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I think I see a re-occuring theme here...

 

Hey, I'm on the YP Kitchen Cabinet, Civic engagement committee, anybody have any suggestions?

 

^Light rail anyone.... :|

 

LIGHT RAIL

 

light rail please

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I think we have a better shot with streetcars anyway

What about the cancer thing?  I'd like that to stop.

 

Light rail and bring the guy from protransit in to meet with the mayor.  Every municipality has faced problems with getting it implemented but many have gotten around it.

So do you guys want light rail?

How in the hell do we not have some type of light rail?!

You know what would be nice, light rail.

You know what would be nice, light rail.

 

:]

Creative Young Professionals Are City's Hidden Asset

BILL PRICE | December 7, 2006

 

It's something every major city in the country wants more of: young professionals with good paying jobs.  There's word that Cincinnati may have a hidden "asset" that other cities don't have in attracting "creative young professionals."  And that same hidden asset may bring more young workers to the Tri-state.

 

Cincinnati has always been nationally known for huge companies like Procter and Gamble -- and all the advertising it does.  But did you know that several of the world's biggest brand design and marketing firms are also headquartered in downtown Cincinnati?  Now, they may be our ticket to a more prosperous city.

 

Read full article here:

http://wcpo.com/news/2006/local/12/07/young_profs.html

  • 3 months later...

What changes would effectively make living downtown affordable for more YPs?

April 6, 2007 | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER

 

A: Changes assuring that everything a YP needs to live and play are all within a five-minute walk or a 10-minute drive, including parking, supermarkets and restaurants, theaters and galleries, and other YPs living downtown.

-Christopher Deabler Associate Taft, Stettinius & Hollister

 

A: Lower prices! Economics reflects supply, equals lower cost. Who do downtown developers want to target? What is the city's plan to bring more amenities? An effective and efficient transportation system could make downtown living more affordable for YPs.

-Natalie Auzenne-Swan Fidelity Investments

 

A: Quite simply, we need a developer to focus on delivering a product in a lower price-point range. This is difficult with rehab projects, which have been the predominant deals that have taken place in the market. In order to have the economies of scale necessary, the project most likely needs to be new construction with a large number of units.

-Darin Vilano Leadership development program associate Western & Southern Financial Group

 

A: I would love to see more housing that is affordable to those in the nonprofit sector (under $150,000), as well as a store that offered fresh foods and household goods all in one place.

-Clara Rice Associate executive director Cincinnati Playhouse in the Park

 

Read full article here:

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/04/09/editorial4.html

YPs heat up Freedom Center

BY PAMELA FISHER | April 15, 2007

 

You couldn't help but move to the steamy salsa of Son del Caribe at the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center Young Professional party Thursday. Nearly 200 young professionals grooved and gathered around an ethnic array of dancers: Greek, Peruvian, meringue, salsa and hip-hop.

 

Emcee Michael Beck showed off some smooth salsa moves and then invited the crowd to hit the dance floor. Ballet tech cincinnati performed "Juke Jive" and other excerpts from "Made in America," which opens May 4 and 5 at the Aronoff; tickets are $22 by calling 621-2787.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070415/ENT/704150346/1025/LIFE

  • 4 weeks later...

The Mayor’s Young Professional Kitchen Cabinet has put together a short survey on downtown.  The results will be used to form recommendations to the Mayor, make decisions about future projects the YPKC may take up, and more.  Here is the information you'll need:

 

Who Should Take the Survey:  anyone with an interest in downtown

 

Why Should People Take the Survey:  the YPKC wants to know what residents, workers, and visitors want to see in downtown; their input will be used to make some upcoming, key decisions

 

How Long Will the Survey Be Available:  until Thursday, May 17 at noon

 

 

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=292353689370

I filled it out :] Hopefully a lot of people on the facebook group fill it out as well. The more ideas and input, the better.

  • 2 weeks later...

