Yeah, I think I’ve convinced my wife once our kids are school age we will look into moving to Shaker Hts from Mentor.

13 hours ago, mrnyc said:

^ but is is that because suburbia isnt so in vogue, or because the region population is declining in general?

 

It's a mixture of both. Each year, more and more families are choosing Edgewater/Gordon Square, Tremont and OHC over traditional suburbs like Brecksville, Solon, etc.

Obviously urban living is way more popular for young people than middle aged people. I hope we can cultivate a positive, child-centered culture in dense urban areas, because that's how you stop people from fleeing to the exurbs for 1.5 acres and a big dog once they have kids. How positive an experience living downtown with a child is will greatly affect how well we can sustain downtown's growth.

 

But that's all an aside--

 

To the point, companies don't locate where the 30-something employees want to be. They locate where the late 40s to 50s employees (i.e. tenured, senior, and often most productive people in the company) want to be. In about 20 years, when our generation is making all the decisions, I would expect corporate relocations to the inner city. If companies were forward thinking, they would do that now. But thinking 20 years in the future doesn't happen so well when your obligations are to a bunch of shareholders who are essentially (a) retirement funds for people who will be dead in 20 years, and (b) hedge funds managed by people who will be retired in 20 years.

Discuss the travel/transportation aspects of this in the Hopkins thread, linked below. Discuss the business implications of this nonstop flight here....

 

 

Ok, business implications ... I liked the hint given at the airport (by Team NEO rep?) that there would be some use of the CLE-DUB flight by Intel, which has 4,500 employees in Ireland and a growing number in Ohio.

On 9/20/2022 at 12:43 PM, LibertyBlvd said:

Parker Hannifin was in Cleveland prior to moving to suburbia.

 

So were Eaton, Ferro, and others I can't think of off the top of my head.

 

In manufacturing, a lot of the time people are coming up to corporate from the plants.   More often than not, they are used to a low density drive, and parking close to where they work.  Their influence is going to be towards a suburban HQ.   Factor in real estate costs and far less need for a “prestige” address than banks, lawyers, insurance companies, etc, and downtowns are a very hard sell.

On 9/26/2022 at 10:09 AM, LlamaLawyer said:

Obviously urban living is way more popular for young people than middle aged people. I hope we can cultivate a positive, child-centered culture in dense urban areas, because that's how you stop people from fleeing to the exurbs for 1.5 acres and a big dog once they have kids. How positive an experience living downtown with a child is will greatly affect how well we can sustain downtown's growth.

 

But that's all an aside--

 

To the point, companies don't locate where the 30-something employees want to be. They locate where the late 40s to 50s employees (i.e. tenured, senior, and often most productive people in the company) want to be. In about 20 years, when our generation is making all the decisions, I would expect corporate relocations to the inner city. If companies were forward thinking, they would do that now. But thinking 20 years in the future doesn't happen so well when your obligations are to a bunch of shareholders who are essentially (a) retirement funds for people who will be dead in 20 years, and (b) hedge funds managed by people who will be retired in 20 years.

 

You're assuming that in 20 years your generation is going to think they way they do now.

 

Between my own contemporaries, Holly's, and the bar people when I worked (the last two overlap a lot) I've watched two generations transition from downtown or close being an attractive option, and full embrace of the whole kids/dog/yard thing.

Edited September 29, 20222 yr by E Rocc

1 minute ago, E Rocc said:

Between my own contemporaries, Holly's, and the bar people when I worked (the last two overlap a lot) I've watched two generations transition from downtown or close being an attractive option, and full embrace of the whole kids/dog/yard thing.

And you're assuming your small inner circle thinks and does as the majority. 
 

The facts are downtown has been the fastest growing growing census tract (amongst all ages) in all of NEO for over a decade now, with no signs of slowing down. 
 

As more and more people call downtown home, businesses will follow. 
 

 

On 9/26/2022 at 10:09 AM, LlamaLawyer said:

Obviously urban living is way more popular for young people than middle aged people. I hope we can cultivate a positive, child-centered culture in dense urban areas, because that's how you stop people from fleeing to the exurbs for 1.5 acres and a big dog once they have kids. How positive an experience living downtown with a child is will greatly affect how well we can sustain downtown's growth.

Factor in delayed marriages with people having less and less kids each generation and we are witnessing suburbs become less appealing/necessary in real time. I don't think many are following this shift in family dynamic enough to realize what this is doing, or how it's correlating into recent migration patterns.
 

Myself along with many friends/family are choosing to have only one, maybe two kids. This makes staying in the city and finding the right school(s) much more doable or affordable for those sending to private schools. 
 

