got any good examples?

 

generally i'm all for saving facades, but i saw this example today and it kind of took the cake. it's the old queens family court building in jamaica, queens now being turned into retail/condo.  :roll:

 

to be honest that's only one picture.  We'd need to see it from more than on vantage point.  Anyway, I like it.

I LIKE IT!

A part of me thinks its a slap in the face to the rest of the structure that used to exist; another part of me realizes it's practical to expand--I guess it depends on the building. I actually think that building looks cool though.

Gross. Especially those one story additions at the base.

^---yea, it's catchy, but it could be done without the modern street level additions.

The ground floor additions bother me more than the big addition in the back. 

did they chop the back of the building off for the expansion? I don't really like it.

 

Of course, hodge-podge isn't anything new. The facade of the Basilica of Santa Maria Novella is also a mash-up of different time periods... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Maria_Novella

 

Here's a classic example in Cincinnati: the Albee Theater, constructed in 1927.

 

 

Here is the theater, as it was on Fifth Street across from Fountain Square, prior to being torn down in 1977:

 

 

 

The facade was dimantled and kept in storage for nearly 10 years. It was then incorporated into the Convention Center (3 blocks west of where it used to stand) when the CC was enlarged and remodeled in 1986. It's sad the theater is gone from its original locatioin, but I'd rather see the facade as part of a different building than completely gone.

 

(Picture from Allen's post in http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,7041.30.html)

 

No offense to Cincy because the city looks beautiful from everything I've seen, but that looks like they tacked an ancient triumphal arch to an office building built in 1980 in the suburbs.

No offense to Cincy because the city looks beautiful from everything I've seen, but that looks like they tacked an ancient triumphal arch to an office building built in 1980 in the suburbs.

 

In person I don't think that the Albee Theatre facade, on the convention center, looks bad at all...actually it seems to add an element that the building (and most convention centers) are missing.

The Albee Theater on Convention Center is a travesty.  If anything, they should've put it in Washington Park as a gateway to Music Hall.

That's pretty intersting about the old theatre facade on the convention center.  I did not know that.  It's too bad they didn't find a way to incorporate the old marquee or make a replica with the center's name on it.

I didn't know that either.    I don't mind it though, yea we have a little 80's era crap, but who doesn't?  They manage to save that somehow!

The Albee Theater on Convention Center is a travesty.  If anything, they should've put it in Washington Park as a gateway to Music Hall.

 

...like the arch in Washington Square in NYC?

 

There are are two facadectomys in Dayton, around the American/Convover building.  One was the Lafee building, which is now on the Main Street side.  Ironically, it used to be on the Third Street side, where there is yet another facade.

 

 

 

 

The Albee Theater on Convention Center is a travesty.  If anything, they should've put it in Washington Park as a gateway to Music Hall.

 

...like the arch in Washington Square in NYC?

 

 

Basically.

 

  I don't mind the mix of styles as much as the form of the building. The first photo shows a building that is not bad because it mixes old brick with new glass, but because it violates many other principles. For example, this building looks like two separate buildings. Does the glass building have it's own front door, or do you enter the door of the old facade? It is not obvious from the user's view.

The Albee Theater on Convention Center is a travesty.  If anything, they should've put it in Washington Park as a gateway to Music Hall.

 

...like the arch in Washington Square in NYC?

 

That is a pretty neat idea.

The Albee Theater on Convention Center is a travesty.  If anything, they should've put it in Washington Park as a gateway to Music Hall.

 

I agree. It looks so out of place at the convention center and given the bland glass behind it, it takes away from its merit. Also, I consider saving only a small portion of that church in Walnut Hills to be a disaster. I don't know if they plan to integrate the new funeral home building in with the steeple/tower they saved but I can't picture it looking right at all, if they do.

Another view:

 

 

As mentioned in the U of M dormitory/Ann Arbor Library discussion, one of the biggest problems with facadectomies from a preservation point of view is that on that day when they become commonplace and "acceptable," facadectomies will become a quick and easy fallback for developers who really just want to build a box.  This, in turn, will make it harder to promote and encourage preservation-sensitive projects.

why was the albee torn down in the first place?  A renovated fountain square?  Ugh, can you imagine though...how in the hell can people tear down a building like that...gggrrr

 

    ^---- Give them credit. At least they made the effort to save it.

 

 

why was the albee torn down in the first place?  A renovated fountain square?  Ugh, can you imagine though...how in the hell can people tear down a building like that...gggrrr

 

That's why we need people living downtown and making their voices heard. At the time when the Albee was torn down (1977), the population supporting preservation was most likely very small. I think the CPA (Cincinnati Preservation Association) had to fight pretty hard for the pieces of the Albee Arch to be even preserved. Kudos to them for doing that. 