Arts events target local YPs

BY PAMELA FISHER | May 17, 2007

 

Determined to keep young professionals in Cincinnati and engaged in the arts and culture scene, Mayor Mark Mallory is rolling out a social and cultural monthly event called Arts Allies on Friday at May Festival.  Arts Allies is designed to connect “YPs” to Cincinnati arts events. The initiative is led by Mallory’s Young Professional Kitchen Cabinet, a group of 100 people serving on 10 committees and led by an executive board of 13.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070517/NEWS01/305170042

City's 'YPs' can have mixer with mayor

BY PAMELA FISHER | May 18, 2007

 

Determined to keep young professionals in Cincinnati and engaged in the arts and culture scene, Mayor Mark Mallory is rolling out a new social and cultural monthly event called Arts Allies today at May Festival.  Arts Allies is designed to connect "YPs" to Cincinnati arts events.

 

The initiative is spearheaded by Mallory's Young Professionals Kitchen Cabinet, a group of 100 people serving on 10 committees and led by an executive board of 13.  Sean Rhiney, a founder of Cincinnati's Midpoint Music Festival, chairs the entertainment committee that hatched the idea for Arts Allies.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070518/NEWS01/705180417/1056/COL02

  • 1 month later...

Arts events rally to keep YP's

BY PAMELA FISHER | [email protected]

 

This weekend it was the Contemporary Arts Center. Next month it will be the Cincinnati Opera.  A group of 70 twenty and thirtysomethings - all members of Greater Cincinnati's coveted "creative class" - gathered for brunch and a tour of the Contemporary Arts Center as part of Arts Allies, a program launched by the mayor's office to help keep young professionals in town by connecting them to the culture scene.

 

Mayor Mark Mallory says engaging the creative class is crucial to the city's economic development. "There's a need to highlight the arts and their power to transform neighborhoods and economies," Mallory has said.Several of those networking at Saturday's event agree.  "A strong urban core is essential to the success of our region," said economic development specialist Candace Klein, 26. She is president of the mayor's Kitchen Cabinet, a group of 100 young professionals advising the mayor on YP retention.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20070625/NEWS01/706250324/

 

A combination of quality companies, plus good starting salaries and affordable living, helped Cincinnati to an 18th-place ranking on Forbes magazine's recent "Best Cities for Young Professionals" list.  Forbes ranked 40 cities according to criteria such as: where graduates of elite universities locate; where a city's businesses rank on Forbes' "best big businesses" and best "small businesses" lists; which cities had the most young and single people; and starting salaries versus cost of living.

 

Read full article here:

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/06/25/daily44.html

If only being an academic urban historian counted as a young professional.

it doesn't?

  • 2 weeks later...

Census to gauge young professionals' interest in arts, entertainment

BY LAURA BAVERMAN | July 11, 2007

 

Members of the Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber's C-Change class have launched an online YP Census aimed at gauging the interest levels and behavior patterns of young professionals related to the arts and entertainment scene in Greater Cincinnati.

 

The group has found a lack of awareness and communication among "YPs" about offerings from groups like the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra, the Aronoff Center and the Playhouse in the Park. And these organizations do not have statistical data about young people in Greater Cincinnati.

 

Read full article here:

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/07/09/daily27.html

  • 1 month later...

Chamber plans to enliven area

BY STEPFANIE ROMINE | September 7, 2007

 

If Agenda 360 - Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber's new civic plan - delivers as promised, Southwest Ohio will be a hopping place to live, work and play by the year 2020.  The plan was unveiled Thursday at Duke Energy Center during Bold Fusion, the chamber's fourth annual young professionals summit. Agenda 360 aims to "transform Cincinnati USA by the year 2020 into a leading metropolitan region for talent, jobs and economic opportunity," said co-chair Kevin Ghassomian.

 

"Agenda 360 is all about creating a better future," said Chamber president Ellen van der Horst, "a more successful future, and who has more at stake in the future of this region than the young people who live, work and play here?"  More than 350 young professionals heard Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory, Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland and keynote speaker Carol Coletta, CEO of CEOs for Cities, speak of the region's potential.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070907/BIZ/709070343/1076

The combination of the words "live, work, and play" is driving me nuts.

 

That is all.

I've been reading a lot of "planning" but not much "doing" for the past 4 years

I've been reading a lot of "planning" but not much "doing" for the past 4 years

 

I would call the creation of Bold Fusion and the Mayor's YPKC both actions.  Progress is being made...slow and steady wins the race.

