4 minutes ago, Zagapi said:

 

What leaders are infighting over the Browns? Bibb, Ronayne, and Council all seem to be on the same side against Haslam.

 

The distraction is Haslam being a bad actor.

What I fear may happen is the Haslams will get tired of all this and move the team to another place that wants an NFL team.

2 minutes ago, DHubb said:

What I fear may happen is the Haslams will get tired of all this and move the team to another place that wants an NFL team.

 

Again, they would be the bad actor and the elected leaders aren't infighting.

 

If Haslam moves the team to another market over this little ego trip of his, I'll clear my schedule and help him pack.

Edited January 16Jan 16 by Zagapi
typo

39 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

We need to focus on shared prosperity, not on jealousy. For a long time the three Cs have been equally large and economically important metros. But it seems extraordinarily likely that within a decade or two Columbus will stand out as the largest and most economically significant of the three. That's just the way it is. And it's going to benefit Cleveland and Cincinnati, not harm them. Both legacy cities will get a bunch of spinoff and support business, which will enrich them. They will also continue to be more important cultural centers than Columbus, will have their own industries in which they shine above and beyond Columbus, and they will both probably be more affordable as Columbus eventually becomes actually expensive, not just midwest expensive.

 

See, even in the best intentions, this type of post is the reason why we generally don't allow 3C city vs. city stuff.  It starts off positive ("Aww, this is going to be a good post, ColDay!"), then goes down the inevitable tear-down of non-factual information.  Sometimes, I think folks really don't see what they say before they say it.

 

Coming into this thread, I'd thought I'd be reading about a new business development in Cleveland but, again, it turns into something that...Columbus has got.  I'm fine if you want to discuss what Cleveland can do or what should've done to get _*Insert Business Here*_ but when it gets to the point of predictable, subtle bashing of the other 2Cs (or anywhere in Ohio), I'm not here to play anymore. I've allowed it for years but this is 2025.  Not anymore.

 

Please keep this thread about Cleveland, thanks. Last warning, thanks.

5 minutes ago, ColDayMan said:

 

See, even in the best intentions, this type of post is the reason why we generally don't allow 3C city vs. city stuff.  It starts off positive ("Aww, this is going to be a good post, ColDay!"), then goes down the inevitable tear-down of non-factual information.  Sometimes, I think folks really don't see what they say before they say it.

 

Coming into this thread, I'd thought I'd be reading about a new business development in Cleveland but, again, it turns into something that...Columbus has got.  I'm fine if you want to discuss what Cleveland can do or what should've done to get _*Insert Business Here*_ but when it gets to the point of predictable, subtle bashing of the other 2Cs (or anywhere in Ohio), I'm not here to play anymore. I've allowed it for years but this is 2025.  Not anymore.

 

Please keep this thread about Cleveland, thanks. Last warning, thanks.

 

Absolutely not intended as Columbus bashing in any way. My post was reacting to and criticizing the cynicism that inevitably poisons Cleveland related discussions. FWIW, I grew up in Columbus and much of my family lives there now. If I didn't live in Cleveland, I would almost certainly live in Columbus. I vehemently disagree with some of the negative perspectives by others above, but I won't directly engage to avoid this getting sidetracked.

 

The only point I'm making by the comparison (which I think is keeping this thread about Cleveland, but tell me if I'm wrong) is that we (Cleveland) can adopt a growth mindset by looking at the things Cleveland does well and trying to capitalize on those things in light of what's happening around the state. And we can look at what is working for our neighboring cities (e.g., Columbus, Pittsburgh) and try to support them in it and create mutually beneficial relationships as opposed to mindless emulation or envy. For instance, Cleveland has a port on the great lakes, so let's focus on utilizing and leveraging that port to support and enrich not just this city but the whole state. Cleveland has a lot of smaller remediated brownfield sites, so let's focus on securing the kinds of smaller manufacturers that supply necessary parts for manufacturers like Intel and Anduril. Cleveland has the nation's best orchestra. So let's promote it in a way that creates awareness throughout the state and draws more people from other cities so they can also enjoy what we know and love. If we look at things happening throughout the state as missed opportunities instead of what they are--opportunities--then we're totally missing the ball. That's all I'm trying to convey here.

I understand and that's why I said "even in the best intentions."  I got what you're saying and, like I said, it's fine to discuss how Cleveland can improve, etc but what I highlighted is the issue.  Just keep it to the topic without the "City has __ over City" stuff.  As we've see on this forum for decades that leads down a suspension/ban/Off-Topic/Closed Topic path. 

