Mostly on the new Kroger, which opens TODAY!

 

Austin Landing closer to completion

 

Also planned

 

On Tuesday, Miami Twp. trustees were set to approve another 83,900 square feet in stores and eateries, including a Panera Bread restaurant, and a plan improving "pedestrian connectivity" within the 140-acre development.

 

Work has also begun on the $8.3 million Connor Group headquarters on the intersection's southeast corner of Ohio 741 and Austin Boulevard.

 

...more on the Conner Group HQ can be found

here

 

Connor Group, the third-largest owner of apartments in Cincinnati, is building a $15 million headquarters in Miamisburg, about 15 miles south of Dayton.

 

The company reached a development agreement with the city of Dayton to build on the grounds of Dayton Wright Brothers Field, just off Interstate 75 at the Austin Boulevard interchange.

 

images of the new building, which looks all crooked, sort of like how the Conner Group operates vis a vis their tenants.

 

@@@@

 

And, other developer...Oberer has Austin Center West, in the industrial park portion of the interchange

 

 

Austin Center West

 

 

And, for the Springboro side of Austin Boulevard:

 

Shopping Centers to be on both sides of Austin Boulevard

 

....RG is planning a 59-acre retail center across the boulevard in Springboro.

 

....Stores, restaurants, a hotel and a service station are laid out on the Springboro site, called Austin Landing South, in a concept plan obtained by the Dayton Daily News....

 

....In the concept plan, a five-building strip center is anchored by a 125,000-square-foot store. The plan also calls for six one to two-acre out lots; a service station and free-standing retail store along Austin Boulevard and Ohio 741; and a hotel and two restaurants on the southwest side of the development.

 

...which is going to be next to The Ascent, an office complex by Mills Developement.  Mills was the big develpoper behind the Pentagon Boulevard edge city in Beavercreek, and this is going to look a bit like their Acropolis, near the Fairfield Commons Mall.

 

A wrap-up of the non-RG stuff can be found at this link

 

Lost amid the buzz about Austin Landing, the most-visible development on the northeast corner of the interchange, are plans by other businesses, developers and government officials to spend more than $220 million on projects near the other three corners of the $43.9 million interchange

OK, it has been well over a year since I posted this would become a major retail center and was ridiculed. As time marches on who was right? Anytime you have money thrown at it as this development has the result is predictable. Call it mixed use if you want just because it has a jumble of occupants. But one thing I know it is not is urban. It is suburban sprawl at its best.

 

I still hope the Liberty Towne Square falls flat, simply because it is close to me and we need the congestion/traffic like a hole in the head.

OK, it has been well over a year since I posted this would become a major retail center and was ridiculed. As time marches on who was right? Anytime you have money thrown at it as this development has the result is predictable. Call it mixed use if you want just because it has a jumble of occupants. But one thing I know it is not is urban. It is suburban sprawl at its best.

 

I still hope the Liberty Towne Square falls flat, simply because it is close to me and we need the congestion/traffic like a hole in the head.

 

I wouldn't call this a major anything at this point. Kroger just opened this past week to give this development a grand total of two open retail tenants  (Kohl's is the other). And the long-rumored Jeff Ruby's restaurant was debunked this week as Ruby said the demographics of the area wouldn't support his price points.

 

Driving by this development regularly (a couple times a week), nothing else looks remotely close to opening.

^This.

It may not be built and open yet but what has been announced for all 4 corners of the interchange adds up to a lot of retail. Of course announcements are not necessarily reality. People announce things all the time but then come up short on the financing and it all falls through. Time will tell in this case.

 

I did notice some of the announced restaurants have been pushed back by about a year. Caution is better than outright failure.

It may not be built and open yet but what has been announced for all 4 corners of the interchange adds up to a lot of retail. Of course announcements are not necessarily reality. People announce things all the time but then come up short on the financing and it all falls through. Time will tell in this case.

 

I did notice some of the announced restaurants have been pushed back by about a year. Caution is better than outright failure.

 

Exactly.  So heed your own advice and don't immediately call projects happening in the city a failure.  That's all you hear from suburbanites, and in this day in age, it's always so nice to shut them up when cities are enjoying an immense rebound.

I would be suprised that RG didn't try for a retail play since their experience, up to this point, has been predominantly in retail development. 

 

I know they had that spat with Springboro about bringing the new WalMart to the southeast corner, which didn;'t happen due to Springboro opposition (the new Walmart went to Franklin), but they apparently are still making a retail play for that quadrant.

