 

(there have been major lane restrictions due to construction in the area, that has been causing headaches for regulars.  you would have thought that if temporarily adding lanes was this easy, they would have done it for the regulars.  I guess developers have a lot more pull than regular citizens)

The New Outlet Mall: Be Wary

http://cincinnati.blogspot.com/2009/08/new-outlet-mall-be-wary.html

 

Cincinnati's traditional media are agog over tomorrow's grand opening of Cincinnati Premium Outlets (here's the Enquirer's coverage). The media coverage--almost at a frenzied pitch--interests me, largely because I'm in the midst of reading Ellen Ruppel Shell's new book, Cheap: the High Cost of Discount Culture. I suspect that in the next few months, I'll succumb to the temptation and visit the new outlet mall. But Ruppel Shell's chapter on outlet malls ("The Outlet Gambit") should be required reading for anyone who can't wait to grab the kids, hop in the car, and drive out to Monroe.

 

...

I have no doubt that my wife will drag me to this outlet mall sometime soon.

 

I think I've mentioned this before, but I don't share any of the negativity toward this outlet mall. The Jeffersonville Outlet is over 70 miles away from me. This Monroe Outlet is around 25 miles away. It's a big improvement from where I sit.

I have no doubt that my wife will drag me to this outlet mall sometime soon.

 

Don't go today, opening day....

 

Traffic appears to be slow or stopped surrounding the entrance and exit at Cincinnati Premium Outlets off Ohio 63 at Interstate 75 today, Aug. 6, especially for those heading in from the wast or heading out of the mall driveways to Ohio 63 West toward the interstate, witnesses said.

 

Security officials said overflow parking lots have been open since around 11 a.m. and shuttles are moving shoppers to the mall....

 

--- guess I'll find another way home.  Of course, the Middletown exit is a complete mess as well.

 

http://www.western-star.com/news/lebanon-oh-business-news/parking-traffic-flow-at-new-outlets-getting-jammed-237932.html

Here's why people are going to the new mall...

 

Size of aisles, landscape attract shoppers to Cincinnati Premium Outlets

 

http://www.western-star.com/news/lebanon-oh-business-news/size-of-aisles-landscape-attract-shoppers-to-cincinnati-premium-outlets-237832.html

I love this one....mall might succeed because it's near high-end area of Monore!

 

http://www.middletownjournal.com/news/middletown-news/outlet-built-now-will-the-shoppers-spend-237669.html

 

...

 

“The mistake was putting a high-end mall in the wrong part of town,” Hall said. “But this is a high-end mall near Mason, West Chester and Monroe; those are some pretty high-end areas so the mall may make sense.”

 

...

 

Contact this reporter at (513) 705-2843 or [email protected].

 

This mall is at Exit 29, meaning that it is 29 miles from downtown Cincinnati. Downtown Dayton is at Exit 54, which is 25 miles from the mall.

 

Shouldn't it be called "Dayton Premium Outlets"?  :-D

Dayton, the Tacoma of SW Ohio.

 

BTW, that was a good excerpt from "Cheap".  I didnt know about the quality issue, but I did notice that the prices at other outlet malls didnt seem that "cheap"...they were still pretty high. 

Funny thing...

 

Drove thru interchange 29 this morning shortly before 8am.  It was the lightest traffic I've seen all summer, and this was with lane restrictions in place and construction workers working.

 

Philly Engineer - good point about the name.

I, for one, welcome our new retail overlords. :)

 

Just some random thoughts:

 

This will further eviscerate the feasibility of Cincinnati Mills, which was already dang limited. Also, it will damage Jeffersonville's viability by draining much of the demand for that kind of shopping environment from the Cincinnati market. I expect the Prime Outlets there to decline.

 

In our family, outlet malls are kind of a mini-vacation get out of town excursion. For the local Butler and Warren area, the location is superb.

 

Compared to Jeffersonville, for a Cincinnati or Dayton local the location is "eco-friendly". Driving 5-20 miles as opposed to 35-50.

 

I honestly think it will be a success.

^

But wait, theres' more!:

 

More development ahead for Monroe outlet mall

 

While the new outlet mall in Monroe hasn’t even opened yet, its developer is already looking at additional growth for the center.

