January 22Jan 22 1 hour ago, willyboy said: And don't forget the pending loss of the JoAnn Fabrics headquarters, but perhaps the biggest slap in the face; Pittsburgh gaining a Wegmans while Cleveland gains "Grocery Outlet". Also, I predict Columbus to be the next in line to get a Wegman's. I'm surprised Pittsburgh-headquartered Giant Eagle is letting this happen. I would LOVE if Wegmans moved into Cleveland and pushed Giant Eagle out. They are so much better.
January 22Jan 22 Moen moving its HQ to Chicagoland By Ken Prendergast / January 22, 2025 Faucet and fixture maker Moen Inc. is relocating is corporate headquarters from the western Cleveland suburb of North Olmsted to the northern Chicago suburb of Deerfield, IL by the summer of 2026, according to a press release and affected employees. It is not known how many of Moen’s 600-plus HQ employees are making the move but it appears that a significant number of them will. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/01/22/moen-moving-its-hq-to-chicagoland/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 22Jan 22 Whatever happened to that surprise company that was supposed to be moving to the region? I thought (Blaine Griffin?) mentioned someone was moving here.
January 22Jan 22 3 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: We buy Valspar, but leave their jobs in Minneapolis, while if it was flipped Sherwin would be on the first flight to the twin cities. Ummm..... https://neo-trans.blog/2023/12/01/sherwin-williams-to-move-valspar-to-greater-cleveland/
January 22Jan 22 3 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said: Whatever happened to that surprise company that was supposed to be moving to the region? I thought (Blaine Griffin?) mentioned someone was moving here. my guess is that he is referring to Canon
January 22Jan 22 4 minutes ago, E Rocc said: Ummm..... https://neo-trans.blog/2023/12/01/sherwin-williams-to-move-valspar-to-greater-cleveland/ I'm familiar with the story but there hasn't been any update or word of that actually happening since that story came out. So until then, Valspar and Sherwin HQ's are in two different cities.
January 22Jan 22 3 minutes ago, freefourur said: my guess is that he is referring to Canon I could've sworn it was clarified on here that it wasn't Canon.
January 22Jan 22 The thing that is frustrating is that you have to think if someone offered to move a bunch of jobs to Cleveland, they'd get huge tax breaks, super cheap real estate, cheaper workers... You'd think this would entice at least a few companies. Now I'm feeling really mopey. I still have a lot of working to do before I retire and I don't want to have to move to keep advancing!
January 22Jan 22 The Moen situation to me shows the downside of the fragmentation of Cuyahoga County. If Cleveland and Cuyahoga County operated as one entity we would see more fight and will power from the ENTIRE county because it would affect more people. With this fragmentation most people would view Moen as not a big deal. Strongsville, Westlake, Beachwood etc. from both a leadership and resident level don't care and won't try to save them from leaving or attract a new company TOGETHER because this loss doesn't hurt them directly.
January 22Jan 22 While I researching the Moen article, I was curious why this Deerfield office building was available. And while looking, not only did I see that the former occupant Horizon Therapeutics had moved its headquarters out of Chicago (to Dublin, Ireland), but another big company Tekada USA pharmaceutical recently moved its HQ to Boston. Everyone's moving. No one is staying put. Keep developing new start-ups because they are the job creators. And when they get bought up, moved out, or go bankrupt, it sucks. But you gotta keep feeding the start-ups or your economy will die. Rust Belt cities forgot that lesson and tried to save themselves by getting companies to relocate to them. That rarely happens. Every day we must start anew. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 22Jan 22 1 hour ago, Cleburger said: I'm surprised Pittsburgh-headquartered Giant Eagle is letting this happen. I would LOVE if Wegmans moved into Cleveland and pushed Giant Eagle out. They are so much better. Most Wegmans are a step above Giant but not much - but very similar to some of the nicer Heinen's and Whole Foods. It is a novelty at first in each region they enter but then wears off. But I am sure Ohio is a matter of time since they are so close already in Erie. Would rather have a Lidl which is expanding rapidly in the US to fill the gaps.