 

 

It may not be built and open yet but what has been announced for all 4 corners of the interchange adds up to a lot of retail. Of course announcements are not necessarily reality. People announce things all the time but then come up short on the financing and it all falls through. Time will tell in this case.

 

I did notice some of the announced restaurants have been pushed back by about a year. Caution is better than outright failure.

 

Exactly.  So heed your own advice and don't immediately call projects happening in the city a failure.  That's all you hear from suburbanites, and in this day in age, it's always so nice to shut them up when cities are enjoying an immense rebound.

 

And just what exactly does this have to do with Austin Landing, which is about as suburban as you can get? If you have a point I certainly missed it.

It may not be built and open yet but what has been announced for all 4 corners of the interchange adds up to a lot of retail. Of course announcements are not necessarily reality. People announce things all the time but then come up short on the financing and it all falls through. Time will tell in this case.

 

I did notice some of the announced restaurants have been pushed back by about a year. Caution is better than outright failure.

 

Exactly.  So heed your own advice and don't immediately call projects happening in the city a failure.  That's all you hear from suburbanites, and in this day in age, it's always so nice to shut them up when cities are enjoying an immense rebound.

 

And just what exactly does this have to do with Austin Landing, which is about as suburban as you can get? If you have a point I certainly missed it.

 

Shocking that you missed my point.  :roll:

 

I am tired of you trolling on here bashing anything that goes on in the city, yet come stomping in here quick to defend the suburbs.  You want to call us ridiculous?  Look in the mirror.  You're trolling at best on this site.  So point being: Heed your own advice.  Don't quickly jump to calling something a failure without seeing it through.  The point you were trying to make with Austin Landing.  Yet, somehow you have the right to talk down on urban development before ground is even broken?  Right.

 

If you don't get that, I don't know how else to explain it to you.  Move along then.  On to the next one.  :wink:

^ I don't think kjbrill is a fan of Austin Landing.

It may not be built and open yet but what has been announced for all 4 corners of the interchange adds up to a lot of retail. Of course announcements are not necessarily reality. People announce things all the time but then come up short on the financing and it all falls through. Time will tell in this case.

 

I did notice some of the announced restaurants have been pushed back by about a year. Caution is better than outright failure.

 

Exactly.  So heed your own advice and don't immediately call projects happening in the city a failure.  That's all you hear from suburbanites, and in this day in age, it's always so nice to shut them up when cities are enjoying an immense rebound.

 

And just what exactly does this have to do with Austin Landing, which is about as suburban as you can get? If you have a point I certainly missed it.

 

Shocking that you missed my point.  :roll:

 

I am tired of you trolling on here bashing anything that goes on in the city, yet come stomping in here quick to defend the suburbs.  You want to call us ridiculous?  Look in the mirror.  You're trolling at best on this site.  So point being: Heed your own advice.  Don't quickly jump to calling something a failure without seeing it through.  The point you were trying to make with Austin Landing.  Yet, somehow you have the right to talk down on urban development before ground is even broken?  Right.

 

If you don't get that, I don't know how else to explain it to you.  Move along then.  On to the next one.  :wink:

 

Please identify what I have been bashing relative to any city. In addition, this project has about zero to do with a city. It is suburban sprawl pure and simple. When I object to it as unncessary please identify just how it is bashing a city. Are you contending this is an extension of the City of Dayton? How contrite.

^ I don't think kjbrill is a fan of Austin Landing.

 

It is not whether I am a fan of Austin Landing. It is about whether it is being presented fairly. Once I saw the total number of acres involved, now somewhere between 1200 and 1500 I thought this is a large endeavor by any measurement.

 

The city of Springboro is doing everything they can so they bite off their piece of the pie.

 

I only take the exit since it opened to access a road to a golf course I like. It is less distance and time than taking a further north exit where I have to backtrack. That's the only use I have for it.

 

I only object to its not being called what it is, a large scale development at another interstate interchange which has one singular purpose - to feather the nests of the developers.

 

I also love some of the current terms being used such as Lifestyle Center. Whose lifestyle? They all remind me of the open air strip malls of the 1950s such as Kenwood Plaza. The only difference is they cover more land and have more strips. You MAY be able to park closer to your destination store, but that is debatable.

 

I believe what I am against is filling up every interstate interchange between Cincinnati and Dayton with a sprawling commercial development.

