why not the NW quadrant of Public Square? I thought they indicated before they wanted to be close to their lab on the river, which is right behind Tower City.

 

So, Sherwin had a huge sales conference last month in Orlando where they sent 12,000 of their employees.  All of the Cleveland contingent believe they were going to announce the new location at that conference.  It did not happen.  The employees seem to think either public square or the West Bank of the flats.  There is absolutely no beef behind any of those thoughts except for internal rumors.

why not the NW quadrant of Public Square? I thought they indicated before they wanted to be close to their lab on the river, which is right behind Tower City.

 

So, Sherwin had a huge sales conference last month in Orlando where they sent 12,000 of their employees.  All of the Cleveland contingent believe they were going to announce the new location at that conference.  It did not happen.  The employees seem to think either public square or the West Bank of the flats.  There is absolutely no beef behind any of those thoughts except for internal rumors.

 

Pittsburgh's paint company is headquartered in a tower right near their central square downtown. I'd love Sherwin-Williams to do the same

 

I'm curious to hear from Punch[/member] who has a brother who's a S-W executive.

 

My guess is Weston's warehouse district proposal. Sounds like Nucleus is farther off than we had hoped.

 

nuCLEus's available/planned office component is way too small to accommodate S-W. They have barely more than 130,000 sf in remaining space available (if the usage split remains consistent). S-W has some 700,000 to 800,000 sf of office space downtown, not including their riverside lab.

Technically, Scranton Peninsula is the west bank of the flats and conveniently across the river from their lab. Am I hot or cold Klingaling?

The employees seem to think either public square or the West Bank of the flats.  There is absolutely no beef behind any of those thoughts except for internal rumors.

 

Both owned by Jacobs Group, for what it's worth.

West Bank (ie Nautica) is owned by Jeff Jacobs. The Public Square lot is owned by the Jacobs Group, a separate company.

 

Interesting concept about SW locating on Scranton Peninsula, although not the most accessible place for 1,000+ office workers to stream in and out of. Nor does it have any surrounding amenities like restaurants or shopping -- unless someone is building a moving walkway bridge from Tower City over the river to the peninsula.

why not the NW quadrant of Public Square? I thought they indicated before they wanted to be close to their lab on the river, which is right behind Tower City.

 

I've heard this rumor from a good source too, though it was several months ago.

Whether it's on a new building or on the roof of their Flats research building, I want to see an LED one of these guys lighting up the night:

 

Can SW revive this building, or something just as beautiful. If so, I say build at this intersection (Ontario & Huron), and include an underground RTA stop as it would be build on top of the existing tracks I think.

 

 

Can SW revive this building, or something just as beautiful. If so, I say build at this intersection (Ontario & Huron), and include an underground RTA stop as it would be build on top of the existing tracks I think.

 

Location is nice but there already is an underground station under this location: Tower City.

I always liked that concept. Was that tower specifically for Sherwin Williams at the time ?

I always liked that concept. Was that tower specifically for Sherwin Williams at the time ?

 

Yes. That was part of an ad in a magazine, with text describing the development. I'll see if I can find it.

 

But I wouldn't get too hung up on this site.

Can anyone guess when that picture from the article was taken? I think I narrowed it down to a particular year

 

 

More high-paying jobs? In Cleveland? The news is good and bad.

 

(Dave Andersen, cleveland.com)

 

By Leila Atassi, cleveland.com

on February 10, 2016 at 3:59 PM, updated February 10, 2016 at 4:12 PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cleveland officials say the city has rebounded mightily from the economic languor of the past decade, with income tax collections exceeding pre-recession levels.

 

But a recent study by the United States Conference of Mayors concludes that the Greater Cleveland area won't recover its recession-era job losses for another two years.

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/index.ssf/2016/02/more_high-paying_jobs_in_cleve.html

^is that the old Browns stadium? If so, I'll say 1996

 

Oops. Edit. Never mind, looks like there r still no seats in the Jake. 1993.

 

 

Glad our major media outlet can't take a new picture

^is that the old Browns stadium? If so, I'll say 1996

 

Oops. Edit. Never mind, looks like there r still no seats in the Jake. 1993.

