Posted May 21, 200520 yr Two stories, both from 5/21/05. The first is from the Enquirer, the second from the Post: Green Twp. to land high-end shopping? By Joe Wessels Enquirer contributor GREEN TOWNSHIP - A new 650,000-square-foot high-end shopping center is being proposed for this western Hamilton County community. The shopping and dining center - valued at $125 million - would be located along Harrison Avenue near Westwood-Northern Boulevard, about half way between Filview Circle and Lee Court. Blue Ash-based developer Silverman and Co. Inc. plans to develop the 100-acre site nearly across from the K-Mart shopping center. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050521/BIZ01/505210359/1076/rss01 Developer proposes largest center since Northgate By Greg Paeth Post staff reporter A Blue Ash developer has plans to build a $125 million shopping and restaurant complex in Green Township that is being described as the biggest commercial development on the West Side since Northgate Mall was completed in 1972. Three anchor tenants which would occupy stores with about 100,000 square feet of retail space - slightly smaller than a typical Home Depot - are interested, said Hal Silverman, president of the developer, Silverman and Company. Click on link for article. http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050521/BIZ/505210310/1001/RSS04
June 23, 200519 yr From the 6/23/05 Cincinnati Post: Proposed center irks some By Troy Lyle Post staff reporter Tensions are running high over a 100-acre shopping center proposed for just off Harrison Avenue that is one of the last major natural green spaces in Green Township. At a public hearing Wednesday at the Green Township Administrative Complex, more than 120 residents argued the development would decrease the values of their homes because of the traffic jams and storm water and sewage problems it would create. Click on link for article. http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050623/NEWS01/506230359
June 28, 200519 yr From the 6/27/05 Enquirer: Mall plan raises West Side hackles Developers seek large Dent site By Cliff Radel Enquirer staff writer GREEN TOWNSHIP - His neighbors are scrambling to preserve their peaceful valley. They're signing petitions, handing out fliers and going to meetings. They want to gaze upon tree-lined ravines, wildlife and healthy streams. Not a shopping mall. Not even one worth $125 million and named Legacy Place. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050627/NEWS01/506270347/1056/rss02
June 28, 200519 yr I think the west side could use something but not at the expense of scenic greenspace. What empty stores are one of the residents referring too?
June 28, 200519 yr My guess is in the old Kroger complex area on Harrison Ave. Now, there is a new Kroger by the movie theatre. I forget if theres a K-Mart there too, but in that complex, I remember there being empty stores and that is practically across the street from where they want to build this center. I for one am for it. The west side needs more options! I say, put it in Harrison...hahaha, oh no wait, theres a Super Wal-Mart going there. Oh well!!!
June 28, 200519 yr The empty stores are on Glenway. Kroger moved from one side of the street to the other from Westernhills Plaza plus there are other empty store fronts. Thriftway, Service Merchandise and others have closed in Glenway Crossing. That's a big empty area. I think there is a bigger issue here of poor and xxxx(something I regret typing) moving slowing west and having a negative affect on these older areas of the westside(not offense). The Bridgetown road area has booming subdivisions. Lots of McMansions and this Legacy Place would be aimed toward them.
June 28, 200519 yr No, thats not where I am thinking. There is a strip mall on Harrison Avenue where Kroger used to be before it shut down and moved by the theatre down the road. I think there is a K-Mart there now. I think they filled the old Kroger up with some mattress store, but I forget. This strip mall is on the left side of the road if youre heading towards Glenway. I know there has always been problems with filling that particular strip mall.
June 28, 200519 yr I can't remember what replaced the Kroger either. But my point was the people who live near Harrison Rd use to shop the Glenway Strip Malls and since Harrison has been built up with a White Castle and a car wash(yes, I'm not a big fan of annihilating a hillside for such things) they no longer travel to Glenway and those shopping areas have suffered as a result. Legacy sounds huge, I guess it wouldn't compete with Northgate Mall. Harrison Rd traffic is terrible and it will only get worst.
June 28, 200519 yr I would think that Legacy would cause Northgate to suffer a little, but not terribly. There is still a large middle-class population within a reasonable distance from the mall. Northgate isn't really an "upscale" mall per se, but they do have certain upscale shops that all malls have. I'd be interested in seeing what kind of retailers they are going to try to lure in, and if it will have an effect on local business. Anyway, I took the liberty of putting together a little aerial map to help visualize. I-74 is just off the screen at the top and Glenway starts just past Bridgetown Rd., which runs east-west just off the bottom of the map:
June 29, 200519 yr Did K-mart close? The map says former.....Last time I checked it was still open (last weekend).