January 22Jan 22 16 minutes ago, freefourur said: my guess is that he is referring to Canon Was it Sheetz? Can we steal the hq from Altoona, Pa. 🤣 Is growing and better than Wawa and Getgo at least. https://cstoredecisions.com/sheetz-details-ohio-expansion-plans/
January 22Jan 22 Deerfield is in a particularly expensive part of Chicagoland, so people who move there from Cleveland are in for a sticker shock in terms of housing and property taxes. Also not an area where living in the city and commuting out makes sense, so seems pretty short-sided for attracting younger employees who want to live in the city. The Moen CEO has ties to the north shore suburbs and went to Northwestern, so I'm sure that was part of it.
January 22Jan 22 22 minutes ago, KJP said: While I researching the Moen article, I was curious why this Deerfield office building was available. And while looking, not only did I see that the former occupant Horizon Therapeutics had moved its headquarters out of Chicago (to Dublin, Ireland), but another big company Tekada USA pharmaceutical recently moved its HQ to Boston. Everyone's moving. No one is staying put. Keep developing new start-ups because they are the job creators. And when they get bought up, moved out, or go bankrupt, it sucks. But you gotta keep feeding the start-ups or your economy will die. Rust Belt cities forgot that lesson and tried to save themselves by getting companies to relocate to them. That rarely happens. Every day we must start anew. Ironically, this Deerfield office location is where Caterpillar used to be located, and they left Illinois for Texas. Links: Caterpillar to move headquarters to Texas, marking second major corporate departure from Illinois in 6 weeks Caterpillar HQ leaving for Texas, decade after CEO warned Illinois Edited January 22Jan 22 by Rustbelter
January 22Jan 22 23 minutes ago, Willo said: Was it Sheetz? Can we steal the hq from Altoona, Pa. 🤣 Is growing and better than Wawa and Getgo at least. https://cstoredecisions.com/sheetz-details-ohio-expansion-plans/ All this time I thought Sheetz was already located in Ohio.
January 22Jan 22 And whatever happened to the London Stock Exchange that was supposed to set up a North American office in Cleveland? I don't think that ever happened.
January 22Jan 22 8 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: And whatever happened to the London Stock Exchange that was supposed to set up a North American office in Cleveland? I don't think that ever happened. Global Pandemic happened and this was never heard from again.
January 22Jan 22 1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said: I'm familiar with the story but there hasn't been any update or word of that actually happening since that story came out. So until then, Valspar and Sherwin HQ's are in two different cities. Well, the Valspar cans at Lowe's say Valspar - Cleveland Ohio on them. It seems like they're just a brand in the SHW marketing arsenal.
January 22Jan 22 SHW doesn't even have enough space in the new HQ for its Cleveland employees. Where would the Valspar employees go?
January 22Jan 22 2 hours ago, Willo said: Most Wegmans are a step above Giant but not much - but very similar to some of the nicer Heinen's and Whole Foods. It is a novelty at first in each region they enter but then wears off. But I am sure Ohio is a matter of time since they are so close already in Erie. Would rather have a Lidl which is expanding rapidly in the US to fill the gaps. I would argue otherwise. I walked into Wegmans on Christmas Eve in Buffalo and they must have had 25 human cashiers working. That's something you never see in Giant Eagle. Plus their prepared foods and cafe area are light years beyond the others.
January 23Jan 23 3 hours ago, MyPhoneDead said: All this time I thought Sheetz was already located in Ohio. btw...Sheetz is building a major distribution center in Findlay - 700 jobs - our region should be getting these types of projects too. https://cstoredecisions.com/sheetz-breaks-ground-on-500000-square-foot-distribution-facility/
January 23Jan 23 1 hour ago, Cleburger said: I would argue otherwise. I walked into Wegmans on Christmas Eve in Buffalo and they must have had 25 human cashiers working. That's something you never see in Giant Eagle. Plus their prepared foods and cafe area are light years beyond the others. Yes its like night and day. I assume he was referring to the "market district" stores which I believe were modeled after Wegmans. Otherwise there is absolutely no argument, GE suc%s. Multiple times they were named the worst grocery chain in the country.
