I hope they're not going to remove all the existing trees, they are finally starting to look like something.

I suppose that because of the tunnels below, really large trees could not grow there.

I'm starting on my senior capstones and have chosen Broadway Commons as my site. I actually got my inspiration from one of the threads on this site. My concept is to create a Gateway into Broadway Commons using Central Parkway. Broadway Commons then will contain an urban park that will be subsidized with development in the surrounding areas. I put together a quick survey, and would greatly appreciate it if you would take a few minutes and give your feedback. I hope that we can keep this thread pumping with good ideas and opinions. Remember Broadway Commons/ Union Terminal is part of Streetcar Phase 2 right after the University line so this type of project could come to reality in the next 10 years!

 

Thanks for your help!

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=qaIMg_2bYtdGgv29t0GPOnOw_3d_3d

 

 

I just took the survey...quick/painless.  Good luck on the capstone project, and please do share your finished product with us.

yeah i've been talking to some of my prof's and they think i should try to set up something to give to city council

^Heck even contact someone from the OTR Chamber, DCI, UC School of Planning, etc.  They would all be great assets to have weigh in on this topic.

Yeah thats a really good idea

took the survey...good luck with your project. 

Hey, I think you were downtown last week asking people to fill out survey.  A co-worker and I filled it out.

Yeah thanks for the help

Hey, I think you were downtown last week asking people to fill out survey.

 

Now that is nerdy...in an awesome kind of way.

Got to get feed back from the people I am essentially designing this for. No, but I agree very nerdy. Hopefully i can come up with something that reflects the vision of the citizens.

 

You guys would obviously know this better than i would, but why has the City made large efforts at attracting companies like Cintas to downtown?

 

From what i can come up with, giving them the tax incentives that mason did would create controversy with other downtown corps.

It just drives me crazy when i see these large business parks out in the suburbs and i see what problems they have caused because of all of the added infrastructure, and i just think to myself how nice it would be to see this economic boom and expansion downtown. Imagine what the city would have been like if P&G was able to put their research center within the city limits. I often think about how they could have connected their headquarters and research center with rail had it been close enough.

 

Broadway Commons could be a very nice area for a world headquarters, or at least large corporate expansion. The space is there, but the support isn't.

Good luck with your project.....sounds interesting.

The closest Broadway Commons came to be developed in years was when the casino ballot issue came up in 2006. Even the owner of that vast parking lot make an appearance and said if it passes, we have plans to built a casino here. Of course the ballot issue failed miserably and I can't see anything being built there anytime soon. The parking revenue is too lucrative and from what I understand trying to built housing there just won't work.

 

There's an Ohio Casino thread on UO that might be worth reading.

 

Good Luck

I think a ballpark would fit quite nicely at Broadway Commons. I recommend holding out until 2030 when its time to replace GABP

It will end up being Cincinnati's next Banks development.  Once The Banks is underway and/or completed...attention will turn to Broadway Commons as the next biggest black eye for the city.  Hopefully it won't take quite as long though.

^

Yeah I completely agree with you Rando. it really is prime real estate, and if the streetcar works like they are saying it (Broadway Commons) will start to feel the over flow. Also look at the 2030 plan and this area is slated to be part of Streetcar phase II, right after the uptown streetcar. Very promising for Broadway Commons. Ten years into the future is defiantly not to far to look ahead when planning large developments of this nature.

Are you by chance a Miami student? (senior capstone, UR's quote about UC planning)

Nope, West Virginia University

Nice!

 

streetcar line, flanked by 6-8 story multi use wrapped around a few garages, a roundabout with a fountain and three parks.  done. 

Are you by chance a Miami student? (senior capstone, UR's quote about UC planning)

 

I just thought it might make sense to survey professors and students that are knowledgeable on the topic and are so close to the subject area.  I personally know that several of the UC Planning professors live quite close to the site as well.  Why wouldn't you want to ask someone like that?

Are you by chance a Miami student? (senior capstone, UR's quote about UC planning)

 

I just thought it might make sense to survey professors and students that are knowledgeable on the topic and are so close to the subject area.  I personally know that several of the UC Planning professors live quite close to the site as well.  Why wouldn't you want to ask someone like that?

