^^ To your question and I think it touches on this area, organic development is too slow for most people these days, particular at spots with so much 'potential.' Sycamore Hill is getting organic style development and some of the infill in Mt. Adams is pretty organic, but taking Broadway Commons in that direction would be really challenging considering all the interests that would be involved through the whole process.

Here is a question for you guys. What is the historic significance of Broadway Commons? It use to be right next to the canal, but what made it such a large parking lot? Was it the construction for I-71?

It was the CL&N railroad yard.  It was even considered as a location for the city's Union Terminal back in the 20's.  Tracks from the line can still be seen under various parts of I-71, but service ended roughly around the time the L&N Bridge's rail stopped, which was 1986-87.  The L&N viaduct was torn down to make way for Bicentennial Commons, the piers are still in the park.  The line along the riverfront which ran under Riverfront Stadium's garage also was abandoned at this time.   

Wow! how different would Cincy be if Union Terminal was on the East side?

Actually there was a proposal to route I-71 onto Columbia Parkway via Owl's Nest Park in O'Bryonville using the same ROW intended for the east side of the Rapid Transit Loop.  At this point I-71 actually comes quite close to the river before turning northeast.   

 

Also a Union Terminal at Broadway Commons was going to require a major tunnel through Walnut Hills ala the unfinished Deer Creek Tunnel from the 1850's. 

I stopped by the site this weekend and did a little inventory on the site, and every time i'm there i just dream about the potential of this site. Unfortunately i think that the best thing would have been to have the stadium there, but it's over and we need to come up with a new idea.

 

On a side not i went with the guy that i'm working on the project with. He had never seen the site or been to cincy for that mater. He really felt the same way; that the site has tremendous potential. He did however feel uncomfortable when we were over by the drop-in center, not that I blame him. We saw some guys shooting up drugs behind the YMCA, probably some of the dropin's regulars. If this area is ever going to succeed this needs to be removed. It is not good when two large males in broad daylight feel uncomfortable walking down a street. I am in Over-The-Rhine quite often when I'm home, and I knew that I wasnt in danger, but if I wasn't there all the time its not a comfortable place to be.

With the SPCA going right next to this the City really needs to wake up and move the dropin center. Despite what many of the people will say it would be a lot better to move this now and endure some criticism rather than have a young girl get sexually violated or something of that nature.

 

On a side note: I've been looking at some projects to use for case studies for the mixed use portion of this site, and I'm not finding a whole lot that really speaks to me. The Third Ward in Charlotte is a similar project, but it is still in it's planning phase. Columbus has the arena district, but it's a fairly different situation because of the arena. If anybody has an suggestions i would greatly appreciate it.

^Seattle has done some great projects over the past couple of years.  I'm not sure of specific names but they have a lot of nice mixed use projects being completed in the city.  I'd check it out for some ideas.

I've been making some really good progress on the project and i have almost finished up all the inventory and analysis. I'm working on the land use and zoning right now and I've been having trouble finding the descriptions for the zoning. The areas that I'm dealing with are in

CC-A  (Commercial Community Auto)

SF-20 (Residential Single Family)

RM-1.2 (Residential Muti-Family District)

CC-M (Comercial Community Mixed)

CC-P (Comercial District - Pedestrian)

DD- (Planed Retail District)

 

does anyone know where i would be able to find more detailed descriptions of what these are?

 

I know how much we all like maps and pictures on here so here is the cagis map

 

 

Browse through here...you should be able to find the definitions you're looking for.  Unfortunately my computing is sucking right now, or I would pull up the definitions myself.

 

http://www.municode.com/resources/gateway.asp?pid=19996&sid=35

^ Rando thanks for the help

 

Just thought i would share this with you guys. This is a parking regulation for any property in the Downtown Development District DD which stretches from the riverfront all the way reading road and then up to 12th street above Central Parkway. It might just be me, but i have seen very few lots that have any type of landscaping.

§ 1411-51. Landscaping.