January 23Jan 23 34 minutes ago, willyboy said: Yes its like night and day. I assume he was referring to the "market district" stores which I believe were modeled after Wegmans. Otherwise there is absolutely no argument, GE suc%s. Multiple times they were named the worst grocery chain in the country. Even those Market District stores are poor imitations, and they still lack human cashiers.
January 23Jan 23 12 minutes ago, Cleburger said: Even those Market District stores are poor imitations, and they still lack human cashiers. Lacking human cashiers is not a negative in our book - we prefer self-checkout - especially after the lost virus years. We loved the Amazon Fresh stores especially with the experimental just walk out shopping carts (was fun while the experiment lasted). Otherwise, you are correct, we would not miss Giant Eagle stores if they disappeared (must be the Pittsburgh connection to some degree) except for their deep discounts on routine items - but Walmart Superstores can fill that void too. Wegmans, Whole Foods and Heinen's are equally good but pricier. Bring more of those and Trader Joes and Lidl.
January 23Jan 23 I don't understand getting excited about adding another chain to the region to compete with our local grocers.
January 23Jan 23 10 hours ago, Willo said: Lacking human cashiers is not a negative in our book - we prefer self-checkout - especially after the lost virus years. We loved the Amazon Fresh stores especially with the experimental just walk out shopping carts (was fun while the experiment lasted). Otherwise, you are correct, we would not miss Giant Eagle stores if they disappeared (must be the Pittsburgh connection to some degree) except for their deep discounts on routine items - but Walmart Superstores can fill that void too. Wegmans, Whole Foods and Heinen's are equally good but pricier. Bring more of those and Trader Joes and Lidl. I used to be a major GE detractor, but the Mentor store has a section specifically designed for curbside and I work nearby, so that's a plus.
January 23Jan 23 14 hours ago, X said: I don't understand getting excited about adding another chain to the region to compete with our local grocers. I'd like to see Heinen's add a few more locations in the Cleveland area.
January 23Jan 23 14 hours ago, Willo said: Lacking human cashiers is not a negative in our book - we prefer self-checkout - especially after the lost virus years. We loved the Amazon Fresh stores especially with the experimental just walk out shopping carts (was fun while the experiment lasted). Otherwise, you are correct, we would not miss Giant Eagle stores if they disappeared (must be the Pittsburgh connection to some degree) except for their deep discounts on routine items - but Walmart Superstores can fill that void too. Wegmans, Whole Foods and Heinen's are equally good but pricier. Bring more of those and Trader Joes and Lidl. Lidl was to build a store on Broadview Rd, but it was shelved, as the company dealt with their less than stellar U.S. rollout. I believe there is now a Tractor Supply in that spot. We go to Lidl, when in Wilmington, N.C. IMO, it is like Aldi, without the quarter for a cart nonsense, somewhat larger, with multiple "aisles of shame," and more unique, interesting food products.
January 23Jan 23 33 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: I'd like to see Heinen's add a few more locations in the Cleveland area. Exactly. I worked at Heinen's in high school and college and they treat their employees well, are pro union, and the owners genuinely care. Last I knew downtown was still losing money but they keep it open as a way of giving back and wanting to contribute to downtown. I don't want to see a company that could run Heinen's out of business. Their headquarters are in Warrensville heights and so they add to the economy in a way an out of town headquarters would not.
January 23Jan 23 They may care, but the Cedar/Green store is maybe 75% self-checkout now. It's pretty disheartening to see, and not helpful for employee job security. Miles Market, on the other hand, seems to have virtually no self-checkout (maybe at the last aisle?) Then again they have a ton of threatening messages against their employees for the customers to read. Go figure that business model out.