June 29, 200519 yr I don't know. I just assumed it closed because most of the other ones did. It might still be open.
June 30, 200519 yr Welll, as I stated, K-mart was open last weekend. I went in to look for something Meijer did not have and I really didn't wan't to drive all the way to Wal-mart (time constraints). I was really pleasantly surprised with how clean it was and organized. Very different then the K-marts before bankruptcy. I think K-mart only closed underperforming stores during bankruptcy not all of them. I mean after all the ended up making enough money to buy Sears out. You don't get money like that by closing all your stores. :-D I really think Legacy should be built. That area along harrison is slated for business/retail in the master planning anyway. For anyone who thought the westside was going to remain scenic and rural forever, abviously never went to the east side. I am really not for urbansprawl, but at the same time the far westside deserves its day in the sun.
July 6, 200519 yr This appeared in the 7/6/05 Northwest Press: Harrison Avenue mall proposed By Kurt Backscheider Staff Reporter GREEN TWP. - Karen Davis said there is no reason for an upscale mall to encroach upon residents and eliminate a large area of greenspace. Click on link for article. http://www.communitypress.com/GreenTownship-NWPress-OH/News.asp?pageType=Story&StoryID=15317&Section=Main%20News&OnlineSection=Main%20News&SectionPubDate=7/6/2005%202:59:22%20AM&RefDate=7/6/2005%202:59:22%20AM
August 2, 200519 yr From the 8/1/05 Enquirer: PHOTO: Bill Merk holds a map of the area where developers want to build the Legacy Place mall on the West Side. He and his wife Nancy often walk an abandoned railway trail behind their property. The gray area on the map would be the proposed development area. His property is the orange area. The Enquirer/Michael E. Keating MAP: Proposed Legacy Place site. PHOTO: Legacy Place mall is being touted for the area across from Manchester Plaza (lower-right) and the new Kroger (upper right) on Harrison Avenue in Green Township. The Enquirer/Glenn Hartong Feud over Legacy Place $125 million upscale mall plan running afoul of nature-loving West Siders By Cliff Radel Enquirer staff writer GREEN TWP. - The land is beautiful. Darned near pristine. Tall trees. Rolling hills. Still valleys. Clear creeks. Wildlife. The shopping center's plans are ambitious. Upscale stores and restaurants. Something the area lacks. All wrapped up in a 99.8-acre, $125-million package known as Legacy Place. One slight problem: The ambitious development will gobble up the beautiful land. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050801/NEWS01/508010364/1056/rss02
August 2, 200519 yr "He says we need sit-down restaurants," said the florist. "What does he think we do on the West Side, eat out of troughs?" :lol:
August 2, 200519 yr The map that Grasscat posted hurts my eyes. I see what appears to be a beautiful forested area that would be gutted for another mall. How far in mileage is this place from Northgate? It seems that a shopping center would be better over by Delhi and the Palisades area and not down the road from Northgate which already has to deal with Cincinnati Mills competition.
August 2, 200519 yr ^ It's maybe 5 or 6 miles as the crow flies, but longer by roads. I'm sure they chose the area because of the amount of traffic along the Harrison corridor as well as the interstate access.
August 2, 200519 yr I live along the Harrison Avenue Corridor, and I also worked for a company that performed a corridor study for the area. It's extremely impressive the amount of traffic that will traversing the corridor in only 20 years if only low density development occurs on the road. The developers of Legacy Place are very much aware of the projected volumes, and by placing themselves at a prime intersection, they guarantee visibility. Add to that future interchange improvements (Rybolt Rd is atrocious), and it will make it even more attractive for some large development to take over this greenspace. One of the things I found to be interesting from the article, other than it being the headline, was how many people were complaining about how they were going to lose the precious greenspace in their backyard. While I understand that could be a source for heart-ache, they can't really sit around thinking that if they curb the mall project it would protect the green space. I am certain that if Legacy Place falls through that another project will rise up and gooble up the space, whether it residential or commercial. It's happening all along Harrison Avenue, and it is sure to happen there. I think the only person that could have had a valid argument was Trustee Grote, who is worried about infrastructure stresses, such as traffic and storm water runoff. The site is extremely hilly, and will require a lot of earthwork before construction can begin. Stormwater retention is a real thing to think about; an inadequate retention system would cause runoff to take sediment towards the properties on Hutchinson Rd. That would not be good. I understand their concerns on the project, but I think like it or not some form of development is going to happen in this area. The primary land owner tried to sell his land to the township, and nothing ever came of that, and so we have this development instead. Add this development to the multiude of other developments and proposed developments, and it will make Harrison Avenue a very different road in 20 years. It is almost destined to become another "Colerain Avenue." "What does he think we do on the West Side, eat out of troughs?" That's funny.
