If Cleveland Clinic can attract international talent

 

Actually the Clinic struggles with attracting talent. 

Data? Examples?

Their employees don't have the Friday off after Thanksgiving. .

Ummm......fundamentally, they are in retail.  Of course they don't have that day off.

 

Seattle also artificially increased their minimum wage.

Their employees don't have the Friday off after Thanksgiving. .

Ummm......fundamentally, they are in retail.  Of course they don't have that day off.

 

Seattle also artificially increased their minimum wage.

 

Ummm, so how is an engineer or program manager working in AWS in retail? Or a producer working in Amazon Video? Or a buyer working in Amazon music?

 

Artificially? Huh? And what does minimum wage have to do with anything? The 50k jobs have an average wage of $100k.

Their employees don't have the Friday off after Thanksgiving. .

Ummm......fundamentally, they are in retail.  Of course they don't have that day off.

 

Seattle also artificially increased their minimum wage.

 

Ummm, so how is an engineer or program manager working in AWS in retail? Or a producer working in Amazon Video? Or a music curator working in Amazon music?

 

Artificially? Huh? And what does minimum wage have to do with anything? The 50k jobs have an average wage of $100k.

 

It's mind blowing to me that one would assume that Amazon jobs are in "retail" - and it's that lack of knowledge which would hamper many of these less educated and techie cities from drawing Amazon.

Sorry, I Went West, but I spoke with someone today who is familiar with Amazon HQ2 search. He says Cleveland or any major city with a strong, growing urban core, a tech community and good universities turning out internationally competitive talent (CWRU etc), and an emphasis on sustainability has a good shot of winning. The incentives package will determine the winner from among these competitors. Word is that Bezos is pissed off at Seattle City officials for increasing business taxes and his public HQ2 competition is part PR for Amazon and also to rub Seattle City officials' noses in the search.

 

Sorry KJP, but I've worked at Amazon, live in downtown Seattle, know many working at Amazon, and have monthly meetings on the Amazon campus.

 

Amazon is maxed out in Seattle. Until you actually see it, it's hard to believe how many buildings are required to hold 50k employees. Bezos and Amazon make their own rules. Building a HQ2 is smart - it gives you leverage once HQ2 is up and running to use the two cities against each other with the threat of fully moving to the other. He's such a visionary that I bet he's already thinking about a HQ3.

 

The main goal with HQ2 is to attract employees that aren't interested in moving to Seattle. And you know what the average age is at the Seattle HQ? About 30 years old. Think cities with a younger population. Cities with outdoor activities. Cities with good weather. Cities with a night life. Cities with other companies to move to once you're done with Amazon (as of last year the average employee stayed two years). The average employee at Amazon doesn't care about buying a house, settling down, starting a family, and staying at the company for 30 years. It's all about having a good time and growing your career. To do that you need a strong tech community outside Amazon.

 

Amazon sees HQ2 as an opportunity to move to another city and poach some talent. They've hired everyone they're wanted from Microsoft. It's time to move to another city and steal talent from another companies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've seen it. And the area is far from built out. The area just to the east is underdeveloped.

 

And Amazon isn't in retail? Are you sure you're working for the same Amazon that we're all talking about here?  :| And yes, Bezos is pissed off at Seattle city government....

 

https://totalwealthresearch.com/2017/09/amazon-just-sent-a-message-to-every-tax-happy-politician-in-the-world/

 

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazons-announcement-of-hq-outside-of-seattle-sends-ripples-through-states-political-circles/

Don't you think that since Amazon has purchased North Randall Mall, they've already begun development and a push to Cleveland? Maybe a pipe dream? Precursor?

No. They have fulfillment centers in most major metropolitan areas.

Worth a shot.. hah!

I've seen it. And the area is far from built out. The area just to the east is underdeveloped.

 

And Amazon isn't in retail? Are you sure you're working for the same Amazon that we're all talking about here?  :| And yes, Bezos is pissed off at Seattle city government....

