Probably less workers because the size of the project is apparently smaller

1 hour ago, KJP said:

Probably less workers because the size of the project is apparently smaller

Do you have an idea of what project this is or when this announcement could be made?

2 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Do you have an idea of what project this is or when this announcement could be made?

 

Unfortunately I do not.

 

Ryan passes away unexpectedly
By Ken Prendergast / October 10, 2024

 

As family, friends and business associates gather to remember Erin E. Ryan of Fairview Park at her funeral this weekend, many of them are struggling with the loss of someone so full of life and still too young to have left this earth so soon. Erin passed away Oct. 6 from a suspected heart attack, according to two associates of hers. She was only 59.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/10/10/ryan-passes-away-unexpectedly/

 

 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

Ryan passes away unexpectedly
By Ken Prendergast / October 10, 2024

 

As family, friends and business associates gather to remember Erin E. Ryan of Fairview Park at her funeral this weekend, many of them are struggling with the loss of someone so full of life and still too young to have left this earth so soon. Erin passed away Oct. 6 from a suspected heart attack, according to two associates of hers. She was only 59.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/10/10/ryan-passes-away-unexpectedly/

 

 

Condolences @KJP

https://www.bls.gov/regions/midwest/oh_cleveland_msa.htm

 

September BLS numbers look pretty good. New all-time peak in the Eds/Meds category.

 

Overall numbers are approaching the 2019 pre-covid peak. At this rate, God willing, we'll finally hit a new peak next summer.

welp fyi my spouse’s company fired a bunch of people for not returning to the office properly. it doesnt affect her, she doesnt have to go in, although she does sometimes when she wants to, but most of the various agencies they own have to be in 3/days week. they have an agency office in cleveland.

As a guy who favors work from office l have to say l'm glad to see companies asking people to report back to the office - or suffer the consequences. Of course l realize some form of WFH is here to stay, l just want to see it minimalized.

I just did a short article for Cleveland Magazine about the status of office work and, yes, it looks like more employers want more people in the office more often. As one man said, WFH increasingly means getting promoted less, fired more and paid less.

^ l'll take it.

Busy times for M&A activity.  In recent weeks the following deals closed.  Cleveland-Cliffs completed its acquisition of Steel Company of Canada (Stelco) adding $3 billion to its annual volume. CBIZ completed its acquisition of Marcum, a NY accounting firm with $1.3 billion annual volume. MAI completed its fifth acquisition of 2024, rolling up Harbor Wealth Management of Denver. TransStar acquired three automotive parts distributors in Texas, California, and Pittsburgh. In a smaller deal, RPM (once Republic Powdered Metals) acquired a French producer of outdoor design and landscape products. TransDigm acquired a privately held maker of electronics parts and components for $1.4 billion. Lastly, Blue Point's Sylvan Holdings acquired Anchor Conveyor Products of Michigan.

Apparently, despite interest rates, there is an appetite for M&A money.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2024/11/01/cleveland-cliffs-tops-m-and-a-deals-this-week.html

https://www.crainscleveland.com/banking-finance/cbiz-inc-completes-23-billion-marcum-deal

https://www.crainscleveland.com/ban...l-acquires-colorados-harbor-wealth-management

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2024/06/07/society-brands-acquires-vitaliy-now.html

On 11/2/2024 at 1:38 PM, Dougal said:

Busy times for M&A activity.  In recent weeks the following deals closed.  Cleveland-Cliffs completed its acquisition of Steel Company of Canada (Stelco) adding $3 billion to its annual volume. CBIZ completed its acquisition of Marcum, a NY accounting firm with $1.3 billion annual volume. MAI completed its fifth acquisition of 2024, rolling up Harbor Wealth Management of Denver. TransStar acquired three automotive parts distributors in Texas, California, and Pittsburgh. In a smaller deal, RPM (once Republic Powdered Metals) acquired a French producer of outdoor design and landscape products. TransDigm acquired a privately held maker of electronics parts and components for $1.4 billion. Lastly, Blue Point's Sylvan Holdings acquired Anchor Conveyor Products of Michigan.

Apparently, despite interest rates, there is an appetite for M&A money.

