July 17, 20204 yr 15 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said: That’s such a BS line, and I really wish people would stop saying it What other explanations would you offer for the inequality? Why can we finance a Medical Mart or Q renovation (now completely useless!) but not investment in the southeast neighborhoods?
July 17, 20204 yr 2 minutes ago, Cavalier Attitude said: What other explanations would you offer for the inequality? Why can we finance a Medical Mart or Q renovation (now completely useless!) but not investment in the southeast neighborhoods? On the whole, I agree. But playing devil's advocate, the city has poured millions into Slavic Village (S. Broadway) over the better part of 10 years and he's seen little ROI.
July 17, 20204 yr I understand and share the frustration. The neighborhoods are in dire need of investment. But we need a strong core to anchor the neighborhoods. I think we are starting to see a pivot in the city's (still limited) resources to the neighborhoods now that the core is stronger. Great example is the mayor's public-private initiative that is investing in Clark-Fulton and Glenville now. We are already seeing that pay off in Glenville in particular. This argument would have been better 4-5 years ago when pretty much all the resources were going downtown, but the city has since pivoted to other areas. This frustration is better directed at the city only having the resources to focus on 2-3 neighborhoods at a time.
July 17, 20204 yr I think you're going to see more spillover from UC into Hough and Glenville from the Greater Circle Living initiative. It's just starting and it's already starting to produce lots of new projects and proposals. Most haven't started construction yet, but I except some of them will. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 17, 20204 yr 1 minute ago, PoshSteve said: I understand and share the frustration. The neighborhoods are in dire need of investment. But we need a strong core to anchor the neighborhoods. One thing I've always found fascinating with Cleveland is there's not a single perceived "good" neighborhood that doesn't border a perceived "bad" one. The perception of being unsafe costs the city a lot of investors, I am sure of it.
July 17, 20204 yr Author I don't know if I would say there hasn't been any public investment within the southeast neighborhoods. Your typical Cleveland Double costs the City $10,000.00 to demolish, which includes asbestos abatement. There will come a point where enough vacant properties have been demolished as to where the private sector will take a bet on investing. The southeast side of the city was hit the hardest during the Foreclosure Crisis and many properties remain standing which need to be torn down. E. 117th between Kinsman and Union is a prime example; there may be five families left on the street; but the street itself has many vacant standing structures. Same with E. 113th and Union. Homes in the area have negative equity just based on the sheer amount of abandonment surrounding them. Each demolition brings the properties which have families in them back to a point where the family may be able to take out a loan for rehab. That's the positive to demolitions. The negative, of course, is the loss of density. Many don't view the clearing of blighted properties as an investment of public dollars, but demos assist in the overall process of bringing private dollars back to the city. Some neighborhoods are closer to that point than others. Harvard east of about E. 147th is still solid. Streets off of E. 116th are hit-or-miss; Holborn Ave. is still solid, along with Corlett for the most part. There's a lot which remains to be done, however, before the private sector begins to kick in like we've seen in the inner west-side neighborhoods.
July 17, 20204 yr 34 minutes ago, surfohio said: One thing I've always found fascinating with Cleveland is there's not a single perceived "good" neighborhood that doesn't border a perceived "bad" one. The perception of being unsafe costs the city a lot of investors, I am sure of it. I would say Ohio City will likely in 5-10 years be that neighborhood. MetroHealth wants to invest heavily in Clark-Fulton. That should help change things radically. The whole near west side keeps growing and the property values keep going up comparatively.
