September 15, 20204 yr 5 hours ago, inlovewithCLE said: Paging @KJP I don't understand Pugu's question. That's where Erieview Tower is located. You can see it through that gap in the stadium's stands. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 15, 20204 yr 12 hours ago, roman totale XVII said: Anyone else noticed Erieview Tower clumsily photoshopped into the latest Progressive ad? Subliminal messaging??? ? 35 minutes ago, KJP said: I don't understand Pugu's question. That's where Erieview Tower is located. You can see it through that gap in the stadium's stands. Maybe the escalator with PROGRESSIVE along the side is throwing people off? When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
September 15, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: I don't understand Pugu's question. That's where Erieview Tower is located. You can see it through that gap in the stadium's stands. Actually...I don't understand the original post of @roman totale XVII to which @Pugu was responding. Like @KJP indicates, from that part of First Energy Stadium you can see Erieview.
September 15, 20204 yr Whoops. Was meant to be light-hearted post, I didn’t want to start a lot of confusion here! I get that you can see Erieview from that angle (although it does seem a little prominent vs reality to my eyes). I simply thought the juxtaposition of the tower and the amateurish branding may lead some folks nationwide think that it was the company’s HQ. My hovercraft is full of eels
September 15, 20204 yr 21 hours ago, Dougal said: TDG didn't write the law; they just took advantage of it. You can make a lot of money doing that. Just like with politicians, it would be nice if we could hold companies, especially local companies, to a higher standard than “didn’t break the law.”
September 15, 20204 yr 2 hours ago, Enginerd said: Just like with politicians, it would be nice if we could hold companies, especially local companies, to a higher standard than “didn’t break the law.” The cast of characters who took advantage of the law, i.e took a cheap loan they didn't really need, includes a lot of the Fortune 500. The overly broad eligibility is Washington's fault for being in a rush, which was thought to be a good thing at the time. IMO it was a good thing, even while benefitting some companies perhaps unnecessarily; the scope of the economic catastrophe was ungageable at the time. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
September 15, 20204 yr 16 hours ago, Pugu said: ^interesting. Why would they do that? Does Progressive have an ownership stake in Erieview Plaza? As an employee, I'd be surprised if it was for anything other than aesthetics Whoops, didn't see plenty of folks already replied Edited September 15, 20204 yr by gpodawund
September 16, 20204 yr Hi All - I was having a convo with a friend and couldn't remember the name... but does anyone recall the name of the sports streaming company located in Cleveland - I know we've discussed it in this forum but can't find it. Thanks!
September 16, 20204 yr 42 minutes ago, freefourur said: ^ BoxCast? No - unfortunately this one was Sports specific. And I'm losing my mind trying to figure it out
September 16, 20204 yr Not sure where to put this but the IX Center is closing !! https://fox8.com/news/i-team/clevelands-i-x-center-to-close-at-end-of-the-year/
September 16, 20204 yr ^ Wow. Although not a surprise. Ostensibly good news for the Huntington Convention Center, although having been to the the Auto and RV shows consistently over the last 10 years, I’d say three quarters of that audience wouldn’t want to be seen dead downtown. My hovercraft is full of eels
September 16, 20204 yr I'm thinking this is good news for Downtown. Cleveland needs two convention centers like a hole in the head. Most events can move to Huntington Convention Center.
September 16, 20204 yr 20 minutes ago, mrclifton88 said: Not sure where to put this but the IX Center is closing !! https://fox8.com/news/i-team/clevelands-i-x-center-to-close-at-end-of-the-year/ I wonder why IX can't qualify for a cheap loan unless IX is much less profitable than was supposed. This points out again how woefully undercapitalized US businesses are. Cleveland will miss the vast space that only IX offered. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
September 16, 20204 yr 1 minute ago, roman totale XVII said: ^ Wow. Although not a surprise. Ostensibly good news for the Huntington Convention Center, although having been to the the Auto and RV shows consistently over the last 10 years, I’d say three quarters of that audience wouldn’t want to be seen dead downtown. Can things like the Auto, RV, and Boat show even be hosted in the Huntington Convention Center? For some reason I thought it was too small. The IX center is massive at 2.2 million square feet. My guess is that given it's location and overall good condition someone will snatch the Center up and convert it to a warehouse.
September 16, 20204 yr 22 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said: Can things like the Auto, RV, and Boat show even be hosted in the Huntington Convention Center? For some reason I thought it was too small. The IX center is massive at 2.2 million square feet. My guess is that given it's location and overall good condition someone will snatch the Center up and convert it to a warehouse. Does that someone rhyme with Schmamazon?