 

Chelsea Property Group — developer of the Cincinnati Premium Outlets — owns another 20 acres of land around the center that it is looking to fill with a mix of users.

 

Michele Rothstein, a spokesperson with Chelsea, said the center could be surrounded by hotels, sit-down restaurants, banks, complimentary retailers or even a movie theater as development at the center along Interstate 75 continues.

 

...

We knew THAT was coming!

Massive speculative commercial development projects like this - stuff being splashed in the middle of cornfields - can go one of two ways. 1) They can develop proportionate credibility due to snowball effect and mass hypnosis of the human lemmings, and become suburban centers in their own right; or 2) they can wind up looking like the "north" Jeffersonville outlets at exit 69 on I-71 - a "self evident" stupid idea.

 

I never really get why one location takes off like a rocket with tremendous momentum and another one is 80% vacant after a couple of years.

 

US consumers are like children, having to be dazzled and stimulated by brand new, sparkling concrete and chrome and bright lights of new crap all the time. So it appears to be necessary for developers to take these massive gambles.

I looked at the rooster of stores and I saw only 5 stores worth visiting and that would be a one time deal.  nine times out of ten the store is going to have a) specially designed items b)or merchandise the was purchased and cannot be sold at the main line store or sold to another discounter (tjmaxx, etc.), c) overstock [the real reason for outlet stores] and goods that did not meet QC so cannot be sold in the main line store. 

 

Real shoppers aren't going there.  Bargain hunters who dont know fashion, but in their own minds think they do, are the only people going there.

 

Outlets are a ripoff. After gas, time driving and looking is the price for the quality and quantity of item justified.

The media frenzy surrounding this reminds me of when Forest Fair Mall opened.  I can still remember the made-for-TV shot of a dozen tuxedoed butlers riding down one of the mall's escalators (remember how they came down diagonally across the mall's grid?) with champagne glasses on trays. I remember parents taking their kids out of school just to go to the mall. These were the same parents who kept their kids home the day that big earthquake was predicted.

 

Meanwhile, Kenwood is a dump of a mall that nevertheless has the best stores in town, including Nordstrom.  There are a few cases across the country where nondescript 1960's malls somehow ended up in the richest part of town and have been renovated endless times into very odd configurations that never completely masked their humble roots.  Green Hills Mall in Nashville is a prime example of this, but it still has a better feel in the actual mall than Kenwood, which is dim and hideous in my opinion. 

 

Real shoppers aren't going there.  Bargain hunters who dont know fashion, but in their own minds think they do, are the only people going there.

 

Outlets are a ripoff. After gas, time driving and looking is the price for the quality and quantity of item justified.

 

...Monroe is the interchange with those two big "flea markets", Traders World & Turtle Creek, so I think they are going to be be getting that bargain hunting crowd. 

 

Meanwhile, Kenwood is a dump of a mall that nevertheless has the best stores in town, including Nordstrom.  There are a few cases across the country where nondescript 1960's malls somehow ended up in the richest part of town and have been renovated endless times into very odd configurations that never completely masked their humble roots.  Green Hills Mall in Nashville is a prime example of this, but it still has a better feel in the actual mall than Kenwood, which is dim and hideous in my opinion. 

 

A good example of this in Louisville is The Mall St Matthews, which was originally called just "The Mall".  It was an early Rouse Corporation design, and it had some of the same design features and graphic identity as the Salem Mall in Dayton (though it opened earlier).  This mall could have went the way of the Salem Mall, but it was located in the affluent "East End" of Louisville, so it kept getting added to and improved (to the point of adding parking structures to the site). 

 

 

It seems like Monroe is really trying to get rid of that "Armpit of SW Ohio" title I gave them a few years ago...but with the flea markets still there and the giant "Touchdown Jesus" they still hold the title comfortably.

My sister, who lives in nearby Middletown, visited the new outlet center in Monroe.

 

Her impression:  the prices are too high.

 

Not sure if all the locals will hold this opinion or not. I suspect a good number will, knowing surrounding areas as I do (economically depressed). But if they do, that does not bode well for attracting local shoppers.  The place will have to rely of enticing shoppers up from cincinnati (and away from the large Tri-county and Kenwood shopping districts) and down from Dayton (and away from the large Dayton Mall shopping district).  Given how well established and embellished these 3 shopping districts are, I'm not sure that will be an easy job for Monroe. 