 

https://totalwealthresearch.com/2017/09/amazon-just-sent-a-message-to-every-tax-happy-politician-in-the-world/

 

http://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazons-announcement-of-hq-outside-of-seattle-sends-ripples-through-states-political-circles/

 

Walmart has management meetings on Saturday at 7am.  Why?  Because they're in retail.  Amazon is very aware they are too.

 

I doubt anyone in the company has "Black Friday" off.

 

Minimum wage might not apply to tech/management people.  But it does apply to many of the employees in a headquarters.

 

And yes, management decisions get made because CEOs get POed at cities.  Peter Lewis cancelled plans to move Progressive into a downtown tower mainly because the city blocked plans for it to include integral parking.  Also, there's Dan Gilbert.

 

Anyone else notice that he's not requiring an urban setting?

New and hopefully improved. (interesting how many parcels are owned by the same companies -- K&D owns Terminal Tower, the ex-Post Office and the triangle at the corner of Superior/Prospect)....

 

EDIT: here's the two-page PDF -- http://freepdfhosting.com/5cd3eef25b.pdf

 

amazon hq2-siteplan01s by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

 

amazon hq2-siteplan02s by Ken Prendergast, on Flickr

^LOVE to see the old Ameritrust Tower plan revived.

The Cleveland.com article on Cleveland's suitability for Amazon mentioned Frank Jackson has not commented or released any official determination on chasing this project.  I actually found a link to Frank Jackson's plan right here:  http://www.this-page-intentionally-left-blank.org

 

In absence of an aggressive, go-getting mayor, has anyone seen any plans or even statements out of CLE +, NOACA, etc? 

If Cleveland was to somehow land AMZN HQ2 I would have to think the Superior Subway (Detroit/Lorain loop) as well as the Waterfront line extension (downtown loop) would have to be in the cards for immediate rail expansion.

I know for a fact that Downtown Cleveland Alliance is all over trying to make this happen and put together a presentation.

I know for a fact that Downtown Cleveland Alliance is all over trying to make this happen and put together a presentation.

 

I made a post in the Skyscraperpage basically making a brag sheet for Cleveland, because Cleveland was the forbidden city of the thread. They put the thread on hold due to boosterism, but I cant see why that would be an issue discussing which cities have which factors that would allow Amazon to consider HQ2.

 

Anyways here was the list. I think we have the better hand out of either Chicago, New York, Detroit, and Pittsburgh.

 

I think Cleveland would be a great fit for HQ2. Here are some of the things they considered requirements, and additional factors that Cleveland fulfills as a bidding city.

==========================================================

 

-Cleveland has plenty of low cost land for development. 500,000 + sq/ft requirement and up to 8,000,000 + sq/ft expansion/phase II.

 

-Has a metropolitan area population of around 2.077 million people.

 

-Cleveland is sustainable with increasing residential additions to the city, closing the ratio between business to resident.

 

-Cleveland also has a booming residential industry, going through a renaissance.

 

-They could find plenty of room to develop with the vast amount of surface lots.

 

-Plenty of Renovated buildings for both office and residential.

 

-Awesome regional public transport including light rail/metro from airport and Medical district, with countywide busing courtesy of the GCRTA.

 

-Two world class hospitals right down the road. Three major hospital systems within the city. University Hospital, Cleveland Clinic, and Metro Hospital.

 

-Amazon loves clean energy, Cleveland will be the first city in the world to be home to the first wind farm in fresh water over Lake Erie with cutting edge Ice Breaker foundations.

 

-Two public universities/colleges and three private universities/institutes. This specializes technical jobs within the vicinity of Cleveland Amazon needs.

 

-Great means of entertainment downtown with the second largest functioning theater district in the U.S. Three major sports teams, two minor teams as well. Including beach fronts, Wildlife reserves (Cleveland Metroparks), and bike paths. Science, History, and art museums. Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Nearby 45 minute to an hour drive to Cedar Point, Cuyahoga Valley National Park, and Blossom Music Center Amphitheater.