Essentially shifts in demographics and family sizes are becoming a boon to all cities. 
 

Add in the amenities, fun, walkability and lack of MAGA types, and it's easy to see why downtown, UC and the near westside are adding more units than the rest of the region combined.

Edited September 29, 20222 yr by Clefan98

3 hours ago, Clefan98 said:

Factor in delayed marriages with people having less and less kids each generation and we are witnessing suburbs become less appealing/necessary in real time. I don't think many are following this shift in family dynamic enough to realize what this is doing, or how it's correlating into recent migration patterns.
 

Myself along with many friends/family are choosing to have only one, maybe two kids. This makes staying in the city and finding the right school(s) much more doable or affordable for those sending to private schools. 
 

Essentially shifts in demographics and family sizes are becoming a boon to all cities. 
 

Add in the amenities, fun, walkability and lack of MAGA types, and it's easy to see why downtown, UC and the near westside are adding more units than the rest of the region combined.

Married late (39), one child who is being raised completely downtown Cleveland. She goes to Campus International and loves it. We never considered the burbs and yes, we don’t have to deal with the MAGA types at all. It’s a beautiful thing.

4 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

You're assuming that in 20 years your generation is going to think they way they do now.

 

Between my own contemporaries, Holly's, and the bar people when I worked (the last two overlap a lot) I've watched two generations transition from downtown or close being an attractive option, and full embrace of the whole kids/dog/yard thing.

Every generation is sure they won't become their parents. And yet, basically every generation grows up to be like their parents. It's not guaranteed, but it's a good bet. 

4 minutes ago, Ethan said:

Every generation is sure they won't become their parents. And yet, basically every generation grows up to be like their parents. It's not guaranteed, but it's a good bet. 

 

That's not the bet developers and savvy real estate investors are making, at least not in this region.

There are plenty of places in the city that offer a yard and access to public amenities (and public transit). For instance, I rent in Old Brooklyn and my yard is massive, my walk to the bus takes 5 minutes and I can get to the city center in 25 mins (bus) or 30 mins (bike). There's many similar spots in Cleveland (see the middle neighborhoods initiative)...you just don't hear about them because they aren't hip in the Tremont/OC/DS/LI sense. 

 

To bring it back to the thread topic: sure, as long as companies are run by traditional suits who value their freeway access and free parking, business campuses and industry will be built out in the middle of nowhere but good luck getting non-C suite employees. It's shortsighted on the bigwigs' part. The region has sponsored the Paradox Prize which is working to figure out ways to get workers to employment centers because they're inaccessible to transit and anything but a car. 

 

I've brought it up before, but a young adult I mentor lived in Garfield/Maple Heights and had a job at the Euclid Amazon warehouse...he wasn't able to keep up with the job because his bus ride was 1.5 hours each way for a 20-30 minute drive. Now do it with employees who live in the city - to go from Hough to Solon is a 1.5 hour bus ride when it's a 30-40 minute drive. 

 

Sure, execs love their free parking and their palatial estates but it means nothing if you can't get employees to man your businesses - they'll use the excuse of "nobody wants to work" when in reality, there are better paying jobs that don't require 15 hours of commute over a week.

10 hours ago, Dougal said:

Ok, business implications ... I liked the hint given at the airport (by Team NEO rep?) that there would be some use of the CLE-DUB flight by Intel, which has 4,500 employees in Ireland and a growing number in Ohio.

 

Don't worry -- I'm not going to let that one get ignored either. I keep hoping that means Intel will have a presence here in Cleveland as well. If not, then a two-hour ride in a car down I-71 is in the cards -- although Europeans consider anything more than a 45-minute ride in a car to be a long drive. So two hours is pretty unheard of. Might be a good thing to put pressure on DeWine if he wins reelection to push for 3C trains. Remember that the prior plan had an SW Cleveland/Airport rail station planned at the Puritas RTA Red Line station.

 

Do we know for certain that Intel will/will not have a presence here in NE Ohio too?

On 10/21/2021 at 8:15 AM, Luke_S said:

Back in 2019 London Stock exchange announced it would be opening the American HQ of ELITE, it's international business support and capital raising initiative. 

 

I remember seeing reports of this at the time and it sounded like it could be a huge boost for Cleveland, but I haven't heard anything since. Anyone have any updates? 

I have not heard anything about this.  I assume it has not happened yet.

18 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

I have not heard anything about this.  I assume it has not happened yet.

 

It hasn't. They put it on hold during the pandemic and don't appear to be reviving it.

4 hours ago, Ethan said:

Every generation is sure they won't become their parents. And yet, basically every generation grows up to be like their parents. It's not guaranteed, but it's a good bet. 