January 23Jan 23 21 hours ago, Rustbelter said: Ironically, this Deerfield office location is where Caterpillar used to be located, and they left Illinois for Texas. Links: Caterpillar to move headquarters to Texas, marking second major corporate departure from Illinois in 6 weeks Caterpillar HQ leaving for Texas, decade after CEO warned Illinois I live one town over from Deerfield so selfishly happy to see more tenants in the building. Amgen keeping some of the employees there after buying Horizon. When Takeda moved from that building to Boston it was a major blow. Ironically Fortune was HQ’d in same building complex (in Deerfield) that Caterpillar was after they unceremoniously moved there from Peoria. The moral of the story is that companies have zero loyalty these days. Also Discover, Baxter and Walgreens are all HQ’d in same neighborhood. And not sure of Discover status there since they were bought by Capital One. Edited January 23Jan 23 by BigMacky
January 23Jan 23 https://www.crainscleveland.com/technology/blue-abyss-nasa-glenn-sign-space-act-agreement Since 2025 has started out with crappy Cleveland economic news, here is a positive one from the article on blue abyss. The complex, outside the NASA Glenn gate, is projected to add nearly 1,800 full-time jobs
January 23Jan 23 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 23Jan 23 1 hour ago, willyboy said: Also some pretty big layoffs happening at CCF. I’m not seeing that anywhere.
January 24Jan 24 6 hours ago, BigMacky said: I live one town over from Deerfield so selfishly happy to see more tenants in the building. Amgen keeping some of the employees there after buying Horizon. When Takeda moved from that building to Boston it was a major blow. Ironically Fortune was HQ’d in same building complex (in Deerfield) that Caterpillar was after they unceremoniously moved there from Peoria. The moral of the story is that companies have zero loyalty these days. Also Discover, Baxter and Walgreens are all HQ’d in same neighborhood. And not sure of Discover status there since they were bought by Capital One. I'm pretty familiar with the area from my time living in Chicago, as my work would have me up in Lake County frequently to meet clients. Always thought the corporate office market up there would drain out of the area given current trends and younger people wanting to be in the city more starting with the millennials. I remember Walgreens talking about moving their headquarters to downtown Chicago, but the pandemic put the kibosh on that as far as I know. I'm personally skeptical this will end up well in the long term for Moen....but I'm sure some corporate hawks are going to make some bank in the process. It's not like IL is tax friendly for businesses, and the draw is the large pool of workers who are more likely wanting to be in the city (except for 55+ crowd). Talked to a friend who is a long time worker at Moen but not management. He confirmed 15% raises and $7500 relocation, but he'll get a severance package if he doesn't move (he won't). Some people didn't get that though. Said that he thinks maybe 10% will actually move to IL, and those who do will likely be management types. I mean that raise maybe covers the property and other tax increases, and then rank & file workers can sell their Ohio house to end up being able to afford buying somewhere like Gurnee or Grayslake...does not sound like a good deal to me.
January 24Jan 24 10 hours ago, Rustbelter said: Talked to a friend who is a long time worker at Moen but not management. He confirmed 15% raises and $7500 relocation, but he'll get a severance package if he doesn't move (he won't). Some people didn't get that though. Said that he thinks maybe 10% will actually move to IL, and those who do will likely be management types. I mean that raise maybe covers the property and other tax increases, and then rank & file workers can sell their Ohio house to end up being able to afford buying somewhere like Gurnee or Grayslake...does not sound like a good deal to me. This more or less confirms the buzz I have heard from random lower management levels. My daughter's apparently not really talking to Campbell's son much lately so I can't confirm it on that level.
January 24Jan 24 Also I had a feeling this would happen…not as many jobs lost and at least MKE residents can still drive to Deerfield if they have/want to …it’s a little over an hour. https://www.wisn.com/article/master-lock-oak-creek-headquarters-to-close/63533835 What’s worse is this news related to the Fortune ownership. https://www.wisn.com/article/milwaukee-mayor-master-lock-plant-closure-slap-face/44008463
January 24Jan 24 Here's how ya move -- intracity! Catanese Seafood to sail from Flats to Collinwood By Ken Prendergast / January 24, 2025 A familiar face in Cleveland’s Flats district is packing up and heading to the city’s east side to make way for the Cleveland Metroparks’ expanding makeover of the Cuyahoga River waterfront. Catanese Classic Seafood, 1600 Merwin Ave., is making a move in the coming year to the Greater Cleveland Food Bank’s facility at 15500 S. Waterloo Rd. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2025/01/24/catanese-seafood-to-sail-from-flats-to-collinwood/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 24Jan 24 16 hours ago, JB said: I’m not seeing that anywhere. You will Edited January 24Jan 24 by willyboy
January 24Jan 24 17 hours ago, willyboy said: Also some pretty big layoffs happening at CCF. I'm beginning to lose faith in the regions momentum in 2025. 2024 seemed like we were ready to boom. Idk wtf is going on now.