The Albee was in the way of "Fountain Square South", what's now the Westin Hotel and the U.S. Bank building.  The Westin lobby is a helplessly Montreal-ish 80's utopic atrium, I remember when it was new how fresh and, well, utopic it felt but ever since the Jerry Springer Show pulled out back around 1991 it's been all downhill.  All of that 80's style seemed like victory in the 80's.  And starchitecture that feels like victory now is doomed to that same fate.     

And starchitecture that feels like victory now is doomed to that same fate.     

 

Thank you for saying that.

The next big push for Fountain Square needs to be the restoration of the streetscape along the Westin side. The hotel can stay but get rid of the atrium and build in front. They have an entrance off Vine already.

I think facades are a personal choice.  When I renovated I had to take off the entire back of the house, since there were foundation problems.  So the front of the house is traditional and the rear contemporary.

Another awful aspect of the Albee arch is that, while it terminates the vista at the north end of Plum, the street is one-way south.  That takes away from any dramatic effect it could've had, at least for those travelling by car.  Even for those walking north on Plum, the parking lot on the east side of the street ruins the effect.

 

In other words, FAIL.

They save facades here all the time; sometimes it is a triumphant success, other times it is just plain sad.  Two good examples in SF are the Citicorp building and the old Emporium building, which became a multi-stored shopping center.  Both facades were deemed historically significant by the landmarks commission, so the builders were given no choice.  Other attempts have been horrible.  It seems a better idea to just rebuild the interior space rather than attach some monstrosity, totally out of scale with the rest of the building, to it.

The old Albee Theatre arch is just about the worst example of "saving" a facade that I have seen.  It was so great a compliment to Fountain Square. I agree that it would have been better to move it into a park.  Maybe like the Union Station Arch in Columbus.

Columbus had some really great buildings that were pulled down in the 60s and there was discussion even then about saving the facades.  It didn't happen, and many of the former grand structures are now surface parking lots.  The biggest loss, IMHO, was the Peruna Building--terra cotta out the ying-yang, with great detailing and elegant lines. 

 

i was all over the place today --- i had the camera & kept this thread in mind, so here ya go w/ some fresh ny facade saves:

 

near my place is the porter house, which i think looks fantastic:

 

 

way downtown --- progress on this crazy...no make that insane...save

 

 

 

get a load of this --- still being used below ground as an active parking garage !!! :-o

 

 

 

 

zoom

 

the whole project is better seen here from the northside

 

last up is this sacrilege in the east village -- yeah, thanks a lot nyu  :whip:

 

 

 

 

 

zoom

 

 

I like the Porter House save too.  It looks so good it almost looks like it was built new that way.  I agree on the other 2 also.  What a waste saving the front of that parking garage.  That's the old stock exchange place, right?  And that church?  That looks ridiculous.  What's funny is you hear a facade will be saved and that's all cool, but then just like regular construction we're going to have to deal with ugly saves, bad saves, weird saves.  Maybe this is a trend that should cool down, well not really.  I guess we'll never eliminate bad architects from the world.

Jesus, Mary & Joseph and all the saints!!!!  That church front makes the Albee look like the Taj Mahal!  What a blasphemy.

Glad to see, though, that bad taste runs rampant everywhere! 

I really love that makeshift mural on the plywood wall.

The porter house project would be really cool without the roof trees.

 

I still agree that this shouldn't be considered preservation, however. Just a better alternative to complete demolition.

re your 1st remark i know what you are saying ink, but if you saw the whole neighborhood you would be glad there are some trees, or any trees, anywhere, even if they are up on a roof.

 

on a related tree/ohio note, my medina-born neighbor was personally responsible for getting trees planted along 14th street (bet 8th-9th aves) near the porter house. he also had a say in placing them along the street. pretty cool that yet another ohioan had noticeable influence like that in the big apple.

 

 

I really love that makeshift mural on the plywood wall.

 

yeah, i do too. they should "save" it and put it up as a mural in that crappy new nyu dorm tower behind the church facade.

 

*** i hope others put up some more facade save pics on this thread ****

here's another "save" i saw today. there are plans to revive the historic (1909 beaux-arts) battery maritime building. it's located downtown in manhattan next to the staten island ferry station. they want to add 40k sqft to the 140k sqft building and turn it into some kind of boutique hotel, etc, etc.. this rendering looks clean although rather jarring, but it could be ok:

 

 

more info here:

http://beta.therealdeal.com/articles/8825

 

 

 

I realize that I'm a little late to the party on this, but I hate how they incorporated the arch of the Albee into the convention center.  It would have been great if people could actually walk through it; see it, touch it, interact with it, but instead they set it to rest on top of a completely uninspired rectangular entrance, so it serves only as a showpiece of how great Cincinnati's architecture used to be.  It kind of reminds me of a moose head on the wall of someone's den, saying only "Hey, look what we tore down."

