July 31, 200618 yr The agreement contains restrictions that would keep public buses - as well as sexually-oriented businesses and fast-food restaurants - out of the proposed 63-acre complex near the intersection of Westwood Northern Boulevard and Harrison Avenue. Why would they prevent buses from being allow? There's a good chance potential employees would need transportation to get to work.
August 1, 200618 yr Maybe this Shopping Center could get Crate & Barrel. This would be a sign that the Westside can hold it's own against the east side.
August 1, 200618 yr The agreement contains restrictions that would keep public buses - as well as sexually-oriented businesses and fast-food restaurants - out of the proposed 63-acre complex near the intersection of Westwood Northern Boulevard and Harrison Avenue. Why would they prevent buses from being allow? There's a good chance potential employees would need transportation to get to work. I know some people say that the buses are responsible for the decline of Western Hills Plaza. They say it brings undesirables to the area. I'm just repeating what I've heard people say - I don't necessarily agree with this myself. Buses have been going through Western Hills Plaza (and many other shopping centers) for years. I have a hard time believing this is responsible for the problems there.
August 3, 200618 yr I spoke with the landlord from New Plan regarding the buses actually loading and unloading on the WHP property. He assured me that by Nov., they will no longer be allowed on the Plaza's property. I am not against public transportation, however if you have ever walked anywhere near the bus stop in front of Bed Bath and Beyond and TJmaxx........ Well, it is pretty discusting.... Trash all over the ground, carts turned on thier side for temp. seating, you get the picture!!!! Put the bus stop out on Glenway Ave where it belongs. I do hope this mall manager is serious.......Just my opinion though.
August 3, 200618 yr ^Of course you're going to have a lot of trash in an area if there are a lot of people in that area. Why doesn't the plaza get some people out and about and maintain the freakin' property. They do this in many other areas (amusement parks, indoor malls, downtowns, etc)...why are these outdoor plazas any different. The owners of these places have to step up and take responsibility for their own inadequacies. Western Hills Plaza has a terrible mix of stores, relied too heavily on Kroger/Media Play, put little maintenence into the property, and allowed the place to become the dump it is today. There are bus stops all over and just because there is a bus stop, does not mean that it is going to be a dumpy area. See: Anderson Town Center, Downtown Cincy, Tylersville Road, Kenwood Mall, Blue Ash, etc.
August 4, 200618 yr I heard that during the riots, the Deveroes was the only business that got vandalized in that shopping center. lmao is that true? I'm really surprised that there's an Old Navy and Bed Bath and Beyond there. These are tenants that pay extremely high rent in premiere malls with security and excellent maintenance. They should be demanding the same standards from this shopping center, or else threaten to leave. UncleRando, I agree brother, these shopping centers need to have better management, maintenance, security, etc. If they plan on surviving, its frickin necessary when all of the competative malls are doing it. It may cost extra but they'll get more traffic and more business. When we're rich entrepreneurs in the near future we'll just buy those suckers out. Then we'll build a 15 story mix-use parking garage/mega mall/restaurants/condos/whatever else, in its place. :wink2: The west side will reign supreme!
August 6, 200618 yr This blurb appeared in today's Hamilton & Clermont County notebook section of the Enquirer: Legacy shopping center headed for Nov. 7 ballot Legacy Place appears to be headed for the November ballot. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060806/NEWS01/608060377/1056/rss02
August 7, 200618 yr I'm ready and waiting to vote down this piece of crap!!!!! When we're rich entrepreneurs in the near future we'll just buy those suckers out. Then we'll build a 15 story mix-use parking garage/mega mall/restaurants/condos/whatever else, in its place. The west side will reign supreme! Yes it will....yes it will. I do have a 'pie in the sky' idea for Glenway (from Bridgetown - Lawrence). I feel that this would be an ideal place for a mixed-use strip. There is good density in the surrounding neighborhoods (include catwalks/walking trails, sidewalks) and the types of businesses along this strip would lend themselves very well to a mixed-use 2-3 story buildings (a couple bars, some food, dry cleaners, jewelery store, a couple of offices, tanning bed, and some other small retailers). I can picture it everytime I drive this stretch of road.....a narrowed Glenway Ave with improved pedestrian access (sidewalks, crosswalks, mid-block crossings), a tree-lined street, rear loaded parking off the street (where bldgs currently sit), 2-3 story buildings that have small setbacks................wouldn't it be grand? :roll: Sorry now back on topic....Legacy Place sucks :whip:
August 7, 200618 yr I can picture it everytime I drive this stretch of road.....a narrowed Glenway Ave with improved pedestrian access (sidewalks, crosswalks, mid-block crossings), a tree-lined street, rear loaded parking off the street (where bldgs currently sit), 2-3 story buildings that have small setbacks................wouldn't it be grand? :roll: So long as ODOT controls Glenway and subsequently Bridgetown, you will never see those roads get narrower anytime soon. That area is already a traffic nightmare (Glenway/Race from Lawrence to Harrision), so I would never see the public go for a narrower road there. Boy it will be interesting to see how they improve the intersection at Glenway and Bridgetown. Anyways back on topic, here's to a fun and spirited vote in the non-township zoning area of Green Township. A pity I live in another township that does its own zoning, but hey, our trustees are doing their darndest to anger the HCRPC and the major employer in the township.