January 24Jan 24 1 hour ago, MyPhoneDead said: I'm beginning to lose faith in the regions momentum in 2025. 2024 seemed like we were ready to boom. Idk wtf is going on now. Here, here. I'm trying to stay hopeful that all the negative news this month was all bottled up and dumped at once, and the rest of the year is more positive 😓
January 24Jan 24 I’ll pile on in the spirit of hopefully getting all this out of the way early in the year; Nestle in Solon are cutting people right now too. My hovercraft is full of eels
January 24Jan 24 3 hours ago, BigMacky said: Also I had a feeling this would happen…not as many jobs lost and at least MKE residents can still drive to Deerfield if they have/want to …it’s a little over an hour. https://www.wisn.com/article/master-lock-oak-creek-headquarters-to-close/63533835 What’s worse is this news related to the Fortune ownership. https://www.wisn.com/article/milwaukee-mayor-master-lock-plant-closure-slap-face/44008463 Fortune Brands is not an especially successful conglomerate. It's sales and profit performance since 2021 has been mediocre at best; the stock has gone nowhere. Their "positioning for growth" story is plain old cost cutting. It's hard to see any synergy in centering their Water, Security, and Outdoors divisions in Deerfield; there have to be staff cuts associated with the moves to make any economic sense. Management owns less than 1% of shares; the public owns less that 5%. I'm thinking that institutions are pushing management around to generate short term cash. We know what hapens then. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
January 24Jan 24 2 hours ago, willyboy said: You will Posted it in the Clinic biz thread. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 24Jan 24 There's been a whole lot of handwringing here in the past weeks, and I think it's unnecessary. 100 people in admin roles laid off at the Clinic is nothing. I think we should try to contextualize a bit better where the economy has been, where it is now, and where it is going faster than we would probably like. With every day that goes by, office jobs become more precarious. And that's not a Cleveland issue; it's a secular issue. If a coder using AI is 50% more productive, then a company with three coders who each make $200K says "ok we now have 50% more coding hours than we need. To maximize profit, we either develop more than $200K in new revenue or we fire one coder." Some companies faced with this decision can generate the new business and grow, but some can't grow, or at least can't grow enough to make the calculus make sense, and so they fire people. Or maybe it's a small, tight-knit group, and they like their employees so they keep them all and accept reduced profits. That's what happens when coders are 50% more productive. What about when coders are 100% more productive? What about when they're 1,000% more productive? The numbers get worse and worse and it's harder to justify having large teams of people work on projects. Most of these jobs will be retained far longer than makes economic sense, because humans are both irrational and risk-averse. But eventually the jig will be up, and entire categories of jobs that employ millions of people now will simply stop existing. That is what's going to happen, and it will happen relatively quickly to most job performed primarily in front of a computer screen. Look at this graph from WEF: This is their estimated replacement potential for various skills based on comparison to GPT-4o, which isn't even the best model that exists right now, let alone in one, three, or five years. The wage labor based economy has existed only for a couple hundred years. When Cleveland has founded, the industrial revolution was still nascent. 75% of Americans worked as farmers. It feels like it was a long time ago, but in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't. It happened over several generations. What's coming next has yet to be determined (we have agency; we get to make the future), but it is likely to unfold within years, not generations. And as such, we should be forward-thinking because the job losses of the coming years are likely to be predominately secular as opposed to Cleveland-specific. And the ability of any city to survive as a city in 2030 and beyond is not likely to be tied to the ability to retain office jobs.