 

/edit:  I realize that the original arch was on top of a rectangular entrance as well, but it was tied in better with the rest of the building.  It looks like an afterthought in it's current position, like we didn't know what else to do with it.

here's one facade that just had to be saved -- and thankfully they did.  :clap:

it's by the riverwalk in downtown san antonio

 

jeez louise, look how fast this is going up around the old facade. this curbed blog pic is from yesterday  :-o

 

 

"The only thing slightly more ridiculous than the preservation of the flimsy façade of 211 Pearl Street (while its historic neighbors were obliterated) is what Rockrose Development Corp. plans on doing with it. A Curbed tipster dropped by the Financial District/Seaport area yesterday and snapped a couple pictures of the Pearl Street scene, and it looks like Rockrose isn't wasting any time in building that new behemoth. Of course, we're still waiting on renderings of the Lam Group's massive double hotel just down the block, what is sure to be another tranquil addition to what was once Manhattan's first World Trade Center. That'll be a fun one, for sure."

 

http://curbed.com/archives/2008/02/12/construction_watch_rockrose_builds_on_pearl_streets_history.php#reader_comments

 

another article about it in the newyorker magazine:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/01/07/080107fa_fact_bilger

 

 

 

^ Is that facade going to be functional at all?  It looks like the cement layer of the third floor is lined up to go directly past the middle of the 2nd row of windows.  I'd sort of assumed that the windows would still be indicative of floor numbers and ceiling heighths.

Lakewood City Schools did a nice job when they saved the facade of Garfield Elementary (pictured here still under construction last winter).  That's the old facade on the left and the all new portion of the building on the right.  The school was over 100 years old and Lakewood needed to modernize the buildings for numerous reasons.  They could have demolished the whole thing, but the facade was saved and the rest of the building attempts to mimic the style of the original.

^ wow, you can't even tell. i guess i am liking the facade saves like that that remain carefully integrated or the classy & aesthetically pleasing saves like the porter house.

 

the other saves not so much....and i am surprized at how many are absolutlely horrible.

 

^ Is that facade going to be functional at all?  It looks like the cement layer of the third floor is lined up to go directly past the middle of the 2nd row of windows.  I'd sort of assumed that the windows would still be indicative of floor numbers and ceiling heighths.

 

i don't think so, but i am not sure. it sure does not look like it. i noticed some of the blog commentary was ripping on that as well.

 

i'm surprized at how fast it's going up.

 

 

get a load of this --- still being used below ground as an active parking garage !!! :-o

 

  

 

 

^WOW!  A facade save and an operating parking garage.  You new yorkers are crazy.  Seriously though, that is extremely cool.

 

 

The best Columbus example I could find was a facade saved as part of a seven-story Hampton Inn Hotel.  It was built across the street from the Columbus Convention Center and located within a local historic district.  Part of the site was vacant ground and part of the site had three 3-4 story brick buildings on it.  The brick buildings had been vacant for many years and were in very poor condition.  However, as a condition for the historic district's approval, the hotel had to submit a design that incorporated the three brick buildings in the new design. 

 

Here's a rendering of that design.  The facades to be saved are to the right.

 

 

This is the hotel under construction.  To the right of the new construction is where the brick buildings used to be on the site.  The window patterns are slightly different than the rest of the building.

 

 

Here is the same view after construction was finished.  To the right, the brick facades have been reinstalled.  Everything else is new construction and new materials.

 

 

This is the finshed hotel from a different angle.  Better view of the saved brick facades at the near corner.  The saved facades are the fronts facing High Street from the second floor to the fourth floor.  Apparently, to do this, the contractor needed to catalog every brick they were going to reinstall.  The contractor numbered and carefully removed these bricks and then stored them until they were reinstalled.

that's pretty cool rider, but a mixed bag. the "back" corner with the old facades is great, i like it a lot, but the new "front" rounded hotel corner entrance looks like it was leftover from some suburban lifestyle mall.

^I know what you mean.  I think its the green "fake patina copper" roof that pushes the round corner to an Easton-style feeling.  The rest of the hotel is pretty darn good, though.  Especially for a Hampton Inn!

 

One neat thing about the round corner is that it is pushed a foot or two into the sidewalk right-of-way.  Because of this, it stands a little bit forward of every other building in the area, becoming a visual landmark when looking north on High Street for at least three blocks.