September 16, 20204 yr 2 minutes ago, Ineffable_Matt said: Does that someone rhyme with Schmamazon? Would be a great location with airport right next door.
September 16, 20204 yr Author 35 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said: Can things like the Auto, RV, and Boat show even be hosted in the Huntington Convention Center? For some reason I thought it was too small. The IX center is massive at 2.2 million square feet. My guess is that given it's location and overall good condition someone will snatch the Center up and convert it to a warehouse. I don't think the Huntington Convention Center was built for things like the Boat, RV and Auto shows. I remember the plan was to have both the IX Center and the Huntington run concurrently for separate audiences- with medical trade shows being the main focus (at least when it was built) of the Huntington. No more Ix Indoor Amusement Park for the kids... just for that reason alone I would hope another operator would come in when the economy turns around. That may be me just being selfish- of course I loved the Auto and Boat shows but being able to take the kids somewhere when it could be 60 degrees or 30 degrees outside was something we do at least once a year.
September 16, 20204 yr ^FWIW I'm old enough to have attended multiple auto and boat shows at the old convention center long before the upgraded Huntington center.
September 16, 20204 yr The auto and boat shows and many other others can be held downtown. No great loss here. And there are upsides. No more IX running competing shows with downtown---and running them one week BEFORE the similar scheduled ones Downtown. Now it can be used for airport purposes or torn down for field expansion at Hopkins. The city bought precisely for that reason in the 90s or so.
September 16, 20204 yr 23 minutes ago, Mov2Ohio said: Cleveland.com says The city of Cleveland owns it. In every lemon there is an chance to make lemonade.... What is the opportunity? Expand the busy downtown convention center over the tracks? Demo the I-X Center for a new, world-class airport terminal like what was proposed in the 1990s? Remember the White-Coyne fight in the 1990s to demo the I-X Center for a new air terminal? For those of you too young to remember..... https://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20010212/SUB/102120724/i-x-deal-takes-more-weight-off-white I thought I saved some of the old site plans of the proposed airport expansion. But I think they're in hardcopy (that's how we did things back then). I'll see if I can find them but they might be at the office. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 16, 20204 yr Doesn't seem like bad news for me. I can't see alot of the shows that used the IX Center just abandoning the market altogether. Alot will relocate downtown, even if its with scaled down shows to accommodate the (currently) smaller size of the CC. We could even possibly see an indoor amusement park, sans the ferris wheel. One of my earliest memories was going to the auto show at the old downtown center, and being more enamored with all the buildings and the fact that it was all underground than with any of the cars lol. The conversation for expanding the Convention Center was already being held before Covid. This will only give more reason for an expansion once everything settles down. Cleveland didn't need two competing centers. In the long run, this is for the best.
September 16, 20204 yr 4 hours ago, KJP said: In every lemon there is an chance to make lemonade.... What is the opportunity? Expand the busy downtown convention center over the tracks? Demo the I-X Center for a new, world-class airport terminal like what was proposed in the 1990s? Remember the White-Coyne fight in the 1990s to demo the I-X Center for a new air terminal? For those of you too young to remember..... https://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20010212/SUB/102120724/i-x-deal-takes-more-weight-off-white I thought I saved some of the old site plans of the proposed airport expansion. But I think they're in hardcopy (that's how we did things back then). I'll see if I can find them but they might be at the office. I agree. The city traded the IX center and some houses where the current rental car facility is. Houses that have since been torn down. Given the work going into remaining the football stadium and a bridge over the railroad tracks, and now this IX news,, I would hope Convention Center expansion or at least provisions for that are under consideration. The only down side is until the convention center is expanded or IX Center reopened, there is no place to hold the larger conventions for the time being. Would love to see Convention center expanded over the tracks and highway and Justice center tower hollowed out with an Atrium similar to the Atlanta Marriott Marquis and turned into another convention hotel with ground floor retail/restaurants.
September 16, 20204 yr I'm pretty sure that the event that was held at the old convention center Downtown was the Autorama, not the Greater Cleveland Auto Show (unless someone is thinking WAY back). It was a much smaller event, though I'm not saying that means that the Greater Cleveland Auto Show couldn't fit.