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2024/11/01/cleveland-cliffs-tops-m-and-a-deals-this-week.html

https://www.crainscleveland.com/banking-finance/cbiz-inc-completes-23-billion-marcum-deal

https://www.crainscleveland.com/ban...l-acquires-colorados-harbor-wealth-management

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2024/06/07/society-brands-acquires-vitaliy-now.html

Any idea if this will bring jobs?

57 minutes ago, JB said:

Any idea if this will bring jobs?

It's hard to say. Cliffs likes to do work at the Cleveland headquarters; TransDigm does not.  In each case there will probably be some local increase, but not a huge number.  The largest increases will likely be in finance/accounting, planning, and legal.

 

Still, it means more management positions in the area.  These higher-paid folks who spend more and pay more taxes are not bad to have around.

4 hours ago, Dougal said:

It's hard to say. Cliffs likes to do work at the Cleveland headquarters; TransDigm does not.  In each case there will probably be some local increase, but not a huge number.  The largest increases will likely be in finance/accounting, planning, and legal.

 

Still, it means more management positions in the area.  These higher-paid folks who spend more and pay more taxes are not bad to have around.

Maybe we will have a future Cliffs HQ news if Biden does block the Nippon takeover of US Steel in December as he has threatened. Nippon just revised their submission so they must be worried.  It sounds like Cleveland-Cliffs’ CEO Lourenco Goncalves will then snatch it up as promised especially since the Canadian Stelco closed so quickly.

13 hours ago, Willo said:

Maybe we will have a future Cliffs HQ news if Biden does block the Nippon takeover of US Steel in December as he has threatened. Nippon just revised their submission so they must be worried.  It sounds like Cleveland-Cliffs’ CEO Lourenco Goncalves will then snatch it up as promised especially since the Canadian Stelco closed so quickly.

 

Are they still in a position to do so after acquiring Stelco, though?  There was some uncertainty about whether or not this is the case.

 

Trump and Harris have each also stated an intent to block it.

Selfishly, as a Clevelander, I would have loved for Cliffs to purchase US Steel fair and square.

 

But, the efforts of our politicians to block Nippon from purchasing US Steel is protectionist garbage framed as a national security concern.

 

Nobody would would even care if US Steel was called "Johnny's Steel Co." and Nippon was called "Pacific Steel Co."

 

Japan has been one of the US's closest allies for decades. Nippon Steel is the most innovative steel company in the world. It is objectively better for the both the market prices and the workers of the US Steel that Nippon is allowed to proceed with the acquisition. 

 

Protectionist interventions like this are inherently inflationary.

A lack of protectionist interventions is among the main reasons why the US working class collapsed from deindustrialization and today's white collar jobs are getting hammered by offshoring.

 

Politics can change alliances overnight, the need for steel does not. It needs to remain a US company.

9 minutes ago, Zagapi said:

Selfishly, as a Clevelander, I would have loved for Cliffs to purchase US Steel fair and square.

 

But, the efforts of our politicians to block Nippon from purchasing US Steel is protectionist garbage framed as a national security concern.

 

Nobody would would even care if US Steel was called "Johnny's Steel Co." and Nippon was called "Pacific Steel Co."

 

Japan has been one of the US's closest allies for decades. Nippon Steel is the most innovative steel company in the world. It is objectively better for the both the market prices and the workers of the US Steel that Nippon is allowed to proceed with the acquisition. 

 

Protectionist interventions like this are inherently inflationary.

 

I don't think this is an unfair critique... but imagine it was Intel... would you feel the same? 

2 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

I don't think this is an unfair critique... but imagine it was Intel... would you feel the same? 

 

Yes.

4 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

I don't think this is an unfair critique... but imagine it was Intel... would you feel the same? 

 

Fair point.   I don't know.   Both are critical to national security and we should have SOME of each inside the US.

 

A steel mill is a unique structure.  You can build a new steel mill in Japan, but you can't pack up a US steel mill and move it to Mexico.  And you don't want a blast furnace to shut down, ever, because it's really really expensive to restart.  The only concern I would have with a foreign owner is that they close the mill in the US without building a replacement here. Heavy stuff like steel (and its raw materials) is relatively easier to move by boat than truck, but neither boats nor freight rail are very fast. Maybe that is an incentive to keep steel production in the US.  (But higher labor costs in the US have certainly provided some advantage to China.)