Any lot within the DD District kept vacant for more than 180 days following the demolition of any buildings thereon shall be landscaped and thereafter maintained in good order. Landscaping shall be in accordance with a plan approved by the hearing examiner following the procedures and standards set forth in Chapter 1443. The landscaping shall be appropriate to an urban park or garden. The lot shall be fenced as appropriate for public safety and aesthetics. All plant material shown on the approved plan shallbe watered, fertilized, pruned, kept free from weeds and litter and replaced if diseased, injured or dead, consistent with good horticultural practices. Such lots shall not be used for storage.

 

Another interesting thing is that the zoning for parking prohibits surface lots in "Parking Subdistrict X" and that goes up to about 12th above Central Parkway as well, and central parkway is primarily dominated on the south side by parking lots

 

 

^That landscaping regulation is talking about lots as in vacant lots - not parking lots.  So it is saying that you can't let the weeds and crap get out of hand...but to be honest; the City just doesn't have the resources to effectively enforce zoning regulations the way they should (there are very few cities that actually do).

 

As for the Parking Subdistrict X situation, the majority of these parking lots were probably approved prior to the approval of this item of the Zoning Code.  Therefore they would be "grandfathered" in and be allowed to maintain their operations (we don't want any "takings" now do we).  If they are indeed "grandfathered" properties, then it means that their hands are tied on what they can do to their properties since it would now be considered a non-conforming use.

for some clarifications you won't find in the code, parks are sf-20

Does anybody know where i could get a 3-D model of downtown for sketchup? I know it is possible because it is built in google earth i just dont know who would have it. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Just thought i'd give those of you who are interested a little bit of an update. I have now completely finished my inventory and analysis and am finishing up my conceptual designs. I'm now at the point where i need to chose a character type for the development. My original thoughts were to go modern as to not cannibalize any of the progress in OTR, but the more i think about it i feel that this will be out of place an not reflect the image of the OTR area or the image of CIncinnati. So i started to look at QCSII for inspiration. It is modern, but has that classic art deco feeling. I then thought of the original renderings for the banks and felt that they created the identity of a neighborhood with a classic feel, but didn't seem fake like that of Neport on the Levee. I also have thought of some of the more classic buildings that Cincy lost over the years such as the Mabely Carew building, and how that could be recreated. What do you guys think? Will this create something authentic or cheesy?

 

I wonder about some great old buildings like the Old Post Office and the Pike Opera House might be interesting models. Also the Gibson and Sinton Hotels were core Cincinnati style designs. The Gwynn bldg is a great example of an early Cincy skyscraper that is very much to human scale.

The Flimm Building is one of my favorites!

 

^

yeah i had already thought about the Old Post Office, Gibson, and Sinton, but i completely forgot about Pike's Opera House

 

I'm not familiar with the Flimm building off the top of my head, but I'll look into it.

 

How do you guys feel about that. Is that a stale idea or will it create a dynamic environment?

I always thought they should move University of Cincinnati Law School down to the Broadway Commons site if they were going to build anything there.  Sort of Lincoln's Inn Fields combination of park and academia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%27s_Inn_Fields

 

And we need more statues, equestrian and otherwise, of Grant or Sherman, not Hayes.

Robert A. Taft, large and in charge, would be another good statue.

To show Taft in charge would be historically incorrect, unless he was behind a Senate desk perhaps.

I'll grant you that.

^

Yeah i have a round-about in my solution and i was debating dubbing that "Taft Circle" with a large statue of Taft

And we need more statues, equestrian and otherwise, of Grant or Sherman, not Hayes.

 

Not Hayes?!  Come on and "Raise the Rutherford"!

^I want that T-shirt.

I was just at an auction  at the Event Center on Pendleton (beautiful old church that shows off all the old bells).  Anyway, the parking area at Broadway Commons is absolutely perfect for a new/modern arena. I mean there could not be abetter area. I realize some will say that Cincy already has one but that monstrosity on the river is so outdated and such an eyesore.  Not sure if Cincy could ever attract a pro hockey or NBA team (I would think we could given the size of the metro area) but a new arena with a new pro team would be such a boon for CBD and OTR not to mention the Pnedleton area.  Plus if the arena is state of the art, it could host concerts and ther national sporting events.  An added benefit is we could blow up US Bank arena and use the riverfront as well.  This should be a MAJOR consideraton for the powers that be.