August 7, 200618 yr So long as ODOT controls Glenway and subsequently Bridgetown, you will never see those roads get narrower anytime soon. That area is already a traffic nightmare (Glenway/Race from Lawrence to Harrision), so I would never see the public go for a narrower road there. Boy it will be interesting to see how they improve the intersection at Glenway and Bridgetown. As far as the traffic goes on that section of Glenway, I wouldn't say that the problem is the lack of lanes/width of roadway, but rather terrible intersections and traffic light timing. They did recently improve the timing at the Glenway/Lawrence intersections and it has made a great improvement to the traffic situation. I would personally suggest keeping 2 lanes in either directions with a landscaped median (left turn lanes periodically for combined parking areas/enterances). But the width of the lanes could be reduced and the median would also be smaller than a typical lane width. If you were to combine this with bumped-out curbs at cross-walks, then you would have something special....anyways back to the topic :laugh:
August 17, 200618 yr Commissioners OK public vote on shopping center zone change BY CLIFF RADEL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER Legacy Place took another step toward landing on the November ballot Wednesday. Hamilton County Commissioners voted - without comment - to approve ballot language allowing voters in the part of Green Township covered by county zoning to decide on a zoning change required to build Legacy Place, a proposed 63-acre shopping center. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060817/NEWS01/608170403/1056
September 5, 200618 yr SITE PLAN Legacy Place fate linked to park Zone change for mall would trigger purchase of nearby land BY CLIFF RADEL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER GREEN TOWNSHIP - In the beginning of the debate over Legacy Place, Green Township Trustees Chairman Chuck Mitchell said the controversy over building the shopping center on rugged, tree-lined land was "not about green space." Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060905/NEWS01/609050371/1056
September 5, 200618 yr How in the hell do you get to this park?!?!?!? Do you have to drive through the mega commercial development.....what if you want to jog/walk to the park (you know be active)...I guess you can enjoy the scenic jog/walk through the massive parking lot for Legacy Place. THIS PROJECT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! VOTE NO IN NOV!!!!! :whip:
September 5, 200618 yr Also, I don't think anyone's brought this up, and I just realized it myself looking at a map, but this development will <b>block the old C&O right-of-way</b>, severely hampering future commuter or light rail in the area. There will probably be so much grading that to run a line through in the future they would literally have to tunnel under this shopping center. I think because of the hill behind Veteran's Park they can't even potentially connect the two easily with a bike trail although it appears that's all that ROW is going to be good for after this.
September 5, 200618 yr ^Don't worry....they've been blasting through rail right of ways in this area like there is no tommorow. Its not like the township has embraced mass transit in the past why would they care to do so in the future? The agreement contains restrictions that would keep public buses ....out of the proposed 63-acre complex near the intersection of Westwood Northern Boulevard and Harrison Avenue. Here are some of the ROW areas: -Glenway Crossings (i know nice tribute with the name) -all along Wesselman Rd. -now along Harrison Ave.
September 5, 200618 yr Also, I don't think anyone's brought this up, and I just realized it myself looking at a map, but this development will <b>block the old C&O right-of-way</b>, severely hampering future commuter or light rail in the area. There will probably be so much grading that to run a line through in the future they would literally have to tunnel under this shopping center. I think because of the hill behind Veteran's Park they can't even potentially connect the two easily with a bike trail although it appears that's all that ROW is going to be good for after this. Pshh like they'd ever utilize something like that. Why mass transit like that would enable thugs and gangsters and God knows what else to easily come to the area and cause chaos, bringing property values down!