 

 

Glad our major media outlet can't take a new picture

 

I think it just looks that way from the lighting, as Jacobs Field would not have been that far along during the summer months of '93. My guess was 1995 since you can see the Rock Hall, but there is no Science Center yet.

Scranton Peninsula? On second thought, if their office building was built next to the Carter Road lift bridge, it wouldn't be so isolated and it would be a short walk from their lab except when a ship is going by! It would be a short walk/drive to Columbus Peninsula where new restaurants and businesses are springing up. And it's close to the Waterfront Line station, Canal Basin Park and Towpath Trail. Point is, there's more amenities by Carter Road Bridge or will soon be.

Can we please be more pro-immigration in Cleveland?? Immigrants are more entrepreneurial and create more jobs...

 

More Than Manufacturing Could be Behind Cleveland's Slower Recovery

http://wksu.org/post/more-manufacturing-could-be-behind-clevelands-slower-recovery#stream/0

Until this city has more dynamic leadership, people will need to temper their expectations and get used to being many years behind most city's.   

Leadership changes only when the people demand change. Getting used to things only protects the status quo.

Um.. that's what I have been saying on here for years.

Explorys added 80 people after IBM deal, expects more growth

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160228/NEWS/160229846/explorys-added-80-people-after-ibm-deal-expects-more-growth?X-IgnoreUserAgent=1

between 2010 and 2014, the number of businesses in #CLE declined 3.3% https://t.co/mGlXfE31oB

between 2010 and 2014, the number of businesses in #CLE declined 3.3% https://t.co/mGlXfE31oB

 

That number can be deceiving due to mergers and the like.

And we already know from the city's budget and proposed income tax raise that the jobs coming to and opening in the city are paying more than the jobs that are disappearing. The city's funds from income taxes have been increasing. It's certainly alot more complicated than just what they're measuring there.

We're still a long ways away from regaining the number of jobs lost from the last recession, not to mention the jobs lost in the recession in 2001.  The numbers don't lie- this region has been struggling for a very long time.  I don't know why it takes a report from this group to highlight what many have known for a while when it comes to jobs in this region.  That isn't to say that high-paying jobs haven't been created in the region- by all means they have.  However, there is a large section of the population which has been left out and continues to struggle.  I hate the statistics as well, but they're real.  The question should be- what is this region going to do about it?  Will it take another census showing a declining population for the entire region to wake leaders up, or will it take new leaders to get things moving in the right direction? 

 

 

 

 

Cleveland region saw strong job growth in 2015, CSU study finds

 

The Cleveland metro area added more jobs in 2015 than any year since 1997, driven by increases in four key sectors.The region added 23,300 jobs during the year, according to a study by Cleveland State University. That’s an increase of 2.2%, higher than cities including Boston, Denver, Minneapolis and Pittsburgh, but behind Baltimore and Indianapolis.Over 87% of the job gains were in four sectors: education and health services; the leisure and hospitality industries; construction; and financial services. Nearly 1.1 million people are employed in the metro area, which includes Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake, Lorain and Medina counties.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160308/NEWS/160309851/cleveland-region-saw-strong-job-growth-in-2015-csu-study-finds

#CLE-area house prices are up, but the local housing recovery is uneven at best: https://t.co/ILE4U1EfDJ

Cleveland region saw strong job growth in 2015, CSU study finds

 

The Cleveland metro area added more jobs in 2015 than any year since 1997, driven by increases in four key sectors.The region added 23,300 jobs during the year, according to a study by Cleveland State University. That’s an increase of 2.2%, higher than cities including Boston, Denver, Minneapolis and Pittsburgh, but behind Baltimore and Indianapolis.Over 87% of the job gains were in four sectors: education and health services; the leisure and hospitality industries; construction; and financial services. Nearly 1.1 million people are employed in the metro area, which includes Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake, Lorain and Medina counties.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160308/NEWS/160309851/cleveland-region-saw-strong-job-growth-in-2015-csu-study-finds

 

One thing that is significant about this other than the obvious is that 1997 was also the last year the Cleveland MSA added population. More evidence that jobs equals population growth. Maybe we will see a small uptick when the population estimates come out later this month.