 

Like every other fad, it takes its toll. A few years ago people flocked to the outlet malls up I-71 near Washington Court House and Jeffersonville. Today they have more vacant stores than occupied. Do you think Cincinnati Premium Outlets at Ohio 63 and I-75 may have anything to do with that?

 

And how many remember there was actually an enclosed outlet mall at the north I-71 Kings Island Exit? I shopped there for awhile until the stores bellied up. The building was converted into a large office for a credit processing outfit - they left. It has gone through several conversions and quite frankly I can't tell you if it is currently occupied or vacant. I can tell you it is not retail.

 

No, it is not I like dislike Austin Landing. It is that I dislike every development of its type where everything goes.

 

Look at the Ohio 63 and I-75 interchange. Cincinnati Premium Outlets next to a huge transportation trucking depot. What a beautiful combination. And across the road a couple of flea markets, aren't they just beautiful. And recently OKed construction of a racino moving the Lebanon Raceway license. Give it a couple of years and you won't be able to get through this interchange in less than 20 minutes.

Well, I guess you could look on the bright side--there's not that many more interchanges between Cincinnati and Dayton left to develop. 

No, it is not I like dislike Austin Landing. It is that I dislike every development of its type where everything goes.

 

You are so f&^*ing obtuse in the way you can't, or won't, use this as a common-ground, jumping-off point for conversing with people on this board. There are a lot of points on which you agree with the urbanist mentality which is pervasive in this neck of the woods. But instead of using that to relate to people and make your points, you either overlook or ignore it, talk past it, and play the part of contrarian troll. Can you please acknowledge for once that you recognize we all hate sprawl, and we understand the reasons it's unsustainable and uneconomical (many of which you pointed out in your post)?

Well quite frankly I do not hate sprawl. I live in sprawl and like it just fine. I perfectly enjoy watching the wildlife we feed on a regular basis. I enjoy watching the people walking the neighborhood or biking/jogging on the bike trails around town. I enjoy seeing the literally dozens of youth athletic fields around town and all of the kids utilizing them. And

yes I like the fact I can sometimes go weeks without stumbling coming or going.

 

What I dislike is totally uncontrolled sprawl, the kind where anything goes, with no semblance of zoning or balance in mind. This is usually found in areas under township control. It is my experience that people in townships are devoted to the idea everyone has the right to do as they please.

Whatever you want to call it, we hate it for the same reasons you do. If you would appeal to common ground, as such, in your discussions, you might not come off as such a jerk.

Whatever you want to call it, we hate it for the same reasons you do. If you would appeal to common ground, as such, in your discussions, you might not come off as such a jerk.

 

And I would probably not take so much offense at your calling me a jerk. Seems to be the popular thing, if you don't agree with someone's views either call them a jerk or a troll. I guess either of those declarations removes someone from involvement.

 

I do not feel compelled to search for your definition of common ground. I did not see a posting stating this is the common ground of this forum. In fact, when you login I find it to be conspicuous by the absence there is not even an easily viewed Vision and Mission statement for the forum. So what is its purpose?

 

The Forum Name implies it is to further the urban living environment within Ohio. But where is the Mission Statement? If 100% of the content is to parrot all of the current urban living advocates, I will gladly exit.

 

But if the intent is to formulate how the urban living advocates can coexist with the suburban advocates I am all for it. Somehow I sense the urbanites want nothing to do with that. So maybe they need to struggle more with why KTC is the only viable shopping destination in Cincinnati and it is not within the city. I virtually never go there because I have so many more options out here in the great wasteland of suburban sprawl I live in.

 

 

And I would probably not take so much offense at your calling me a jerk. Seems to be the popular thing, if you don't agree with someone's views either call them a jerk or a troll.

 

Troll. That's what you do. You like to post inflammatory, condescending remarks and take threads off topic so they center on you and your idiotic arguments. There is no common ground with you because you will simply start in on something else if common ground is found. You seem to get off on arguing with people that like to post on forum boards. It's so obvious to everyone what you are doing, even if you deny doing it.

 

Troll - In Internet slang, a troll (pron.: /ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is someone who posts inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

That all boils down to what is your opinion of what is on topic and what is not. In a discussion like Austin Landing it boils down to whether this is a large suburban sprawl development or not. It also boils down as to who is it benefiting in the surrounding community.

 

So please inform me as to how this is directly benefiting the surrounding community? Is it helping with their tax base, support of schools, etc? Is it providing needed facilities, shopping, etc. which have not been available within a reasonable distance? Please identify what it is providing other than just another mish-mash interchange.