August 2, 200519 yr ^ I agree with you, TraderJake. There was absolutely no way that Harrison would remain pristine and wooded forever.
August 9, 200519 yr West Side shopping center is rejected in vote Legacy Place called 'too ambitious' By Cliff Radel Enquirer staff writer The Enquirer/Keli Dailey GREEN TWP. - It's back to the drawing board for Legacy Place. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050809/NEWS01/508090357
August 9, 200519 yr Did you see this in the Reader's Views yesterday: West Siders 'deserve' Legacy project I find amusing the cries of "foul" from the West Siders objecting to the new Legacy development. These are the same people who fought the creation of a rail/trail on the disputed land, which ironically would have spared this land from the malling that will come. Years back at the behest of greedy homeowners and savvy land speculators, a clueless Cincinnati City Council made sure this spectacular trail would not be built by destroying the railroad trestles and relinquishing the right-of-way. So instead of leaving a legacy to their descendents of a beautiful linear corridor of shared-use green space, West Siders can console themselves with a "Legacy" mall, with as much as 10 whole acres of grassy berm! I regret saying it, but they deserve it. Kevin Reynolds Groesbeck
August 9, 200519 yr I don't know if the residents deserve it so to say, but I don't think this person from Groesbeck has any authority to say anything about this project. I bet that if it was to have been built, all the amenities that Legacy Place would have offered would also have existed on Colerain Avenue, which is the main thouroughfare that bisects the neighborhood of Groesbeck. JCPenney and Target sure were upscale retailers, weren't they? I am sure that they would be better suited for a redevelopment of Manchester Plaza, and not an "upscale establishment" such as Legacy Place. I know for sure that I don't view either store as being upscale. In fact, I believe I'd go so far as to say that Target is a nice 'discount retailer.' As for the project itself, while denied I am certain that it will comeback in someform. Perhaps smaller, perhaps a larger barrier, perhaps a sprawling residential subdivision, I don't really know. But I seriously doubt that the developer is going to let this fall through. They know very welll what Harrison Avenue will be like 20 years from now, and will do their best to help increase the traffic volumes. I'm sorry to say it, but even if Legacy Place becomes only a residential development, which is unlikely, traffic volumes will only be a little fazed, and the infrastructure will still be gridlocked 20 years from now. West siders can thank that to the building boom occurring in the townships, and all the proposed developments in addition to Legacy Place along the corridor. As I've said before, the chances of this property remaining pristine land is virtually nil. Change is going to come to the corridor, whether residents like it or not.
August 9, 200519 yr Yeah? WTF!?!? JC Penney and Target? They're good enough stores but have no place in a so-called "upscale" development. Perhaps the developer thinks that those are considered "upscale" to West-siders. After all, didn't Silverman think that West-siders eat out of troughs? :D Agree on the last paragraph as well--the land will eventually be developed and its quite likely to be something even worse, or at least less useful to the local residents. In fact, the following story from today's Post addresses those fears of just what might come to that land: As proposal fails, new fears arise By Stephenie Steitzer Post staff reporter Some residents and officials fear the fight hasn't concluded yet over a proposed 658,000-square-foot shopping center, whose plans Green Township Trustees rejected Monday. During a meeting that attracted more than 200 residents, trustees voted 2-1 to reject a proposal from Blue Ash company Silverman and Co. to develop 100 acres off Harrison Avenue. The developer had sought a change from residential to retail zoning for the tract. ... That idea, however, has sparked some fears that a Super Wal-Mart would be developed. :wave: Click on link for article. http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050809/NEWS01/508090350
August 10, 200519 yr i think that would be really ironic if a wal mart were to be built. Am I the only one bummed that this project did not get passed?
August 10, 200519 yr This "upscale" or not thing seems to be attracting all the attention, but if any retail whatsoever goes in there, the result is likely to be the same: a huge building and a sea of parking.
August 10, 200519 yr ^Agree You know what would be a good way to keep Wal-Mart from developing the parcels under contention? Redeveloping Manchester Plaza, which would include razing K-Mart and the old Kroger's, and building the Supercenter right there. I'm sure Wal-Mart wants to develop on the corridor, it's heavily travelled, high growth oriented, and their current Wal-Mart in Western Hills is a cess pit. Why not placate them by redeveloping a lagging commercial center, much like what was done with the K-Mart Plaza on Colerain Avenue? It makes sense.