 

Appart from the mall, all Monroe has to offer shoppers in the area are a couple of flea markets, and a couple of fast food places.  Now I know outlet malls are supposed to be a shopping destination in and of themselves, not dependent on surrounding businesses.  But in that case, you have to offer something that people want to drive to.  High prices are not usually considered a desirable offering.

I think people expect super cheap at Outlet's when what you really get are a few good deals and most stuff slightly cheaper than at a department store. The benefit sometime is just that you have branded stores instead of mix of brands that you find in a department stores (at least that was my experience in Williamsburg, VA which has one of the most prominent national outlet mall).

Deja vu time. This article (redacted!!) on the Factory Outlet Mall at Kings Island was published in April, 1983. It closed in the early 1990s, after several years of decline that resemble what has been happening to the Middletown Mall: large stores pulling out and store fronts going dark or increasingly being occupied by small, underfunded "ghetto" local stores.

 

Reading, PA already had factory outlets, so contrary to the story, the Kings mall was not a "first".

 

But note the grand projections of growth around the mall, that the outlet was going to be an anchor for huge retail and commercial development. "It eventually could become the largest outlet mall in the nation."

Yes, and if you've been to the Reading, PA example -- which uses old factory buildings and is pretty damn nice rehab, it's even dying.

Wow...I can remember shopping at that mall. It didn't look anything like the factory outlets built today.

I have vague memoroies of going there as a kid.  I was too young to remember what it was, but remember going to the place.  It's always bugged me because I had the image of the place in my head but didn't know what exactly it was.  Thanks for making the connection for me!

It is the building complex that is at the north dead end of Kings Island Drive. I believe that the buildings now house GE Capital.

 

It is probably not very similar to outlet malls being built today. There was no food in the place, IIRC. And it was quite compact, and completely enclosed.

 

IMO it was built as a low-budget version of enclosed shopping malls, which were starting to be replaced by open air type malls. It certainly wasn't leading any design trends.

 

My thought in posting this was that a close-in outlet mall has already been tried in the Northern Cincinnati suburbs, and failed. Of course, the developers of the Kings mall made a lot of erroneous assumptions, such as the visitors to Kings Island being receptive by default to a nearby shopping destination. And the Kings outlet was 10 years ahead of the curve on the growth of the Mason area.

 

I wonder what else this failed mall could tell us.

They had one of those enclosed outlet malls in Louisville, too, located on the east side of the Bluegrass Industrial Park, visible from I-64 (it was in Jeffersontown, for those familiar with the area).  Similar reactions...not as cheap as people expected.  I think it eventually closed and was redeveloped into something else.

It was actually a Mills Corp. location -- Kentucky Mills.

 

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=38.220389,-85.542673&spn=0.004965,0.01545&t=k&z=17

In June of '08, Oakiehigh wrote....

The one thing that bothers me about this development is the fact that their are to be 9 separate buildings (unless revised since Feb.) and ALL of them are going to be Tilt-up or Precast, (similar to Dell) which is nothing aesthetically to look at.  Most industrial/warehouses are built using this method, but alot of newer construction within the 75 corridor through Butler/Warren are turning to this for commercial. (due to it's cost and speed of construction.)   

 

To which I replied....

 

 

That got me to thinking... They are building this outlet mall in the middle of a large warehouse district currently under construction.  Does this mean that if the outlet mall fails, the buildings could be converted to warehouse usage overnight? I guess this is flexible construction. 

 

--------------------

 

So apparently they built this with a very forward thinking approach of what might happen if it fails. 

 

 

So apparently they built this with a very forward thinking approach of what might happen if it fails. 

 

Seems pretty evident.

 

Related question: where these flea markets (Trader's World, Caesars Creek, etc) are located, what were the properties supposed to be before they became flea markets? Some kind of trucking distribution hubs? Surely they weren't built just to house vendors of 99 cent tube sox and formaldehyde laced Chinese toothpaste.  :evil:

^No, they were built as flea markets.

where these flea markets (Trader's World, Caesars Creek, etc) are located, what were the properties supposed to be before they became flea markets?

 

This is my understanding...

 

In the case of Trader's World, I believe the Robinson Family built it, and still own it.  I think they are the family that ownes the house next to it (up Union road). 