 

As we are seeing in Columbus, a circuits fab requires a high quality construction and expensive, sensitive equipment inside -- but could you build a similar structure in Mexico and move the equipment?  Also, in contrast to steel you can load a ton of chips onto a plane and ship them overnight.  Here, I think there is more concern with a foreign owner "sneaking" something into the chip design (particularly for military or "secure" communications applications) -- something that is not a concern with steel production.

8 minutes ago, TBideon said:

A lack of protectionist interventions is among the main reasons why the US working class collapsed from deindustrialization and today's white collar jobs are getting hammered by offshoring.

 

Politics can change alliances overnight, the need for steel does not. It needs to remain a US company.

 

Industry demand will always change and the market will adapt. There are winners and losers, but ultimately, net positive amount of winners which is has steadily increased as time goes by.

 

Do the global poor not deserve the opportunity to industrialize and improve their economy and quality of life, like we did? Why not? Because they aren't Americans?

 

I suppose if you view economics as a zero-sum game, then yeah sure, we should attempt to have no imports and only exports and hoard as many resources as possible and continue to prop up our goods producing industries. But that's just mercantilism. It leads to imperialism/colonialism and has far more losers than winners. See the Scramble for Africa.

 

There is not a limited amount of wealth in the world. This type of thinking just stokes the flames of war between classes and nations alike.

 

Abstract economic theory and philosophy are fine, but at the end of the day, America's working and middle class have been decimated for 50 years in parallel to India and China counterparts' rises.

 

Walmart replacing GM, both literal and metaphor, has been a disaster on every level here.

 

And yes, I care about the US more than other countries in as much as they care about themselves more than us. Community tribalism has been a reality and necessity since we left the sea; otherwise, we'd all be dead or speaking German today.

 

Anduril (tech defense co.) looking at Ohio and two other states for manufacturing plant..  I hope NEO is in the running for this.... I would think other than the obvious manufacturing base... nasa, the Ohio aerospace institute, lake Erie, and a growing aerospace industry are positives...   supposedly (IDK), (and not thinking about the browns) brookpark and a former US steel plant land in Lorain would be sufficient...

 

Quote

Anduril Industries is planning to establish a new manufacturing facility, named Arsenal-1, to significantly scale up the production of autonomous military systems. The facility is expected to encompass over 5 million square feet and employ thousands of individuals. While the exact location has not been finalized, Anduril is considering sites within the United States, including potential locations in Arizona, Texas, or Ohio.

Arsenal-1 aims to produce tens of thousands of autonomous systems annually, leveraging modern manufacturing techniques and software-defined production processes. This initiative is part of Anduril's broader strategy to enhance defense manufacturing capabilities and meet growing demand for advanced military technologies. chat GPT

 

https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/04/anduril-is-considering-arizona-ohio-or-texas-for-its-massive-manufacturing-facility-source-says/

Edited November 4, 2024Nov 4 by lockdog

1 hour ago, lockdog said:

Anduril (tech defense co.) looking at Ohio and two other states for manufacturing plant..  I hope NEO is in the running for this.... I would think other than the obvious manufacturing base... nasa, the Ohio aerospace institute, lake Erie, and a growing aerospace industry are positives...   supposedly (IDK), (and not thinking about the browns) brookpark and a former US steel plant land in Lorain would be sufficient...

 

 

https://techcrunch.com/2024/11/04/anduril-is-considering-arizona-ohio-or-texas-for-its-massive-manufacturing-facility-source-says/

Tech manufacturing? Columbus is killing us right now. With my glass half empty Clevelander view, I'd fully expect DeWine to do everything he can to bring it to Ohio........Columbus, Ohio. 

17 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Tech manufacturing? Columbus is killing us right now. With my glass half empty Clevelander view, I'd fully expect DeWine to do everything he can to bring it to Ohio........Columbus, Ohio. 