September 6, 200618 yr I have heard rumors that Green Twp. is going to use the existing R.O.W. between Veterans park/ Nathaniel Greene Lodge and the new Legacy Park and have bike paths and provide connections through the 2 parks...if this happens....i would support the proposed plan. Connectivity through the parks would definetely be a +. So you would not have to park at Legacy to get there, you could walk/run/bike through the new green connector.
September 6, 200618 yr ^I just don't know.....I think I smell a skunk! Something is sketchy about this project, and if it goes through I predict a similar fallout as the Center of Cincinnati fiasco.
September 6, 200618 yr The problem is is that without that C&O ROW, there is little chance for a grade separated transit line ever reaching the population centers of the west side. If 5 miles of the C&O up the hill to Glenway with park & rides at Glenway Crossing and Glenway Plaza were reconstructed, that is at least $300-500 million. Add any major tunnels to that route and you're talking at least $100 million more per mile. Fairmount + something paralleling the Western Hills Viaduct adds on two more miles and at least $200 million to reach the old subway. So with any major tunnels you're easily flirting with $1 billion. Including stations and so averaging 30mph, it would be about a 20~ minute trip from Legacy Place to Fountain Square, however I'm worried it would even be able to maintain that average speed due to the climb and then its close runing past so many homes. Obviously a slower train is a quieter train. A possibly cheaper option would be to run a line from the C&O in fairmount along those disused tracks on the west side of the Mill Creek through Lower Price Hill and then into the Riverfront Transit Center, a slightly longer route than the old subway but obviously it doesn't require restoration of the old subway.
September 28, 200618 yr Park planner is hired THE ENQUIRER The Cincinnati-based landscape architectural firm of Vivian Llambi & Associates has been hired by Green Township trustees to develop a master plan for township parks and open space. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060928/NEWS01/609280390/1056
October 8, 200618 yr From the 10/4/06 Western Hills Press: SITE PLAN: This is the drawing of the proposed township park behind Legacy Place. Architects present plan for Legacy park BY KURT BACKSCHEIDER | COMMUNITY PRESS STAFF WRITER GREEN TWP. -- Connectivity and environmental preservation are the main themes in the design of the proposed township park behind Legacy Place. Click on link for article. http://news.communitypress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061004/NEWS01/610040750/1071/Local
October 23, 200618 yr Christopher Auffrey...thats great, he is one of my proffessors at UC! I had no idea he was involved with this organization...good to know us planners are fighting the same fight! :clap: Forum to discuss Legacy Place CINCINNATI ENQUIRER October 23, 2006 GREEN TWP. - A public forum, "What every citizen needs to know about the fiscal impact of Legacy Place," takes place 7 p.m. Monday at the Pilgrim United Church of Christ, 4418 Bridgetown Road. Click on link for article. Information: www.legacyplacemall.com or 513-574-4867 http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061023/NEWS01/610230394/1056/COL02
October 23, 200618 yr Haha. Auffrey is so neutral in class...Id like to hear some of his opinions on certain issues. If hes discussing the financial impact I suppose he's for this development.
October 23, 200618 yr ^Ah, he plays the neutral card, but he is solidly on the progressive planning side!
October 24, 200618 yr Public debates Legacy Place BY CLIFF RADEL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER GREEN TWP. - First a lecture, then a debate broke out at Monday night's forum on Legacy Place. The professorial presentation on the proposed shopping center quickly morphed into a spirited exchange as Green Township officials raised voices with some of the 130 audience members at Bridgetown's Pilgrim United Church of Christ for the event presented by Citizens for the Preservation of a Safe, Clean Green Township. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061024/NEWS01/610240382/1056/COL02
October 24, 200618 yr "Generally," he said, "when a development with controversy or questions is proposed, the developer is asked by the governmental body to develop a fiscal impact analysis" to determine the costs and benefits of a development. Such an analysis, Auffrey said, would cost "between $20,000 and $50,000." Adam Goetzman, the township's development director, said neither the township nor the developer, Blue Ash-based Hal Silverman, had performed a fiscal impact analysis. WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?! I'm sorry exactly how did you analyze the impact then Mr. Goetzman??