 

20 years ago the area was a sod farm owned by the Robinson's. Apparently they decided to get out of the business.  They got the southern part of their sod farm annexed by Monroe and re-zoned as commercial, and began building Trader's world.  It started small, then grew to its current size.  The Robinson family must have sold off the north part of their land to "minister" Bishop where he built Solid Rock Church and a home/horse area for his son.

 

The Robinson family still lives in the old farm house between Traders World and Solid rock, with about 10 acres of land along Union road (backed by I-75).  I think they may own more land in the area.  At one time they owned most of the land in the area.  They have become very involved in RE Development, and I think were in on the Vandercar and new Mall properties in ine way or another.  They may have owned some of the land, for all I know.

 

Monroe has been upgrading sr63 on the East side of I-75.  Notice how they put in a new, nice, wide entrance way for TradersWorld, with lots of unused pavement in SR63 to serve as a turn-lane for TradersWorld. 

 

I'm sure some of the design follows best practices for intersections and traffic flow, but it still looks like overkill to me.  I strongly suspect that the Robinson family and the city of Monroe are planning for the future end of TradersWorld and the subsequent redevelopment into more commercial use.  I'm not sure of the ages of the Robinson family members.  I'm not sure if Bill Robinson is the old man, or if he is one of the sons of the original Sod Farmer.

 

There is a chance I got the family name wrong or some other details wrong, but I think the story is basically correct.

There is a chance I got the family name wrong or some other details wrong, but I think the story is basically correct.

 

Thanks for the detailed summary. Yeah, the new entrance to Traders World looks more like an industrial or business park entrance. I kind of look on flea markets as a low value use of land, like drive-in theatres. So it makes sense that Trader's World will be on the sales block as industrial land some day. Or maybe will become an annex to the outlet mall.

Since I live in the area, I've done some reading on its history.  Here's a few more insights to the land...

 

+ it was originally a swamp.  The whole area from sr63 north to Greentree rd, and east & west of I-75 for about a mile each direction.  Notice how I-75 is built up 2- feet ore more above the surrounding land.  I suspect that the 'swamp' thing was the reason.

 

+ Shaker Creek - the ditch along Union road, was dug by the Shaker community (which owned 5,000 acers of land east of Union Rd as a drainage for the swamp so they could farm that land.

 

+ Union road south of Greentree was built on top of the old Warren County canal that ran from Middletown to Lebanon.  As part of the canal, they built an overflow lake to catch all the Spring rising waters and prevent the raging water from washing away the canal thru the 'partially' reclaimed swampland.  I think the overflow area was where Solid Rock Church sits today, but I'm not sure.

 

+ So the Robinson Sod Farm covered much of the reclaimed swamp.  Even to this day, during Spring thunderstorms, the sod farm floods.  I remember last spring that the driveway to Solid Rock was underwater and not passable for a day.  The sod farm land & drive was underwater, with the water rising up into the barns. 

 

+ The land that the new Vandercar warehouses sits is part of that swamp/flood plane.  The adjust new outlet mall sits a bit higher, so it's safe from heavy rains.  But the warehouses are not.  They built a retaining pond behind the warehouses, but multiple environmental studies said they would not solve the problem.  One study said it might, so the developers (and Warren County approvers) went with that study.

 

+ Traders World and the adjacent Sod Far are both in Monroe, and zoned commercial.  Solid Rock church remains in Turtlecreek township as is the house/horse land next to it.  Then the cornfield along Union Rd from Solid Rock's house up to Greentree Rd is in the city of Monroe and zoned industrial again.  (the houses on the corners of that intersection are in the township.)    So clearly, Monroe wants to put lots of industry in the area, figuring warehouses are the best fit, and are building the infrastructure with that in mind.

 

+  The acquifilter sits right under the area, just inches below the surface.  You did down a foot and you have gushing water in the area.  You get all the way up to Greentree Rd before the land becomes firmer.  This is due to the acquifilter shrinking slightly over the year as both Monroe and Warren County water built wells there to provide water to their citizens.

 

***  all of the land under discussion is very environmentally fragile, being reclaimed swamp land that still floods routinely.  It was good for sod farming and such, but bad for buildings.  The runoff from the new mall and warehouses will be bad for the drinking water, and will concentrate the flood waters onto the remaining green spaces.  Will be a big problem to solve to build on the spot.