Governor DeWine: Looky here…great spot next to CLE and NASA (more suitable use than dome stadium and humongous parking lot) https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/18300-Snow-Rd-Brook-Park-OH/14119072/

 

5,000,000 sqft would amount to a huge amount of land being needed.  This isn't going anywhere close to the inner core of the region, save for if the County is willing to say forget the Browns and put this at the airport instead.  Even the site of the proposed move for the Browns wouldn't have enough acreage for that amount of construction and parking.  We'd be looking at land on the fringes of the region in order to compete, and I believe local leadership learned a lesson from Columbus and their ability to have that amount of land ready for potential development in order to draw Intel.  It came down to us not having (or being ready to have) that amount of land at our disposal as a region.  

 

If they're looking at Ohio, there are already sites which have been chosen.  Hopefully, leadership here will be able to snag this for a win.

What about all of the empty land where factories used to be?

6 minutes ago, JB said:

What about all of the empty land where factories used to be?

There is plenty of that in Cleveland, but would likely require environmental remediation.   

27 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

There is plenty of that in Cleveland, but would likely require environmental remediation.   

Wish the city was more proactive on this issue in the past. 

Maybe Team NEO is in discussions with them and providing options of ready sites.

1 hour ago, JB said:

Wish the city was more proactive on this issue in the past. 

 

They expected to make former property owners (regardless of whether or not they had anything to do with the contamination) pay.   Or the feds.

 

While residential sprawl had many causes, industrial sprawl is mainly the result of CERCLA.

2 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said:

5,000,000 sqft would amount to a huge amount of land being needed.  This isn't going anywhere close to the inner core of the region, save for if the County is willing to say forget the Browns and put this at the airport instead.  Even the site of the proposed move for the Browns wouldn't have enough acreage for that amount of construction and parking.  We'd be looking at land on the fringes of the region in order to compete, and I believe local leadership learned a lesson from Columbus and their ability to have that amount of land ready for potential development in order to draw Intel.  It came down to us not having (or being ready to have) that amount of land at our disposal as a region.  

 

If they're looking at Ohio, there are already sites which have been chosen.  Hopefully, leadership here will be able to snag this for a win.

 

Ravenna Arsenal might be ideal.

Would be incredible to land this. Realistically, the best locations would be close to NASA Glenn or close to Wright Patterson. 5 million square feet is over 100 acres. I'm assuming that's just the building, not including parking etc. I would question whether there's a suitable site anywhere in Cuyahoga County. Medina or Lorain would be more likely.

Streetsboro has 108 acres for sale though it'll need rezoning for commercial.

 

Might be the most realistic parcel.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2024Nov 5 by TBideon

In a recent speech, Jon Husted mentioned that there is a datacenter looking at moving to NE Ohio because there's the existing power generation capacity in place. He said the site they're looking at locating to has a 1 million square foot brand new building on it, and the datacenter company is considering just razing the brand new building and putting their datacenter in there because their need is so immediate.

 

Anyone have an idea who or where this is?

12 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

In a recent speech, Jon Husted mentioned that there is a datacenter looking at moving to NE Ohio because there's the existing power generation capacity in place. He said the site they're looking at locating to has a 1 million square foot brand new building on it, and the datacenter company is considering just razing the brand new building and putting their datacenter in there because their need is so immediate.

 

Anyone have an idea who or where this is?

 

Could be one of the "Forward Innovation Center" sites.  Probably not Brook Park for obvious reasons, but maybe the former Ford Plant in Walton Hills.  It looks like they recently completed a building there.

 

https://forwardinnovationcenter.com/available-spaces/east-property-1/

Edited November 7, 2024Nov 7 by acd

9 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

In a recent speech, Jon Husted mentioned that there is a datacenter looking at moving to NE Ohio because there's the existing power generation capacity in place. He said the site they're looking at locating to has a 1 million square foot brand new building on it, and the datacenter company is considering just razing the brand new building and putting their datacenter in there because their need is so immediate.

 

Anyone have an idea who or where this is?