July 17, 20204 yr 56 minutes ago, surfohio said: One thing I've always found fascinating with Cleveland is there's not a single perceived "good" neighborhood that doesn't border a perceived "bad" one. The perception of being unsafe costs the city a lot of investors, I am sure of it. I had family living in Washington and Philadelphia in the late 1980s and early 90s. When I visited, I always amazed at how if you went a few blocks in the "wrong" direction, you went from a neighborhood of beautiful townhouses worth a lot of money to a neighborhood of crime and decay. The proximity of these extremes was incredible. One can see that now on the south side of Ohio City, the west side of Detroit-Shoreway or the areas north of University Circle. I'd say to the south of UC but there's nothing there anymore. Just a blank canvas that the OC slices through. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 17, 20204 yr ^ Indeed those spots of Philly and D.C. were truly eye-opening experiences as a kid in the late 70's/early 80's. If I were only going by the above map I'd say Cudell looks like a good bet for investment. Of course we know maps and colors don't necessarily paint a complete picture of reality. Also it's going to be interesting to see how much will change along Detroit Ave between Lakewood and Gordon Square in the next few years. Some of that stretch has a real "no man's land" vibe going on. Edited July 18, 20204 yr by surfohio
July 17, 20204 yr 41 minutes ago, surfohio said: Also it's going to be interested to see how much will change along Detroit Ave between Gordon Square in the next few years. Some of that stretch has a real "no man's land" vibe going on. TOD at West Blvd and Detroit would do wonders for extending the development.
July 17, 20204 yr 9 minutes ago, Cleburger said: TOD at West Blvd and Detroit would do wonders for extending the development. the dog kennel site was a missed opportunity.
July 17, 20204 yr 2 hours ago, PoshSteve said: I understand and share the frustration. The neighborhoods are in dire need of investment. But we need a strong core to anchor the neighborhoods. I think we are starting to see a pivot in the city's (still limited) resources to the neighborhoods now that the core is stronger. Great example is the mayor's public-private initiative that is investing in Clark-Fulton and Glenville now. We are already seeing that pay off in Glenville in particular. This argument would have been better 4-5 years ago when pretty much all the resources were going downtown, but the city has since pivoted to other areas. This frustration is better directed at the city only having the resources to focus on 2-3 neighborhoods at a time. A couple of years ago in his "State of the City" speech, the Mayor was facing criticism for where the money was going. He said (paraphrasing), "One dollar invested downtown pays back eight; one dollar invested in the neighborhoods pays back four. We don't have a lot of dollars." Then the next year he announced Circle North, plus investments in Clark-Fulton and Slavic Village - but they were fairly modest. Based on good results from the first two initiatives, we'll probably see a continued stream of modest but meaningful seed investments in the neighborhoods, enough to blunt the criticism, anyway. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
July 17, 20204 yr 8 minutes ago, freefourur said: the dog kennel site was a missed opportunity. They could have made it a more public-interactive space to promote animal welfare and generate revenues, like a cat cafe or something. But absolutely a missed opportunity.
July 17, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, surfohio said: ^ Indeed those spots of Philly and D.C. were truly eye-opening experiences as a kid in the late 70's/early 80's. If I were only going by the above map I'd say Cudell looks like a good bet for investment. Of course we know maps and colors don't necessarily paint a complete picture of reality. Also it's going to be interested to see how much will change along Detroit Ave between Gordon Square in the next few years. Some of that stretch has a real "no man's land" vibe going on. Cudell is my bet as well. You're seeing the first wave of renovations start in that neighborhood. Tons of houses with great bones, just need new paint and cosmetic updates. It's still rough on the edges, but the value you can find in that neighborhood is like nothing else in the city imo.