Cleveland region saw strong job growth in 2015, CSU study finds

 

The Cleveland metro area added more jobs in 2015 than any year since 1997, driven by increases in four key sectors.The region added 23,300 jobs during the year, according to a study by Cleveland State University. That’s an increase of 2.2%, higher than cities including Boston, Denver, Minneapolis and Pittsburgh, but behind Baltimore and Indianapolis.Over 87% of the job gains were in four sectors: education and health services; the leisure and hospitality industries; construction; and financial services. Nearly 1.1 million people are employed in the metro area, which includes Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake, Lorain and Medina counties.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160308/NEWS/160309851/cleveland-region-saw-strong-job-growth-in-2015-csu-study-finds

 

One thing that is significant about this other than the obvious is that 1997 was also the last year the Cleveland MSA added population. More evidence that jobs equals population growth. Maybe we will see a small uptick when the population estimates come out later this month.

 

I hope you're right. I'm tired of hearing Frank Jackson (and others) saying more people will take jobs away from those already here. :|

Cleveland region saw strong job growth in 2015, CSU study finds

 

The Cleveland metro area added more jobs in 2015 than any year since 1997, driven by increases in four key sectors.The region added 23,300 jobs during the year, according to a study by Cleveland State University. That’s an increase of 2.2%, higher than cities including Boston, Denver, Minneapolis and Pittsburgh, but behind Baltimore and Indianapolis.Over 87% of the job gains were in four sectors: education and health services; the leisure and hospitality industries; construction; and financial services. Nearly 1.1 million people are employed in the metro area, which includes Cuyahoga, Geauga, Lake, Lorain and Medina counties.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160308/NEWS/160309851/cleveland-region-saw-strong-job-growth-in-2015-csu-study-finds

 

One thing that is significant about this other than the obvious is that 1997 was also the last year the Cleveland MSA added population. More evidence that jobs equals population growth. Maybe we will see a small uptick when the population estimates come out later this month.

 

I hate to be the party pooper on this but those figures have been revised.

 

Growth was much slower, between 0.5%-1.0% for most of the second half of 2015. Also, despite the lowest unemployment rate since the early 2000s, it seems like the labor market has shrunk over the last year after flattening out between 2012-2014, never a good sign for population growth. Manufacturing continues to the hurt the region, shrinking between 0.5-1.2% y-o-y offsetting growth in other areas. Both Trump and Bernie have a point about trade still hurting the Midwest.

 

What was very surprising to me was Pittsburgh. For all the media hype of a post-industrial boom economy in that region, the revised figures show job "growth" was flat or slightly contracting y-o-y over the last six months. Might have been the worst performing economy of the top 30 metros, I didn't check them all. It's even more amazing considering Pittsburgh has a manufacturing market that is 2/3rds the size of Cleveland's. Must be the oil industry.

 

I'm kinda tired of the rah-rah pieces of an economy that clearly hasn't recovered. Cleveland leaders need to take a hard look in the mirror like Pittsburgh did in the 80s and come up with a solution to attract employment to the area. Places out west are seeing employment gains of 4-5% now. Cleveland continues to fade away.

 

 

^The supposed differences in economic trend between Pittsburgh and Cleveland seem greatly exaggerated to me. The far bigger difference seems to be the distribution of vitality within each metro area, meaning their central city appears to be performing far better than ours.

^The supposed differences in economic trend between Pittsburgh and Cleveland seem greatly exaggerated to me. The far bigger difference seems to be the distribution of vitality within each metro area, meaning their central city appears to be performing far better than ours.

 

Yet that downtown vitality doesn't seem to be helping the region as a whole. It's interesting. Like I said, I think it's oil related. That being said, at least their labor market has been flat since 2007, Cleveland's continues to fade away.