 

Just helping you out before the inevitable comes.

What a week, ugh!

 

...Joann Inc. said that it expects to lay off 661 employees tied to its corporate headquarters in Hudson if the company is unable to find a buyer to save it from liquidation and continue operating the business as is, according to a Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification (WARN) Act filing...

 

Link (paywall):

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/retail/joann-layoffs-could-hit-hudson-if-it-cant-find-buyer

I think Bibb has done well negotiating with the Browns, and both the county and city are in alignment.  My sense is that Haslem thought this would be a cakewalk and its not.  Given the timing, lack of secured public funding, and ongoing litigation, there is no way a dome will be built by the 2028 season.  

 

If you look at most dome stadiums (and open stadiums) they are completely surrounded by a sea of parking lots.  I don't see a Brookpark stadium being any different.  

58 minutes ago, DHubb said:

What a week, ugh!

 

...Joann Inc. said that it expects to lay off 661 employees tied to its corporate headquarters in Hudson if the company is unable to find a buyer to save it from liquidation and continue operating the business as is, according to a Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification (WARN) Act filing...

 

Link (paywall):

 

https://www.crainscleveland.com/retail/joann-layoffs-could-hit-hudson-if-it-cant-find-buyer

 

they've been on life support for the last decade

2 hours ago, Zagapi said:

 

What leaders are infighting over the Browns? Bibb, Ronayne, and Council all seem to be on the same side against Haslam.

 

The distraction is Haslam being a bad actor.

I think they are referring to someone in Hamilton County saying Cleveland cant have everything.

4 hours ago, Whipjacka said:

 

they've been on life support for the last decade

Ya it's unfortunate. The business has just not adapted to the market in a long time. With the way shopping is now and the products they sell, most of their stores are waayyyyyyyy too big for 2025. 

 

They would probably do well partnering with another business to open 7-8k sq ft stores in places like all of the closed Rite Aids or Walgreens buildings which are usually around 15k sq ft vs their current store size of 15-20k sq ft for small stores and 30k+ for super stores. 

Let’s not forget that some of our ARPA money is going to preparing and remediating sites in order to attract more business opportunities 

 

“Site Acquisition and Development: Acquire, remediate, and prepare commercial sites for business development and growth along Opportunity Corridor, ultimately attracting more jobs to the City. ”

 

That landed with a $50 million budget in addition to $3.5 for opportunity corridor. Only about $8 million has been spent, so I think we have a lot of upside when it comes to attracting new business investment. 

25 minutes ago, Henke said:

Let’s not forget that some of our ARPA money is going to preparing and remediating sites in order to attract more business opportunities 

 

“Site Acquisition and Development: Acquire, remediate, and prepare commercial sites for business development and growth along Opportunity Corridor, ultimately attracting more jobs to the City. ”

 

That landed with a $50 million budget in addition to $3.5 for opportunity corridor. Only about $8 million has been spent, so I think we have a lot of upside when it comes to attracting new business investment. 

Good news!  We need to do all we can do to make NE Ohio more competitive.  Now we need to get better airline service along with an updated terminal!

19 hours ago, PlanCleveland said:

Ya it's unfortunate. The business has just not adapted to the market in a long time. With the way shopping is now and the products they sell, most of their stores are waayyyyyyyy too big for 2025. 

 

They would probably do well partnering with another business to open 7-8k sq ft stores in places like all of the closed Rite Aids or Walgreens buildings which are usually around 15k sq ft vs their current store size of 15-20k sq ft for small stores and 30k+ for super stores. 

 

I've read, in addition, that their attempts to compete with Michael's as a general craft store rather than being (in many areas) the only place to buy sewing supplies/bulk fabric hurt them more than it helped. True, home sewing isn't as big as it used to be but there are still a lot of people that do it, and often Joann is the only place to buy these supplies. A lot of smaller "sewing" stores are really quilting stores that may carry some supplies but generally don't carry the kinds of fabric and tools used for making garments.

 

I hope someone figures something out because if they were to simply disappear it would basically kill home sewing for many/most. Ordering fabric online is less than ideal and will likely keep a lot of people, especially in smaller towns, from ever trying it in the first place. 