October 31, 200618 yr Anti-Legacy signs disappear THE ENQUIRER Somebody is stealing campaign yard signs opposing Legacy Place. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061031/NEWS01/610310398/1056/COL02
November 4, 200618 yr From the 11/1/06 Western Hills Press: What will be Green's Legacy? Most township voters will decide if new zoning amendment will OK a new mall along Harrison Avenue BY KURT BACKSCHEIDER | COMMUNITY PRESS STAFF WRITER GREEN TWP. -- More than a year of arguments and debate will be settled in six days. Green Township voters will head to the polls Tuesday, Nov. 7, to decide the fate of Issue 56 -- the referendum regarding the proposed Legacy Place lifestyle center. Click on link for article. http://news.communitypress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061101/NEWS01/611010771/1002/RSS01
November 9, 200618 yr All I have to say is...look what's already happening to the store-fronts around Fairfield. We continue to make mistakes we've already learned from *shakes head*
November 20, 200618 yr Most Legacy Place 'no' votes came from closest neighbors BY GREGORY KORTE | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER The closer Green Township voters lived to the proposed $100 million Legacy Place development, the less likely they were to approve a zoning change to allow it. Click on link for article. http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061120/NEWS01/611200380/1056/COL02
April 15, 200718 yr Group against Legacy Place forum is Wednesday April 15, 2007 | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER GREEN TWP. - Citizens for the Preservation of a Safe, Clean Green Township, the grass-roots group opposed to the proposed Legacy Place shopping center, presents a public forum, "What's in your watershed? Everything citizens need to know about streams," at 7 p.m. Wednesday in the Fellowship Hall of Pilgrim United Church of Christ, 4418 Bridgetown Road. Click on link for article.
April 22, 200718 yr Cheviot-Green Twp. deal to be discussed April 22, 2007 | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER GREEN TWP. - A Joint Economic Development Agreement is in the works between Green Township and Cheviot. Click on link for article.
May 7, 200718 yr Anti-Legacy Place group has stream-naming contest May 6, 2007 | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER GREEN TWP. - It's time to play "Name that Stream!" Citizens for the Preservation of a Safe Clean Green Township - the grass-roots group opposing the proposed Legacy Place shopping center - has come up with a contest to name the nameless 3.5-mile tributary whose headwater streams will be rerouted if the shopping center becomes a reality. Click on link for article.
May 7, 200718 yr I unfortunately live in Green Twp right now, and I would like if there was a little bit more retail that was readily accessible to the area, which could really be done in the abandoned facilities we already have. I just think its funny that Green Twp is so up in arms about this mall when half of it really looks like hell. Safe maybe, but clean and green? Not that I am supporting the horrible land use of the plan, but when did Green Twp officials start caring about poor land use?
May 7, 200718 yr Green Twp. officials have nothing to do with 'Citizens for the Preservation of a Safe Clean Green Township' group. The group actually held an anti-Green Twp stance using Legacy Place as their poster child so to speak. I personally would like to see the group mobilize to oppose the many crappy projects that are underway along Rybolt Rd and Harrison Ave! These projects are simply decimating the natural environment for absolute CRAP!!! Its not even like they're building on a farm....they're cutting into hills and destroying them, not to mention bulldozing creeks and other important wildlife. If they were building high-quality developments then I might turn the other should, but to see an entire hillside get bulldozed for the sake of some shitty big-box development or strip mall is pretty disgusting!
May 8, 200718 yr Yeah, sorry, I did a little bit more research on them after I wrote that. What you said was most of the reason for my fury, why on earth can a Kohls, and a Meijer, and plop-a-cardboard office be carved into the side of a hill, but they are making this stream thing seem all too strange. It looks like a terrible strip mining accident over there.
May 8, 200718 yr As if land use around Harrison/Rybolt wasn't already some of the worst in the whole region, Legacy Place would undoubtedly facilitate the expansion of sprawl farther west... Just what we need! Ugh.
May 8, 200718 yr I agree with you all about the Rybolt area. Why are they letting them build such crap down there when they are getting ready to overhaul the entire interstate interchange. I am still not clear what exactly is supposed to be happening with that. All I am hearing is that Rybolt will now exit onto Harrison via the Hearne Rd intersection already in place. What about the entrance to that hillside subdivision? I noticed yesterday they are putting another (what looks to be condo structure) right out on Rybolt. HOW MANY BUILDINGS CAN WE STICK ON THESE HILLS? Where is the Preservation of a Safe Clean Green Township' group on this one?????? Voters made clear in Nov they want Legacy. The cluster%$@# by the interstate is what the township is dropping the ball on. On a side note remember that Green Twp. is one of the few parts of Hamilton County that is sustaining its population. (Maybe even increasing it just a little). Growth and development is to be expected.