July 19, 20204 yr On 7/17/2020 at 11:44 AM, KJP said: I had family living in Washington and Philadelphia in the late 1980s and early 90s. When I visited, I always amazed at how if you went a few blocks in the "wrong" direction, you went from a neighborhood of beautiful townhouses worth a lot of money to a neighborhood of crime and decay. The proximity of these extremes was incredible. One can see that now on the south side of Ohio City, the west side of Detroit-Shoreway or the areas north of University Circle. I'd say to the south of UC but there's nothing there anymore. Just a blank canvas that the OC slices through. I feel like that is where Cleveland is actually more like the east coast than any of its peer cities west. Cities like Detroit, St Louis, and Chicago used urban renewal much more aggressivley to create superblock high rises of public housing intentionally disconnected from the city that nobody had to live that close to. Detroit (Brewster Douglas), St Louis(Pruitt Igoe), Chicago (Cabrini Green, Stateway Gardens, Robert Taylor). Those were all miserable failures. Cleveland never did this, there are no nationally famous "notorious" housing projects in Cleveland, and few high rises. The blight in Cleveland is more of a creep, like Philly, Baltimore, DC and Pittsburgh....block by block. I see that as a good thing actually, I'd rather have rough neigborhoods next to good ones than all of it gone. The fact that Lakeview Terrace and Riverview cohabitate somewhat peacefully in the west bank flats/Ohio City is quite remarkable, and more like NYC. Edited July 19, 20204 yr by metrocity
July 25, 20204 yr Crain's (MJarboe's) article on tax abatement makes the full study sound promising. I look forward to reading it. A cap on abatements - the article suggests the first $300K of improvement value) is probably a good idea. I hope it gets indexed to property values; or it will quickly become meaningless. We in for some inflation, methinks. They need to look at a constant-yield mechanism for the total tax as well; the rate is already pretty high - IMO high enough to prevent inflation-matching appreciation. https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/cleveland-abatement-study-recommends-value-caps-other-changes-highlights-bigger-housing Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
July 26, 20204 yr On 7/16/2020 at 6:28 PM, inlovewithCLE said: That’s such a BS line, and I really wish people would stop saying it It was a line used A LOT back in the 70s. Roldo Bartimole comes to mind whenever I hear it.
July 28, 20204 yr This is an amazing number and I'm astonished that the tax revenues have come in as strong as they did.... https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/07/cuyahoga-county-executive-armond-budish-administrations-tax-collection-projections-a-big-swing-and-a-miss-councilman-says.html?outputType=amp "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 28, 20204 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 28, 20204 yr ^ I was at the gym when I saw it come on the tv with an update to that story (I think it was channel 5, but I'm not seeing it on their website right now) that the layoffs actually happened in April, and a number of the workers were already brought back. The tv was too far away for me to read the number very well, but it was in the triple digits.
July 29, 20204 yr 14 hours ago, PoshSteve said: ^ I was at the gym when I saw it come on the tv with an update to that story (I think it was channel 5, but I'm not seeing it on their website right now) that the layoffs actually happened in April, and a number of the workers were already brought back. The tv was too far away for me to read the number very well, but it was in the triple digits. I have a friend that works there and this is what I've seen with him. He was laid off early in the pandemic, but is back to work there currently.
July 29, 20204 yr AmeriSave Mortgage hiring up to 300 people in Cleveland: https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2020/07/28/amerisave-mortgage-to-hire-up-to-300.html?ana=cleveland
July 29, 20204 yr 15 minutes ago, skiwest said: AmeriSave Mortgage hiring up to 300 people in Cleveland: https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2020/07/28/amerisave-mortgage-to-hire-up-to-300.html?ana=cleveland Mortgage companies seem to be doing extremely well here - is this global or specific to Cleveland for some reason
July 29, 20204 yr 6 minutes ago, bjk said: It's a great time to re-finance everywhere I get the impression @YABO713 was referencing the actual mortgage industry and it's strong presence in town not individual homeowners.
July 29, 20204 yr 8 minutes ago, Htsguy said: I get the impression @YABO713 was referencing the actual mortgage industry and it's strong presence in town not individual homeowners. Correct
July 29, 20204 yr 2 hours ago, skiwest said: AmeriSave Mortgage hiring up to 300 people in Cleveland: https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2020/07/28/amerisave-mortgage-to-hire-up-to-300.html?ana=cleveland It's not just Cleveland; they have six mortgage loan processing centers and plan to hire as many as 2,000 nation-wide. So it's very good, but not great news. https://www.amerisave.com/amerisave-mortgage-corporation-plans-to-hire-more-than-2000-new-team-members-by-the-end-of-2020/ Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
July 29, 20204 yr 22 hours ago, KJP said: Arcelor previously in May laid off more than 1200 at their Chicago-area IL and IN mills. They spared Cleveland (about 200 laid off previously) as long as they could. Cleveland is said to be their highest quality production facility. The story goes that when Arcelor bought ISG (the Cleveland mill) they moved the headquarters to Chicago and tried to close Cleveland. The customers DEMANDED steel from the Cleveland mill and they rethought their plans. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
July 29, 20204 yr ^This is true. Cleveland operations are one of the most productive steel plants in the world. The fact that even they are being hurt by all of this is a telling sign of the world economy
July 29, 20204 yr 2 minutes ago, YO to the CLE said: ^This is true. Cleveland operations are one of the most productive steel plants in the world. The fact that even they are being hurt by all of this is a telling sign of the world economy To emphasize this point - I was in Italy last summer and sparked up a conversation with a man in construction from the Provence region of France. When we said we were from Cleveland, he said his vendors at work all talk about the steel mills there. To be fair - there was more substance to the conversation, but I was ♾️ wines deep and can't really remember.