Thought of this after I posted and didn't want to edit:

 

I think the smaller footprint and paring back to being sewing-related might fix/solve a lot of their problems, because even though home garment sewing isn't as big as it used to be, it's still big and may be experiencing something of a resurgence (italics because I may be biased because I do some home garment making and so I want to allow for confirmation bias).

 

That being said, both for being a store I use and one that's HQ-ed in Ohio, I hope for the best here. 

33 minutes ago, GrassIsGreener said:

Thought of this after I posted and didn't want to edit:

 

I think the smaller footprint and paring back to being sewing-related might fix/solve a lot of their problems, because even though home garment sewing isn't as big as it used to be, it's still big and may be experiencing something of a resurgence (italics because I may be biased because I do some home garment making and so I want to allow for confirmation bias).

 

That being said, both for being a store I use and one that's HQ-ed in Ohio, I hope for the best here. 

 

I've had this same thought, in part because of something you alluded to above; when buying fabrics you want to actually see and feel the fabric so it is one of the few retail formats that makes sense to retain a brick and mortar footprint. 

 

The smaller format would also cover more than just garmet sewing; you mentioned quilting but also upholstery. Smaller format and niche focus also lets you train your employees to be specialists instead of generalists so they can actually be helpful to newbies or DIYers.  

On 1/16/2025 at 10:06 AM, VintageLife said:

This right here, if high speed rail could connect the 3 Cs all these projects would benefit the entire state. Taking a train to south Columbus from Cleveland or Cincy could be a doable time for any job. It’s sad that the leaders of the state don’t seem to be pushing this at all though. 

 

I would take a reliable commuter type rail with a half decent schedule. I used to take amtrak from Sacramento to SF quite frequently. It was a very pleasant 2.5 hour trip.

 

The commuter rail between San Jose and SF was even better.

 

Huge opportunity loss that we haven't implemented any semblance of this in Ohio. 

 

2 minutes ago, Jax said:

 

I would take a reliable commuter type rail with a half decent schedule. I used to take amtrak from Sacramento to SF quite frequently. It was a very pleasant 2.5 hour trip.

 

The commuter rail between San Jose and SF was even better.

 

Huge opportunity loss that we haven't implemented any semblance of this in Ohio. 

 

It was supposed to happen about 10 years ago, but the leadership turned down the millions in federal money. 

35 minutes ago, VintageLife said:

It was supposed to happen about 10 years ago, but the leadership turned down the millions in federal money. 

And California ended up with it

1 hour ago, Jax said:

 

I would take a reliable commuter type rail with a half decent schedule. I used to take amtrak from Sacramento to SF quite frequently. It was a very pleasant 2.5 hour trip.

 

The commuter rail between San Jose and SF was even better.

 

Huge opportunity loss that we haven't implemented any semblance of this in Ohio. 

 

 

There's way too many spots close to that route where the legislators would demand a stop and likely have the clout to make it happen.

Not to mention I 71 has very light traffic, for the most part, making the trip from Cleveland to Columbus extremely easy and quick by car.  I use the train in Boston constantly, but that's because driving on 95 and 93 is terrible!  Much quicker and easier to commute by train.  It would be a tough sell on the consumer to get their butt's in train seats, given the higher cost (most likely) and longer door to door trip times.  Despite the fact it would be awesome if a rail line existed.

I'd love to see more frequent and faster service to Washington, Philly and NY.

 

Edited January 18Jan 18 by Jenny

1 hour ago, Jenny said:

Not to mention I 71 has very light traffic, for the most part, making the trip from Cleveland to Columbus extremely easy and quick by car.  I use the train in Boston constantly, but that's because driving on 95 and 93 is terrible!  Much quicker and easier to commute by train.  It would be a tough sell on the consumer to get their butt's in train seats, given the higher cost (most likely) and longer door to door trip times.  Despite the fact it would be awesome if a rail line existed.

I'd love to see more frequent and faster service to Washington, Philly and NY.

 

I would argue that the benefit of a train over driving is the ability to do other things during that time, versus just focusing on the road. You could have a virtual meeting, do some work, read a book or sleep for a couple hours before you get to your destination station.

34 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said:

I would argue that the benefit of a train over driving is the ability to do other things during that time, versus just focusing on the road. You could have a virtual meeting, do some work, read a book or sleep for a couple hours before you get to your destination station.