 

My evidence is anecdotal, but let's be real so is everyone's.   My circle covers from the boom to millennials, and has never been sorted ideologically until perhaps recently.

 

A former neighbor in Beulah is an attorney, mid to late 40s.   Based on her FB page, she is pretty liberal.   She is a single mom with a seven year old son.   She just moved out to Brecksville to start the school year.   My guess is she's more typical than those sticking it out.

3 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Don't worry -- I'm not going to let that one get ignored either. I keep hoping that means Intel will have a presence here in Cleveland as well. If not, then a two-hour ride in a car down I-71 is in the cards -- although Europeans consider anything more than a 45-minute ride in a car to be a long drive. So two hours is pretty unheard of. Might be a good thing to put pressure on DeWine if he wins reelection to push for 3C trains. Remember that the prior plan had an SW Cleveland/Airport rail station planned at the Puritas RTA Red Line station.

 

Do we know for certain that Intel will/will not have a presence here in NE Ohio too?

 

My concern is Port Columbus tries to poach the nonstop.

41 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

My concern is Port Columbus tries to poach the nonstop.

 

I think there's plenty of business here to retain it. There's way too many of us micks around here for it not to work out!

1 hour ago, E Rocc said:

 

My concern is Port Columbus tries to poach the nonstop.

 

I'm from Columbus and I love Columbus. But after having moved to Cleveland I can tell you now that Columbus isn't half the city that Cleveland is. This flight will do fine. CMH wouldn't be able to support a TATL flight.

36 minutes ago, jcw92 said:

 

I'm from Columbus and I love Columbus. But after having moved to Cleveland I can tell you now that Columbus isn't half the city that Cleveland is. This flight will do fine. CMH wouldn't be able to support a TATL flight.

There’s no need to bash Columbus or any other city for that matter. I agree with you that the flight should do well, but Columbus has a lot of good things going for it. 

2 minutes ago, MayDay said:

There’s no need to bash Columbus or any other city for that matter. I agree with you that the flight should do well, but Columbus has a lot of good things going for it. 

I don't like the city vs city stuff in Ohio. All 3 big Cs are great cities with their own vibe. 

25 minutes ago, MayDay said:

There’s no need to bash Columbus or any other city for that matter. I agree with you that the flight should do well, but Columbus has a lot of good things going for it. 

 

22 minutes ago, freefourur said:

I don't like the city vs city stuff in Ohio. All 3 big Cs are great cities with their own vibe. 

 

Sorry--I wasn't bashing Columbus, LOL! I'm from Columbus and I love Columbus. I was just responding to @E Roccwho made a comment about Columbus trying to steal the new Aer Lingus route from Cleveland. What I was saying was, they're both great cities, but Cleveland is definitely more 'big city' and Columbus is more 'small town' vibe. And both have their benefits and drawbacks. Neither is "better" than the other, but appeal to different people, but Cleveland can surely sustain a TATL flight, while I don't think Columbus, my home town, could.

Cleveland's flights to London and Paris on Continental did not survive long term.  The Reykjavic flights didn't either.  I hope this new flight does, although I wonder what is different today that would enable that (after subsidies expire).  I know that the 321Neo is more efficient than the old 757-200's were, but is that enough?

1 hour ago, urb-a-saurus said:

Cleveland's flights to London and Paris on Continental did not survive long term.  The Reykjavic flights didn't either.  I hope this new flight does, although I wonder what is different today that would enable that (after subsidies expire).  I know that the 321Neo is more efficient than the old 757-200's were, but is that enough?

For one thing, the Continental flights to London and Paris were seasonal.  I believe the global recession contributed to their demise.  And the subsequent merger with United ensured they would never resume.  As for the Reykjavík flights, WOW had financial woes and ceased operations and Iceland discontinued several routes, including CLE when the 737 Max was grounded.

 

Edited September 29, 20222 yr by LibertyBlvd

33 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

For one thing, the Continental flights to London and Paris were seasonal.  I believe the global recession contributed to their demise.  And the subsequent merger with United ensured they would never resume.  As for the Reykjavík flights, WOW had financial woes and ceased operations and Iceland discontinued several routes, including CLE when the 737 Max was grounded.

 

 

Also, the two Iceland routes offered 9x per week between the two. Yes, two carriers bring competition and thus stimulate the market but it wasn't like CLE-NYC---it was a thin market to begin with. But as@LibertyBlvdsaid, it was ultimately external factors that did them in and unfortunately affected both carriers---the Max8 grounding for Icelandair and going out of business and ceasing all routes for Wow.