The combination of the words "live, work, and play" is driving me nuts.

 

That is all.

+1

The combination of the words "live, work, and play" is driving me nuts.

 

That is all.

 

Let's change it to "Birth, school, work, death".

"Rome",

 

Do I have to finish this statement?

Carol Coletta blogs about her visit to Cincinnati:

 

http://www.ceosforcities.org/conversations/blog/2007/09/good_things_are_happening_in_c.php

 

Cincinnati, where I spent the day, was a big surprise. It’s been years since I’ve been there, and the city has made a number of smart moves in the meantime. Most impressive were three initiatives:

(1) The remaking of Fountain Square. What used to be separated from its surroundings is now connected in very urban ways. ...

(2) The remaking of Over-the-Rhine,...  ...I expect this neighborhood to start drawing the attention of travel writers soon.

(3) Bold Fusion...

  • 2 months later...

These are some encouraging comments to hear...

 

Marketing plan regional

City leaders from Ohio, Ky. agree

BY MIKE RUTLEDGE | November 30, 2007

 

To capture promising young talent and lure growing businesses to the region, it's important that area towns and cities work together and send similar messages to prospective newcomers, Cincinnati City Manager Milton Dohoney Jr. told a Covington business audience Thursday.

 

"It is my belief that in order for us to grow, in order for us to attract talent, in order for us to have the right kind of synergy, this region has to be strong," Dohoney said. "And one of the means that helps to make it so stems from the relationship between the various jurisdictions and municipalities."

 

"So I'm an advocate for crossing jurisdictional lines, having communication with people that are in leadership in various cities and towns and villages," Dohoney said.  He and Covington City Manager Jay Fossett agreed on that and many points as they described the paths for growth that they see for their cities, particularly in the urban cores and along their shared Ohio riverfronts.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.nky.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20071130/NEWS0103/711300384

Boomer wealth may leave area

BY KEITH T. REED | November 30, 2007

 

Local baby boomers will soon leave billions to their kids, and a local foundation is worried those funds will follow a generation of young people out of Greater Cincinnati.  [glow=yellow,2,300]As much as $169 billion is expected to shift from parents and grandparents in Hamilton, Adams, Brown, Butler, Clermont and Warren counties to younger relatives by 2055, according to a recent study on wealth transfer by the Rural Policy Research Institute's Center for Rural Entrepreneurship.[/glow] That finding follows a national trend in which about $41 trillion is expected to change hands by 2052.

 

That may be good news for a slacker kid waiting to get his hands on mommy's fortune, but not necessarily for this region, which is losing more 25-to-34-year-olds - a group that stands to inherit much of that cash - than it gains.  "Philanthropy is very important, so if you see some of these monies flowing out, it certainly would be a concern, especially for a philanthropic organization," said George Vredeveld, director of the Economics Center for Education & Research at the University of Cincinnati. While the region's population is slowly growing, the migration of so many people in that age group is harmful because it can hurt philanthropic causes, and, more importantly, the area's work force, he said.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071130/BIZ01/711300357/1076/BIZ

  • 1 month later...

For chamber's Agenda 360, young leaders fill bench

Broader age group brings mix of energy, experience

BY LAURA BAVERMAN | January 4, 2008

 

Kevin Ghassomian doesn't believe that the world is flat. It's spiky, he says, and those spikes represent centers of talent, each of which are up for grabs in the global economy.  It's that competition for talent that drives young professionals to be involved in the Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber's regional action plan, called Agenda 360. The best way to attract people like them to Cincinnati is to have young professionals at the table with the city's established business and community leaders as they set strategy for the future.

 

"We are really serving as the bench," said Ghassomian, an attorney with Greenebaum, Doll & McDonald and co-chair of Agenda 360's leadership team. "We're providing fresh legs to a lot of folks in the community who have paid their dues."  Fresh legs and fresh ideas.

 

Agenda 360, through an 18-month planning process that ends in late 2008, aims to establish Greater Cincinnati as a leader for talent, jobs and economic opportunity by 2020. A key principle of the process is intergenerational leadership, modeled off the framework of Northern Kentucky's Vision 2015 process, completed in 2005.