100% this, it isn’t always about getting somewhere faster. It’s the ease of the travel and the ability to do other things while on the train. For a lot of people traffic is stressful and not something they want to do, so riding on a train would be amazing for them. 

yes, absolutely. and you also can appreciate the changing landscape and communities you pass through better. it's why I hate the advertisement wraps on rta buses - you can't actually see the areas your passing through all that well which imo is another missed opportunity for showcasing what all we have.

Yes, let's get back to business/economic news.  Any politics discussion should be kept very close to that topic.

Open AI says it’s going to spend $500B over 4 years on AI infrastructure with a new company it created in partnership with other big tech companies. I assume this is mostly giant data centers. They are looking around the country for locations and I’m sure they are looking at Ohio. This would seem to present the same land challenges we have discussed related to Intel but I hope our Econ development folks are in the mix, if it makes sense. I’m also not sure how much economic benefit data centers create outside construction. https://openai.com/index/announcing-the-stargate-project/

26 minutes ago, coneflower said:

sense. I’m also not sure how much economic benefit data centers create outside construction

Not a ton, they usually only employ about 30-40 people if that. They also require a lot of resources. 

1 hour ago, VintageLife said:

Not a ton, they usually only employ about 30-40 people if that. They also require a lot of resources. 

yeah upon further reading this announcement sounds like smoke and mirrors. 

1 hour ago, VintageLife said:

Not a ton, they usually only employ about 30-40 people if that. They also require a lot of resources. 

AI is similar to any other "natural resource".  Takes effort to capture it through engineering and construction, but once the structure and system is built, general maintenance can produce it forever for a nominal fee.  

Sounds like Moen is moving salaried workers to Illinois:

 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20250122598991/en/Fortune-Brands-Announces-Key-Organization-and-Leadership-Changes-to-Drive-Accelerated-Growth-and-Alignment

^ Bummer for North Olmsted and the region, but I’m not surprised. I worked with a guy who used to work in the NO office pre-Covid and he said this was totally on the cards even then. Late last year they posted a job that caught my interest, but was based in IL. I checked with my friend who confirmed that same job was previously done out of the NO office. 

Cleveland is off to a rough start in 2025.

I think the slow decline of office jobs is not really a big deal. Actually, so long as it's not so severe that the metro loses total jobs, I think it's good if it keeps slowly happening so that we, as a metro, can learn to cope and deal with it.

 

Because automation is coming for office jobs the way it came for manufacturing jobs, only much faster. And in the next decade, those metros that rely heavily on high-skill knowledge workers for their GDP are likely to experience something along the lines of rapid deindustrialization. Just it will be for knowledge workers, not factory workers.

 

This may sound a little dramatic, but I mean it seriously. The major economic turning point of our lives is coming soon. And it's hard to know exactly what it will mean, but I would not personally want to be in one of the major office-relocation-destination metros like Austin or Nashville.

13 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said:

I think the slow decline of office jobs is not really a big deal. Actually, so long as it's not so severe that the metro loses total jobs, I think it's good if it keeps slowly happening so that we, as a metro, can learn to cope and deal with it.

 

Because automation is coming for office jobs the way it came for manufacturing jobs, only much faster. And in the next decade, those metros that rely heavily on high-skill knowledge workers for their GDP are likely to experience something along the lines of rapid deindustrialization. Just it will be for knowledge workers, not factory workers.

 

This may sound a little dramatic, but I mean it seriously. The major economic turning point of our lives is coming soon. And it's hard to know exactly what it will mean, but I would not personally want to be in one of the major office-relocation-destination metros like Austin or Nashville.

I'm not here to compare cities or have a "woe is me" mentality but I'm tired of HAVING to cope with losses. I understand that Columbus loses jobs too but they also grow them at an amazing clip. I'm not saying that we need to grow like Columbus but dang we seem like we take 1 step forward and 2 steps back. We buy Valspar, but leave their jobs in Minneapolis, while if it was flipped Sherwin would be on the first flight to the twin cities. We takeover all of these steel companies, but when we finally can take over the biggest one we potentially will lose the headquarters to Pittsburgh. Now Moen is moving employees to Deerfield with its parent company. Jesus Christ. 