Not sure if they're related but I once heard a rumor that the Geis Building off 480 just east of the airport was going to be a data center in the near future. https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4204513,-81.7864293,3a,75y,349.67h,88.2t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sOpCc3Mf7ys_TIQifCP4nLw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D1.795767927572939%26panoid%3DOpCc3Mf7ys_TIQifCP4nLw%26yaw%3D349.67038831735545!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

23 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Not sure if they're related but I once heard a rumor that the Geis Building off 480 just east of the airport was going to be a data center in the near future. https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4204513,-81.7864293,3a,75y,349.67h,88.2t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sOpCc3Mf7ys_TIQifCP4nLw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D1.795767927572939%26panoid%3DOpCc3Mf7ys_TIQifCP4nLw%26yaw%3D349.67038831735545!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

 

That property transferred via a fiduciary deed in June. 

49 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

In a recent speech, Jon Husted mentioned that there is a datacenter looking at moving to NE Ohio because there's the existing power generation capacity in place. He said the site they're looking at locating to has a 1 million square foot brand new building on it, and the datacenter company is considering just razing the brand new building and putting their datacenter in there because their need is so immediate.

 

Anyone have an idea who or where this is?

Yea, I think that is the only brand new 1 million SF building in NE Ohio.  Unless they're buying the SW HQ, lol.

I've wondered if data centers would cluster around the great lakes to utilize the lake water for cooling which I think is a big expense for them (although I'm honestly talking out of my butt).  Doesn't Toronto do something like that?

20 hours ago, acd said:

 

Could be one of the "Forward Innovation Center" sites.  Probably not Brook Park for obvious reasons, but maybe the former Ford Plant in Walton Hills.  It looks like they recently completed a building there.

 

https://forwardinnovationcenter.com/available-spaces/east-property-1/

 

Walton Hills is a quarter million square feet.

10 minutes ago, Jax said:

I've wondered if data centers would cluster around the great lakes to utilize the lake water for cooling which I think is a big expense for them (although I'm honestly talking out of my butt).  Doesn't Toronto do something like that?

 

That would make sense, and nuclear power plants have similar cooling needs.   Nuclear, hydropower, or combustion are the only ways to meet data center power needs especially if they are messing with AI.

1 hour ago, Jax said:

I've wondered if data centers would cluster around the great lakes to utilize the lake water for cooling which I think is a big expense for them (although I'm honestly talking out of my butt).  Doesn't Toronto do something like that?

Realistically...data centers are going to be everywhere. No region of the country can support it all. The entire country's power generation capacity probably can't support what's coming.

 

This might not be a popular sentiment on this forum, but the single best thing we can do as a region right now is probably invest in big new nuclear projects, and the second best thing we can do is invest in natural gas. 

On 11/7/2024 at 11:41 AM, YABO713 said:

Not sure if they're related but I once heard a rumor that the Geis Building off 480 just east of the airport was going to be a data center in the near future. https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4204513,-81.7864293,3a,75y,349.67h,88.2t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sOpCc3Mf7ys_TIQifCP4nLw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D1.795767927572939%26panoid%3DOpCc3Mf7ys_TIQifCP4nLw%26yaw%3D349.67038831735545!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAyOS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

This building is full. There is no room for a data center in there. 

"Check out that former Meigs site on your next visit to the Windy City. Northerly Island offers pristine views nestled against Millenium Park, a world-class recreational, arts and civic mecca on Chicago’s lakefront."

 

Clearly that guy has never been to Northerly Island.

 

That aside, why on earth would Cleveland bulldoze Burke? Where is the proven demand? What tenants and investment are there? How would it be financed? How many billions (tens of billions?) of dollars are we talking?

 

All those issues should be addressed in detail before continuing the fantasy. Yet another Medical Mart if-you-build-it-they-will-come-for-some-reason fiction does not help the region.

 

 

Edited November 8, 2024Nov 8 by TBideon

52 minutes ago, TBideon said:

"Check out that former Meigs site on your next visit to the Windy City. Northerly Island offers pristine views nestled against Millenium Park, a world-class recreational, arts and civic mecca on Chicago’s lakefront."

 

Clearly that guy has never been to Northerly Island.