 

Read full article here:

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/01/07/story7.html

Kitchen Cabinet gets YPs to the table

Mayor says group is crucial to improving quality of life

BY LUCY MAY | January 4, 2008

 

When Mark Mallory was campaigning to become Cincinnati's mayor in 2005, he took part in no fewer than 27 debates and community forums.  But none was as impressive as the debate at CET sponsored by Legacy, the young professional group based in Northern Kentucky.  "I felt like I was running for president of the United States," Mallory said.

 

Once elected, that experience helped convince Mallory that he needed to tap into the insights and energy of the region's young professionals. He created his Young Professionals Kitchen Cabinet advisory group in 2006.  More than a year after its formation, the YPKC has a list of accomplishments that includes spearheading an effort to improve attendance at arts and cultural events and creating an initiative to increase young professional participation in the city's community councils.

 

Read full article here:

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2008/01/07/story9.html

  • 4 weeks later...

Agenda 360: A 2020 vision

Ohio's effort modeled after N.Ky.'s regional plan

BY MIKE RUTLEDGE | January 31, 2008

 

Those organizing Southwest Ohio's Agenda 360 effort want to make Greater Cincinnati a better place to live by creating goals the region can rally around.  They are pegging their hopes on progress they have seen in places like Boston, Charlotte, N.C., and Northern Kentucky, which all have developed similar blueprints for regional improvement in recent years.

 

"We're looking to create a short list of shared priorities for the Cincinnati USA region that are action-oriented, have specific ownership for implementation, and are measurable over time to help us achieve our overarching mission," said Ellen van der Horst, president and CEO of the Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber.  The ultimate goal is "to transform Cincinnati USA by the year 2020 into a leading metropolitan region for talent, for jobs and for economic opportunity for all that call this region home," van der Horst added.

 

She and other organizers are working with officials and residents from Hamilton, Butler, Warren and Clermont counties to give the region a boost - making it so popular that young talent doesn't migrate to other regions seeking fun and fulfillment.  They're delving into ways to improve the region's economy, education systems, recreation offerings, inner cities and local governments. The goals will be used to lobby for money from Columbus and Washington.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080131/NEWS0103/801310369/1077/COL02

This is a great group and the efforts they are making to create a regional agenda and voice, is going to be great for the region.

I think they were trying to do a similar thing ten years ago or so when Cincy was going to start competing with the 'high flyers' (Charlotte). It disappeared in the city depression after the riots.

^

would that have been that Gallis or Gadis study?  They hired a consultant from North Carolina to come up with some sort of regional strategy

 

This new effort seems deeper, and I like how they are riffing on young/youth/creative class concepts. 

 

Dohoney, a Louisville native, noted his Kentucky roots while addressing the Covington Business Council. He played significant roles in the rebirth of Louisville's downtown as deputy mayor there, and later with downtown Lexington as chief administrative officer for the Lexington Fayette Urban County Government.

 

...the advantage of recruiting from outside:  lessons learned and fresh ideas.

 

 

 

getting these schools in shape is important in this effort

It was called the Gallis Report, something that was swiftly forgotten.  Charlotte is a joke compared to Boston in every regard with the exception of possibly being less corrupt (as a former resident of Boston I don't buy that 'the leadership in that community really spoke with a single voice' remark), I remember the opening wording of the Gallis Report described Cincinnati today (or rather 1999) as something like "the ghost of a great industrial city".  Charlotte has less of a traditional downtown than Hamilton, it's truly pathetic, and no other urban area in the metro.  However I saw the hype machine in action when someone from, you guessed it, Sydney, OH started gushing about how badly he wanted to move to Charlotte sight unseen.   

 

Northern Kentucky is just plain obnoxious, they seem to be entirely oblivious to having some of the best-preserved 19th century cities in the country, and instead of encouraging business development in those cities, indulge in a suburban fiesta that would have never happened without the airport.  Something that fell into their laps due mostly to chance.     