 

-Lots of world renown restaurants and food. Not to mention a large market district in a neighborhood called "Ohio City".

 

-Major port city for large freight with connection to the Great lakes which means freight can easily be transported into Canada via great lakes up through Montreal, Toronto, and Ottowa. Can easily access rust belt cities such as Buffalo, Rochester, Erie, Sandusky, Toledo, Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, Green Bay. There are connections to the Mississippi through Canals built to the Ohio and Illinois and Michigan Canals.

Vast amount of Rail-Road connections to most surrounding Rust Belt Cities like Pittsburgh, Detroit, Columbus, Akron/Canton, and Toledo.

 

-Two major highways run from Cleveland to southern states I-77 to Columbia, SC and I-71 to Louisville, KY. Two from east to west one of which is a turnpike I-90 from Boston, MA to Seattle, WA and Ohio Tpke I-80 from New York, NY to San Francisco, CA with several highway connections around the city I-480, I-490, and I-271. All highways are easily accessible at least 2 miles from downtown

 

-At&t are planting fiber connections throughout the city

 

-Could be great business partners with Sherwin Williams, their HQ is right down the street where the iconic LeBron mural hangs.

 

==========================================================

 

Believe it or not Cleveland is a Central Hub with plenty of Wiggle Room. Plenty of room to develop, with plenty of accommodations city-wise and transport wise. Amazon has recently bought and committed to creating a fulfillment center just southeast of Cleveland in an abandoned mall. It seems like it would make the most sense to setup their HQ2 in Cleveland. They built themselves an empire in Seattle and they have outgrown their shells, a place with plenty of developmental room which lies so close together sounds like something Cleveland was destined for.

That thread is over the top and there were many similar posts. The fact is that there are many cities that can fit Amazon's needs.

While I think CLE would possibly be a good fit for HQ2...I don't think the N Randall news makes a bit of a difference at all...Amazon is building these centers everywhere around the country.  I just drove past one near Kenosha WI this morning...doesn't mean that MKE is any more (or less) a legit contender for the HQ.

I do remember that we weren't supposed to get the Rock Hall either.

I do remember that we weren't supposed to get the Rock Hall either.

 

Or the Republican Convention

I do remember that we weren't supposed to get the Rock Hall either.

 

Or the Republican Convention

 

And there's no way in Pitt....errr.....Hades LeBron was coming back.

I think "I Went West" makes solid points about why Cleveland's chances are slim, but I don't think that we have absolutely no chance (and it doesn't hurt to have a positive outlook about this).

 

To me, the obvious choices are cities like Denver, Dallas, Atlanta, and maybe Boston. I'm basing this on the typical metrics that corporations use when choosing a new HQ locations (metro size, growth rates, airports, and of course the existing workforce in the tech sector). However, I think those rules for choosing HQ locations are slowly changing as our world is becoming more interconnected. It is easier to get up and move to other parts of the country than it was in the past. It's also now much easier to recruit talent from other parts of the country. In this regard, there are actually a lot of positives on Cleveland's side.

 

One positive is the low cost of living. For example, I know that Cleveland-based Explorys (now part of IBM Watson Health) uses Cleveland's low cost of living as a recruiting tool around the country. Amazon employees' salaries would go much farther in Cleveland than in a city like Denver. Another positive is the availability of prime real estate in the core of the city. Amazon would pay much less for a new HQ in Cleveland, especially if they partially utilize existing buildings such as May Co or Post Office buildings.

 

I really do think Cleveland has a chance if Amazon is going to consider these aforementioned factors instead of just the typical ones. It's an uphill battle, but it's possible.

I love the positivity, but landing a tourism destination like the Rock Hall just requires political glad-handing. Amazon is going to get billions in direct subsidies from the state, county, and city. And probably billions more indirectly for local infrastructure and education. And that assumes your metro meets their other requirements, like transit and economic growth.