July 29, 20204 yr 50 minutes ago, Dougal said: Arcelor previously in May laid off more than 1200 at their Chicago-area IL and IN mills. They spared Cleveland (about 200 laid off previously) as long as they could. Cleveland is said to be their highest quality production facility. The story goes that when Arcelor bought ISG (the Cleveland mill) they moved the headquarters to Chicago and tried to close Cleveland. The customers DEMANDED steel from the Cleveland mill and they rethought their plans. My dad worked at ISG/Arcelor at that time. He loved telling this story.
August 4, 20204 yr The saga continues: FBI raids offices at downtown One Cleveland Center building tied to Ukrainian oligarch https://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/2020/08/fbi-raids-offices-at-downtown-one-cleveland-center-building-tied-to-ukrainian-oligarch.html I’m relieved this operation has already sold most of its Cleveland assets. “CLEVELAND, Ohio — The FBI on Tuesday raided the offices of a downtown Cleveland real estate company that owns several buildings in the city. FBI agent Vicki Anderson said agents searched the offices of the Optima Management Group at One Cleveland Center. Optima is a conglomerate of companies across the United States that has interests in real estate in Cleveland, including One Cleveland Center and the 55 Building on Public Square. Anderson said agents also have served search warrants in Miami.“ When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
August 6, 20204 yr Author Good news about Colossal Cupcake- Colossal Cupcakes is rebuilding its downtown Cleveland store and adding a second Updated 2:23 PM; Today 2:22 PM By Mary Vanac | Cleveland Business Journal https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/08/colossal-cupcakes-is-rebuilding-its-downtown-cleveland-store-and-adding-a-second.html
August 6, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, Oldmanladyluck said: Good news about Colossal Cupcake- Colossal Cupcakes is rebuilding its downtown Cleveland store and adding a second Updated 2:23 PM; Today 2:22 PM By Mary Vanac | Cleveland Business Journal https://www.cleveland.com/news/2020/08/colossal-cupcakes-is-rebuilding-its-downtown-cleveland-store-and-adding-a-second.html Hate how everything is paywalled now! But good news nonetheless.
August 7, 20204 yr On 7/19/2020 at 2:33 AM, metrocity said: I feel like that is where Cleveland is actually more like the east coast than any of its peer cities west. Cities like Detroit, St Louis, and Chicago used urban renewal much more aggressivley to create superblock high rises of public housing intentionally disconnected from the city that nobody had to live that close to. Detroit (Brewster Douglas), St Louis(Pruitt Igoe), Chicago (Cabrini Green, Stateway Gardens, Robert Taylor). Those were all miserable failures. Cleveland never did this, there are no nationally famous "notorious" housing projects in Cleveland, and few high rises. The blight in Cleveland is more of a creep, like Philly, Baltimore, DC and Pittsburgh....block by block. I see that as a good thing actually, I'd rather have rough neigborhoods next to good ones than all of it gone. The fact that Lakeview Terrace and Riverview cohabitate somewhat peacefully in the west bank flats/Ohio City is quite remarkable, and more like NYC. Cleveland (CMHD) had a concentration of public housing between Woodland and Central or Hough Aves., from around E. 22nd to E. 30th Sts. They weren't massive high-rises, but they were 4-5 stories, pretty dense and pretty contained . I'm not sure of their current status, but they were regionally notorious; drug infested and dangerous in the 80s. Edited August 7, 20204 yr by Frmr CLEder
August 14, 20204 yr From Brookings and the impact and recovery from Covid for CLE (and similar cities): Also known as “older industrial” cities, these are places like Detroit, Cleveland, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, and Buffalo and Rochester, N.Y. ....Legacy cities are likely to suffer more deeply from the COVID-19 pandemic. They have high concentrations of residents vulnerable to the disease itself, due to underlying health conditions, inadequate access to good health care, and other environmental factors. Legacy cities also have fragile economies with long-standing structural weaknesses that expose them to more severe initial impacts and complicate their path to recovery...." https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-perils-and-promise-of-americas-legacy-cities-in-the-pandemic-era
August 15, 20204 yr I think this extremely hard to gauge as an overall regional indicator other than adding more illness to a region that has a plethora of issues is obviously not helpful. How it ends up affecting the region depends on leadership and how well the region masks up. Benefit I got from this article is I think the ‘rust belt’ moniker is finally going by the wayside. Maybe covid will finally kill that off.