 

LOL. I never made any kind of statement about what you said, it was just a clue to me that he probably wasn't at UC.

Yes, the Trolley will really help out Broadway Commons!!!!  I can't wait!!!!

If they run the streetcar up Reading then it will certainly bode well for Broadway Commons, and development will probably start occuring sooner than what it normally would have.  If however, the streetcar doesn't go up Reading and goes some other route, I'm not sure that anyone will want to pay for a streetcar extension running to some parking lots.

 

I think the Reading Road route provides the best opportunity for this site to be developed, and I think that it would be more heavily private finances than not with the streetcar there.  The same would have been true with The Banks had the infrastructure been there and a streetcar already serving the general area.  Oh, what transit can do...

if the projects on the table right now come full circle (the banks, the streetcar, QCSII, University Village, Calhoun, and even the light interest in the Union Terminal Project) it's just a matter of time before areas like Broadway Commons start to feel the impact. With the first several phases of the streetcar i would not be surprised to see Broadway Commons become the next Banks project, like you said rando. I think that people would like the idea of this area because you are basically starting from scratch and have an opportunity to do what ever you can dream up, just like the banks project. A lot of people are drawn to the idea of new construction for residential and commercial development because the sky is the limit.

It is a shame that they couldn't build the ballpark there.  It would have revitalized that neighborhood the same way it revitalized the Central Market area in Cleveland when they built Jacobs Field (oops!).  There was nothing there, now the entire neighborhood is full of businesses.

 

The best thing that could go in Broadway Commons now is a new jail!

^

I dont know how P&G and Kroger would feel about having the jail a stones throw away from their world headquarters

^I dont know how P&G and Kroger would feel about having the jail a stones throw away from their world headquarters.

 

Well there is already right there, but I don't think this would be an appropriate site for another.  I think there are plenty of areas in Queensgate and Camp Washington that seem to be more logical and have community support.

^

Yeah but that is the much smaller city jail the large county jail that DanB was talking about

^Yeah but that is the much smaller city jail the large county jail that DanB was talking about

 

I'm pretty sure that is a Hamilton County jail...and it is the largest in the system of jails.  Not as big as what a new one would be, but still quite large.

^

Learn something new everyday

A lot of people are drawn to the idea of new construction for residential and commercial development because the sky is the limit.

the only commercial dev that ever really got me excited at this site would have been the arena, but seeing how that did not happen, why do further const dev that could possibly cannibalize from other dev both in the CBD and OTR?  A value added component such as a park that had entertainment attractions like a  cirque du soleil  (and I am really dreamin here) or at very least a first class amphitheater.  Give back to the residents and businesses who right now are taking the chance down here as opposed to presenting them with just another thing to compete against them.

RIght. I agree, but I am looking at this project in two ways. Ideally and realistically. It would be ideal if we were able to attract a large corporate company to this area, but it's not highly likely.

Realistically this site with a park can help spur development on the east side which is a little neglected when compared to what we are seeing going right down the center North and south of central parkway. I think to really make an area successful you need all types of development commercial, residential, retail, ect. This is the concept behind the banks project. I also realistically don't see a project like this happening for another 7-10 years once OTR and the CBD are booming again. When I am looking at this design and my project I am not looking at it as though it is being built tomorrow or next year, but from the stand point of a long term plan. Maybe my project is just wishful thinking, and a lot of things would have to go right for it to happen, but once again like Rando said this area has the potential to be the site for the next banks project in cincy, but much easier do to the fact that it is well out of the flood plain.

 

the only commercial dev that ever really got me excited at this site would have been the arena, but seeing how that did not happen, why do further const dev that could possibly cannibalize from other dev both in the CBD and OTR?  A value added component such as a park that had entertainment attractions like a  cirque du soleil  (and I am really dreamin here) or at very least a first class amphitheater.  Give back to the residents and businesses who right now are taking the chance down here as opposed to presenting them with just another thing to compete against them.