In a discussion like Austin Landing it boils down to whether this is a large suburban sprawl development or not

 

Have you even seen Austin Landing? If you sneeze on 75 you would miss it. It's hardly a sprawled suburban development, though it is on the southern tip of Dayton's suburban sprawl. If Austin Landing does anything negative then it will pull businesses out of Kettering, Miamisburg, or Centerville. Otherwise, it's just an interchange that provides much needed access to the northern end of Springboro and southern access to Miamisburg from 75. Before, you had to go up to 725 and deal with congestion to access anything down 741 or reach Miamisburg. That's all it is. Nothing more, nothing less. It's really quite unremarkable, but you seem to want to over inflate it's importance so we can all argue your ludicrous points on schools, tax bases, other amenities within a reasonable distance, etc.

 

I'm not taking the bait. Go troll somewhere else.

There is no common ground with you because you will simply start in on something else if common ground is found. You seem to get off on arguing with people that like to post on forum boards.

 

Thanks, that's the point I was trying to make.

 

Presenting unpopular opinions is fine and good, but productive discussion involves finding common ground and using that as a basis for discussions of points of disagreement. I don't know how to eloquently describe it, but kjbrill makes moving targets all over the map, provocatively seeking out disagreements. There's no goal on his end of coming to mutual understanding, which makes all discussion frustrating and pointless. It's a clever troll tactic, honestly, especially when he makes you wonder if he knows he is doing it.

wallabro...

 

Of course I have seen Austin Landing. It may be in its early stages now, but I have seen between 1200 and 1500 acres of land scoped for development. That is far more than just a simple interchange with a few establishments, it is major league in anybody's evaluation. All development is slowed down due to the economic climate. So give it another five years and see what sits there.

wallabro...

 

Of course I have seen Austin Landing. It may be in its early stages now, but I have seen between 1200 and 1500 acres of land scoped for development. That is far more than just a simple interchange with a few establishments, it is major league in anybody's evaluation. All development is slowed down due to the economic climate. So give it another five years and see what sits there.

 

Strange, it's not major league in my evaluation.  :laugh:

February 1, 2013 -

BJ's Restaurant & Brewhouse will open a new location this year at Austin Landing.

 

 

 

"We are pleased to be able to welcome BJ's Restaurant & Brewhouse to Austin Landing," said RG President Randy Gunlock. "BJ's is a great restaurant and provides a memorable atmosphere. Personally, my family and I've eaten there many times, and I think the restaurant will be a great addition to the community here at Austin Landing."

 

wallabro...

 

Of course I have seen Austin Landing. It may be in its early stages now, but I have seen between 1200 and 1500 acres of land scoped for development. That is far more than just a simple interchange with a few establishments, it is major league in anybody's evaluation. All development is slowed down due to the economic climate. So give it another five years and see what sits there.

 

Strange, it's not major league in my evaluation.  :laugh:

 

If you don't consider 1,200 to 1,500 acres of commercial development to be major in scope, what do you consider it to be? Or are you saying people are over-speculating and much of it will never materialize? The main justification for the expense of the interchange prtesented by Montgomery Co. was the opening up of the commercial development, not just a more convenient access from the south to Springboro and Miamisburg.

^^ I'm just saying it's not that big of a deal, period. It's an interchange with development. Whooptee doo. It definitely benefits the area. Why do you care?

Getting beyond the personality issues here, back to Austin Blvd Interchange.

 

This project was sold differently at different times.

 

At first the pitch was that it was to relieve congestion south of Dayton and provide better access to Miamisburg.

 

Then it was sold as an economics thing, as a potential new employment center to retain and attract office/industrial use.

 

There's been a lot of speculation (not on this board) that there was some sort of quid-pro-quo btw the developer, Randy Gunlock and his RG Enterprises, and the local politicos.  I researched this a bit looking at campaign contributions to the Mont. County Commissioners, and he is not a contributor, tho he does contribute to GOP politicians at the national and state level. 

 

And he did not own property there when the initial push for this interchange occured.  At that time the players, as in landowners, was Mead Corporation & Danis (east of I-75), and some private investors who owned the old farmland to the west of I-75.  And Oberer, who was active in residential devleopment near the interchange.  Oberer did show up as a big player in contributions to county commissioner races...so maybe there is the link... 

 

As to now, if Gunlock is influencing local political players on zoning somehow I dont know...