August 11, 200519 yr There are a couple of points that didn't appear in other articles in this article from the 8/10/05 Enquirer" Legacy Place rejected, but not gone Trustees leave door open for West Side shopping center By Cliff Radel Enquirer staff writer GREEN TOWNSHIP - What's next for Legacy Place? That question is being asked after Monday night's decision by township trustees to reject the plans as submitted for the proposed West Side shopping center, described by developers as "upscale". Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050810/NEWS01/508100375/1056/rss02
August 18, 200519 yr From the 8/17/05 Western Hills Press: Trustees deny Legacy Place plans By Kurt Backscheider Staff Reporter GREEN TWP. - Although the board of trustees denied the proposal for Legacy Place, it's not likely the nearly 100-acre proposed site will stay green space forever. Click on link for article. http://www.communitypress.com/CheviotOH/News.asp?pageType=Story&StoryID=16676&Section=Main%20News&OnlineSection=Main%20News&SectionPubDate=8/17/2005%203:03:58%20AM&RefDate=8/17/2005%203:03:58%20AM
August 22, 200519 yr Legacy zoning defeat raises question: What's 'upscale'? Dan Monk Senior staff reporter What does a West Sider mean when he says "upscale?" Tony Upton doesn't know. The Green Township trustee was the only "yes" vote for Legacy Place, a $125 million Harrison Avenue retail project that lost a recent zoning fight. Township residents complained it would cause traffic trouble, destroy green space, exacerbate draining problems and, yes, not be upscale enough. Click on link for article. http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2005/08/22/tidbits1.html
September 26, 200519 yr From the 9/21/05 Northwest Press: New plan offered for Legacy Place land By Kurt Backscheider Community Press Staff Writer GREEN TWP. - Opponents of the Legacy Place proposal know the issue is not dead so they've developed an alternative plan for the area near Filview Circle and Harrison Avenue. Citizens for the Preservation of a Safe Clean Green Township contend the proposed 658,000-square-foot open-air shopping center is too big and have come up with a smaller development plan they are calling The Shops at Blue Creek in recognition of the stream and woods they want to protect. Click on link for article. http://www.communitypress.com/GreenTownship-NWPress-OH/News.asp?pageType=Story&StoryID=18006&Section=Main%20News&OnlineSection=Main%20News&SectionPubDate=9/21/2005%202:25:17%20AM&RefDate=9/21/2005%202:25:17%20AM
October 15, 200519 yr Well...this will at least contain a possible future Legacy Place and may--perhaps--be enough to change the minds of some of the local residents. I have Hutchinson Rd. labelled on the map I posted earlier in the thread. From the 10/5/05 Western Hills Press: Township buys acreage on Hutchinson Land may be used for future park space BY KURT BACKSCHEIDER | COMMUNITY PRESS STAFF WRITER GREEN TWP. -- The township board of trustees approved buying residential property on Hutchinson Road. At their Sept. 26's meeting, the trustees announced plans to spend about $1 million on the Wurzelbacher and Harmeyer properties. Together the two properties total about 19 acres. Click on link for article. http://news.communitypress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051005/NEWS01/510050481/1160/Local
October 15, 200519 yr If the idiots don't get it then here it is. Bring in businesses they pay tax dollars your area benefits. Don't bring them in, you die.
October 15, 200519 yr Well, that is nice, but I wonder if it implies that they are now going to go for a development that was on the scale of the original site plans, or if it will now become something more modest. Personally I am hoping for something that is more upscale than Target and JCPenney, since it is a slap in the face to call those entities upscale to West Siders, and most of the new residential development going up in the area could actually support an upscale shopping experience, contrary to developer's beliefs that everyone on the West Side is thrifty and enjoys high class shopping at Target. There still are many questions to answer about this development, such as site runoff and retention, and the sheer amount of traffic that this development will create. I think that before anything is built at this site that these issues will have to be addressed.
October 15, 200519 yr Jcpenney and Target could give Dillards a run for its money. The westside Dillards is horrid. Upscale would be nice, however I would be happy with just more shopping options. We don't have a lot of choices in this neck of the woods.
October 16, 200519 yr ^ Are you talking about the Dillard's on Glenway? I've never been to that one. I went to the one at Northgate shortly after it changed from a McAlpin's. I haven't been back since.
November 22, 200519 yr Yes, grasscat, that is the one. I have never been in a Dillard's that had so little to offer the shoppers. The selections were very limited. I will never go back.
November 22, 200519 yr I don't understand why they are not looking at the area further down Harrision on the opposite side of the street. Currently there is a Kmart and maybe a Cheep Bed's & Furnature in the shopping plaza. I think the rest of it is empty. The lot is already graded, there is a light at the entrance and all the utilities are there. I'm sure the developer would actually save money buying out the current owner, razing the plaza and building whats on the plans than trying to fill in the ravine and build all the needed infrastructure.