 

I think you can and need to do both.  The city continues to build more and more parks and other amenities (yes I know the pool situation), but the fact of the matter is that businesses enable these types of things.  It would be great to see some value added stuff there (i.e. park, pond, etc), but I think the addition of new offices, businesses, and residents also adds significant value to both OTR and Downtown.

 

What I think you need to have done is you have the large park, but then you compliment it with a couple of office buildings, residential structures (3-5 stories) with accompanying retail services.  It also might be worth looking at the establishment of a major bus hub facility.  Currently Greyhound has their station out there...maybe you could re-do that and combine it with Megabus for a larger more comprehensive regional bus hub.  You could then set-aside some space for maintenance and/or storage for these guys under/near the interstate.

 

Just some of my thoughts... :-D

I do not know if that is the best scenerio.  I say that because why develop something that will attract 1 when you can possibly dev something that will attract several as well as help retain existing.  A first rate park does this.  As far as complimenting it with additional offices, businesses and residential, that will take care of itself.  Pendleton and especially Prospect Hill would explode with redevelopment of existing buildings.  By not building the new, we encourage the redevelopment of the existing.

^

both good points. My thoughts as far as the greyhound station goes --> it would be nice to be able to establish a multi-modal transit hub (Regional rail, local rail, and regional and local bus services). This is what Charlotte is in the process of doing, and i think that is the best option. Relocating the greyhound station near Union Terminal is what i see as the best option for long term planning.

 

As far as not adding any new development i agree that OTR might feel strain. With that being said I don't think that the city could afford to create a large scale park like that with out it being somewhat subsidized by developers. When i look at this area i don't see there being an enormous amount of any one type of development. It will truly be a mixed use development. I also think that with the streetcar eventually being here, the rise of gas prices, and the ecological strain that cities like Phoenix are going to see in the near future, we are going to see an urban boom and I hope and believe that the city will rise again and be able to support it all. Maybe I'm just a dreamer and ignorant, but like they say ignorance is bliss

Pendleton and especially Prospect Hill would explode with redevelopment of existing buildings.  By not building the new, we encourage the redevelopment of the existing.

 

I think you can do both...there is a large segment of the population that wants the new construction amenities (i.e. large kitchens, large closets, good insulation, etc) and they could probably care less about whether they live in some cool rehabbed building with exposed brick walls, hardwood flooring, oversized windows and the like.  What I'm saying is that they are two different markets.  Why just limit that area to one, when I think you could have both.

 

We are both on board though about a world-class park.  I REALLY think that a park with a large pond and Central Park designs would really be wonderful there.

How much park space do you guys really think we need downtown?  Broadway commons is just down the street form Eden Park.  Just run the trolley up through the park!

 

 

Broadway commons is just down the street form Eden Park.  Just run the trolley up through the park!

 

*Shakes head*

^

The nice thing with having  a park at broadway commons is that it would be in the basin and people could walk to it, where as eden park is a drive or away. As we move more towards a downtown that supports more residents, parks are the type of things taht will attract people to the area.

^true true,   

I kinda hope they eventually do something other than JUST A PARK though. 

New residential that matches OTR's old stuff would be cool.  (some descent examples throughout Mt Adams and City West)

I still like a casino, but that is a pipe dream i know.

I think something like Columbus' North Market could also be quite cool there.  It would act as a mini-Findlay Market, but with a heavier emphasis on ready to eat products instead of the produce emphasis of Findlay.

 

Obviously though this wouldn't be nearly enough to fill this massive site.

Any new park should not compete with Eden or Central Riverfront Park.  I think it should possibly be more "playground" and less formal than what Central Riverfront will be and what Eden is.

 

http://queencitysurvey.blogspot.com/2007/12/raise-rutherford_07.html

I would hope that some neighborhood services (dry cleaners, laundrymat) could be mixed with a few restaurants, and some other small-medium sized businesses for the area.  There will be a lot of residents in that area.

Broadway commons is just down the street form Eden Park.  Just run the trolley up through the park!