 

However, the benefits are not just to RG Enterprises as the lead developer or developer-partner (in a way RG's role is similar to Aryeh Neyers' in Middletown, as the lead developer-partner for the land around the new hospital), but to ALL the developers along the Warren/Butler/Mont. county line, since it opens up the land along the county line to better access and development.  This is residential/subdivision dev. as well as the retail-hospitality/office/industrial stuff.

 

I think thats the point that is being missed here. 

 

At least it was missed until the traffic counts blew past the long range forecasts in less than year of operation....where did those drivers come from?  Well, they came from the catchment area of this interchange, which is well beyond the property surrounding the interchange that we are talking about, and which is going to accelerate now that the interchange is open.

 

I disagree that the interchange development itself  is unplanned.  I think it is being planned but that its all very close-hold...and there seems to be an ongoing back-and-forth between RG and the local planners/zoners as to what to build (that is the take-away from the recent set of stories I linked to). 

 

 

Jeffrey...

 

I was not just speaking of the area immediately around the interchange where development is currently happening. That land is about what, perhaps 300-400 acres total. I am also talking of the additional 800 to 1,000 acres nearby which the interchange affects. and Montgomery Co. included in their projections.

 

Your comment the traffic counts blew past the long term projections in the first year to me is very significant. Traffic counts is one of the parameters developers zero in on.

 

I am not stupid enough to believe this is going to fill up overnight in this economy. But I do believe the die is cast and as it fills out it will impact closeby areas like Dayton Mall and the planned rejuvenation of Middletown Towne Mall. The Middletown facility I believe is the most vulnerable since it is already rundown and what can you put in there shoppers can't find in nearby Cincinnati Premium Outlets?

Austin Landing really isn't bringing anything to the area that isn't already there. It's just shuffling the deck of cards. ... The Dayton Mall/725/741 area is jam-packed with just about every restaurant and retailer you could want. Menard's just opened not two miles from Austin Landing. Sorry, but I'm just not seeing anything new or exciting coming, other than a second Dublin Pub.

 

I mean, really ... Kohl's? Kroger? What's the big deal?

In relation, this is a side-issue, but a topical one...  What do you think will happen to the Springboro Kroger on Rt.73?  (It may not have been a great store, but it was a good store--and one that my my wife and I shopped at for years before moving back to Cincinnati.)

I am not stupid enough to believe this is going to fill up overnight in this economy.

 

It'll fill up, no doubt. But this is how development has happened for years. Access, retail/office space, tract homes nearby, etc. Nothing new to see here. It's very underwhelming though. I'm with RockyMountainHigh on this one.

 

But the interchange was sorely needed, both for Springboro and Miamisburg.

I am not stupid enough to believe this is going to fill up overnight in this economy.

 

It'll fill up, no doubt. But this is how development has happened for years. Access, retail/office space, tract homes nearby, etc. Nothing new to see here. It's very underwhelming though. I'm with RockyMountainHigh on this one.

 

But the interchange was sorely needed, both for Springboro and Miamisburg.

 

And a large portion of southern Centerville too. Austin shaves at least 5-7 minutes off travel time south on 75.

I don't see why convenience for residents, businesses, and developers in the exurbs is a state, regional, or county priority. "Sorely needed" for what? To support and encourage greenfield development?

 

A "shuffling of the cards" is right. It's just a shuffling -- it doesn't add anything. Except more infrastructure that will age and require maintenance, with the same number of people around to foot the bill than would be if that infrastructure were never added. It's a net-negative investment for the region.

 

If you don't consider 1,200 to 1,500 acres of commercial development to be major in scope, what do you consider it to be?

 

Let's be honest: this is a 1200-1500 acre parking lot development, with a sprinkling of mostly single-story commercial buildings. You make it sound like they are building a new metropolis.

Austin Landing really isn't bringing anything to the area that isn't already there. It's just shuffling the deck of cards. ... The Dayton Mall/725/741 area is jam-packed with just about every restaurant and retailer you could want. Menard's just opened not two miles from Austin Landing. Sorry, but I'm just not seeing anything new or exciting coming, other than a second Dublin Pub.

 

I mean, really ... Kohl's? Kroger? What's the big deal?

 

You are exactly right, it is reshuffling the deck. Who said it was bringing anything exciting or innovative? But that is part of the point.

 

As I posted earlier, a few years ago the outlet malls up I-71 near Washington Court House and Jeffersonville were jammed with shoppers from Cincinnati and Columbus. Now they are becoming ghost towns, and the locals who worked there are without jobs. Do you think Cincinnati Premium Outlets and the one up closer to Columbus did not cause this?