 

it was originally a swamp.  The whole area from sr63 north to Greentree rd, and east & west of I-75 for about a mile each direction.  Notice how I-75 is built up 2- feet ore more above the surrounding land.  I suspect that the 'swamp' thing was the reason

 

The Shaker Swamp.  Historical accounts talk about how it and the watercourses associated with it wreaked havoc on the Warren County Canal (Middletown to Lebanon).

 

Here is some recent news on the area, following up with some graphics showing whats planned:

 

 

Mason Road Butler Warren Road Extension Project to begin

 

MONROE — The city of Monroe has hired a West Chester Twp. civil engineering and surveying company to perform design work for the improvement of Mason Road and a Butler Warren Road extension.

 

 

Some graphics showing the plans for the area.  First, from the Monroe Master Plan, on the city website, one can see the new roads proposed, “Corridor 75” in yellow tint, and some familiar features labled in blue”.  One wonders why a connection between Gateway Blvd and Union Road isn’t proposed...

 

 

…next, from the Corridor 75 site, this nifty aeriel pix showing the planned “Logistics Land” of big box warehouse/distro centers.

 

 

….this is similar to the kind of development going up around Louisville due to UPS.  Cin-Day also has a good loggy business case.

 

 

"touchdown Jesus"?  lawd!  that tickles me.  Anyhooooooo, has anyone here been to the mall as of yet?

Gah, f*cking sprawl.  The urbanites just can't resist, as is evident even here on these forums.

Heck, our economy's trashed. What the h*ll else do we have to talk about?

Yes, it is all on a swamp or marsh. I ran across some old Interstate 75 construction articles, and they were having issues with the roadway sinking into the marsh. Some segments had to be rebuilt with a different sub-base.

 

Would not surprise me if these issues still persist with some developments.

The SPUI will need to be some getting used too.  And i agree with Daytonnatian. In this economy you'll take what you can get.

Heck, our economy's trashed. What the h*ll else do we have to talk about?

 

I was talking about entertaining the thought of actually going out there.  I didn't say that it was preposterous to simply talk about it.

"One wonders why a connection between Gateway Blvd and Union Road isn’t proposed"

 

The long-term plans I've seen call for the total closing for Union Road south of SR63 (replaced by Gateway road).  The plan then calls for Union Rd north of 63 to be turned into a divided 4-lane builevard, connecting to Atrium Hospital a couple of miles up the road.  Exactly how they tie Union Rd, Gateway Dr, and SR63 together, I don't know. And there is a bottleneck along the way at a cemetary and church just south of SR123.

 

I heard something interesting about the road changes..... Apparently the owner of a lot of the land in phase 2 and 3 diagram above went to the City of Monore to get the land annexed into the city so it could be more easily developed, and the landowner would make a lot of money.  After that happened, Monroe decided to change the roads and shut down Union Rd.  The landowner apparenly uses Union Rd all the time, and was very upset.  Even considering suing the city to block shutting down Union road.  Ironic, isn't it?  Petition the city to annex your land, then have the city turn around and remove your road on you.

 

The SPUI will cause an aneurysm of shock for most Ohio drivers. The layout of the intersection is just so different than anything around here. The closest one I know of is in Columbus, IN at I-65 and SR 46. I drove through it a few years ago. It gives a high-tech vibe to the roadway.

 

And, they look very risky to cross on foot or by bicycle, but the local mentality around these suburbs is so anti-human-power ("get the hell out of the road, @$$hole!!!" is a pretty popular refrain in these parts  :x) that this should be no problem at all. Only God-ordained motor vehicles will use the intersection.

The SPUI will cause an aneurysm of shock for most Ohio drivers. The layout of the intersection is just so different than anything around here. The closest one I know of is in Columbus, IN at I-65 and SR 46. I drove through it a few years ago. It gives a high-tech vibe to the roadway.

 

And, they look very risky to cross on foot or by bicycle, but the local mentality around these suburbs is so anti-human-power ("get the hell out of the road, @$$hole!!!" is a pretty popular refrain in these parts :x) that this should be no problem at all. Only God-ordained motor vehicles will use the intersection.

 

Columbus (Ohio) has at least one. Richmond, Indiana (I-70 & U.S. 127) is probably the closest to Monroe, however.