August 15, 20204 yr Fund That Flip, in the Inc5000 growth list, places 647th out of 5000 with a growth rate of 724%. Inc Magazine lists the headquarters as Cleveland, not New York. At the company's website listed job openings, including a Senior Vice President, are all in Cleveland. I believe their hqs is still officially NYC, but maybe that is going to change. Their CEO is a John Carroll graduate. ? Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
August 15, 20204 yr 2 minutes ago, Dougal said: Fund That Flip, in the Inc5000 growth list, places 647th out of 5000 with a growth rate of 724%. Inc Magazine lists the headquarters as Cleveland, not New York. At the company's website listed job openings, including a Senior Vice President, are all in Cleveland. I believe their hqs is still officially NYC, but maybe that is going to change. Their CEO is a John Carroll graduate. ? Cool. So where are they going to build their gleaming new corporate/administrative HQ?? ? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 15, 20204 yr I hope they are fully a CLE headquartered company. Looking at their webpage, they list CLE (E. 9 St.) and NY addresses. I like their concept. But what struck me is their group photo "about us"....such incredible racial diversity: https://www.fundthatflip.com/about-us
August 15, 20204 yr BTW, getting news that the Marble Room may not reopen. And it may not have so much to do with the pandemic. It's why I'm posting it here rather than in the Cleveland restaurant thread. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 15, 20204 yr Wow that is really too bad... it’s such an incredible space. Not sure what else can even go there?
August 15, 20204 yr 4 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said: Wow that is really too bad... it’s such an incredible space. Not sure what else can even go there? Another restaurant will surely go in there. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 15, 20204 yr It would actually make a great event space, especially for weddings. It would, however, be a shame to have it empty so much of the time if it were used for that.
August 15, 20204 yr ^I really hope it doesn't become another event/wedding - only place, as that space is then lost to the public (whether or not they can afford it). I hope it becomes another restaurant of some type.
August 17, 20204 yr NYT article: "The Recession Is About to Slam Cities. Not Just the Blue-State Ones." Where does Cleveland fall in terms of impact? The article lists Columbus, but not Cleveland--very annoying. Am I missing it? Is the full data set shown somewhere else? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/upshot/pandemic-recession-cities-fiscal-shortfall.html
August 17, 20204 yr What's more annoying is I can't read the article because I'm not an NYT subscriber.
August 17, 20204 yr 6 minutes ago, skiwest said: What's more annoying is I can't read the article because I'm not an NYT subscriber. Here is the main graphic accompanying the article. Maybe Cleveland is in better shape? Though I find that hard to believe...
August 17, 20204 yr The city's income tax revenue in 2019 was higher than the city's budget estimates, but even that estimate was more than 35 percent higher than it was just four years earlier. I would hope the city has a cushion/rainy day fund from this huge increase in revenue. http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/12/cleveland-got-lot-wealthier-in-just-3.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 17, 20204 yr 12 minutes ago, KJP said: The city's income tax revenue in 2019 was higher than the city's budget estimates, but even that estimate was more than 35 percent higher than it was just four years earlier. I would hope the city has a cushion/rainy day fund from this huge increase in revenue. http://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2019/12/cleveland-got-lot-wealthier-in-just-3.html I would almost assume that they do. The city tends to be very conservative with their finances, almost to a fault.
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