 

The big deal is these new developments bleed off customers from somewhere else. It is like saying Bridgewater Falls in Butler Co, Deerfield Towne Center in Warren Co, and Union Center Boulevard in Butler Co. have had no effect on Tri-County Mall. OH YEA, then what has? For years people here in Mason went to Tri-County Mall and I believe people in Fairfield/Hamilton and all of Westchester Township went to Tri-County Mall. Now it is obvious, nobody goes. As you say, what is there different to mark our presence, everything has been duplicated closer to us. It does not have to be innovative or exciting, it only has to be close and identifiable.

 

Years ago I used to drive to Middletown Towne Mall to the McAlpins which was there as it was a pleasant drive and compared to Tri-County or Kenwood a beeze to actually park and go into the store. For some time it was one of our favorite stores to visit. But then things interfer. They built more crap along Ohio 63 and I-75 at the Middletown exit. So it became more complicated, equated with slower. The quality of the store began to drop, I am not sure why.

 

I will just go back to if you think the whole landmass around the Austin Landing interchange is not going to affect the quality of life in that area, we are totally on different wavelengths.

 

Today's developments in the rural hinterlands are not about bringing in sometime unique. It is about replicating where people actually go to spend their money.

 

Put up a Lowe's and Home Depot. Add in a Kroger plus a Super-Walmart and a nice Meijer. Factor in a Target and a Kohl's and you are more than halfway there. Anything unique, absolutely not. Are they dominating the retail landscape, yes they are.

I don't see why convenience for residents, businesses, and developers in the exurbs is a state, regional, or county priority. "Sorely needed" for what? To support and encourage greenfield development?

 

Sorely needed in terms of improving access and quality of life for nearby residents. Having lived in Dayton, and having dealt with congestion in the area, to me it makes sense. Is it critical? Not at all.

 

On a speculative side note, I wouldn't be surprised if Lexus Nexus had influence on things, since their employees benefit from it as well.

Put up a Lowe's and Home Depot. Add in a Kroger plus a Super-Walmart and a nice Meijer. Factor in a Target and a Kohl's and you are more than halfway there. Anything unique, absolutely not. Are they dominating the retail landscape, yes they are.

 

I doubt you will get Lowes or Home Depot, since they are both right up the street. Meijer perhaps. Target is also close by.

I don't see why convenience for residents, businesses, and developers in the exurbs is a state, regional, or county priority. "Sorely needed" for what? To support and encourage greenfield development?

 

Sorely needed in terms of improving access and quality of life for nearby residents. Having lived in Dayton, and having dealt with congestion in the area, to me it makes sense. Is it critical? Not at all.

 

On a speculative side note, I wouldn't be surprised if Lexus Nexus had influence on things, since their employees benefit from it as well.

 

I would suggest the businesses and people living there relocate near an existing highway exit, if that's something they require. The state is not obligated to provide them with such amenities. I see this as a form of entitlement spending which is a drain on the region on several fronts. State investment in a business and residential boom in this area only drains from nearby business and residential areas, while increasing the amount of infrastructure that must be maintained over time. It subsidizes and rewards antisocial lifestyle and business decisions.

 

Brill is right on some of these topics, though Mason is just as guilty. You can see why someone from Mason would be especially threatened by state subsidies in an area like this. Just about anything drawing people to Mason could be cloned in this area, creating competition and vacancies and decreasing land values in Mason.

I don't see why convenience for residents, businesses, and developers in the exurbs is a state, regional, or county priority. "Sorely needed" for what? To support and encourage greenfield development?

 

Sorely needed in terms of improving access and quality of life for nearby residents. Having lived in Dayton, and having dealt with congestion in the area, to me it makes sense. Is it critical? Not at all.

 

On a speculative side note, I wouldn't be surprised if Lexus Nexus had influence on things, since their employees benefit from it as well.

 

I would suggest the businesses and people living there relocate near an existing highway exit, if that's something they require. The state is not obligated to provide them with such amenities. I see this as a form of entitlement spending which is a drain on the region on several fronts. State investment in a business and residential boom in this area only drains from nearby business and residential areas, while increasing the amount of infrastructure that must be maintained over time. It subsidizes and rewards antisocial lifestyle and business decisions.