 

Serious question, not a plug: But can anyone else offer Amazon virtually 6-10 city blocks (in a safe area) for next to nothing in a metro area of 2,000,000+? I know Detroit and Pittsburgh could also come up swinging with land, but Detroit would probably be considerably less desirable than Cleveland and Pitt.

Detroit is a place they might go to for huge headlines.

If Bezos is complaining about taxes, then he obviously cares how much land costs.

That would be an enormous kick to the local economy. There will probably be 3-5 residential towers. The 2nd phase of the casino would probably start.

Detroit is a place they might go to for huge headlines.

 

Bezos could not care less if people believe he's philanthropic

^^^Plenty of cities have massive open space they could feasibly gift to Amazon.

 

For example: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-62-downtown-acres-0512-biz-20160511-story.html

 

It's just sitting there doing NOTHING. 62 vacant acres in Chicago's South Loop extending from Roosevelt to Chinatown.

 

 

That Chicago site is surprisingly inaccessible by transit. The Roosevelt Road L stop is only a couple of blocks away from the northernmost portion of the site, but I'm pretty sure the northernmost portion of this site is already spoken for in terms of new users/tenants. Once you get south of that, it is a long walk to the nearest transit stops, including at Cermak/Chinatown which is a mile south of the southernmost edge of this development site. Cleveland's Superblock has that site beat in terms of transit access and cost. And I'll bet it's better in terms of fiber/telcom connectivity.

Serious question, not a plug: But can anyone else offer Amazon virtually 6-10 city blocks (in a safe area) for next to nothing in a metro area of 2,000,000+? I know Detroit and Pittsburgh could also come up swinging with land, but Detroit would probably be considerably less desirable than Cleveland and Pitt.

 

Cleveland's got a fighting chance, but Detroit's airport would likely be one advantage over Cleveland.

You guys are greatly underestimating the amount of space Amazon is looking for. When they're done building out within the next five years in Seattle they'll have 12 million square feet within the downtown area. And they're looking for HQ2 to be equal to what they'll have in Seattle

 

That's nearly TEN Key Towers.

 

^ Available space downtown is not going to be the issue that prevents CLE from getting the HQ2

You guys are greatly underestimating the amount of space Amazon is looking for. When they're done building out within the next five years in Seattle they'll have 12 million square feet within the downtown area. And they're looking for HQ2 to be equal to what they'll have in Seattle

 

That's nearly TEN Key Towers.

 

 

Everything I put into that conceptual site plan took into consideration Amazon's stated needs (5 million square feet) as well as expansion beyond phase 3. The Justice Center block is massive, as is the area between Huron Road and Canal Road. Those can easily accommodate another 7 million square feet.

Cleveland will submit a competitive bid for the Amazon headquarters.  DCA & GCP are evaluating several sites, such as Weston's superblock, and will soon support a single location and facilitate the bid.  The state and county will need to step to the table to create a compelling proposal. This should be interesting!

Just a thought,...could concourse D be repurposed and utilized for Amazon's sole use?

This should probably go into the business thread. Although I think we have the upper hand advantage having immediate access via freight through the Great Lakes and Canals to the Ohio.

If Amazon builds HQ2 in Cleveland, I think they'd be extremely happy to have close neighbors with the majority of Canadian major population centers. Cleveland has a market for property right now. Demand is growing, so prices for their 500,000 sq/ft facilities would probably be a tough find. I imagine they want their facilities within the same block close to transportation which would be best for the Super Block, but I'm afraid its not enough space for the long run. We could start a rapid line to the steelyards and lease property there (probably not a good idea anyways), maybe some of Scranton peninsula or surface lots that create vacant space between CSU's Rhodes tower and the Erieview block. They could probably make some space closer to University Circle, it would be nice to have sort of a secondary Cleveland skyline kind of like Toronto with Mississauga, and New York with Newark. UC is booming in economic growth, even if healthcare just isn't settled yet. There's a lot of potential there.