January 24Jan 24 On 1/22/2025 at 3:41 PM, KJP said: Everyone's moving. No one is staying put. Keep developing new start-ups because they are the job creators. And when they get bought up, moved out, or go bankrupt, it sucks. But you gotta keep feeding the start-ups or your economy will die. Rust Belt cities forgot that lesson and tried to save themselves by getting companies to relocate to them. That rarely happens. Every day we must start anew. 1 hour ago, LlamaLawyer said: There's been a whole lot of handwringing here in the past weeks, and I think it's unnecessary. 100 people in admin roles laid off at the Clinic is nothing. I think we should try to contextualize a bit better where the economy has been, where it is now, and where it is going faster than we would probably like. With every day that goes by, office jobs become more precarious. And that's not a Cleveland issue; it's a secular issue. ----- But eventually the jig will be up, and entire categories of jobs that employ millions of people now will simply stop existing. That is what's going to happen, and it will happen relatively quickly to most job performed primarily in front of a computer screen. ---- This is their estimated replacement potential for various skills based on comparison to GPT-4o, which isn't even the best model that exists right now, let alone in one, three, or five years. The wage labor based economy has existed only for a couple hundred years. When Cleveland has founded, the industrial revolution was still nascent. 75% of Americans worked as farmers. It feels like it was a long time ago, but in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't. It happened over several generations. What's coming next has yet to be determined (we have agency; we get to make the future), but it is likely to unfold within years, not generations. And as such, we should be forward-thinking because the job losses of the coming years are likely to be predominately secular as opposed to Cleveland-specific. And the ability of any city to survive as a city in 2030 and beyond is not likely to be tied to the ability to retain office jobs. These two post inspired me to share something I've been thinking about recently. With the explosion of AI in the recent few years, as well as the continued growth and adoption of Crypto amongst other things Blockchain... Cleveland should try to get in the forefront! My mind keeps going back to the idea/plan to make Tower City a Blockchain incubator, maybe they weren't to far off? As the new administration has said they want to make the USA the Crypto Capital of the world, to my knowledge there isn't a "Crypto-Capital-City" here yet!?! To go along with that, there doesn't seem to be a "Blockchain-Capital-City either. I know around the country their are some companies that have created AI's that have taken off, but it doesn't seem like they're all consolidated anywhere specific state/city wise. I feel like there is still an opportunity for a Tech-Hub of sorts in that space. What if Cleveland was to be the Crypto/Blockchain/AI Hub of the nation? Whether it was at TowerCity(I think that could be cool, more below) or another building, or no building at all. The city could put the world on notice that they'll give incentives and breaks to any and all Crypto/Blockchain/AI Startups or companies that move to/start fresh in Cleveland(within the city limits, no suburban sprawl). It would be cool if a building owner downtown wanted to open their doors to be the main incubator, where they could all be around one another, growing and working together when appropriate. Maybe Gilbert makes the main floor with the food court and RTA access open to everyone with stores and such, but then converts the other floors to a TechHub incubator... maybe, idk, haven't thought it through fully. Either way, I think it would be awesome and something CLE city leadership should look into. AI isn't going away. Crypto isn't going away, more & more countries are beginning to jump into it, and once regulation of some sort hits... its going to spread like wildfire. Because of all the Tech using it, Crypto etc, Blockchain isn't going away either. So since it's happening, why don't we be the City leading it??? Bring those people, jobs and companies here to Cleveland! Let's be the old industrial leader(SHW, Cliffs), and the newest Tech leader (Crypto/Blockchain/AI Companies & StartUps) in the country! Cleveland, get out in front and let's be the leaders in this next chapter! Would love to hear your thoughts on this, what the possibilities are... and how we can do it/get a bug in our leaders ears to do it?
January 24Jan 24 There's no question AI is going to have a deleterious impact on white collar jobs. And there's nothing people can do about it. Yes, there will be entirely new job catagories created that we can't imagine at this point but l expect the economy will see a net negative job growth. Somehow, someway society and the economy are going to have to figure out what to do with all the folks who have lost jobs due to AI. There is some talk, mostly among academics about a universal income that could be funded by an extra tax on companies that are making greater profits while employing far less staff because of AI efficiencies. But what do all of those people do with all that free time? There is something to be said about the positive impact the very act of working has on people. Work in and of itself can be good for the soul. At any rate, we are really entering a brave new world here. No one knows the outcome yet.
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