Having lived in both Cleveland and Pittsburgh the other thing to keep in mind when looking at both of their economies is that Pittsburgh's poverty is concentrated in steel towns along the Mon River, areas that are part of the metro but NOT part of Pittsburgh proper, so the city itself looks healthier.  Cleveland is the opposite, with most poverty concentrated in the city.  If McKeesport and Duquesne, and Alliquippa, and Homestead, and Rankin, and... were part of the city proper Pittsburgh's story would be different.  Great comeback story still, but one with areas of economic distress too, just like Cleveland's comeback story. 

 

I think regionally the economies are actually in quite similar places, but Pittsburgh the city is a much easier sell because the traditional rust belt issues are hidden in towns outside of the city.

Local house prices should not be going up, and I would attribute any such gains to market manipulation by the banks.  Job and wage growth should precede growth in housing prices.  When it doesn't that indicates an outside force involved, most likely somebody trying to create a bubble.

 

I do some foreclosure defense work.  Bank lawyers always claim declining neighborhoods are actually gaining value.  They also claim, without prompting, that they have no intentions of sitting on inventory.  Perish the thought.  But if that were true, they'd be better off not bringing it up.

 

Regarding Pittsburgh, I think oil is a factor.  But a healthy urban core is pretty valuable too, and most of our damage there is self-inflicted. 

This is not a Pitt vs. Cle. thing to me. It's just funny how one region is perceived and how their economies actually perform. Pitt has no job growth and a flat labor market while the nation expands around 2%, it's still fading away too, although their leaders are doing more to fix their problems than those in NE Ohio IMHO.

 

Cleveland leaders hide behind CSU studies which show the area has the largest population growth of Master-degree Millennials that are from Indiana and Nebraska who like Bernie Sanders but hate Burger King. Whooo-hoooo! Not really.

 

Also, Cleveland doesn't have a comeback story outside of Downtown, UC, and the near West Side neighborhoods. I really want it too have one but it's not there yet.

 

When Greater Cleveland can go a year beating the national job growth average, I'll say it's on it's way. I don't think the area has done that since the mid-1960s.

Having lived in both Cleveland and Pittsburgh the other thing to keep in mind when looking at both of their economies is that Pittsburgh's poverty is concentrated in steel towns along the Mon River, areas that are part of the metro but NOT part of Pittsburgh proper, so the city itself looks healthier.  Cleveland is the opposite, with most poverty concentrated in the city.  If McKeesport and Duquesne, and Alliquippa, and Homestead, and Rankin, and... were part of the city proper Pittsburgh's story would be different.  Great comeback story still, but one with areas of economic distress too, just like Cleveland's comeback story. 

 

I think regionally the economies are actually in quite similar places, but Pittsburgh the city is a much easier sell because the traditional rust belt issues are hidden in towns outside of the city.

 

This is not a Pitt vs. Cle. thing to me. It's just funny how one region is perceived and how their economies actually perform. Pitt has no job growth and a flat labor market while the nation expands around 2%, it's still fading away too, although their leaders are doing more to fix their problems than those in NE Ohio IMHO.

 

Cleveland leaders hide behind CSU studies which show the area has the largest population growth of Master-degree Millennials that are from Indiana and Nebraska who like Bernie Sanders but hate Burger King. Whooo-hoooo! Not really.

 

Also, Cleveland doesn't have a comeback story outside of Downtown, UC, and the near West Side neighborhoods. I really want it too have one but it's not there yet.

 

When Cleveland can go a year beating the national job growth average, I'll say it's on it's way. I don't think the area has done that since the mid-1960s.

 

I agree with you and was trying to make the point that I think both cities economies are actually in a more similar place than recent media articles on each would lead people to believe, which is your point as to how each is perceived. 

Having lived in both Cleveland and Pittsburgh the other thing to keep in mind when looking at both of their economies is that Pittsburgh's poverty is concentrated in steel towns along the Mon River, areas that are part of the metro but NOT part of Pittsburgh proper, so the city itself looks healthier.  Cleveland is the opposite, with most poverty concentrated in the city.  If McKeesport and Duquesne, and Alliquippa, and Homestead, and Rankin, and... were part of the city proper Pittsburgh's story would be different.  Great comeback story still, but one with areas of economic distress too, just like Cleveland's comeback story. 