Given the amount of city income taxes Amazon would generate, I would hope the city is part of the incentives process including a TIF to support any infrastructure and transportation improvements. RTA could also be involved since Amazon proposes to buy $40 million worth of employee passes which, when combined with city income taxes, can support a significant enhancement of transit services to the Amazon site. For example, an Avenue District site could involve an extension of the Waterfront Line into a downtown loop that would cost about $150 million to $200 million to build and up to $5 million per year for operations & maintenance. Or, my proposal for the Weston Superblock involves an underground promenade below West Superior and along/below Prospect (which is just a bridge through the Tower City area) into the Tower City station. That's probably a $20 million to $30 million project with O&M costing about $1 million per year (which could be sustained by advertising and retail tenants along the underground promenade).

I think the coolest thing we could do is create a grassroots movement to support the bid. Have an amazon-themed party downtown, have the dog pound hold up a sign during a browns game, get Great Lakes to come out with an Amazon Ale, and throw a yard sign on every property in cleveland. That sign of overwhelming community support could really help push otherwise equal bids over the edge

This should probably go into the business thread. Although I think we have the upper hand advantage having immediate access via freight through the Great Lakes and Canals to the Ohio.

If Amazon builds HQ2 in Cleveland, I think they'd be extremely happy to have close neighbors with the majority of Canadian major population centers. Cleveland has a market for property right now. Demand is growing, so prices for their 500,000 sq/ft facilities would probably be a tough find. I imagine they want their facilities within the same block close to transportation which would be best for the Super Block, but I'm afraid its not enough space for the long run. We could start a rapid line to the steelyards and lease property there (probably not a good idea anyways), maybe some of Scranton peninsula or surface lots that create vacant space between CSU's Rhodes tower and the Erieview block. They could probably make some space closer to University Circle, it would be nice to have sort of a secondary Cleveland skyline kind of like Toronto with Mississauga, and New York with Newark. UC is booming in economic growth, even if healthcare just isn't settled yet. There's a lot of potential there.

 

The Amazon bid is for offices, not distributions centers. The distribution centers are already being placed as needed throughout the world.

 

And yes, this probably should remain in the Cleveland business thread right now. If Cleveland wins the bid, then it's a Cleveland construction project.

 

I think the coolest thing we could do is create a grassroots movement to support the bid. Have an amazon-themed party downtown, have the dog pound hold up a sign during a browns game, get Great Lakes to come out with an Amazon Ale, and throw a yard sign on every property in cleveland. That sign of overwhelming community support could really help push otherwise equal bids over the edge

 

Supportive workforce talent, telecom and transit infrastructure, plus financial incentives are going to win this race, not enthusiasm.

Great Lakes should come out with an Amazon Ale? Wtf? Those ideas wreak of desperation. I don't see this happening at all. They're probably just going to go with Boston. That is what their execs are pushing for. Perception is reality and no one thinks Cleveland is any particular hot spot for human capital outside of health care.

Well having a distribution center right on the lake would be a game play though. No need to weave through mountains to get to Canadian cities.

Great Lakes should come out with an Amazon Ale? Wtf? Those ideas wreak of desperation. I don't see this happening at all. They're probably just going to go with Boston. That is what their execs are pushing for. Perception is reality and no one thinks Cleveland is any particular hot spot for human capital outside of health care.

 

I hate to agree with this, but I do.  Amazon will want to attract top talent to their corporate headquarters and it's very likely they don't think they can best do that in a city like Cleveland, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Memphis, etc.  I see this going to one of the obvious choices; Denver, Boston, Atlanta, or Dallas.  They'll need to be in a location where they can easily recruit thousands of employees quickly and retain them.  As much as I love Cleveland I don't think my enthusiasm is shared by most recent college graduates.  Cleveland still has a stigma working against it.