May 8, 200718 yr Regarding the interchange: The interchange project is a two phase project, planned to be finished by the end of 2008. Phase 1, which is occurring right now, is the relaignment of Rybolt Road. This road will be realigned to intersect Harrison where Hearne Road currently intersects, and Hearne will be realigned to intersect New Rybolt Road. The path of New Rybolt road will follow the path that has been recently cleared, and the new roadway will be a four lane facility. Traffic lights will be installed / reconfigured at New Rybolt & Old Rybolt and New Rybolt and Harrison Avenue. Additionally, a rather long right turn lane will be installed for southbound Harrison Avenue motorists wishing to turn right. This right turn lane should allow for a continuous right turn with caution. Phase 2 of the interchange project is everything south of New Rybolt Road. The off ramp from EB I-74 will be dramatically extended. Old Rybolt Road Between the offramp and Harrison will be restriped for One-Way traffic, and a second left turn lane will be striped. Additionally, I believe the right turn from the off ramp to Old Rybolt will be improved. The off ramp from WB I-74 is recommended to be widened to allow for a right turn and two left turn lanes. The left turn lane onto EB I-74 from SB Harrison will be extended under the bridge (yes, it will be a very tight fit). A right turn lane will be created for NB Harrison drivers turning onto EB I-74. Lastly, the On Ramp onto WB I-74 will be widened for two lanes, one of which will end after I believe 1000 feet. Hope that gives you an idea about what's happening in the next two years around Harrison and Rybolt. Currently the roadway equipment you see around the interchange is for the resurfacing project for I-74.
May 8, 200718 yr ^Thx for the clarification on this confusing project! And oakiehigh, I don't know if I could have described the development along Rybolt any better myself: Cluster%$&!
May 10, 200718 yr I agree with you all about the Rybolt area. Why are they letting them build such crap down there when they are getting ready to overhaul the entire interstate interchange. I am still not clear what exactly is supposed to be happening with that. All I am hearing is that Rybolt will now exit onto Harrison via the Hearne Rd intersection already in place. What about the entrance to that hillside subdivision? I noticed yesterday they are putting another (what looks to be condo structure) right out on Rybolt. Actually, it is a two story retail office complex. That doesn't mean retail will go into it---look across the street where Coldwell banker took up the whole strip center and uses it for offices. The condo complex is done. Now then if you drive way back on Ruwe's oak, you will see another condo complex and another housing subdivision being built that will make you squeemish.
May 10, 200718 yr ^It almost seems as if Coldwell Banker took that space just so that they could put up that hideous back-lit sign facing the highway. Oh and on the topic of condos...the complex just up the street has the large sign announcing 'Closeout Special: Only 12 Units Left'. I counted the meters on the side of one of the buildings (all look about same size) and there are only 12 units per building by these calculations! So that means roughly a 1 of those 3 condo buildings sits empty! Very nice.
May 10, 200718 yr Ruwe's Oak, while a completely different topic, is disgusting (No offense to the person who lives there). I can't believe that it, if it doesn't already, connects with Wesselman in Miami Township. Talk about a lot of houses. That's "progress" for you. At least residents will be less likely to complain about turning left in the AM peak once the relocation is finished. Too bad it likely will still be a bear turning left or right out of Ruwe's Oak during the PM peak. Unfortunately, Miami Township, and possibly Green Township north of 74 and West of Cheviot will be completely different 10 years down the world. Regarding Legacy Place, I'm still looking forward to see what Mr. Silverman views as nice through the eyes of a West Sider. I also hope he realizes that the affluent residents of the West Side, and they do exist, have no problem driving to Rookwood or Kenwood. If this project intends to capture some of those customers, then it probably should have some of the same stores, but for some reason I doubt it will. Instead, I believe that we'll see something horrible like Bridgewater Falls with lots of empty space several years after build and a huge traffic generator. Thank god for "progress".
October 17, 200717 yr Mall remains hot issue in Green Twp. BY CLIFF RADEL | CINCINNATI ENQUIRER October 16, 2007 GREEN TWP. – The race for Green Township trustee has turned into another referendum on Legacy Place. Click on link for article.
August 12, 200816 yr ^--- The project is being held up by the E.P.A and Army Corp. of Engineers over a permit to modify the natural stream. Whether you are for or against the project, you have to admit that it's not fair to hold up the project for this long just to make a yes or no decision. The decision is supposed to come soon. Whether the developer is still interested or not is another question.
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