 

That aside, why on earth would Cleveland bulldoze Burke? Where is the proven demand? What tenants and investment are there? How would it be financed? How many billions (tens of billions?) of dollars are we talking?

 

All those issues should be addressed in detail before continuing the fantasy. Yet another Medical Mart if-you-build-it-they-will-come-for-some-reason fiction does not help the region.

 

 

 

At least Daley wasn't able to name it after his family, as was the original point all along.

 

With the only container port on the lakes, the railroad, and the freeway right there, there has to be a way to capitalize on an airfield being in immediate proximity.

3 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

At least Daley wasn't able to name it after his family, as was the original point all along.

 

With the only container port on the lakes, the railroad, and the freeway right there, there has to be a way to capitalize on an airfield being in immediate proximity.

Chicago's Daley and Rahm were visionaries in their ongoing world-class lakefront development. https://uapost.us/en/news/northerly-island-park-opens-friday-on-chicago-lakefront/

 

Cleveland has one last current chance to reposition its image for the Gen Zs, climate change refugees and newcomers and we better do it quick.  A 400-acre nature preserve (with or without a dome/economic developmet on the western edge) will help and be readily inclusive, equitable and relatively low cost to develop the footprint and then let nature and all citizens take over (Hello Bibb/Ronayne and James Corner Field Operations: https://www.newyork-architects.com/en/james-corner-field-operations-new-york/projects).

 

Build it and they will come C-bus version:  Before Daley/Rahm who can forget the visionary Columbus Mayor Buck Rinehart who famously manned the bulldozer in the middle of the night to knock holes in the national landmark Ohio Penitentiary in Columbus to stop cold the then nascent historical preservation efforts.  Without it Columbus would not have the amazing professional hockey, soccer, MLB stadiums and thriving downtown-adjacent neighborhood developments.  Cleveland slept while Columbus planned for 50+ years (shout out to even earlier C-bus visionary Mayor then Guv Rhodes who tied water access to annexation).

 

Cleveland we are on the clock...

On 11/8/2024 at 6:45 PM, Willo said:

Chicago's Daley and Rahm were visionaries in their ongoing world-class lakefront development. https://uapost.us/en/news/northerly-island-park-opens-friday-on-chicago-lakefront/

 

Cleveland has one last current chance to reposition its image for the Gen Zs, climate change refugees and newcomers and we better do it quick.  A 400-acre nature preserve (with or without a dome/economic developmet on the western edge) will help and be readily inclusive, equitable and relatively low cost to develop the footprint and then let nature and all citizens take over (Hello Bibb/Ronayne and James Corner Field Operations: https://www.newyork-architects.com/en/james-corner-field-operations-new-york/projects).

 

Build it and they will come C-bus version:  Before Daley/Rahm who can forget the visionary Columbus Mayor Buck Rinehart who famously manned the bulldozer in the middle of the night to knock holes in the national landmark Ohio Penitentiary in Columbus to stop cold the then nascent historical preservation efforts.  Without it Columbus would not have the amazing professional hockey, soccer, MLB stadiums and thriving downtown-adjacent neighborhood developments.  Cleveland slept while Columbus planned for 50+ years (shout out to even earlier C-bus visionary Mayor then Guv Rhodes who tied water access to annexation).

 

Cleveland we are on the clock...

 

One more reason to hate Rhodes, as if we didn't have enough already.

 

It looks like we're justifying and even glorifying politicians who destructively bypass the legally established processes here.

4 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

One more reason to hate Rhodes, as if we didn't have enough already.

 

It looks like we're justifying and even glorifying politicians who destructively bypass the legally established processes here.

Democracy is messy as we have been told this week but look at the results in Columbus and Chicage vs here...In hindsight we should not have laughed at Jim Rhodes when he ventured into Northeast Ohio just before the elections pitching us a Bridge to Canada.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/1966/04/24/archives/cleveland-gov-rhodes-pushes-idea-of-lake-erie-bridge.html

 

I doubt Cleveland has enough economic "oomph" to develop the river and the downtown lakefront at once. Personally I think Bedrock's plans for the river are far superior to anything proposed for the lakefront.  Bottom line, I'd say do one, namely the river, and do it right.