^ and ^^ 

I am aware of all of those external effects.  Even larger airports lost international flights temporarily for various reasons, (most recently from the pandemic), however, in Cleveland's case, the lost routes LGW, LHR, CDG, KEF) never returned.

Edited September 30, 20222 yr by urb-a-saurus

^If UA and CO didn't merge, CLE's LHR/LGW and CDG flights would still be around.  Cincinnati lost a lot of flights when DL and NW merged and Detroit and MSP won. CVG never got those flights back. CLE's lost flights are a result of industry issues, not the city's faults.

Since we all love speculation - here's a nugget I can't put together on my own. 

 

I work in Key Tower, and our garage has had numerous cars from Kentucky, more specifically, Owensboro, Kentucky for the past 6-8 weeks. There are about 6-10 cars there intermittently over the last few weeks. I can't figure out what it means, but know that these guys are staying at the Marriot, as I've crossed paths with them a few times (I should've just straight up asked back then lol)

23 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

Since we all love speculation - here's a nugget I can't put together on my own. 

 

I work in Key Tower, and our garage has had numerous cars from Kentucky, more specifically, Owensboro, Kentucky for the past 6-8 weeks. There are about 6-10 cars there intermittently over the last few weeks. I can't figure out what it means, but know that these guys are staying at the Marriot, as I've crossed paths with them a few times (I should've just straight up asked back then lol)

 

Hmmmm.. could be anything.  According to Wikipedia, US Bank Mortgage is a major employer there--#2 on the list with 1500 employees. Maybe something to do with that....Acquiring or selling or merging home mortgage depts or something?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owensboro,_Kentucky#Top_employers

14 hours ago, urb-a-saurus said:

... in Cleveland's case, the lost routes LGW, LHR, CDG, KEF) never returned.

Cleveland subsidized both WOW and Icelandair.  I assume the subsidies were terminated when the service was canceled.  I suppose Cleveland could have tried to re-initiate service to Reykjavík with Icelandair via another subsidy, but decided to pursue Aer Lingus to Dublin instead.

 

Edited September 30, 20222 yr by LibertyBlvd

The subsidies were canceled when the airline was terminated. 

Hmmm

 

 

34 minutes ago, KJP said:

Hmmm

 

 

The absolute irony if Forbes moves part of its workforce to Cleveland. I will legitimately laugh out loud for a good five minutes. 

Perhaps they'll be announcing a $500,000 study.

11 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Perhaps they'll be announcing a $500,000 study.

 

Is there a firm that employs a councilman's spouse to take this project on, as is traditional?

"Forbes to reveal 'new opportunity coming soon to Ohio"  The key word here is "opportunity" its not "project" or "company" or "employer" or "building".  Its probably not RRHOF expansion either as that wouldn't fit--plus that has already been announced a few years ago--I only mention RRHOF because of where they're deciding to hold this press conference. @KJP--any ideas?

 

Edit---just re-read the story:  "Forbes will also be joined by the following people who will be speaking about the new initiative."   Maybe a  new national effort to reduce urban poverty and based in Cleveland. That would be in line with Forbes's role as they loved to bash the city and its poverty levels.

Edited October 5, 20222 yr by jcw92

^Hopefully something music related. Forbes's last article on Cleveland was about the the arts and culture in the city: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chaddscott/2022/09/05/cleveland-the-next-venice

@jcw92 So far, no one's talking or doesn't know. Guess we'll find out in an hour.

"Good news Cleveland, we've decided to let you, the city, the county, the region, to finance 3/4 of a billion dollars on a vague project that we, or some other even more vague group, will manage. For a while at least. But just THINK of the hotels' and restaurants' resounding benefits. What a deal!

 

Now where's that new sales tax revenue vote! Hurry up! After all, Nashville is beating down the door if you turn us down!"

Sorry, turns out the Forbes announcement doesn't involve new construction after all, at least not for a while. And Under 30 Summit is statewide, starting in Cleveland.....

 

 

This year's Forbes under 30 event was expected to bring in 3,000 people to Detroit. The event is this week.

 

https://www.freep.com/story/money/business/2022/10/03/forbes-under-30-summit-brings-ceos-celebrities-to-detroit/69536249007/

On 9/29/2022 at 5:23 PM, jcw92 said:

 

 

Sorry--I wasn't bashing Columbus, LOL! I'm from Columbus and I love Columbus. I was just responding to @E Roccwho made a comment about Columbus trying to steal the new Aer Lingus route from Cleveland. What I was saying was, they're both great cities, but Cleveland is definitely more 'big city' and Columbus is more 'small town' vibe. And both have their benefits and drawbacks. Neither is "better" than the other, but appeal to different people, but Cleveland can surely sustain a TATL flight, while I don't think Columbus, my home town, could.