^Still worth a try. Lol.

Totally worth a try. We can't sit and do nothing

 

I don't agree with that attitude David. The rock hall was not supposed to go to cleveland. No one expected us to get the republican national convention. Big pushes landed us those assets. Thinking creatively to show community support is not desperation.

 

You actually said in the following sentence "perception is reality." If we don't perceive ourselves as able to land a big company, then we won't.

Great Lakes should come out with an Amazon Ale? Wtf? Those ideas wreak of desperation. I don't see this happening at all. They're probably just going to go with Boston. That is what their execs are pushing for. Perception is reality and no one thinks Cleveland is any particular hot spot for human capital outside of health care.

 

Are you just making this up?  How do you know the execs are pushing for Boston? 

Great Lakes should come out with an Amazon Ale? Wtf? Those ideas wreak of desperation. I don't see this happening at all. They're probably just going to go with Boston. That is what their execs are pushing for. Perception is reality and no one thinks Cleveland is any particular hot spot for human capital outside of health care.

 

 

I hate to agree with this, but I do.  Amazon will want to attract top talent to their corporate headquarters and it's very likely they don't think they can best do that in a city like Cleveland, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Memphis, etc.  I see this going to one of the obvious choices; Denver, Boston, Atlanta, or Dallas.  They'll need to be in a location where they can easily recruit thousands of employees quickly and retain them.  As much as I love Cleveland I don't think my enthusiasm is shared by most recent college graduates.  Cleveland still has a stigma working against it.

 

Funny you mention this.  Im currently in NYC for work.  I ran into a 26 year old from Broadview at a bar watching the tribe.  He lives in Brooklyn.  He's broke, has no money but loves living here.  Says there are too many racists in NE Ohio.  I didnt defend it.  I said its something many of us people who get it are working on.  I told him its an evolving city...but in my Shaker universe, where i view NE Ohio as a pretty diverse, accepting, walkable place...i sometimes am remind what some young folks actually think of Cleveland.

 

Great Lakes should come out with an Amazon Ale? Wtf? Those ideas wreak of desperation. I don't see this happening at all. They're probably just going to go with Boston. That is what their execs are pushing for. Perception is reality and no one thinks Cleveland is any particular hot spot for human capital outside of health care.

 

 

I hate to agree with this, but I do.  Amazon will want to attract top talent to their corporate headquarters and it's very likely they don't think they can best do that in a city like Cleveland, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Memphis, etc.  I see this going to one of the obvious choices; Denver, Boston, Atlanta, or Dallas.  They'll need to be in a location where they can easily recruit thousands of employees quickly and retain them.  As much as I love Cleveland I don't think my enthusiasm is shared by most recent college graduates.  Cleveland still has a stigma working against it.

 

Funny you mention this.  Im currently in NYC for work.  I ran into a 26 year old from Broadview at a bar watching the tribe.  He lives in Brooklyn.  He's broke, has no money but loves living here.  Says there are too many racists in NE Ohio.  I didnt defend it.  I said its something many of us people who get it are working on.  I told him its an evolving city...but in my Shaker universe, where i view NE Ohio as a pretty diverse, accepting, walkable place...i sometimes am remind what some young folks actually think of Cleveland.

 

 

Clevelanders can be very leery of outsiders, it didn't feel that way back in the 1980s and 90s. It can be seen as racism and at times I'm sure it is. I think Cleveland's other problem is Amazon hires a fair amount of immigrants. The current mayor has stated in the past Cleveland needs to take care of it's "own" before welcoming people from other countries. Not a good look to show a global corporation.

I don't know if this belongs in the "crazy comment" category, but a friend of mine who was familiar with Amazon's RFP process and Bezos said that when Bezos gets one look at Chief Wahoo, he'll immediately reject Cleveland no matter what else it has to offer.

Well goodbye Amazon, nice talking about the deal. Sorry Wahoo was a deal breaker. LOL