Since U.S. Bank Arena is private land and so is Broadway Commons, I've long wondered if anyone would be up for a trade.

d, it would make perfect sense!

FULL ARTICLE AT: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/16/sports/16kc.html

 

Going to Kansas City? New Arena Waits, and Waits

 

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: March 16, 2008

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) — Shimmering glass panes cover the outside, more than 2,200 in all, reflecting sunlight and images of surrounding buildings like a huge upside-down crystal bowl.

 

Inside are dozens of flat-screen televisions around the concourses, oversized sinks and showers in the basketball locker rooms and an enormous smoker for the fans to enjoy Kansas City’s famous barbecue.

 

The new downtown Sprint Center is a world-class arena that has nearly everything. Only one piece is missing — and it may be the hardest to obtain...

 

^Nice post jmeck...I don't think it would be a good idea to build an arena with the hopes of luring a professional franchise.  With that said, the city could use a more modern arena venue for concert and other performances...but I'm not sure the cost would be worth it without a professional team ready to fill the new venue.  You could also take the Louisville course of action and work a deal to put University of Cincinnati games there.  UC would like a new arena, but would probably prefer to keep it on campus or at least VERY close.

 

I just don't see the need for a region the size of Cincy to build 3 new arenas within a relatively short time of one another.  This is not even counting the new arena for NKU.

^

I agree the site would be prime for a new arena, but i don't think that we have the need for it. Unless we could lure another franchise, but i don't see that happening. If they were able to make a contract with UC it would make sense, but like rando said it would be much better suited on campus. The only way i see that working is if there was a direct link by streetcar. Maybe that idea is not too far of a stretch.

^I agree the site would be prime for a new arena, but i don't think that we have the need for it. Unless we could lure another franchise, but i don't see that happening. If they were able to make a contract with UC it would make sense, but like rando said it would be much better suited on campus. The only way i see that working is if there was a direct link by streetcar. Maybe that idea is not too far of a stretch.

 

Even with the streetcar, Athletic Director has made it very clear that sports venues should be on campus or adjacent to it for the reason of all the dorm students.  The idea is that they pre-game, get a lot to drink, then go to the game...and stumble back to another party and/or home afterwards.  While the Cincinnati Streetcar would make it easy to get to...I just don't see it happening with the university's consent.  A new UC arena will inevitably stay in the very immediate area of main campus.

 

Those guys that are working on a Las Vegas team have also tried with Cincinnati in the past.  Apparently they have business history in Cincy and it was a dream of their to bring a team back here (hence the exhibition games that used to be held here on occasion).  Interest levels were not overly impressive (maybe because it was a freaking exhibition) and therefore interest levels to relocate a team here have faded quite a bit.

I was down on Central Parkway today and there was a guy checking the irrigation system from the Cincinnati Parks Department and he said the new finish date for the project is May 2nd.

Here are a couple of observations that I made while I was on Central Parkway today

 

                1) The on street parking is extremely under utilized. If i had to guess it was at around 20% full

                         - In my survey about 65% of people thought it was necessary to keep the on street   

                           parking

                         - In my personal opinion onstreet parking should be kept for side streets, but in my

                           preliminary design i made it reflect the survey. I am rethinking it but will be careful

                2) Someone was using the center islands to walk their dog

                         - People often say these island parks are never used, and say that these are better used as a turn lane

                         - In my design I am removing the turn lanes and expanding the parks where possible

                3) People were hanging out in the parking lot across from Kroger infront of the Cincinnatus Mural smoking (I'm 

                    assuming they worked in the Kroger building).

                         - I am proposing to convert this into a small plaza or pocket park. I know someone   

                           mentioned that it will not get any sun, but it will from about 10:30 to about 1:30

                           which are the times when plazas are used the most.

                         - This mural is really outstanding and it is being neglected in our city by being fronted 

                            with an ugly parking lot. I think we really take this for granted because during my

                            first presentation everyone really got fired up about this idea.