 

*Shakes head*

 

In agreement, I'm sure!!!!

they could probably care less about whether they live in some cool rehabbed building with exposed brick walls, hardwood flooring, oversized windows and the like.  What I'm saying is that they are two different markets

That is why I mentioned cannibalization of CBD projects also that does offer this as well as new const infill throughout OTR that will hopefully continue to grow.  Here is an example of what I am talking about.. "I would hope that some neighborhood services (dry cleaners, laundrymat) could be mixed with a few restaurants, and some other small-medium sized businesses for the area"  This means that these business went to this new site instead of an existing site such as Main etc that still would have a service area that would include any dev around the periphary of Broadway commons.

 

How much park space do you guys really think we need downtown?

It needs to be just more than your everyday park.  In my mind it is a Lincoln Park or a Lake Eola in Orlando that is a city wide draw but has all development that started privately around the periphary.  The Eden Park example is a huge draw for people wanting to live in Mt Adams, Ault Park is a huge draw for Hyde Park but they really only lend an advantage to the near proximity properties.  Downtown and OTR does not benefit from saying you can take a bus from your house or business to Eden Park.

 

New residential that matches OTR's old stuff would be cool.  (some descent examples throughout Mt Adams and City West)

What would be even cooler than that is to see residential that matches OTR's old stuff actually mixed into empty lot sites that sit next to OTR's old stuff.   Bottom line, you have x number of people who are going to purchase in an area at any given time.  We are seeing that x grow exponentially however why compete with the infills within the community when you can do something to promote it?  And I am talking new construction infill as well as rehabs. 

 

I understand that just doing a design layout that shows a bunch of green space isn't as fun as throwing in a bunch of new commercial and residential buidlings but just being practical, why further saturate an area with buidlings that is already saturated?  Economic impact of the whole community is what would be first and foremost in my mind and not just the site itself.

 

I don't think it's going to happen any time soon but when it is finally decided that the coliseum needs to be replaced...I think Broadway Commons would be a great place for it.

I have been preaching this for years!  It makes so much sense to wrap the entire downtown area from east to west starting with the coliseum then the ball park then the football stadium and Museum center to the west.  What a layout!

For the site the planners must look at the site as helping to define a really cool neighborhood.  There need to be neighborhood services to complement whatever residential development is there coupled with some good zoning as well as some space to eventually accomodate rail.  As for my comment above there needs to be neighborhood services to complement whatever residents are in that area to give them that authentic urban experience.

I've had the opportunity to live in Mexico, France, and China and the cities that I've lived in all had that really awesome mix of residential services that made my life really easy.

 

For the site the planners must look at the site as helping to define a really cool neighborhood.  There need to be neighborhood services to complement whatever residential development is there coupled with some good zoning as well as some space to eventually accomodate rail.  As for my comment above there needs to be neighborhood services to complement whatever residents are in that area to give them that authentic urban experience.

I've had the opportunity to live in Mexico, France, and China and the cities that I've lived in all had that really awesome mix of residential services that made my life really easy.

I could not agree more however our definitions of the neighborhood may differ.  I define it as all of OTR not just Broadway Commons.  Broadway Commons should be treated as part of the larger neighborhood and not just one of its own.  I am interested in positively affecting the greatest area possible.  That authentic urban experience is only gained by living in an authentic urban area, which already exist.

^Is it impossible to build "authentic" urban areas anymore?  This is a serious question.  Many people speak of virtually every new project as being built to appeal to a more suburban sense, and that they are faux urban areas.

 

The other factors would be zoning code...do current zoning codes around this nation allow "authentic" urban areas to be built.  I would contend that they make it very difficult, but I wonder what you all think.

 

This might be a question that should be posed in its own thread...

I am glad that Broadway Commons never happened.  Parking in Pendleton and Prospect Hill can get tight and I would rather not have people park on the hill and walk for free to get around paying for $7.-$10 parking  plus all those losers peeing on our houses and littering the neighborhood with souvenir cups.  Keep that big stuff on the river and make broadway commons a nice residential commercial area with a park and transit hub.  NO BIG BOX anything!