September 17, 20204 yr 20 minutes ago, X said: I'm pretty sure that the event that was held at the old convention center Downtown was the Autorama, not the Greater Cleveland Auto Show (unless someone is thinking WAY back). It was a much smaller event, though I'm not saying that means that the Greater Cleveland Auto Show couldn't fit. Well the IX is over 2 million SF and the Convention Center is 335Kish. I'd say that show is WAY too big for the downtown center. AND doesn't have the Ferris Wheel to top it all off! ?
September 17, 20204 yr Was the auto show using all of that space? Many events at IX were only using a portion of the total space.
September 17, 20204 yr 9 hours ago, Oldmanladyluck said: No more Ix Indoor Amusement Park for the kids... just for that reason alone I would hope another operator would come in when the economy turns around. That may be me just being selfish- of course I loved the Auto and Boat shows but being able to take the kids somewhere when it could be 60 degrees or 30 degrees outside was something we do at least once a year. Hey, maybe Tower City can be converted to an indoor amusement park. I think the big Ferris wheel might fit in there.
September 17, 20204 yr Anyone that has gone in recent years knows they only use a fraction of the IX center for the auto show. I imagine they could make it work even at that reduced square footage.
September 17, 20204 yr 35 minutes ago, Flee2theCleve said: Anyone that has gone in recent years knows they only use a fraction of the IX center for the auto show. I imagine they could make it work even at that reduced square footage. What will be tough to make work are the labor costs, which are staggeringly higher at the Huntington Convention center vs the IX (which was non-union).
September 17, 20204 yr 48 minutes ago, Flee2theCleve said: Anyone that has gone in recent years knows they only use a fraction of the IX center for the auto show. I imagine they could make it work even at that reduced square footage. On the other hand, the auto dealers keep a fleet of demonstration cars parked outside the I-X Center for test drives. That's not as easy to do at the downtown Convention Center. I have a suspicion this is going to work out for the better. Park Corp is a dinosaur. It's been a declining company for decades as its chairman is now in his 90s. They are not paying rent to the city and that land is much more valuable than $0 rent, whether it be for a exhibition center and/or a warehouse facility. In fact the I-X Center has had available for lease up to 750,000 square feet for a distribution warehouse Center but they haven't listed it through a real estate brokerage so few potential customers know about it. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 17, 20204 yr Yes, test drives may be a challenge downtown, but I assume that is the case with auto shows held at downtown convention facilities in other cities.
September 17, 20204 yr 54 minutes ago, KJP said: On the other hand, the auto dealers keep a fleet of demonstration cars parked outside the I-X Center for test drives. That's not as easy to do at the downtown Convention Center. I have a suspicion this is going to work out for the better. Park Corp is a dinosaur. It's been a declining company for decades as its chairman is now in his 90s. They are not paying rent to the city and that land is much more valuable than $0 rent, whether it be for a exhibition center and/or a warehouse facility. In fact the I-X Center has had available for lease up to 750,000 square feet for a distribution warehouse Center but they haven't listed it through a real estate brokerage so few potential customers know about it. I'd love to see the city be aggressive and go for an airport expansion. These airlines are vulnerable - undercut tf out of other hubs and lock them in where possible. Personally, I'd love to see JetBlue up its presence here as well - and they're positioned well as an airline to fill the vacuum when one of the big boys inevitably fails
September 17, 20204 yr 40 minutes ago, YABO713 said: I'd love to see the city be aggressive and go for an airport expansion. These airlines are vulnerable - undercut tf out of other hubs and lock them in where possible. Personally, I'd love to see JetBlue up its presence here as well - and they're positioned well as an airline to fill the vacuum when one of the big boys inevitably fails I don't think we need to expand the airport. We should me moving away from air travel as it's a massive CO2 producer and electric commercial airliners are not gonna happen any time soon. I'd like to see more investment in rail infrastructure and similar stuff.
September 17, 20204 yr 50 minutes ago, YABO713 said: I'd love to see the city be aggressive and go for an airport expansion. These airlines are vulnerable - undercut tf out of other hubs and lock them in where possible. Personally, I'd love to see JetBlue up its presence here as well - and they're positioned well as an airline to fill the vacuum when one of the big boys inevitably fails Why in the world would the city go for an airport expansion when there isn’t nearly enough air service to support the terminal we have?!