                           

>The idea is that they pre-game, get a lot to drink, then go to the game...and stumble back to another party and/or home afterwards. 

 

No, the primary reason why universities build arenas on their main campuses at the sacrafice of a cheaper and/or better location is because of college visits.  A university's campus is much more a recruiting tool than something to be used.  End of story. 

^I don't really think that arenas and/or stadiums are selling points to potential students.  Atletes yes, but if you have a state of the art arena/stadium off-campus I don't really think they would care.  It is the venue not the location that is the selling point to athletes...and non-athletes care more about student features like rec centers, dining halls, etc.

I go to West Virginia University and both of our stadiums are on the outskirts of campus. I can tell you from personal experience that non-student athletes like the stadiums on campus for pre-gaming festivities but also care about stadium size for being able to get tickets, but i think the athletes are more interested in a good facility. Both scenarios have pros and cons.

^I don't really think that arenas and/or stadiums are selling points to potential students.  Atletes yes, but if you have a state of the art arena/stadium off-campus I don't really think they would care.  It is the venue not the location that is the selling point to athletes...and non-athletes care more about student features like rec centers, dining halls, etc.

 

On campus facilities add to the college experience.  IMO.  It makes it feel like I "own" that or that it is mine.  I get that feeling every time I walk past Nippert or Shoemaker.  When visiting fans come to watch I feel like they are actually coming to my house (sorry Under Armour).  Sense of pride, location and ownership adds to the campus/college lifestyle.  I think Xavier is much more happier that the Cintas Center is on campus, rather than going to the Cincinnati Gardens or US Bank. 

This

 

 

or this? You decide.....

 

 

 

Im going to get this rendered soon so ill update it once i get that done...

 

This is such a great mural its really a shame they fronted it with a surface lot

 

Does anyone know the name of the building that the mural is on? Is it owned by kroger?

Did you produce those graphics?  If so, nice work.

thanks

That's sweet!!

Yeah i feel that this surface lot is a huge waste of potential. (All surface lots are, but this one more than others) This would really be a doable project, given a little support from kroger and the city

here's something interesting... Kroger Co. commissioned the mural in 1983 to commemorate their 100th anniversary. 2008 is their 125th wouldn't it be great to see them drop some coin on a project like this? just a thought.

^Good luck with that...

 

To contact Kroger with your comments or questions:

E-mail us by clicking into our Customer Comments form.

Call us at: 1-866-221-4141

 

Mail us at:

1014 Vine Street

Cincinnati, Ohio 45202-1100

Maybe they can find some contractors that take the Kroger Plus Card. :wink:

 

Hook em up!!!

great idea!

I'm Finishing up the project and here are a few of my presentation boards. They haven't been spell checked yet and most of the text needs to be edited still. I'm running on little sleep so please forgive any errors. (YES I KNOW THE NORTH ARROW IS NOT CORRECT)

 

This is the master plan for the entire site. There was not a lot done along Central Parkway until Broadway Commons, but the medians were widened and the turn lanes were removed. Statues of Ohio Presidents were put in the center of each median park. The Roundabout was dubbed Cincinnatus Circle with a centerpeice statue paying hommage to Cincinnatus. The Design of the circle was to act as a gateway into broadway Commons. At the Eastern end of the site the glass atrium acts as an arcade for Broadway Commons.

 

 

 

I essentially worked on this project by myself the kid i worked with already has a job lined up and desided he didnt want to do a whole lot of work. So don't judge it too hard. The site was kept at lower density so that it wouldn't hinder OTR too much, but still fostered an urban flavor. No structures were mor than 6 stories tall, and it was primarily targeted at entertainment and retail, for the upper class (Hyde Park, Mt. Adams), but did have all functions office space, residential (apartment, condos and town homes), retail apparel and restaurant.

 

 

 

Looking west in the park along the Canal waterfeature towards the glass atrium

 

 

 

I must say that those are some very clean graphics.  Nicely done.

Here's what would make urban planning better: when you come up with one of these ideas, you have to come up with an approximate cost

Great job!  I would love to see that someday!!!!  Impressive!