 

I think regionally the economies are actually in quite similar places, but Pittsburgh the city is a much easier sell because the traditional rust belt issues are hidden in towns outside of the city.

 

This is not a Pitt vs. Cle. thing to me. It's just funny how one region is perceived and how their economies actually perform. Pitt has no job growth and a flat labor market while the nation expands around 2%, it's still fading away too, although their leaders are doing more to fix their problems than those in NE Ohio IMHO.

 

Cleveland leaders hide behind CSU studies which show the area has the largest population growth of Master-degree Millennials that are from Indiana and Nebraska who like Bernie Sanders but hate Burger King. Whooo-hoooo! Not really.

 

Also, Cleveland doesn't have a comeback story outside of Downtown, UC, and the near West Side neighborhoods. I really want it too have one but it's not there yet.

 

When Cleveland can go a year beating the national job growth average, I'll say it's on it's way. I don't think the area has done that since the mid-1960s.

 

I agree with you and was trying to make the point that I think both cities economies are actually in a more similar place than recent media articles on each would lead people to believe, which is your point as to how each is perceived. 

 

Yeah, I know. Sorry, I keep amending the post, I dropped your quote.

Local house prices should not be going up, and I would attribute any such gains to market manipulation by the banks.  Job and wage growth should precede growth in housing prices.  When it doesn't that indicates an outside force involved, most likely somebody trying to create a bubble. 

 

Local prices are still significantly lower than the pre-recession peak. They're still lower in most places than they were in 2000. There's nothing particular strange about partial recovery from recession depths, especially as construction remains weak and inventory is culled through mass demolitions.

Local prices are still significantly lower than the pre-recession peak. They're still lower in most places than they were in 2000. There's nothing particular strange about partial recovery from recession depths, especially as construction remains weak and inventory is culled through mass demolitions.

 

Mass abandonment suggests that a proper trough in prices was never reached.  Upward movement while mass abandonment persists is a bubble.  The pre-recession peak never had any validity to begin with, which is why everything crashed.

 

A macro parallel would be Greece and the Euro.  In a truly free market, prices for Greek goods/services/land/currency would drop until it becomes senseless not to buy them, and Greece recovers.  But since there's now an artificial bottom, Greece can't recover.  The supply and demand curves are prevented from meeting, because the true meeting point is beneath the artificial bottom that the Euro creates.  Who benefits?  Germany.  Who's in charge?  Germany.  Not a coincidence.

^The city has torn down over 7,000 properties since the Housing Crisis, so prices are bound to start to raise again due to the glut of supply being alleviated.  Having said that, the city still has about 8,000 more to go before the entire glut of housing is eliminated.  It may not take the entire 8,000 being demoed, however, for investors to begin to rehab what's left. 

 

Having said that- we all know that this recovery is very uneven within the city.  Some neighborhoods will not "come back" at all in our lifetimes unless there is a YUGE amount of job growth in the city.  Neighborhoods around University Circle have a decent chance in the short term of rebounding- especially the areas with large homes along E. 105th (if you've never been, take a ride down a street like Pierpont off of E. 105th- you'd be amazed at the housing stock that's left though it's not in the best condition).  Union Miles, Mt Pleasant, Harvard- these areas probably won't recover until more of the areas are cleared of vacancies.  Jobs were why these neighborhoods began to grow, and are part of the reason why these neighborhoods have declined.   

^Your second paragraph is key here. It's not at all surprising to see continued abandonment in some neighborhoods and rising prices in others, especially in a hyper-segregated metro area. All it suggests is that a plurality of bidders strongly prefer some neighborhoods over others (low substitutability), and an overall supply glut, allowing even poorly paid households to exit the worst neighborhoods.

Yes, land values are very granular.  But we still have too many vacancies in relatively stable areas, and too much un- or under-utilized property in the core.  And it's not like there's any shortage of vacant lots, so I don't believe demo will solve much.  In the case of historic apartment or mixed-use stock, demo can be counterproductive.  That's one of those harmful local policies I was referring to. 

Let's keep it going!