22 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I'm not here to compare cities or have a "woe is me" mentality but I'm tired of HAVING to cope with losses. I understand that Columbus loses jobs too but they also grow them at an amazing clip. I'm not saying that we need to grow like Columbus but dang we seem like we take 1 step forward and 2 steps back. We buy Valspar, but leave their jobs in Minneapolis, while if it was flipped Sherwin would be on the first flight to the twin cities. We takeover all of these steel companies, but when we finally can take over the biggest one we potentially will lose the headquarters to Pittsburgh. Now Moen is moving employees to Deerfield with its parent company. Jesus Christ. 

 

And don't forget the pending loss of the JoAnn Fabrics headquarters, but perhaps the biggest slap in the face; Pittsburgh gaining a Wegmans while Cleveland gains "Grocery Outlet".  Also, I predict Columbus to be the next in line to get a Wegman's.    

Edited January 22Jan 22 by willyboy

Jury is still out on Cleveland Cliffs. That maniac might be trying to extort local subsidies to stay and using that unhinged performance as leverage.

That’s a lot of jobs. Also, are they giving those Moen folks more money to compensate for the higher cost of living in IL? I’m guessing they expect a lot of people not to move, which means it’s a layoff too. 

 

We need more business/job creation that is locally grown. I honestly try not to think about AI causing mass layoffs because I don’t know what happens then. There are lots of people nationwide struggling to find work. 😩

14 minutes ago, willyboy said:

Pittsburgh gaining a Wegmans while Cleveland gains "Grocery Outlet".  Also, I predict Columbus to be the next in line to gain Wegman's.    

And Pittsburgh and Columbus have IKEA. 

2 minutes ago, coneflower said:

We need more business/job creation that is locally grown. 

But then once they grow, they often get gobbled up by a big, out-of-town interest.

2 hours ago, Henke said:

Sounds like Moen is moving salaried workers to Illinois:

 

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20250122598991/en/Fortune-Brands-Announces-Key-Organization-and-Leadership-Changes-to-Drive-Accelerated-Growth-and-Alignment

 

Damn, this site isn't exactly where I expect to find out one of my daughter's ex(?) boyfriends is moving.

Is Team NEO not doing it's job?  I feel it could be doing better.

12 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

But then once they grow, they often get gobbled up by a big, out-of-town interest.

This ☝️

33 minutes ago, coneflower said:

That’s a lot of jobs. Also, are they giving those Moen folks more money to compensate for the higher cost of living in IL? I’m guessing they expect a lot of people not to move, which means it’s a layoff too. 

 

We need more business/job creation that is locally grown. I honestly try not to think about AI causing mass layoffs because I don’t know what happens then. There are lots of people nationwide struggling to find work. 😩

I’m hearing 15% raise to go, 2 weeks severance if you decline 

 

Additionally 10k for moving plus closing costs plus realtor fees

7 minutes ago, Henke said:

I’m hearing 15% raise to go, 2 weeks severance if you decline 

 

Two month's minimum continued employment or severance under WARN.

I’m hearing this from a friend whose coworker’s husband has been there a year.
 

He may not qualify for full benefits or something could be getting lost in translation. 

23 minutes ago, Henke said:

I’m hearing 15% raise to go, 2 weeks severance if you decline 

 

Additionally 10k for moving plus closing costs plus realtor fees

 

Wow. Cost of living in Chicago is 26% higher (according to bankrate.com). I feel for these folks. The company is cutting jobs or the people it's keeping are going to be way underpaid compared local market. If you make the move, you have to start looking for a new job right away to be compensated fairly. 

 

41 minutes ago, DHubb said:

Is Team NEO not doing it's job?  I feel it could be doing better.

 

I'm not real impressed with these local non-profits. 

I'm also hearing employees were told of the move yesterday.

1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said:

I'm not here to compare cities or have a "woe is me" mentality 

I have some bad news

3 minutes ago, coneflower said:

 

Wow. Cost of living in Chicago is 26% higher (according to bankrate.com). I feel for these folks. The company is cutting jobs or the people it's keeping are going to be way underpaid compared local market. If you make the move, you have to start looking for a new job right away to be compensated fairly. 

 

 

I'm not real impressed with these local non-profits. 

It seems like they're aren't bringing many new jobs to the area. 🙁 Team NEO has been around for awhile, and I don't think they've brought in relatively few big job makers.

8 minutes ago, KJP said:

I'm also hearing employees were told of the move yesterday.

As mentioned up thread, 2025 is starting terribly.  I hope those who are tasked with bringing in new businesses/jobs take to heart what is happening now and reinforce their efforts to attract new businesses.

  

Edited January 22Jan 22 by DHubb