No you weren’t bashing Columbus, just making your informed opinion.

 

Aer Lingus website lists 14 of its most popular U.s. origin airports; CLE is one of them while JFK/EWR are 2 of them.

While Intel’s Ohio presence is growing, CLE should regardless become a feeder/connector location for Aer Lingus.

 

I recall this story a few years back complete with a billboard near Hopkins about Aer Lingus coming into CLE…way before the Intel location in central Ohio.

Edited October 5, 20222 yr by Oxford19

2 hours ago, Oxford19 said:

No you weren’t bashing Columbus, just making your informed opinion.

 

Aer Lingus website lists 14 of its most popular U.s. origin airports; CLE is one of them while JFK/EWR are 2 of them.

While Intel’s Ohio presence is growing, CLE should regardless become a feeder/connector location for Aer Lingus.

 

I recall this story a few years back complete with a billboard near Hopkins about Aer Lingus coming into CLE…way before the Intel location in central Ohio.

Not an expert on the logistics and business handlings of airports, but it will be interesting to see what occurs in Columbus in the next 5+ years and expanded flight offerings.  Specifically with a completely brand-new airport and the completion of 2 if not 4 Intel Fabs at that point, among quite a few other suppliers inevitably headed to that region.

Kenn Ricci is taking Flexjet (headquartered at the County airport) public through merger with a "blank-check" corporation.  With estimated revenues of ~$2 billion Flexjet is right around the bottom of the Fortune 1000 listing.  The article doesn't say precisely whether Ricci will retain a significant interest in the resulting company; I hope he does.

 

https://investors.flexjet.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Flexjet-Press-Release.pdf

 

 

6 minutes ago, Dougal said:

Kenn Ricci is taking Flexjet (headquartered at the County airport) public through merger with a "blank-check" corporation.  With estimated revenues of ~$2 billion Flexjet is right around the bottom of the Fortune 1000 listing.  The article doesn't say precisely whether Ricci will retain a significant interest in the resulting company; I hope he does.

 

https://investors.flexjet.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Flexjet-Press-Release.pdf

 

 

 

I believe Flexjet has a fairly significant corporate presence in Dallas too. But IIRC they did spend a fair amount on capital improvements to their corporate offices in Richmond Heights, so hopefully they keep their HQ here. 

 

Crain's write-up also:

https://www.crainscleveland.com/transportation/aviation-firm-flexjet-sets-plan-become-public-company

1 hour ago, Luke_S said:

 

I believe Flexjet has a fairly significant corporate presence in Dallas too. But IIRC they did spend a fair amount on capital improvements to their corporate offices in Richmond Heights, so hopefully they keep their HQ here. 

 

Crain's write-up also:

https://www.crainscleveland.com/transportation/aviation-firm-flexjet-sets-plan-become-public-company

There are always quite a few job openings listed at the Richmond Heights HQ on aviation related websites. 

Nice tuck-in acquisition by Lincoln Electric.  It gets LECO another 25% toward their goal of $1 billion in sales from automation euipment.

 

None of the Cleveland media has covered it.  😒

 

Edit:  An hour later, Crains published the story.

 

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2022/10/14/2534564/0/en/Lincoln-Electric-Signs-Definitive-Agreement-to-Acquire-Fori-Automation-Inc.html

On 10/11/2022 at 12:33 PM, Luke_S said:

 

I believe Flexjet has a fairly significant corporate presence in Dallas too. But IIRC they did spend a fair amount on capital improvements to their corporate offices in Richmond Heights, so hopefully they keep their HQ here. 

 

Crain's write-up also:

https://www.crainscleveland.com/transportation/aviation-firm-flexjet-sets-plan-become-public-company

Yea,

 

They're currently building their new HQ at the County Airport in Richomd Hts as we speak!

1 hour ago, Dougal said:

Nice tuck-in acquisition by Lincoln Electric.  It gets LECO another 25% toward their goal of $1 billion in sales from automation euipment.

 

None of the Cleveland media has covered it.  😒

 

Edit:  An hour later, Crains published the story.

 

https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2022/10/14/2534564/0/en/Lincoln-Electric-Signs-Definitive-Agreement-to-Acquire-Fori-Automation-Inc.html

 

Almost time for a new Headquarters Tower in Downtown??? 😁  Cliffs, Rocket Mortgage and Lincoln Electric all to go along with the new Sherwin Williams tower.... is this a dream, or a future possibility? 

 

(adding@YABO713and  @KJP for thoughts)