November 25, 200519 yr The developer wanted to build on 100 acres. The K-mart site an adjacent parcels only adds up to a little under 70 acres, which would mean a scaled-back project. Some of the land is also owned by the county. I don't know if that would make things easier or more difficult.
November 25, 200519 yr ^ If I remember correctly the entire parcel that Manchester Plaza sits on is owned by the county. It also is 70 some acres, but then a large portion of that sits underneath High Tension Power Lines. Personally I would not want to work under a bunch of lines that give me cancer. In addition, I do not know if the county is looking at redeveloping Manchester Plaza, but the township definitely forsees the center being developed in the future, and studies have been completed that accomodate that. I believe though that these two projects will develop separately of each other, and it would not surprise me in the least if Manchester Plaza gave way to a Walmart, given the atrocious nature and condition of the one in Western Hills.
January 31, 200619 yr From the 1/30/06 Enquirer: Retail center's return possible Buffer zone part of new Legacy Place BY CLIFF RADEL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER GREEN TWP. - Legacy Place, the controversial West Side shopping center, could be making another attempt at becoming a reality. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060130/NEWS01/601300330/1056/rss02
January 31, 200619 yr It almost feels as though Green Township is trying to leverage its power to get more land for its Benken park, amongst other things. Selling back to the township 35-40 acres is a lot of land. Will they want to do that? Perhaps that could be used as leverage for something as atrocious as a Super Walmart, which could be used to redevelop Manchester Plaza rather than tear up undisturbed property. I guess will find out the plans in 45 days or less.
February 10, 200619 yr From the 2/9/06 Enquirer: Legacy Place is downsized West Side retail proposal now reduced to 60 acres BY CLIFF RADEL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER GREEN TWP. - Get ready for Legacy Place II. A revised version of the once-rejected, hotly debated shopping center is to be presented to the township's Land Use Planning Committee during a public meeting Feb. 20. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060209/NEWS01/602090373/1056
February 10, 200619 yr ^ In addition, I do not know if the county is looking at redeveloping Manchester Plaza, but the township definitely forsees the center being developed in the future, and studies have been completed that accomodate that. I believe though that these two projects will develop separately of each other, and it would not surprise me in the least if Manchester Plaza gave way to a Walmart, given the atrocious nature and condition of the one in Western Hills. If Legacy Place is built with Target as one of the anchors, I think that K-Mart in Manchester Plaza will go out of business. It would not surprise me if a Wal-Mart takes its place, possibly a Super Wal-Mart. The Western Hills Wal-Mart was actually decent when it first opened. It didn't take long for it to go downhill, which seems to be typical of this company.
February 10, 200619 yr If Legacy Place is built with Target as one of the anchors, I think that K-Mart in Manchester Plaza will go out of business. It would not surprise me if a Wal-Mart takes its place, possibly a Super Wal-Mart. The Western Hills Wal-Mart was actually decent when it first opened. It didn't take long for it to go downhill, which seems to be typical of this company. I completely agree. The Western Hills Wal-Mart is extremely frightening (although they all are), and I think from a business standpoint it makes sense for Wal-Mart to consider relocating (think traffic in 5 years). I feel that this Plan will actually make it through all the hoops and come into reality. The township will get the buffer it wants in addition to the tax base it desires. I just hope that the Glenway avenue corridor does not suffer any more than it already has. It may look like a Ghost Town in several years.
February 10, 200619 yr I completely agree. The Western Hills Wal-Mart is extremely frightening (although they all are), and I think from a business standpoint it makes sense for Wal-Mart to consider relocating (think traffic in 5 years). I feel that this Plan will actually make it through all the hoops and come into reality. The township will get the buffer it wants in addition to the tax base it desires. I just hope that the Glenway avenue corridor does not suffer any more than it already has. It may look like a Ghost Town in several years. I went to Glenway Crossing the other day, and it was depressing. While the area with Panera and Best Buy seems to be booming, the area where Thriftway used to be is pretty vacant. I thought it was very sad to see, especially since the center is not that old.
February 17, 200619 yr Legacy Place shrinks size of stores, adds park Green Twp. considers anew BY CLIFF RADEL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER GREEN TWP. - Legacy Place has been downsized - with some surprises. Plans for the shopping center submitted for Monday's meeting of the township's Land Use Planning Committee held two eye-openers for Adam Goetzman, the township development director. No link available for article.
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