 

Sherwin-Williams acquiring Valspar paints and coatings in $11.3 billion deal

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Cleveland-based Sherwin-Williams Co. has announced it is acquiring the Valspar Corp., a Minneapolis-based global paints and coatings company, in an all-cash deal for $113 per share, or about $11.3 billion.

 

The transaction, which has been unanimously approved by the boards of directors of both companies, would create a global company with combined revenues of about $15.6 billion, adjusted earnings of $2.8 billion, and about 58,000 employees.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/03/sherwin-williams_acquiring_val.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home

I'll comment on the office building implications of this in the Cleveland office thread...

Here's the press release regarding the acquisition....

 

http://investors.valspar.com/investors/news-releases/press-release-details/2016/The-Sherwin-Williams-Company-To-Acquire-Valspar-For-11300-Per-Share-In-Cash-Or-113-Billion/default.aspx

 

Valspar is even older than Sherwin Williams -- by 60 years!

Minnesapolis folks aren't too happy per the comments section:

 

http://m.startribune.com/sherwin-williams-buying-rival-valspar-for-11-3-billion/372847241/

 

Didn't realize they've lost a lot of HQ's in recent history.

Minnesapolis folks aren't too happy per the comments section:

 

http://m.startribune.com/sherwin-williams-buying-rival-valspar-for-11-3-billion/372847241/

 

Didn't realize they've lost a lot of HQ's in recent history.

 

Cleveland has not faired any better. Just off the top of my head the CLE has lost in the last approximately 10 - 20 years, KraftMaid Cabinets, Ameritrust, NCC (Nat. City Bank), Office Max, Revco, BP America, TRW, Charter One, MBNA, Glidden, Real Living (Realty One). And this does not include the co's lost in the Akron area.

 

The good news though is that three of the CLE's largest based co's in the last year have now bought other co's; Sherwin Williams buying Valspar, Medical Mutual buying 105,000 HealthSpan customer accts, and Key Corp's acquisition of First Niagara Bank.

If SHW didn't announce the HQ building at the sales meeting in January because of the uncertainty of space needs from the pending acquisition of Valspar, then it is possible that we may not hear anything about a new tower until the Justice Department's anti-trust review of the Valspar buy is substantially complete. That could take much of 2016. However, the space needs with/without Valspar aren't significantly different. So it may be more likely that the non-announcement in January was due to SHW executives merely being focused on Valspar. If so, then we may hear something soon about a new tower.

Minnesapolis folks aren't too happy per the comments section:

 

http://m.startribune.com/sherwin-williams-buying-rival-valspar-for-11-3-billion/372847241/

 

Didn't realize they've lost a lot of HQ's in recent history.

 

Cleveland has not faired any better. Just off the top of my head the CLE has lost in the last approximately 10 - 20 years, KraftMaid Cabinets, Ameritrust, NCC (Nat. City Bank), Office Max, Revco, BP America, TRW, Charter One, MBNA, Glidden, Real Living (Realty One). And this does not include the co's lost in the Akron area.

 

The good news though is that three of the CLE's largest based co's in the last year have now bought other co's; Sherwin Williams buying Valspar, Medical Mutual buying 105,000 HealthSpan customer accts, and Key Corp's acquisition of First Niagara Bank.

 

They are correct about CEOs influencing locations.

 

 

Nestle USA went from NYC to Cleveland when Jim Biggar took over.  When he retired and the head of Carnation took charge it went to LA.

Interesting read from the demographics guru...

 

Cleveland's future - reaching beyond the distress: Richey Piiparinen (Opinion)

By Guest Columnist/cleveland.com

on March 20, 2016 at 5:40 AM, updated March 20, 2016 at 5:41 AM

 

The number of households in Cleveland proper making less than $25,000 a year increased by 11 percent from 2007 to 2014, while the number making more than $100,000 annually increased by 57 percent — a gain of 4,200 households.

 

A recent Brookings Institution study found that Seattle and Cleveland ranked 1st and 2nd, respectively, in the largest increase in highest-income households from 2012 to 2013. Yet here we are: tops in concentration of economically distressed.

 

MORE:

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/03/clevelands_future_-_beyond_bei.html#incart_river_index