 

Brill is right on some of these topics, though Mason is just as guilty. You can see why someone from Mason would be especially threatened by state subsidies in an area like this. Just about anything drawing people to Mason could be cloned in this area, creating competition and vacancies and decreasing land values in Mason.

 

I can't really say I agree with the development process and I definitely can't stand stuffy, boring suburbs. So, I can't really say I disagree with you. Even if no development was actually at the interchange, I still welcome the extra access. I think that's about it for me.

 

And the irony of kjbrill's situation and POV is not lost on me either.

I don't see why convenience for residents, businesses, and developers in the exurbs is a state, regional, or county priority.

 

It's a priority since governments are representaive, and respond to the desires of the voters and politically active influentials.  Middle- and Upper-middle class suburbanites vote and contribute to the political process, so policy-making is going to respond....

 

The interchange and road improvements was engineered by ODOT, but a substantial amount of the construction funding came from a joint-venture TIF, which means the interchange was locally subsidized.

 

The rationale for the county (Montgomery County) to support it was that it would be a source--long term--of tax revenue.  The county was being hurt by economic development shifting..over a 25 yr period--to the I-675 corridor, meaning it was mostly happening in Greene County.  This was seen as a way as getting in on the action...but to the south, since this was the other big growth corridor in the region.

 

The devlopement and funding of this interchange was a good example of ad-hoc coordination and cooperation btw different levels of government:  funding, land aquisition, design, and construction. 

 

 

I don't see why convenience for residents, businesses, and developers in the exurbs is a state, regional, or county priority. "Sorely needed" for what? To support and encourage greenfield development?

 

Sorely needed in terms of improving access and quality of life for nearby residents. Having lived in Dayton, and having dealt with congestion in the area, to me it makes sense. Is it critical? Not at all.

 

On a speculative side note, I wouldn't be surprised if Lexus Nexus had influence on things, since their employees benefit from it as well.

 

I would suggest the businesses and people living there relocate near an existing highway exit, if that's something they require. The state is not obligated to provide them with such amenities. I see this as a form of entitlement spending which is a drain on the region on several fronts. State investment in a business and residential boom in this area only drains from nearby business and residential areas, while increasing the amount of infrastructure that must be maintained over time. It subsidizes and rewards antisocial lifestyle and business decisions.

 

Brill is right on some of these topics, though Mason is just as guilty. You can see why someone from Mason would be especially threatened by state subsidies in an area like this. Just about anything drawing people to Mason could be cloned in this area, creating competition and vacancies and decreasing land values in Mason.

 

Please detail how Mason has benefited from state highway subsidies. Mason has two exits on I-71. The original was the Kings Mill Rd exit constructed when the highway was originally built. The second is the Kings Island, Western Row exit constructed with the establishment of Kings Island which was not even in Mason. True, it has subsequently been annexed to Mason on request of the owners who feared the taxes a brand new city proposed in Deerfield Twp. which failed may bring.

 

The success of Mason does have a lot to do with location. But more than that it has to do with a dedicated city staff who created an effective master plan for growth, had the foresight to set aside park and industrial park lands, developed the city infrastructure, and worked with the school board to create one of Ohio's best school districts.

 

At this point, Mason is effectively built out. Other than further annexation of Deerfield Twp. (I can hear the bawling now), Mason is at its peak. Am I concerned about Mason - no way. When you live in what several publications have identified as one of the best 20 suburbs in the US to live in, how can your be pessimistic?

 

The real strengths of Mason are its residential neighborhoods and the schools. These two entities define Mason. The residential neighborhoods define the schools, and the schools define Mason. At my age I am just hanging on and we are enjoying everything such as the Community Center they give to us seniors. Quite frankly we love it here and I don't expect any radical changes.

 

That doesn't mean I do not have opinions concerning developments. Pure conjestion is annoying. We will sometimes go to Costco down in the Fields Ertel/Mason Montgomery mess. We try to minimize the visits as it is about as pleasant as a tooth extraction.

The real question about stuff like this is, "do these benefits warrant the cost of the projects?"  A lot of the supposed benefits are merely shorter driving time, which doesn't actually bring in more tax revenue to the government, but real cash money is spent on these huge road projects.  Yes there's more development, whether that's at Austin Landing or Mason or wherever, but this development is so spread out and so cheap that the receipts from property and income taxes can't cover the long term maintenance obligations of the new streets, sewers, water lines, and all the extra city services like schools, police, and fire protection that they require, especially if some of those taxes were abated to lure the developments in the first place.  In 20 or 30 years when some of this infrastructure, especially the roads, need rehabilitating, the properties surrounding them are just as likely to have depreciated in value as appreciated, and they could very well jump ship to the next "new shiny" development, leaving yet more crumbling and under-utilized infrastructure in its wake. 