^ Charlotte and really most of NC has filled with folks fleeing from Western New York. While some of them were bailing on Rochester and Buffalo, more of them were leaving the tons of small towns that litter the frozen tundra up there. There weren't ever really city folk so suburban sprawl doesn't annoy them and the key is that it doesn't snow 6 months a year.

It was called the Gallis Report, something that was swiftly forgotten.  Charlotte is a joke compared to Boston in every regard with the exception of possibly being less corrupt (as a former resident of Boston I don't buy that 'the leadership in that community really spoke with a single voice' remark), I remember the opening wording of the Gallis Report described Cincinnati today (or rather 1999) as something like "the ghost of a great industrial city".  Charlotte has less of a traditional downtown than Hamilton, it's truly pathetic, and no other urban area in the metro.  However I saw the hype machine in action when someone from, you guessed it, Sydney, OH started gushing about how badly he wanted to move to Charlotte sight unseen.   

 

Northern Kentucky is just plain obnoxious, they seem to be entirely oblivious to having some of the best-preserved 19th century cities in the country, and instead of encouraging business development in those cities, indulge in a suburban fiesta that would have never happened without the airport.  Something that fell into their laps due mostly to chance.      

 

Joe Taxpayer of Cincinnati and Hamilton County didn't want an airport.

It was called the Gallis Report, something that was swiftly forgotten.  Charlotte is a joke compared to Boston in every regard with the exception of possibly being less corrupt (as a former resident of Boston I don't buy that 'the leadership in that community really spoke with a single voice' remark), I remember the opening wording of the Gallis Report described Cincinnati today (or rather 1999) as something like "the ghost of a great industrial city".

 

Yeah, Gallis said something to that effect.  I remember that report came out right before I got back to town from college.  I remember participating in some Hamilton County open citizen participation at Music Hall that was to work on getting a plan going for the county.  Also some guy named Myron Orfield had a region plan or set of recommendations, and then right before I left town again (in July 2003) there was some presentation by the worst chucklefuck of them all, whose name escapes me, at the Mercantile Library (which makes at least 4 consultants coming up with 4 different plans or sets of recommendations in the span of 4 years).  This guy basically advised the city to invest in Fountain Square and Findlay Market and Washington Park.  I think that 3CDC might have been the result of his recommendations, but at that presentation at the Mercantile I was livid.  I was pacing back and forth, drinking numerous plastic cups of complementary white wine, telling any stranger near me how ridiculous it was to pay some guy from out of town to tell us what was perfectly obvious to begin with.  I've never understood why exactly these types of consultants are needed, except maybe to convince donors or corporations to fund things like 3CDC, or maybe to give someone an excuse to have a wine and cheese partie at places like the Mercantile Library.

I've never understood why exactly these types of consultants are needed, except maybe to convince donors or corporations to fund things like 3CDC...

 

It's so that if things don't work out their isn't the political accountability.  They can simply use the out of town consultant or non-profit group as a scapegoat.

Wow..J... To say that Uptown Charlotte has less than Hamilton! is truely baised, and wrong. Probably the most idiotic thing I've ever read on this website to tell you the truth. Honestly, yes, Hamilton! is older but has done absolutely nothing (relative to the rest of the world, except for say...Flint) in the past 40 years. When was the last time you were in Charlotte. I'm here now...and there's 22 cranes in the air, and all incorporate pedestrian friendly design into their construction..You can't fault a city for not having history, but for what it started with (or didn't demolish in the 1960's (thanks to planners)) Charlotte is light years ahead of many cities with much of a head start...Unless you are comparing age (and age alone) of buildings, the statement holds no water...Oh wait, there's no crappy Elder Beerman in Uptown Charlotte...you win.

  • 1 year later...

Is a 'Nati buzz building?

Area's young-adult population rebounds

By David Holthaus • [email protected] • March 29, 2009

 

Hundreds of young professionals gathered last week to network and promote Cincinnati in a spirited cyberbuzz.  Hundreds more YPs are expected this fall when the national Next Leaders Summit convenes downtown.  Has the region turned hot for bright, young workers?