September 17, 20204 yr For a non-hub airport in a region that is not growing, I have a feeling the master plan will recommend an overhaul of the existing terminal and concourses. Perhaps some of the cargo facilities to the south of the airport could be relocated to the site of the IX center to provide more space for airport expansion. And maybe the aging Sheraton hotel could be relocated off-site to provide even more space. But we are digressing. Back to the IX Center. Even though it held some big events such as the auto show, boat show, indoor amusement park, etc., I'm pretty sure it sat unused more than not throughout the year. It seems like we should be able to find a better use for a property in such a prime location. Edited September 17, 20204 yr by skiwest
September 17, 20204 yr Why would you assume it's photoshopped? From that vantage point, that's literally where Erie View tower is located in the city.
September 17, 20204 yr The IX Center was originally industrial. I wonder if it could be converted to logistics and distribution. Perhaps an air hub for Amazon or someone, using airport assets but also creating jobs.
September 17, 20204 yr 3 minutes ago, ink said: The IX Center was originally industrial. I wonder if it could be converted to logistics and distribution. Perhaps an air hub for Amazon or someone, using airport assets but also creating jobs. I don't see why not. It has acres of open floor space with widely spaced columns, all with air, highway and rail access.
September 17, 20204 yr 25 minutes ago, pontiac51 said: Why in the world would the city go for an airport expansion when there isn’t nearly enough air service to support the terminal we have?! That's actually a solid point. No less I do think it should be a focal point of an infrastructure project. Air, rail, or otherwise.
September 17, 20204 yr 39 minutes ago, pontiac51 said: Why in the world would the city go for an airport expansion when there isn’t nearly enough air service to support the terminal we have?! Because the existing terminal is inadequate and makes it difficult to get new service.
September 17, 20204 yr Before the pandemic, air traffic was growing considerably at Hopkins. I was there almost every week and it was almost always busy.
September 17, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, Pugu said: Because the existing terminal is inadequate and makes it difficult to get new service. Again, especially from a cost standpoint, why would the city EXPAND the airport when when the current facility is severely underutilized? And the fact of the matter is that the airport has gained a decent amount of new service since the hub closure. Haven’t you been paying attention?
September 17, 20204 yr 7 minutes ago, pontiac51 said: Again, especially from a cost standpoint, why would the city EXPAND the airport when when the current facility is severely underutilized? And the fact of the matter is that the airport has gained a decent amount of new service since the hub closure. Haven’t you been paying attention? A more modern layout/airport would lead to many more additional flight options and most likely additional international options than the current growth the airport has seen. Also pretty sure Pugu has been paying attention like everyone else has in knowing many aspect of the airport areoutdated.
September 17, 20204 yr 1 hour ago, YABO713 said: That's actually a solid point. No less I do think it should be a focal point of an infrastructure project. Air, rail, or otherwise. I was just at Hopkins last week, funneled into a TSA area that was the size of a shoebox lol. This setup does not work in 2020 or beyond.
September 17, 20204 yr I think the point trying to be made is that the airport terminals can be overhauled/modernized in the current space without expanding the total footprint into the area of the IX Center. I would agree with that. The IX Center property would be more valuable as warehousing/manufacturing space next to an updated airport. Does anyone remember the "aerotropolis" plans that came out like 5-6 (10?) years ago?
September 17, 20204 yr Interesting - apparently the operator of the I-X Center does pay rent, but to the airport, not direct to the city. $2 million a year. I-X Center closure could cost Cleveland Hopkins International Airport more than $2M a year https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/09/i-x-center-closure-could-cost-cleveland-hopkins-international-airport-more-than-2m-a-year.html CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Closure of the International Exposition Center could cost city-owned Cleveland Hopkins International Airport more than $2 million, the city reported Thursday. Edward Rybka, the city’s chief of regional development, told reporters during a news conference that I-X Center Corp., the company leasing the I-X center, had been paying the airport $2 million a year in rent. Rybka said the city also will lose payroll taxes collected on the nearly 180 employees who worked at the I-X Center and will have to pay $800,000 a year in property taxes that had been covered by I-X Center Corp. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
September 17, 20204 yr I'm sure some of those losses could be recouped. Maybe the IX parking lot could be used for car rental or park-n-fly or both, at least temporarily until a decision is made on the future of the IX Center. Edited September 17, 20204 yr by skiwest
September 18, 20204 yr 17 hours ago, skiwest said: I'm sure some of those losses could be recouped. Maybe the IX parking lot could be used for car rental or park-n-fly or both, at least temporarily until a decision is made on the future of the IX Center. My guess is the parking lobby that run the existing lots would fight this tooth and nail.
Create an account or sign in to comment