 

This isn't some guess as to what will happen, this has already happened and continues to happen.  The Dayton Mall area is getting a bit long in the tooth, and Austin is the new shiny.  Mason is the new shiny after Field-Ertel, which is the new shiny after Blue Ash, which is the new shiny after Deer Park, and on down the road through Pleasant Ridge, Norwood, Evanston, and Walnut Hills to downtown.  If the pattern keeps going, there's no reason these places won't become the dowdy and depressed forgotten burbs of tomorrow.  The very notion that these places with so much wasted empty space can be "built out" is exactly their downfall.  The strict zoning and complete denial that they could ever grow and mature from within by densifying condemns them to stasis at best, and decline or death at the worst.  Stay the course, double down, and keep on trucking.  Insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. 

^ Yeah, I should have said "should be a priority" rather than "is a priority". You can say "because of democracy", but it goes to the quote (paraphrasing) about the downfall of democracy coming when people realize they can vote to give themselves money. That's what this type of development is, because it benefits some people but it's overall a drain.

 

^^ "Please detail how Mason has benefited from state highway subsidies. Mason has two exits on I-71." Thanks, you just answered yourself.

 

Mason is far, far, far from built-out. What is the ratio of building footprints to land area?

^ Yeah, I should have said "should be a priority" rather than "is a priority". You can say "because of democracy", but it goes to the quote (paraphrasing) about the downfall of democracy coming when people realize they can vote to give themselves money. That's what this type of development is, because it benefits some people but it's overall a drain.

 

^^ "Please detail how Mason has benefited from state highway subsidies. Mason has two exits on I-71." Thanks, you just answered yourself.

 

Mason is far, far, far from built-out. What is the ratio of building footprints to land area?

 

Maybe you should look again. The number of building lots available in Mason is down to a few. If you drive around town, what appear to be vacant lots are actually in Deerfield Twp., not Mason. Mason is ringed with a ribbon of Deerfield Twp., a rather curious result. There is some amount of vacant land on the northeast corner of the city, but it is reserved for industrial park development. So yes, Mason is close to being built-out far as residential goes.

 

As far as the two I-71 exits, one was specifically for Kings Island when it was not part of Mason. And I for one keep arguing it does not have to be expanded into a full interchange as it is not necessary. It is the Kings Island exit, not the Mason exit. Just look at the ramps, they dump you on and off at Kings Island Drive, not Mason. Mason now uses them, but they were not built to serve Mason.

 

Maybe you should look again. .

 

Can we get back to Austin Landing at some point? Start a Mason thread or something.

 

Maybe you should look again. .

 

Can we get back to Austin Landing at some point? Start a Mason thread or something.

 

Sure, I did not start the off topic drift towards Mason. But if addressed I will respond. If you think I will not respond to derogatory remarks about Mason, think again. I am happy to confine remarks to Austin Landing.

 

I also am not just disparaging Austin Landing. I just wish people would recognize it for what it is, a major endeavor by Montgomery Co. to capitalize on the developable land surrounding the interchange.

I also am not just disparaging Austin Landing. I just wish people would recognize it for what it is, a major endeavor by Montgomery Co. to capitalize on the developable land surrounding the interchange.

 

Yep, I have to agree, though I don't think I can blame Montgomery County for doing so.

The thing that intrigues me about this is how the structured the tax collection from the JEDD...essentially expemting white collar employees from the local income tax collection.    This might make the office development at this interchange more competetive vis a vis competiting sites on I-75? 

The thing that intrigues me about this is how the structured the tax collection from the JEDD...essentially expemting white collar employees from the local income tax collection.    This might make the office development at this interchange more competetive vis a vis competiting sites on I-75? 

 

Wow --- I had no idea.

The thing that intrigues me about this is how the structured the tax collection from the JEDD...essentially expemting white collar employees from the local income tax collection. This might make the office development at this interchange more competetive vis a vis competiting sites on I-75?

 

To me this should be declared out and out discrimination, illegal, and unconstitutional. How can you exempt white-collar employees from an income tax when the rank and file working in a fast food restaurant, etc. are subject to it? Just another way for the wealthy to escape paying their fair share of taxes. I hope these loopholes are just declared unconstitutional and shut down.