 

Business leaders are optimistic that a brain drain of talent may finally be slowing.  From 2005 to 2007, the number of young adults in the 15-county metropolitan area grew 4 percent, after dropping 13 percent in the previous 15 years. That's a two-year gain of 16,648 young men and women.  "We're beginning to slowly, but surely, grow back," says Ellen van der Horst, president and CEO of the Cincinnati USA Regional Chamber.

 

Read full article here:

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090329/BIZ01/903290311/1001/BIZ

 

I don't mean this as a pissing match, but it's true Columbus is more gentrified than any other city in Ohio. I don't think it's too gentrified right now, but I could see it heading in that direction. That's all I'm saying. Cincinnati's urban neighborhoods will always have more grit to them.

 

If they do, it will be because of urban policy. No one stopped Society Hill (and eventually bordering areas) from erasing its more immediate past (including its people) and putting its prestigious past in aspic. Walking through some areas of cities, it is hard to imagine that at one time it was diverse or that it even had poverty.

 

Someone said Seattle is light years ahead of Cincinnati right now. In the 70s, when Seattle bottomed out after the Boeing bust, there was a billboard up that said "Will the last person leaving Seattle please turn out the lights". That was 30 something years ago. Each age is a dream that is dying or one that is coming to birth  :jo:

Sean Rhiney saw that, too. He moved here from Louisville to attend Xavier University, then stayed for law school at the University of Cincinnati. Now, he runs the Center for Professional Development at UC's law school. Along the way, Rhiney co-founded Midpoint Music Festival, a two-day showcase of young bands from around the nation. It has grown from 20,000 club hoppers in 2001 to more than 40,000 last year.

 

Louisville has a strong scene orientation, so I can see Rhiney bring some of that to Cincy via Midpoint.

 

Its funny seeing Richard Florid mentioned. He came and spoke at Wright State, and then influenced people so much they hired him and his group as a consultant to generate some creative class stuff here.  Typical for Dayton the movers and shakers behind this (the ones selected to be "creative cataylsts" to work with Floridas' consultancy) missed the local music scene in Dayton, which does draw from & interrelate Cincy (the lead of one of the better alt bands here graduated from Finneytown High in Cincy). 

 

But they are doing, years later, some of what Cincy is, including a group for "young professionals" (they call them "young creatives" borrowing Florida's terminology.

 

 

 

 

^

I don't think people in Dayton "get that".

 

Which is part of the flaw in the theory they are working with, in that Flordias definition is so broad that it missess this nuance.

 

Cincinnati's new slogan should be: "All the job opportunities of Columbus with fewer yuppies. We've got a real river too." There is still (and hopefully will continue to be) industrial grit in Cincinnati. The feel of a big industrial city has not been lost. Columbus seems to be on track to becoming yuppie valhalla in Ohio

 

I think Pittsburgh is what you are talking about, a place that could be a model for the future for Cincy.  Based on my very limited travels Pittsburgh is probably farther down the road of sucessfull mix of grit and cool and a post-industrial economy outside of maybe Chicago. 

Pittsburgh a model for Cincinnati? I graduated from Pitt and my wife is from Pittsburgh, so I know a lot about the city. Pittsburgh has fared well compared to other industrial cities. However, I think Cincinnati has held its own. Cincinnati has added population over the last few years. Pittsburgh has consistently lost population over the last several decades. One of the ways we measure economic success and vibrancy is through population trends. I think Pittsburgh is cool, I just don't think Cincinnati needs to follow Pittsburgh. Cincinnati already has a lot of the things Pittsburgh has. Plus, Cincinnati has a growing metro population and a great corporate community.

It was a fun article by the Enquirer mostly for the fact that they had remember what it is like to be a booster, since they've mostly specialized in the end of times.

 

I think Cincy has plenty of Yuppies, but the different kind of retail hq's between Cincy and Cbus have a real effect. Macy's and Kroger are very adult, mature companies, whereas the Limited (and off-shoots) and Abercrombie are very posturing (and pre-yuppie or ysppie). I'd also throw in the cultural differences between UC and OSU. Cincinnati lacks the prominent private Protestant schools that ring Columbus as well. We drove those Presbyterians out of town with such force they ended up nearly in Cleveland.

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